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Frostthehero
2014-08-28, 03:29 PM
Just wondering, is there a way to create a magical beast character without a level adjustment or extra hit dice (as in, a magical beast who will start at level 1 when everyone else is level 1), and without an intelligence penalty?

Psyren
2014-08-28, 04:02 PM
Totemist! It's basically the "build your own magical beast" class.

Failing that you can be a druid with Magical Beast Shape from CDiv.

Khatoblepas
2014-08-28, 04:11 PM
The Beguiler (Shining South) is a Small Magical Beast, and also one of my favorite races. It's LA+0, too! They look like this:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/Celestialdragon100/84366.jpg

(Though, it does say LA+0 (cohort)... but I don't think anyone would mind.)

Spindrift
2014-08-28, 04:20 PM
The Beguiler (Shining South) is a Small Magical Beast, and also one of my favorite races. It's LA+0, too! They look like this:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/Celestialdragon100/84366.jpg

(Though, it does say LA+0 (cohort)... but I don't think anyone would mind.)

Don't they get continuous true seeing as a racial ability? In my experience quite a few people think they're not quite balanced as a player race and will be glad to point to the cohort listing as a reason to not allow them. It'll depend on how permissive your DM is.

Thurbane
2014-08-28, 05:16 PM
Strangely enough, LA + X (Cohort) isn't very clearly spelled out by RAW that it's not suitable for players, unless I've missed something obvious.

Another oddity: The Krenshar has a flat LA +2, not LA +2 (Cohort) i.e. the designers intended (?) it as a player race. With ECL 4 before class levels, though, it's not suitable for the OP.

Psyren
2014-08-28, 07:39 PM
Strangely enough, LA + X (Cohort) isn't very clearly spelled out by RAW that it's not suitable for players, unless I've missed something obvious.

Here is the relevant passage:


Some creatures’ level adjustment entries include the word
“(cohort).” Although these creatures may be problematic as PCs,
they make good companions for a character who has taken the
Leadership feat. Some other creatures aren’t intended for use as
PCs or cohorts but can become companions through the use of
the Improved Familiar feat. In these cases, the level adjustment
entry is a dash followed by the words “(Improved Familiar).”

So you are not outright forbidden, but the DM is warned that you may be "problematic."

Mithril Leaf
2014-08-28, 09:00 PM
So you are not outright forbidden, but the DM is warned that you may be "problematic."

Isn't the DM also warned somewhere that playing as an orc may be problematic as well?

Bronk
2014-08-28, 09:20 PM
Just wondering, is there a way to create a magical beast character without a level adjustment or extra hit dice (as in, a magical beast who will start at level 1 when everyone else is level 1), and without an intelligence penalty?

Well, all the monster classes from savage species allow you to play as a monster from level one. The book lists at least the aranea and the griffon for magical beast type, but there might be more online somewhere.

WhamBamSam
2014-08-28, 09:30 PM
The Beguiler (Shining South) is a Small Magical Beast, and also one of my favorite races. It's LA+0, too! They look like this:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/Celestialdragon100/84366.jpg

(Though, it does say LA+0 (cohort)... but I don't think anyone would mind.)To be fair, between its weird typing and stat adjustments, Beguilers are closer to Dragonwrought Kobolds and Anthropomorphic Bats than they are to Humans if they're allowed at LA+0.

That said, there are playable Magical Beasts even if your DM doesn't accept the cohort LA for a Beguiler or Blink dog, albeit less attractive ones. The Abrian (Fiend Folio) isn't too bad for its 2 RHD/1 LA, and you can apply the Ti-Khana template (also Fiend Folio) to "any lizard, dinosaur, snake, or any animal or magical beast that is reptillian" which should include the LA+0 Anthropomorphic Lizard for the magical beast type and a few other things at the price of +4 LA.

EDIT: Neither is LA+0, and the Abrian has a -4 to Int, so maybe not what you're looking for. Ask your DM about the Beguiler. If you're allowed to play one, you should take that opportunity.

Phelix-Mu
2014-08-28, 10:00 PM
If you could get a DM to make up a savage progression for urskans, that would work.

On the other hand, it's really LA that is problematic. All in all, magical beast HD aren't that terrible (unless you are a caster, since they don't grant CL).

QuickLyRaiNbow
2014-08-28, 10:04 PM
According to the master +0 Race List, Beguiler is it.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2014-08-28, 10:05 PM
AFB at the moment, but would an Awakened animal of some type work?

Phelix-Mu
2014-08-28, 10:10 PM
If it's a 1HD animal, maybe, assuming the DM lets you trade the animal HD for the class HD.

Awakened animals are rather hilariously underpowered. Also, there are class eligibility issues that some of the less humanoid ones run into.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2014-08-28, 10:13 PM
From the d20 SRD: Celestial Monkey. Tiny size, magical beast (extraplanar), bite attack, weapon finesse, Smite Evil, some other stuff. It's LA - though, so you'd have to ask the DM. It's CR 1/6, and has 1 HD.

Inevitability
2014-08-29, 04:32 AM
An Awakened (through Master of Flies) Hairy Spider would have +0 LA and an intelligence score.

Alternatively (and more cheesy), you can do this:

1. Be any LA +0 race. Be able to cast Persisted Aspect of the Wolf (a way to do this is being a human cleric with Magical Training who than Precocious Apprentices to gain Extended Aspect of the Wolf.
2. Find a druid who is willing to cast Awaken on you.
3. Cast Persisted Extended Aspect of the Wolf on yourself.
4. Let DruidBuddy Awaken you.
5. You are now a magical beast, at +0 LA. Apply negative level cheese to remove your 2 HD.

Psyren
2014-08-29, 05:18 AM
Isn't the DM also warned somewhere that playing as an orc may be problematic as well?

Not that I can see. MM1 even includes an "ORCS AS CHARACTERS" section. Beguilers don't have that, though there are rules to get one as an improved familiar.