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Malexia
2014-08-28, 08:18 PM
I've been working on this world, Telvaria, for a few years now, as I intend it to be the setting for a series of books I want to write. I've spent a while fleshing it out, but there's still a lot left to do. However, I decided that I might as well share what I have with the world, and see what people think. I look forward to suggestions, critiques, feedback, questions, anything really! And I am very new to the forums, so I'm still not very good at using the tags and stuff, sorry.

The world of Telvaria is one that started with the universe, and an event that scientists theorize was like some great big bang as the universe expanded and stars and planets began to form. And then a few billion years later, when life was starting up on the planet, there was another, of a different sort, this time a wave of energy coming from the spot where the universe began. There have been a total of four recorded energy waves, and each caused new things.
The first brought about the Old Ones, eldritch horrors of unspeakable terror and unimaginable power, that warred with each other, mutated the living beings of the world, and caused chaos wherever they went. And with the Old Ones came dark magic, the first magic of the world and the most dangerous. This was the First Era, an era of darkness and destruction.
The second wave brought about the High Divines, proud and noble beings that possessed a new form of magic, divine magic, the magic of creation and miraculous feats. The Divines cast down the Old Ones, imprisoning them deep in the earth and in the dark places of the world, but they could not destroy them, so great was the power of those that had come first. Thus began the Second Era, an era of creation and discovery.
Not long after the defeat of the Old Ones came a third wave, which brought about the Dragon Gods and arcane magic, a wild magic that possessed both the power to destroy, and to create.
Soon, the two sets of deities began experimenting with their powers, creating new things or altering existing things, and soon their gazes fell to the living creatures of the world. First were the elves, dragons, and wolves, and soon after the many other races of Telvaria. For a thousand years there was a tenuous peace, broken only by the occasional scheming of Zevrakkus, or the invasions of Kess, the Fallen Divine who brought to life the drow.
And then came the fourth wave, the last wave that has been seen. It brought about the gods and the demon lords, and signaled a new era; the Third Era, one of adventure, magic, chaos, and conflict. The Dragon Gods descended and became the Draconis Dux, while the High Divines retreated to their hidden realms, watching the world but no longer interfering. It is in this Era that things begin to spiral toward their inevitable conclusion, and in this era that the greatest of stories take place.

-The modern era, or Third Era, is a time when most of the world is connected through oceanic trade routes that take advantage of the setting's abundant magic. The center of the modern world is the City of Stars, a vast city of commerce and magic that has a spell allowing any ship to reach it in a matter of days, regardless of location.
-The current time is the 14th century of the Third Era.
-There are a great many races in the world, and they have intermingled to a sufficient degree that racism is only common in the more backwater locations, or areas with a great history of conflict.
-Due to the active influence of deities in the world, sexism has never truly been an issue. While some may make derogatory comments, they are few, and patriarchies or matriarchies are very rare.
-Adventurers are common, and monsters more so, due to the incredibly high level of magic in the world.
-Aside from the three types of magic listed above, there is also nature magic, and nature spirits, which can't be traced to any single wave as their source.
-There are many continents, and the world of Telvaria is larger than Earth, though magic makes travel easier.
-Though guns and computers do not exist, the average knowledge and technology level of Telvaria is at roughly the same level as Earth, despite the mortal races being only a few thousand years old. This is largely thanks to magic filling the role of technology. Cafes are common, libraries and books are plentiful, people are educated, and they have the same amenities we do without the crippling pollution.

There is a myriad variety of races on Telvaria, and they all have their own unique quirks, but almost all of them are to some extent based off those that came before, such as humans beings variants of elves, dwarves being variants of humans, and gnomes being variants of dwarves, created one after another by Divines attempting to emulate Selenvaria, she who made the elves and wolves. While each race is famous for a particular quality, it is generally understood that they are all people, and thus have differing interests and talents. There are also five categories of race; the Common Races, the Animus Races, the Half Races, the Monstrous Races, and the Dark Races.

The Common Races are the elves and their first imitators, and these races are widely acknowledged as the most common and influential.
-The elves are first of the Common Races, and have several distinct advantages over others. Firstly, they are immortal, and have a natural resistance to disease. Secondly, they have an innate connection to nature, though some forsake that for arcane magic, and others never take advantage of it. Elves are on average taller than most other races, and have a tendency towards fair or light skin, and similar shades of hair. Their eyes are also unique, ranging in color from a simple blue to rich amethyst or feral yellow. Elves are dexterous and clever, with light hearts and great potential. Elves were created by Selenvaria, one of the more powerful Divines.

