I'm Going on a Europe Trip!

[Silverraptor]

So, my grandmother is taking me and my sister on a month long trip to Europe on a river cruise through all the rivers and canals. We're going to be starting from the black sea in Romania and making our way west, ending in the Rhineland of Germany. My sister and I are pretty excited for we haven't been out of country except a couple trips into Mexico, and we wanted to see what Europe was like. However, we know very little of what to expect and what to do in our travels, so that's why I had the idea of coming on here. I wanted to ask you guys, especially anyone who lives in Europe that either lives or has visited the places were going to visit and offer us some information and advice on what's to come. I'll put down below the map of our trip so as to allow easy viewing of where we'll end up.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/VT_DXA14_MAP_DEC29_MASTE_WEB_03.jpg (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/silverraptor_photo/media/VT_DXA14_MAP_DEC29_MASTE_WEB_03.jpg.html)


Now, we still won't be going on this trip until around mid October, as we're still getting everything together and filling out the forms and requests. That said, when the time comes that I will be going to this trip, I'm going to see about posting the pictures here for you all to see as well. Its going to be a very exciting time!:smallbiggrin:

[S@tanicoaldo]

I'm So jealous right now! >:)

I hope to do that one day. At least go to Prague in the Czech Republic.

[Bulldog Psion]

Looks like a very interesting trip. I hope you have fun! :smallsmile:

[aberratio ictus]

That white point in southern Germany... that isn't Rothenburg ob der Tauber. That's Rottenburg am Neckar. To be honest, Rothenburg is a lot closer to Nürnberg than Rottenburg, so it is most likely the creator just took some liberties with distances and so on. It would be an extreme distance for an excursion.

Where did you get your Route from? Is it official and set in stone? I agree with S@tanicoaldo, if not, you should check out Prague as you are in the vicinity.

[Silverraptor]

That white point in southern Germany... that isn't Rothenburg ob der Tauber. That's Rottenburg am Neckar. To be honest, Rothenburg is a lot closer to Nürnberg than Rottenburg, so it is most likely the creator just took some liberties with distances and so on. It would be an extreme distance for an excursion.

Where did you get your Route from? Is it official and set in stone? I agree with S@tanicoaldo, if not, you should check out Prague as you are in the vicinity.

Yeah, its an official route for the river cruise to follow, so we can't really detour too much.

[Hyena]

I am very tempted to make "FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN" joke, but I won't, because it's a civil place.

I wish you fun and excitement!

[FinnLassie]

Oh wow! :smallbiggrin: What a cruise. I only remember taking a cruise down Rhein, but I can't recall exactly where. It's been over 10 years. But yeah, I'd say that the riversides in at least Germany will be gorgeous :smallsmile:

[Gnomvid]

Of those countries I've only been to Germany a few times (I don't count The Netherlands as I've not ventured out of Schipol) but you should definitely go up the tower in the Kölner Dom (Cologne Cathedral) it's a bit of a climb but a wonderful view of Köln (Cologne) and the Kölner Dom is quite a piece of Architecture in itself and hard to miss when in Köln.
I'd also have some proper Bratwurst when in Germany, either way I'm sure you'll have a great time cruisin' as you'll get to sample quite a few different cultures through that small part of Europe.

[Silverraptor]

Of those countries I've only been to Germany a few times (I don't count The Netherlands as I've not ventured out of Schipol) but you should definitely go up the tower in the Kölner Dom (Cologne Cathedral) it's a bit of a climb but a wonderful view of Köln (Cologne) and the Kölner Dom is quite a piece of Architecture in itself and hard to miss when in Köln.
I'd also have some proper Bratwurst when in Germany, either way I'm sure you'll have a great time cruisin' as you'll get to sample quite a few different cultures through that small part of Europe.

Thanks. I'll definitely keep that in mind when we arrive there.:smallsmile:

[Morph Bark]

That looks like a very interesting trip! I didn't know cruises went upriver, either. Where did you arrange this sort of trip? It's a little odd that Turkey is coloured green on the map, but it doesn't show the trip actually going through Turkey, whereas that is the case with Slovakia.

How long are you staying at each city? Bucharest, Budapest, Vienna and Cologne (feels odd even typing that name in English) all have great historic places to go see and visit, and Nuremberg as well. The extension to Amsterdam can be well worth it too, especially if you can make a stop in Utrecht along the way.

