Magical Training (the feat) and UMD

[Yogibear41]

How does Magical Training interact with Use Magic Device, and whether or not I need it. Since I can cast 0 level wizard/sorcerer spells does that mean I no longer need to make UMD checks for wands associated with those lists? And since I have a caster level of 1, does that mean when using scrolls I can simply make a level check as if I was a 1st level wizard/sorcerer? Or does the need for a UMD check remain the same with our without the feat in question?

[sideswipe]

hmmm.... the whole list of 0 levels is available to you... so i would think that wands are fine.

yeh it would be difficult but scrolls would equally work, and would probably self limit you as your caster level would be forever low and you would not risk it with a CL17+ item, bye bye all my monies.

it does state that you always have a minimum caster level of 1. so you could take practised spellcaster for a few low-mid level scrolls.

so whereas i could debate the wands, the scrolls seem to work fine. though i would defiantly not allow staffs of any kind.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The feat doesn't make any mention of counting as a wizard/sorcerer for the purposes of item usage. Since it specifies that "you are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast" the implication is that for all other purposes, you are not.
Even if you cast the spells "as a wizard" you can't scribe the other cantrips in your spellbook and cast them. You're limited to the 3 spells you picked out when you took the feat.

So you still need UMD to activate any spell trigger/completion item that isn't using one of the spells you learned. You can use Eternal Wands freely though since they only need the ability to cast arcane spells.

[sideswipe]

The feat doesn't make any mention of counting as a wizard/sorcerer for the purposes of item usage. Since it specifies that "you are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast" the implication is that for all other purposes, you are not.
Even if you cast the spells "as a wizard" you can't scribe the other cantrips in your spellbook and cast them. You're limited to the 3 spells you picked out when you took the feat.

So you still need UMD to activate any spell trigger/completion item that isn't using one of the spells you learned. You can use Eternal Wands freely though since they only need the ability to cast arcane spells.

nowhere does it say you cannot scribe more. it says you START with a spellbook and three 0 level spells. and that you prepare the same way a wizard does.
it does not say you only ever have 3.
plus in the rules on spellbooks, to which you have one, there is rules for adding spells to a spellbook.

you can only ever prepare and cast 0 level spells, but you can actually understand and write any level spell within the book with a spellcraft check.

unless you can find me the rules that says only wizards can write spells into a spellbook then the feat allows this as it grants you a spellbook. otherwise how would you have written them in the first place?

[Dalebert]

It's not the spellbook that magically imparts the ability to learn new spells. It's a class feature of wizards to potentially be able to know any spell up to the levels they can cast. This feat specifically tells you that you know three, period.

From spellbooks of wizards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard):

At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.

[Yogibear41]

Find it hard to believe that a person, can know how to scribe 3 spells into their spellbook just like a wizard, can memorize and cast those spells just like a wizard, but is unable to repeat the process for any new spells just like a wizard.

[Dalebert]

Find it hard to believe that a person, can know how to scribe 3 spells into their spellbook just like a wizard, can memorize and cast those spells just like a wizard, but is unable to repeat the process for any new spells just like a wizard.

The feat just isn't supposed to be that powerful. It doesn't take a massive leap of logic to say that you are more limited than an actual wizard when all you're doing is spending a feat as a non-wizard. The simple explanation is "yes, you can" but if you do start spending the effort to learn more spells, then that's equivalent to training for a level dip. Do you want to sacrifice a level for it and become an actual 1st-level wizard? Then don't put the effort into it. You could apply the same thinking to a lot of feats to try to make them more powerful than a single feat is supposed to allow, e.g. weapon focus: "If I'm trained to fight better with a long sword, then why can't I get the same bonus with a short sword? It's really similar and, if anything, easier to use than a long sword." Because the feat is only supposed to give you +1 with a single weapon. The end. You have to spend another feat if you want it with a short sword as well, or just take a level dip into fighter and get +1 BAB that applies to everything.

Shorter answer: If you want to be "just like a wizard" than become a wizard.