-Humans were made in the image of elves by Ebronithor, and he decided to give them a different sort of advantage. He made humans to be highly adaptable and diverse, so they could thrive in any environment, rise to any task, or be whatever they wanted to. Humans have a finite lifespan that is short by the standards of some races, but they make up for it with industry, efficiency, and always working, always striving, always reaching higher and higher. Humans have a wide ranged of skin colors, but fairly dull hair and eye colors, such as brown or black. An interesting side effect of human adaptability is that they produce unique offspring when they mate, half-races instead of the race of the mother like other races.

-Dwarves were third of the Common Races, created by Kormnir the Stoneforger, who looked upon the humans and saw potential, but decided that for his purposes they were too weak and thin. Dwarves are short, stout, and hardy, able to endure the worst of climates with natural endurance. Most have a love of wealth and stone, and they make some of the best masons in the world, creating elaborate art, towering fortresses, and hollowing out mountains for their homes. Dwarves are strong, and tough, and many are excellent melee fighters, but it is naturally more difficult for them to call upon arcane magic, and their metalworking tends to alienate them to nature magic, so instead they rely upon divine power, and some have adopted guns as ranged weapons. Dwarves have a tendency towards light skin and dark hair and eyes, though red hair is also common.

-Gnomes came fourth, created by Mechanus to be his tinkers and inventors. He made them similar to dwarves, but smaller and nimbler to better work with delicate machinery. Gnomes are naturally quite clever, and have a unique gift for magic, preferring to harness it not for spectacular feats of magic, but rather to imbue magic into items. Gnomes are generally quite chipper, always excited about the next invention, though as always there are exceptions. Gnomes usually have pale skin and light green eyes, but very colorful hair.

-Halflings are unique among the Common Races, for they originated as the half-breed offspring of humans and dwarves, before there were more races in the world. At a certain point still early in the Second Era, Ebronithor decided to uplift these half-dwarves, being so numerous, and make them a race in full, the halflings. Happy, content, and excellent chefs and travelers, the halflings are not ones for great inventions, magnificent spells, or vast cities. They prefer the simpler things in life, and their lives are often enriched for that. Fair skin, fair hair, and fair eyes are the staple of halfling physiology.

The Animus Races are rarer than the Common Races, but not to a large extent. Their defining feature is that each was uplifted from an animal, rather than being just variants of the elves.
-Felinians were uplifted from felines by Felvicia, as she admired feline grace and agility, but felt they were lacking in intellect. Felinians are quick and nimble, and many enjoy the freedom of the wilds away from civilization, though there are several major exceptions. The felinians are often lighthearted and enjoy humor. They are similar to elves in shape, like most races, but covered in fur and with cat ears, both of which have coloration that can vary from that of common housecats to fierce and noble jungle cats. And of course, cat eyes.
-Vulpinines were uplifted soon after the felinians, from foxes and also be Felvicia. Vulpinines are still nimble like felinians, but with more of an emphasis on wiliness and cleverness. They have a reputation for being tricksters and often thieves, but are usually treated well by their sister race, the felinians. Like felinians, they are similar to elves but with distinct fox characteristics.
-Avines were uplifted from various different birds by Rakket, who wanted to create a colorful and unique race unlike others. Avines are said to have the wisdom of owls, the scavenging of magpies, and the enigmatic traits of ravens. They are perhaps the least elven of the Animus Races, having beaks, colorful plumage all over their bodies, and talon-like hands.
-Geckenites were uplifted by Vaikarus from lizards. Designed to survive in the harsh deserts that had been left alone by the other races, geckenites are used to great heat, and adept at making civilizations in that climate. Geckenites are not known for much, aside from perhaps a certain endurance. They usually have skin in shades of green, with clawed hands and feet, and reptilian faces.
-Ratfolken were the last to be uplifted, formed from rats by Zevrakkus the Dark Experimenter, who sought to create a race of servants and spies. While many were experts at thievery and stealth, it was not true of all, and eventually Zevrakkus grew tired of them, casting them off and letting them settle on Telvaria. Ratfolken are clever, swift, and sneaky, and have short gray fur and rat noses, as well as beady eyes.