[Silverraptor]

That looks like a very interesting trip! I didn't know cruises went upriver, either. Where did you arrange this sort of trip? It's a little odd that Turkey is coloured green on the map, but it doesn't show the trip actually going through Turkey, whereas that is the case with Slovakia.

How long are you staying at each city? Bucharest, Budapest, Vienna and Cologne (feels odd even typing that name in English) all have great historic places to go see and visit, and Nuremberg as well. The extension to Amsterdam can be well worth it too, especially if you can make a stop in Utrecht along the way.

My grandmother is what arranged the trip, she's just bringing me and my sister along to "Help carry the bags.:smalltongue:" Were probably going to be staying in each city 1 to 2 days at the most as we travel up the rivers and canals.

[GolemsVoice]

I've lived in Passau for quite a while and can recommend you some good stuff if you want, some secret advice, although it's a very small city, so you can see almost anything in one day.

With Nuremburg, Bamberg and Cologne you have a few very cool cities. In Bamberg, be sure to check out downtown, especially the old town hall and "little Venice" along the canals. If you have time and the weather is nice, you can go up the hill and see the old monastery, if it's open. In any case, make sure to visit the cathedral and the old administration (Alte Hofhaltung) a few metres away. If you can, check out the "Sandstrasse", a famous street with pubs and restaurant where my father would enjoy his student life when he was young. Sample the local cusinine, and especially beer or whine, of which there should be a lot of variants in Bavaria.

As for Frankfurt, Cologne and Würzburg, others may be able to tell you more, but in general, check out the town centre, meaning the old part of the town. That's where most of the old, medieval buildings are gathered, and also the local cathedral.

The locals, at least in the popular places, will generally speak English, so you should have no problem getting around. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

[Urist]

I'm actually in Vienna for that time doing a semester abroad! That's super exciting for you, you're going to have a great time. :)

While you're in Vienna, you of course need to go see Stephansdom and Schonbrunn, and perhaps the Kunst Museum if you have time. And of course a Viennesse cafe or two... ;)

[Silverraptor]

Just letting everyone know, I am at the international airport about ready to get on KLM to start my month long European River Cruise Trip! I hope to have internet while there, and if I do, then I will try to post regular updates and possibly pictures for you all here in the playground.:smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

Landed in Amsterdam. On layover for a flight to Bucharest. Pretty tired as its 2:35 am my local time and its about noon here.

[Maelstrom]

So far, you're in luck...the weather is unseasonably warm and nice. Not sure how long it will stay like this, but have a great trip!

[Silverraptor]

Thanks. Just thought I'd update on saying that I'm in Romania and I'll be visiting Dracula's castle in a couple days. A little spotty on internet currently here and there, so I'll make these updates when I can.

[FinnLassie]

Ah, you're in Transylvania? It's lovely there. Though, my only experience from the place is in spring time, so, no idea how it is around autumn.

[Silverraptor]

Just got to the city of Brasov. While better, I'm still pretty tired and out of it. My body had me waking up every 30 minutes last night starting at 3am here because of the time zone changes.

[FinnLassie]

Changing time zone can be a little tough, but you'll get used to it in a couple of nights. Just stay firmly in the local time routine and you'll get there! :smallsmile:

Do you know what your schedule for the next week will be?

[Silverraptor]

Changing time zone can be a little tough, but you'll get used to it in a couple of nights. Just stay firmly in the local time routine and you'll get there! :smallsmile:

Do you know what your schedule for the next week will be?

Well, tomorrow I go the Dracula's castle. Then its a couple more days bussing around Romania before I get on the River Cruise part of the trip.

[GolemsVoice]

The weather in Germany is actually pretty lousy at the moment, although you might be in luck. Any idea what you'll do once you reach Passau? As I said, been a student there for four years.

[Silverraptor]

No idea. However the weather is starting to become lousy in Romania here. Rain is forecasted for the next few days.

[Maelstrom]

Yeah, weather has finally caught up and changed...in a rather drastic fashion

[Silverraptor]

Came back from Vlad the Impailer's Castle, also known as Dracula's castle.:smallamused: It was a little difficult getting around as I'm nearly 6' 3" and this castle was built by people significantly shorter, and before 'standards' were invented, as every arch and doorway and hallway was a different size and shape. It was still pretty cool to look around, but the castle certainly was on the small end. At the most, according to our guide, it was more of a sentry point to look out for possible invading turks as well as being one of the locations Vlad the impailer tortured his Turkish victims as revenge for all their torture techniques they used on him. Interesting enough, Vlad actually never lived in that castle as a ruler, but it was instead his prison when he was a kid growing up under rule of the turks and was in fact his grandfather's castle. Found that interesting.

Also, while out at all the stalls and stands, I found a stand selling small Romanian flags. I decided on the spot to buy it, which was 6 Lei, and to buy similar small flags from each of the countries I'm going to visit and at the end, take a picture of myself with all of them to show my Europe trip. I think its a great idea, don't you think?:smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

Alright, spent the day to leave Transylvania and I'm back in Bucharest for the night. Tomorrow I spend *Another* all day bus ride to the boat and officially start the river boat part of my River Cruise Europe trip.:smalltongue:

[Bulldog Psion]

Alright, spent the day to leave Transylvania and I'm back in Bucharest for the night. Tomorrow I spend *Another* all day bus ride to the boat and officially start the river boat part of my River Cruise Europe trip.:smalltongue:

Well, the river boat part sounds a lot more interesting than the bus part. Hope you have fun! :smallsmile:

The only castle I've ever been to was one in Belarus. Steepest stairs I've ever seen -- I can imagine how fatal it would have been trying to storm them with armored, armed, hostile, athletic people at the top doing their best to kill one.

[Asta Kask]

Came back from Vlad the Impailer's Castle, also known as Dracula's castle.:smallamused: It was a little difficult getting around as I'm nearly 6' 3" and this castle was built by people significantly shorter, and before 'standards' were invented, as every arch and doorway and hallway was a different size and shape. It was still pretty cool to look around, but the castle certainly was on the small end. At the most, according to our guide, it was more of a sentry point to look out for possible invading turks as well as being one of the locations Vlad the impailer tortured his Turkish victims as revenge for all their torture techniques they used on him. Interesting enough, Vlad actually never lived in that castle as a ruler, but it was instead his prison when he was a kid growing up under rule of the turks and was in fact his grandfather's castle. Found that interesting.

You were in Transylvania? But Vlad was the ruler of Wallachia, wasn't he? :smallconfused:

[Bulldog Psion]

You were in Transylvania? But Vlad was the ruler of Wallachia, wasn't he? :smallconfused:

Born in Transylvania, Voivode of Wallachia, I think. Since the post says he was imprisoned in this Transylvanian castle as a kid, and didn't live there as an adult, it may be that there is no geographical confusion involved.

[Silverraptor]

Got onto the river boat. Going to spend the night docked up before leaving tomorrow around noon. Today however, before heading to the boat, I got to tour the People's Palace in Bucharest. Also known as the Romanian Parliament building. I was told that it is the 2nd largest building in the world and my hour and a half long tour allowed me to only see 4% of it.

[Silverraptor]

Well, this is great...

Apparently because the weather is very windy, the Romanian Authorities have shut down the port and forced every ship here to stay at anchor until further notice. So my trip is currently stuck in Constanta while we wait for this weather to pass.

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, this is great...

Apparently because the weather is very windy, the Romanian Authorities have shut down the port and forced every ship here to stay at anchor until further notice. So my trip is currently stuck in Constanta while we wait for this weather to pass.

Too bad about that. :smallfrown:

It looks like there are a few sights to see in town, though -- Ovid's Square, the Genoese Lighthouse, the Roman mosaics ...

More to see than there would be stranded in my current home town, anyway. :smallwink:

[Silverraptor]

Too bad about that. :smallfrown:

It looks like there are a few sights to see in town, though -- Ovid's Square, the Genoese Lighthouse, the Roman mosaics ...

More to see than there would be stranded in my current home town, anyway. :smallwink:

Actually, I already saw all that today. They had us do a tour in the morning, expecting us to leave at noon before the Romanian Coast Guard shut the port down. We're still stuck in port unable to leave.

[GolemsVoice]

So your boat is stuck in Romania because of a thunderstorm? Better sleep lightly, ans keep watch for the children of the night.

[Silverraptor]

So, after a 6 hour bus ride plus a 3 hour stay at a museum in Bulgaria, we are finally on the move.:smallcool:

[Bulldog Psion]

So, after a 6 hour bus ride plus a 3 hour stay at a museum in Bulgaria, we are finally on the move.:smallcool:

Excellent -- hope you have fun! :smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

Going to pass through the 2 Iron gates tomorrow!:smallsmile:

[CoffeeIncluded]

What exactly are the 2 iron gates? And did you ever manage to go on that river cruise?

[Silverraptor]

What exactly are the 2 iron gates? And did you ever manage to go on that river cruise?