The Half-Races of Telvaria are the progeny of humans and other races, though it has been discovered that not all races can create hybrids with humans.
-Half-elves, or telrosi, inherit ears that can vary from mostly rounded to mostly pointed, but usually somewhere in between. They will generally take their skin and hair color from the human side, with perhaps a bit of lightening.
-Half-orcs, or kenri, inherit sharpened teeth and light green skin, as well as increased strength.
-Half-ogres, or ogrikine, inherit large size, muscles, and pale skin. They tend to have slightly disfigured features, and are conventionally ugly by normal standards, except for a few exceptions.
-Half-demons, or abyssians, are the most variable, as their demonic traits are quite random. Some get red skin, some get tails, some horns, and some get various discolourations or unique aspects.
-Half-dragons, or dragosi, are also unusual. Dragosi will usually inherit most of their looks from the human parent, with a tendency towards dark hair and eyes. Dragosi will also inherit one unique trait from their draconic parent, such as increased physical, mental, or magical ability.
-Half-drow, or darklings, inherit almost everything from the drow side. Skin in lighter shades of purple than usual, eyes in a variety of colors, tallness, agility, intellect, and charisma.


-Marriage does not exist, but rather people may enter into matebonds, which can involve any number of people of any gender or race. They are then referred to as 'mates'

I'll be adding sections on the individual details of things soon. Possible revisions of existing information also soon, as it has been pointed out that my technology level is a bit sketchy, so I need to work on that.

8/29/2014: Added Edit History for better record-keeping. Added note to revise.
8/29/2014: Added Common Races.
8/31/2014: Added Animus Races.
9/6/2014: Added Half-Races.

Curbstomp
2014-08-28, 10:49 PM
In a content, educated society with global trade and few inter-racial conflicts what will drive your narrative? Without needs or conflict why would anyone adventure? Are there nation-states? What are they like? In a high-magic setting with high tech why are there still monsters in any quantity? If humanity has demonstrated anything it is that we love to wipe out species that threaten us or are tasty.

Malexia
2014-08-28, 11:40 PM
In a content, educated society with global trade and few inter-racial conflicts what will drive your narrative? Without needs or conflict why would anyone adventure? Are there nation-states? What are they like? In a high-magic setting with high tech why are there still monsters in any quantity? If humanity has demonstrated anything it is that we love to wipe out species that threaten us or are tasty.

Ah, thank you for responding, and I appreciate your feedback! Right, I should first address that perhaps my initial overview is misleading. Society as a whole is perhaps at a better place than humanity is in regards to equality, but it is not a utopian society. While there are indeed more resources and benefits, there are also more races, more people, and the threats that they face are not the lowly beasts or common humans that we have faced on Earth. Monsters are vicious, savage, powerful, and numerous, and many have magic of their own.

In regards to tech, I will specify that it is not guns or computers, or what we think of when the word 'technology' comes up, but rather things like plumbing and scientific understanding of the world.

And world peace is certainly not existing. Global trade is mostly with nearby continents or the City of Stars, and on the continents themselves, there are many factions with their own plots, plans, and desires. Bigotry is not prevalent, yes, but bigotry is but one reason to go war. Lust for power or wealth, fear of others having that same lust, or simple territorial behavior can instigate many conflicts, and there are of course those who wish to subjugate others, villains with power of their own that desire more. As for why people adventure, it varies. Some want gold without having to answer to authority or work long hours. Some want to see the world. Some want to have fun. Some are blood knights, lusting for battle. And some are forced into it by circumstance.

There are nations of all types. City-states, empires, kingdoms, tribal territory, and warring clans. After I post some information on the races and classes I'll post one of the continents I've worked on, either Astania (where the first few books will be) or Srakairn.

Curbstomp
2014-08-29, 04:39 AM
Okay, so more political intrigue and fighting for resources that it initially appeared. Cool.

Where can character's adventure? Are there vast tracts of wilderness and if so why? If civilizations have a good understanding of the world and need resources how have wild/untamed areas survived into the present era? A barrier? Magical protection? Druid hippies? You get the point of my question I think.

jqavins
2014-08-29, 12:08 PM
I'm having trouble with the tech level and level of scientific knowledge. You've singled out guns and computers (OK, "doubled out"?) as not existing, but are vague about what does; "things like plumbing and scientific understanding of the world" covers a huge range of possibilities. Plumbing could be anything from clay pipes in the homes of the rich that each have their own sisterns to modern water distribution and sanitation. Scientific knowledge could be anything from "Fire spreads from burning wood to fresh fuel and plants grow where the seeds fall" on up.

I'd like to have a better sense of the science and tech level in general, and there's another reason I'm making a point of this: to make another point. If the people of Telvaria are at all like the people of Earth, they are curious and inventive. Invention has many mothers and necessity is only one of them. If the scientific knowledge has included even rudimentary chemistry and metalurgy for more than a few centuries, there will be guns.

The (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gunpowder) invention of gunpowder is usually attributed to Chinese alchemy (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Chinese_alchemy), and is popularly listed as one of the "Four Great Inventions (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Four_Great_Inventions)" of China. The invention was made perhaps as early as during the Tang Dynasty (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Tang_Dynasty) (9th century), but certainly by the Song Dynasty (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Song_Dynasty) (11th century). Knowledge of gunpowder spread throughout the Old World (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Old_World) as a result of the Mongol conquests (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Mongol_conquests) of the 13th century. It was employed in warfare to some effect from at least the 14th century, although the development of effective artillery (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Artillery) took place during the 15th century, and firearms (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Firearms) came to dominate Early Modern warfare (http://www.giantitp.com/wiki/Early_Modern_warfare) in Europe by the 17th century.
So, five century tops from the invention of gunpowder to its use in warfare here on Earth. Your general description seems to indicate that much of Telvaria is more prosperous and advanced than most of Earth from the 9th to 14th centuries C.E., so curious, inventive people would likely have greater liesure to develope science, and the technologies that inevitably follow. By the 14th century of the Third Era, to rule out guns specifically seems arbitrary )unless the science and tech level is lower than I get the feeling you're trying to convey.) Why the obsession with guns? Bacause arbitrary choices like that can force an author into other choices she may not want, or into situations that just don't seem to make sense, like "If they have fireworks and they cast large bells, why the heck are they not using cannon to take down those pesky dragons?"

OK, next point. Is religion among the resons for conflicts? Religion is always good for a nice genocide or two.

Malexia
2014-08-29, 01:16 PM
Okay, so more political intrigue and fighting for resources that it initially appeared. Cool.

Where can character's adventure? Are there vast tracts of wilderness and if so why? If civilizations have a good understanding of the world and need resources how have wild/untamed areas survived into the present era? A barrier? Magical protection? Druid hippies? You get the point of my question I think.

An excellent point, and something I hadn't considered properly. I suppose wilderness would usually be left because it was still too dangerous, or hostile. Some are indeed protected, such as the large island of Ornarian, a famous haven for druids and nature spirits. Some, like the Thornleaf Expanse, has civilizations dotted about, but is in other areas scarred by old blights of undeath, and in others is protected by druid covens. The Expanse is worked on though, supplying number to the other regions in large quantity. Some areas, like the Northern Peninsula of Srakairn, have remained untouched because it has taken so long for the inhabitants of the continent to even get close to them.

As for adventure, that is fairly universal, and varied. Some adventurers stick to political conflicts or fights with gangs of thugs in the cities of the world, while other search out ancient dungeons that have not yet fallen. Some fight monsters, or aid in wars against enemy nations. Monsters of this world are actively supported by many dark entities, and as such are able to maintain presences even in some of the most civilized regions of the world, though the City of Stars is happily-free of conflict.


Why the obsession with guns? Bacause arbitrary choices like that can force an author into other choices she may not want, or into situations that just don't seem to make sense, like "If they have fireworks and they cast large bells, why the heck are they not using cannon to take down those pesky dragons?"

Thank you for raising this point. Looking at it properly, I am forced to realize that I have indeed displayed a bit of an obsession with these specific sorts of tech, and I think the reason is that I do not wish for conventional medieval weaponry like swords, bows, axes, etcetera to be rendered useless, as I quite enjoy their aesthetic and find guns in comparison quite crude, as oxymoronic as that sounds. I have though considered such things as cannons, cannonballs, magic cannons, mana bombs, and so on. I think that your pointing out of such an obvious flaw does require me to reappraise the technology of my world. In some areas that have focused on progress, namely the drow under their ambitious taskmistress, there are substitutes for such modern things as cell phones, via magic instead of technology. But perhaps I need not limit these things so... I am also a fan of steampunk, and tinkers, a class on Telvaria, are largely responsible for creating incredible technological innovations.

To shorten all that down, you raise a good point and I think I will change things a bit so that gunpowder does exist, grenades, explosives, so on, but guns themselves have not received the attention they did in our world, so that at most they have revolvers and so on? It requires further thought, and I would happily take any suggestions on how to deal with this 'balance and aesthetic versus logical sense' issue.