The 2 Iron gates are 2 locks on the Danube river that are suppose to control the water flow down the river. Think panama canal style where they raise or lower the water to allow ships up and down the river. For more information. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Gates):smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

Just thought I'd update and say I'm in Hungary now. So far I have been to Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, and Croatia.

[Silverraptor]

Just set sail away from Mohacs, Hungary. If someone has a map keeping track of my progress (probably not), you can mark on your map.:smalltongue:

[FinnLassie]

What's been your favourite thing so far?

[Silverraptor]

Just being able to see the different cultures has been great. And also the actual evidence of history is still present everywhere. I have seen a number of the soviet "Brick Block" apartments that have nothing to them visually appealing. I have also seen houses bombed out with shrapnel and bullet holes still in the walls of some of them after the Yugoslavia civil war, especially in the fight against Serbia and Croatia. And, I saw the ruins of the mansion of Yugoslovia's dictator Tito that had a huge hole blasted in the middle, but the rest of the mansion almost entirely untouched after it was hit from an American Tomahawk Cruise missile. Sorry if I was ranting a bit, but history, especially very recent history, has held my attention avidly a lot, and it was really nice to see evidence that it really happened instead of just stories in a textbook!:smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

Any foodstuff you like?

[Silverraptor]

Been served a bunch of different authentic food's, kinda hard to keep track of them all. Schnitzel has been pretty good, and its the only name of a dish I can remember off the top of my head.

[Silverraptor]

I am now in the beautiful city of Budapest. Its a fantastic city of what I've seen so far. And I'm going to be here for about 3 days, so I have plenty of time to see more!:smallcool:

[FinnLassie]

I am now in the beautiful city of Budapest. Its a fantastic city of what I've seen so far. And I'm going to be here for about 3 days, so I have plenty of time to see more!:smallcool:

Jelly! When you're finished in Budapest, please do recommend your favourite places. I have always wanted to go.

[Bulldog Psion]

I am now in the beautiful city of Budapest. Its a fantastic city of what I've seen so far. And I'm going to be here for about 3 days, so I have plenty of time to see more!:smallcool:

Let's hope 3 days is enough to see what you want to see. Then again, if it isn't, that leaves something for you enjoy next time you're in the neighborhood. :smallcool:

[HasSIn]

Unfortunately, judging by the map in OP, you won't be stopping in Slovakia. Not even Bratislava. What a shame. While it's not as large or grand a city as Vienna or Budapest, it does have its place in history. It was the capital of Hungarian kingdom for several centuries (1536-1783) and about a dozen kings or queens were crowned there (including Maria Theresa).
And it even has its own flying saucer. :smalltongue: It's actually a restaurant on top of a bridge, but that still counts, right?

[dehro]

So your boat is stuck in Romania because of a thunderstorm? Better sleep lightly, ans keep watch for the children of the night.

this forum needs a like button

[Silverraptor]

I have now arrived in the city of Vienna. This city is definitely competing well with Budapest on most beautiful city so far.:smallbiggrin:

[CoffeeIncluded]

I can't wait to see your pictures.

[Silverraptor]

So, a problem has occurred. Some kind of log or debris has gotten caught and stuck in one of the propellers of the ship. As such, we need to make an emergency dry dock stop where they can go and remove it as well as check the ship for damages. This would require everyone to get off the ship for about 9 hours. Now the company we're with is going to give everyone free 20 Euros and give us complete free time to explore the city of Salzburg.:smallcool: So, its going to be a long, but anticipated day tomorrow.

[Bulldog Psion]

Salzburg, eh? Now there should be some sights to see there. Birthplace of Mozart and all that. Looking at the list of attractions ... 9 hours is probably too short.

[FinnLassie]

Salzburg. Oh gosh. One of my absolute favourite cities on this universe! In Finnish we'd say "onni onnettomuudessa", to get the idea of it, it kinda means "a good thing that occurs from the accident". Go and explore. Although... I think you've already done that. Or wait. You're doing it today? Herp derp. I'm not very good at time when it's the night.

[Silverraptor]

Salzburg. Oh gosh. One of my absolute favourite cities on this universe! In Finnish we'd say "onni onnettomuudessa", to get the idea of it, it kinda means "a good thing that occurs from the accident". Go and explore. Although... I think you've already done that. Or wait. You're doing it today? Herp derp. I'm not very good at time when it's the night.

Don't feel bad. I'm bad at time currently too when its a 9 hour difference in time zones for me.:smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

I just crossed the border into Germany, passing through Passau.