I'd like to have a better sense of the science and tech level in general

Colleges exist, for magic, art, science, mathematics, history, etcetera. Computers do not exist (I really am mentioning that too often I think) but there are magical systems that can store information, perform calculations, and access databases. Sanitation and hygiene are at modern levels, using magic to make the waste disposal system much more efficient and tasteful. Landfills do not exist. Jeans do exist. Fashion is fickle, and clothes of good quality are widely available. Public education is common in many places but not all, and if you happen to live in a farming village or more reclusive area of a nation, your best chance is hoping someone in your village went to school so they can teach you. Libraries are common and books are easy to mass produce through simple automated copy spells. Basic concepts of chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, and etcetera are understood, though they are less common in public schools than in private schools. There is a principle of science and magic that is generally understood; Reality is governed by the laws of science unless acted upon by a force of magic.


Is religion among the reasons for conflicts?

A complicated question. Generally, no, because the gods agree that warring with each other would only be disastrous for everyone, and so they encourage their followers to be respectful of other religions. The gods, I should add, are much more worldly than usual pantheons. They regularly speak with clerics that ask, give advice and aid, and communicate their desires in a way that won't lead to people reinterpreting it and starting crusades. But the gods are not all 'good'. Many have plots and plans, and opposing moralities, and conflict is inevitable despite all the countermeasures. This is usually found in holy orders or religious factions, and often is more out of personal desires than obedience to their god, but some gods have ordered dubious actions. Additionally, I will state that the 'good' deities of this world have their own plots and plans, most of which will end up being addressed in my book series as conflicts the heroes are involved in.

And of course, there are the more malicious deities, such as the demon lords or the Old Ones, who stir up chaos and hatred, religion often being a route to that end.

jqavins
2014-08-29, 04:32 PM
Thank you for raising this point. Looking at it properly, I am forced to realize that I have indeed displayed a bit of an obsession with these specific sorts of tech...
Actually, I meant my obsession. Like you might ask me "Why the obsession with guns?"


I have though considered such things as cannons, cannonballs, magic cannons, mana bombs, and so on. I think that your pointing out of such an obvious flaw does require me to reappraise the technology of my world. In some areas that have focused on progress, namely the drow under their ambitious taskmistress, there are substitutes for such modern things as cell phones, via magic instead of technology. But perhaps I need not limit these things so... I am also a fan of steampunk, and tinkers, a class on Telvaria, are largely responsible for creating incredible technological innovations.

To shorten all that down, you raise a good point and I think I will change things a bit so that gunpowder does exist, grenades, explosives, so on, but guns themselves have not received the attention they did in our world, so that at most they have revolvers and so on? It requires further thought, and I would happily take any suggestions on how to deal with this 'balance and aesthetic versus logical sense' issue.
Consider the following a mere suggestion of a starting point and do continue to puzzle it out on your own. I'm gathering that magic is ubiquitous and cheap, much more than I had previously supposed. So if there's a magic counterpart to a gun (e.g. a wand of Magic Missiles just for the sake of discussion) would such a thing, including ample recharging, be readily available and affordable to the average citizen? And bigger, badder versions likewise available and affordable to governments large and small? If so, then there is little need for guns. Yes, I myself said that necessity is only one of invention's mothers, so how about this? Guns have been invented, but are mere curiosities. They're less effective and less reliable than the available magic (look at Earth's very early firearms) so nobody except tech nerds and collectors of oddities wants them. The scientific ability exists to improve the technology; if ever there a reason for it then a superior firearms technology could and would appear very quickly. It could happen any time now, but it hasn't happened yet.

Another new topic. Twice you've mentioned classes. Why? Classes are important in RPGs (well, those RPGs that use them; not all do) but why do you need them in a setting for writing books? The purpose of classes in an RGP is to ensure balance and fairness; they keep characters under control. As an author controlling all the characters - their abilities, habits, actions, etc. - you don't need the characters to be controlled by rules.

Malexia
2014-08-29, 05:35 PM
Consider the following a mere suggestion of a starting point and do continue to puzzle it out on your own. I'm gathering that magic is ubiquitous and cheap, much more than I had previously supposed. So if there's a magic counterpart to a gun (e.g. a wand of Magic Missiles just for the sake of discussion) would such a thing, including ample recharging, be readily available and affordable to the average citizen? And bigger, badder versions likewise available and affordable to governments large and small? If so, then there is little need for guns. Yes, I myself said that necessity is only one of invention's mothers, so how about this? Guns have been invented, but are mere curiosities. They're less effective and less reliable than the available magic (look at Earth's very early firearms) so nobody except tech nerds and collectors of oddities wants them. The scientific ability exists to improve the technology; if ever there a reason for it then a superior firearms technology could and would appear very quickly. It could happen any time now, but it hasn't happened yet.

Another new topic. Twice you've mentioned classes. Why? Classes are important in RPGs (well, those RPGs that use them; not all do) but why do you need them in a setting for writing books? The purpose of classes in an RGP is to ensure balance and fairness; they keep characters under control. As an author controlling all the characters - their abilities, habits, actions, etc. - you don't need the characters to be controlled by rules.

Hmm, interesting. Yes, I quite like that idea. I'd already decided magic would be common enough that you could find healing potions or enchanted trinkets in any town for reasonable prices, so this isn't that big a step away from it. It seems like something the Arcane Covenant (that will be when I add factions to the first post) would support, getting readily available magical defenses to the citizenry of the world. Like, a bracelet that has a once or twice per day shield spell, that activates when you're about to be attacked. A wand of stunning, which would cost little magic and be safe for public use. Additionally, you could make a market out of it by offering varieties of item, and the more expensive ones have enchantments on them to passively recharge using energy from the environment, while the cheaper ones require you to manually recharge by paying a small fee at a magic shop.

And yeah, I could definitely see bigger versions. Say, a wealthy empire is known to employ mana bombs for decisive victories against enemies, and their officers have enchanted weapons and armor that give them an edge over any nonmagical opponent. A small kingdom can't afford that, but they can afford wands of stunning (more powerful than civilian versions) for law enforcement and some enchanted bows for their archers.

And thinking more on guns, I am of the impression that guns are of delicate and precise machinery, which would be far easier to foul up than a complex spell on a wand or other magical item. An experienced mage could easily sabotage a gun from afar, or create a shield that repelled the bullets. But this also gives me an idea; if a society relies on magic for that combat edge, someone with access to any kind of antimagic and a gun would suddenly become the most dangerous person on the field. Interesting possibilities.

On classes, I should mention that I enjoy RPGs, and modeled Telvaria after one. I actually intend on at some point attempting to make a tabletop RPG system for Telvaria, though now the lore is more important. Additionally, having distinct classes helps organization. And I like the idea of things being a bit... orderly. Mages are trained a certain way, there are different names for different things, and classes are an easy way to establish basic differences between characters with only a single word. I could just have magic and have some people use it and make it all up as I go along, but having some concrete rules for classes helps establish continuity.

Malexia
2014-09-04, 12:50 PM
So, I'll try and update the main post soon, but for now I do have some questions.

1. What would be a better term for the monstrous races, that defines them as often ostracized but not universally evil?
2. What kinds of aquatic races would fit in on this world? One of the Dark Races is the Naga, and they create slave empires, so I need a few sea-dwelling slave races. Elemental-based, fish-based, are there any races like this in D&D?

jqavins
2014-09-04, 01:57 PM
So, I'll try and update the main post soon, but for now I do have some questions.

1. What would be a better term for the monstrous races, that defines them as often ostracized but not universally evil?
How about calling them "barbarians"? The readers might initially assume they are human, then when characters refer to their giant teeth, prickly hair, or whatver the readers would think the characters are being racist, then eventually would realize "Hang on, these 'barbarians' actually do have big teeth and prickly hair, 'cause they're orcs!"


2. What kinds of aquatic races would fit in on this world? One of the Dark Races is the Naga, and they create slave empires, so I need a few sea-dwelling slave races. Elemental-based, fish-based, are there any races like this in D&D?
Well, there are mer-folk and aquatic elves. I don't use aquatic creatures much, so that's all I got, but I'm sure there are more.

brian 333
2014-09-04, 02:47 PM
Guns, and even crossbows, were far too expensive for the average person to own as far back as the 17th century, and increasingly more expensive before that. Forging a metal tube by hand is a very difficult thing to do. It was not until the advent of large scale manufacturing that these items became cheap enough for the common folk to own.

If mass production has not been invented, (it was a late 18th century development in our world, and yours is at about the 14th,) then each gun would have to be individually fashioned. Arming a group of soldiers with guns would be a very expensive proposition, and the guns themselves wouldn't be very accurate or reliable, and certainly not something you could repair in the field if damaged.

And again, you have magic, with a history of its development as a technology. Rome had sewers and medicine and many other modern conveniences as far back as, well, the founding of Rome. Imagine Rome with a functional magical technology that allowed investigations into the nature of the world, the scrying of distant lands, more accurate examination of the stars, etc. Before 200BC Eratosthenes had made many scientific discoveries about the size and shape of the world and it's relationship to the sun and moon. Imagine if he had had a means of scrying to determine the shape of the continents and could create maps of the seas showing exactly where to find the Americas? Columbus would have been upstaged 1500 years early!