[GolemsVoice]

Welcome to Germany, then. If you get a chance to visit Passau, make sure to visit the cathedral, it's one of the biggest in that style north of the alps. Also, it has Europe's largest organ. There's also the castle with it's cool museum which definitely warrants checking out.

[Silverraptor]

I just went and toured around the city of Nuremburg. While I wasn't able to get into Courtroom 600, I did tour around a documentary memorial museum in the Nuremburg Colosseum which talked exclusively about the Nuremburg trial and the rise and fall of the National Socialist Party.

[Iruka]

I just went and toured around the city of Nuremburg. While I wasn't able to get into Courtroom 600, I did tour around a documentary memorial museum in the Nuremburg Colosseum which talked exclusively about the Nuremburg trial and the rise and fall of the National Socialist Party.

I have to admit that I haven't been to Nürnberg yet, need to do a tour in the near future. Did you also visit the Zeppelin field?

[FinnLassie]

I was quite embarrassed when I learnt what history Nürnberg has AFTER visiting the place. We were there to just see the CUTEST POLAR BEAR BABBY OMG. I mean, worth the visit, but... There would've been so much else to see, and I didn't know about it! I mean, I knew about the history, but for some odd reason I just didn't connect it in my head that this Nürnberg was THAT Nürnberg.

[dehro]

heh.. I've been to Nurenberg every year for about 15 years, on a trade show...and I never managed to go visit the museum.

[GolemsVoice]

You definitely should, it's pretty good. The whole area, the Zeppelingfeld, is pretty impressive, and even as ruins, you can feel how breathtaking the place must have looked when there was a parade going on.

[Silverraptor]

Yeah, they took me to the Zepplingfeld. I got a couple pictures of it as well.

[dehro]

You definitely should, it's pretty good. The whole area, the Zeppelingfeld, is pretty impressive, and even as ruins, you can feel how breathtaking the place must have looked when there was a parade going on.

Oh, I know.. Taxis go right through the grounds, going to the trade show entrance

[Cuthalion]

I was quite embarrassed when I learnt what history Nürnberg has AFTER visiting the place. We were there to just see the CUTEST POLAR BEAR BABBY OMG. I mean, worth the visit, but... There would've been so much else to see, and I didn't know about it! I mean, I knew about the history, but for some odd reason I just didn't connect it in my head that this Nürnberg was THAT Nürnberg.

Aww, polar bears.

I believe I was only there long enough to go to the Germanisches Nationalmuseum. It was a cool museum, though.

From the perspective of a nine year old.

They had swords, and armor and stuff. And cool instruments.

There are extant pictures of me making faces at my brother and sister because they were spending too long in the art section.

[CoffeeIncluded]

That's what Nuremberg is called in Germany/German?

So silver, what would you say is your favoríe place so far?

[Asta Kask]

That's what Nuremberg is called in Germany/German?

Yep. That's the case for quite a few names - Munich is München, Bavaria is Bayern, etc. I think Bratislawa has three or four other names in other languages.

[FinnLassie]

English language is one of the only languages I know that has changed the form of for example German and Italian place names as drastically as it at least seems to me... Like, sometimes I have no idea what place some people are talking about, and I have to google it, and find out they were talking about Firenze or the like.

[Gwynfrid]

French does that quite a bit too (Londres, Munich, Gênes, Naples, Florence, Vienne, Prague, Cologne, Rome, Moscou, Brême, Venise, Lisbonne, Varsovie, Mayence, Turin, Francfort, Cracovie, Milan...)

[FinnLassie]

French does that quite a bit too (Londres, Munich, Gênes, Naples, Florence, Vienne, Prague, Cologne, Rome, Moscou, Brême, Venise, Lisbonne, Varsovie, Mayence, Turin, Francfort, Cracovie, Milan...)

Well, English being partially fused from French, I don't think I'm that surprised by this new piece of information. :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

Swedish and Finnish - Helsingfors/Helsinki, Åbo/Turku and many many more.

[FinnLassie]

I know that the Finnish language has transformed some capitals to suit the language more (Lontoo, Moskova, Kööpenhamina, Tokio, Berliini, etc), but they're not as extremely different as some of the English forms are.

[CWater]

This is a matter that comes up a lot if you travel in Europe by train, as the destinations in timetables are often not listed by their English names. For example trying to find a train that will take you to Cologne or Copenhagen is very confusing, unless you know to look for Köln and København. ^^

[Silverraptor]

That's what Nuremberg is called in Germany/German?