The idea that magic is a technology allows the replacement of almost all technical achievements with magical ones. Who needs a crane to lift that large rock when I have telekinesis? So cranes weren't needed and thus weren't invented. And so all the crane-dependent technologies, like suspension bridges and skyscrapers, weren't invented either. Magical analogues could be a bridge of light, where one literally walks across a magical rainbow to get across the river, or great towers raised by the work of enslaved earth elementals. And back to gunpowder: who needs it when for a handfull of bat guanno I can generate a fireball? Mining is less technological, but then I have stone shape spells to reinforce my tunnels and dig spells to displace ore.

It is not a case of mechanical and electronic technology being impossible, it's a case of the society relying upon magic as opposed to any other means to solve their problem. There is an old saying: "When you have a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail." Well, the hammer these guys have is magic, and so every problem they have is solved with magic.

What technology they do have they have because it's simpler and/or cheaper than magic. Smithcraft, for example, can be used because forging several hundred spear points and giving them to some unemployed commoners is cheaper than summoning several hundred monsters to fight your wars. Anything complex is done with magic.

In short, if magic works it simply precludes the need for complex mechanical or electronic technologies. There is no need to invent a computer because I can cast a Legend Lore spell spell and get a reliable answer. There is no need to invent anything I cannot do with magic, unless it's cheaper.

Murk
2014-09-05, 04:42 AM
I'm not really sure about all magic in D&D-settings, but I'm pretty sure technology is more durable than most magic. Wands get depleted, spells end, and not everyone is capable of handling magic of their own. Even though it might be cheaper and easier, some (think people on the outskirts of society) might prefer a gun - however crude - to magic, simply because it's easier to use in long situations without contact with the civillized world.
Besides, it's already established some creatures are magical in nature, and will probably have some kind of spell resistance. Technology would be more effective against those.

Having said that, in those cases there's almost nothing that a gun can do that a crossbow can't. It would make guns very strange, luxury products for those who have a strange inclination not to use magic.
Which sounds OK

brian 333
2014-09-05, 08:03 AM
I'm not really sure about all magic in D&D-settings, but I'm pretty sure technology is more durable than most magic. Wands get depleted, spells end, and not everyone is capable of handling magic of their own. Even though it might be cheaper and easier, some (think people on the outskirts of society) might prefer a gun - however crude - to magic, simply because it's easier to use in long situations without contact with the civillized world.
Besides, it's already established some creatures are magical in nature, and will probably have some kind of spell resistance. Technology would be more effective against those.

Having said that, in those cases there's almost nothing that a gun can do that a crossbow can't. It would make guns very strange, luxury products for those who have a strange inclination not to use magic.
Which sounds OK

Gunpowder gets wet, lead for bullets runs short, and the use of firearms before modern times was restricted to a few trained individuals.

Some creatures have thick hides or are so massive that shooting them will only annoy them. Think about elephants which until modern high powered rifles were virtually immune to guns.

A gun is more dependent upon an industrial base than any other weapon. Not only does it require smiths skilled enough to make complex parts such as springs to activate the hammer, (or match or wheel, or whatever mechanism fires your gun,) but it requires animal husbandry and mining to acquire the raw materials for gunpowder and chemists to mix it on a scale large enough for it to be something more than a novelty.

A gun is a product of a civilized world, and cannot exist without the civilization, as opposed to a longbow or even a crossbow, which can be individually manufactured by the user. A gun-wielder out of contact with civilization must conserve ammo and keep his powder dry or be reduced to using his knife.

An effective wand of magic missiles would be better than a gun in almost any circumstance, because the wand won't missfire, (or miss if you are using AD&D rules.) We tend to forget that we use technology because magic does not work in our world, and for no other reason. Our ancestors tried magic first, before science and technology. If it had worked for them, they would never have had the need to design many of the things we take for granted, like printing presses or cranes or ships that don't fly.

jqavins
2014-09-05, 08:35 AM
We tend to forget that we use technology because magic does not work in our world, and for no other reason.
No other reason? That's rather naive. It may take a medium level spell to do a lifting job that can be accomplished by a rock and a hefty stick, or a higher level spell (or the same medium level spell from a high level caster) for a lift that could be done with a block and tackle. Why use mages to cut trees for lumber when you can do it with axes, saws, and grunt workers?

The cheaper and more abundant magic is, the more jobs there are for which it is the practical choice. So how abundant and how cheap is it in Telvaria? Cheap enough that technological solutions are never more practical than magical ones? That seems extremely unlikely. Remember, the author has told us that "Basic concepts of chemistry, physics, biology, psychology, and etcetera [sic] are understood..." That implies the means, magical or technological, to carry out scientific investigations. Therefore, the means to build complex mechanisms exists. The stage is set for development of firearms given even the slightest advantage in having them in even one type of circumstance. And the stage is also set for very rapidly advancing through the early stages of their development that took centuries on Earth, again if there is any advantage at all to doing so.

We are also told "There is a principle of science and magic that is generally understood; Reality is governed by the laws of science unless acted upon by a force of magic." So it is understood that science and magic each has its place. To suppose that applied magic is universally better (or perceived as such) than applied science, i.e. technology, is groundless.

Malexia
2014-09-05, 01:35 PM
No other reason? That's rather naive. It may take a medium level spell to do a lifting job that can be accomplished by a rock and a hefty stick, or a higher level spell (or the same medium level spell from a high level caster) for a lift that could be done with a block and tackle. Why use mages to cut trees for lumber when you can do it with axes, saws, and grunt workers?

The cheaper and more abundant magic is, the more jobs there are for which it is the practical choice. So how abundant and how cheap is it in Telvaria?

We are also told "There is a principle of science and magic that is generally understood; Reality is governed by the laws of science unless acted upon by a force of magic." So it is understood that science and magic each has its place. To suppose that applied magic is universally better (or perceived as such) than applied science, i.e. technology, is groundless.

This is fairly accurate. The important thing here I think is the different varieties of magic available widely. Artifice is easy, so wands can be made and items enchanted with greater ease than traditional D&D, but the more powerful a spell the less likely you'll find an easy way to use it. It must be remembered that though magic is more common, the ratio of mages to non-mages is still very skewed in favor of the nonmagical. Peasants are easier to employ as miners, and those who can use magic to do it, such as the shaping of stone, would be specialists called in for the more profitable ventures, such as rich gold mines or gem mines where the precise extraction of resources is required.

Technology and magic both have places. Technological innovations can create wonderful things, and ones that use natural resources instead of magical ones. And to address a point; the people of Telvaria tried both, and succeeded in both. Curiosity and ability led to pursuit of both science and magic. Scientific understanding, magical understanding, and creations through both.

Malexia
2014-09-08, 10:40 PM
Still trying to figure out more specifics and stuff and posting, but for now have an infodump.

The Dark Races are those made through dark magic, and are the 'Always Chaotic Evil' races. There are VERY FEW exceptions, due to the very nature of their societies and nature. Generally, it is safe to say that if you see one of these, you should run.

-The drow were crafted in a dark mockery of the elves, leading to their common designation of 'dark elves'. They were created by Kess, the Fallen Divine, one of the High Divines who used dark magic to pervert elves and create a new, glorious, powerful race, a race given increased intellect, power, agility, prowess, and support. Drow have skin colors in shades of purple, and drow eyes can be any color. They have low levels of nightvision, but do not have the innate powers of drow in Forgotten Realms. The skill of the drow lies in how easily they can become powerful, and their unique society. Kess has given them boons, and encouraged their society into a system that puts nobles above all others, encourages slavery and depravity, and seeks out any innovation that can improve the society. The drow are the most magically and technologically advanced race on Telvaria, possessing the magical equivalent of cell phones in addition to vast libraries of hidden knowledge. The drow have gone to war with the surface world before, but their invasions were stopped by the combined might of the other Divines, and the mortal races. The drow still plot though, from the Depths, an entire cavern world in a pocket dimension created by Kess. From the Depths the drow can emerge anywhere in Telvaria, and always steal away without being chased.

-Trolls were created by the Old Ones to be their servants and soldiers, and above all, adaptable. Trolls are naturally tall, with body types ranging from lanky to bulky, and they have regenerative abilities that allow them to recover from almost any non-lethal damage. Trolls are skilled at manipulating magic, and instinctive warriors. Wherever trolls go they adapt to the terrain and magic, some adopting the power of the storm, some adopting arcana, and some becoming desert nomads. Trolls have made vast empires, great clans, and every form of civilization imaginable, and they are still around today, an omnipresent reminder that the Old Ones are still alive, and still watching. Coloration and features vary by troll type.

-Naga were created by Oszulon, an Old One that ruled the dark seas and the hidden places. The naga have the lower bodies of serpents, slithering along the ground, as well as scales and blue skin on their 'human' upper halves. Naga are able to survive in water or on land, and have constructed vast slave empires with dark magic and superior numbers. They have mostly remained hidden from the world at large, waiting for the time to strike, the time to bring their dark god back. The naga also worship the children of Oszulon, mighty horrors of the sea.