So silver, what would you say is your favoríe place so far?

Nuremburg was by far the most interesting to me because I'm a huge history buff. But I'd have to say either Budapest or Vienna would be the prettiest city locations I have seen so far.

[Gwynfrid]

Well, English being partially fused from French, I don't think I'm that surprised by this new piece of information. :smalltongue:
That's an interesting way to look at both languages.:smallbiggrin:


I know that the Finnish language has transformed some capitals to suit the language more (Lontoo, Moskova, Kööpenhamina, Tokio, Berliini, etc), but they're not as extremely different as some of the English forms are.
Eye of the beholder, I think. To me, your examples look like big transformations on the names, as strong as any in English or French.


This is a matter that comes up a lot if you travel in Europe by train, as the destinations in timetables are often not listed by their English names. For example trying to find a train that will take you to Cologne or Copenhagen is very confusing, unless you know to look for Köln and København. ^^
Yes. Trains are traditionally more geared towards the local travelers. That's why you see the real names of places in train stations, as opposed to airports that always catered to a global audience requiring English translation. Now, to travel by road, one needs to learn local names as well.

[FinnLassie]

Eye of the beholder, I think. To me, your examples look like big transformations on the names, as strong as any in English or French.

I think it's really a matter of understanding the pronounciation. For example, Lontoo, Berliini, Moskova and Tokio aren't that different at all. Kööpenhamina does sound a little different, but the first part, "Kööpen-" is clearly derived from the original "Køben-". Not that "Copen-" is too far off, but it's still significantly different from the original.

Then... Then there's Florence - Firenze. It stars and ends with the same letter. THAT'S ABOUT IT. WHY IS THERE AN L.

I have to say - the French names look weird, and they most definitely will sound weird. Because French is downright a weird language and no one can change my mind on that. :smalltongue: Not as weird as English, though.

[Eldan]

German has a lot of names for places outside of it. Probably mostly places they conquered at some point, like most of Eastern Europe. But there's some Italian ones, too. Florenz (Firenze) was mentioned for English/French, already, but there's also Mailand (Milano).

And of course some where you really have no idea what they are in more usual terms. Like Siebenbürgen for Transsylvania. Which is of course also called Ardeal in Rumanian and Erdély in Hungarian. Shows you how often some places were conquered or otherwise changed allegiance.

As for Florence/Firenze, the original Latin name is Florentia. So, you could say the Italians are the ones who got it wrong :smalltongue: (The adjective is still "Fiorentina", I think?)

[Gwynfrid]

I think it's really a matter of understanding the pronounciation. For example, Lontoo, Berliini, Moskova and Tokio aren't that different at all. Kööpenhamina does sound a little different, but the first part, "Kööpen-" is clearly derived from the original "Køben-". Not that "Copen-" is too far off, but it's still significantly different from the original.

OK, I get your point better then. Of course it means that Finnish pronunciation is totally strange, but hey, no surprise here :smallamused:


I have to say - the French names look weird, and they most definitely will sound weird. Because French is downright a weird language and no one can change my mind on that. :smalltongue: Not as weird as English, though.

As a native French speaker who had to learn English in the French school system, I couldn't agree with you more on that count. Except maybe French is the weirder of the two by a small margin.


German has a lot of names for places outside of it. Probably mostly places they conquered at some point, like most of Eastern Europe. But there's some Italian ones, too. Florenz (Firenze) was mentioned for English/French, already, but there's also Mailand (Milano).

And of course some where you really have no idea what they are in more usual terms. Like Siebenbürgen for Transsylvania. Which is of course also called Ardeal in Rumanian and Erdély in Hungarian. Shows you how often some places were conquered or otherwise changed allegiance.

As for Florence/Firenze, the original Latin name is Florentia. So, you could say the Italians are the ones who got it wrong :smalltongue: (The adjective is still "Fiorentina", I think?)

Another classic example of a placename that varies a lot between languages is "Germany" (Deutschland, Allemagne, Duitsland, Saksa, Germania, Alemania, Tyskland, Niemcy).

[FinnLassie]

OK, I get your point better then. Of course it means that Finnish pronunciation is totally strange, but hey, no surprise here :smallamused:

As a native French speaker who had to learn English in the French school system, I couldn't agree with you more on that count. Except maybe French is the weirder of the two by a small margin.

Hey, Finnish makes sense! There's only one way to pronounce each letter! :smalltongue:

I think English wins the weird competition with the whole "HEY WE ARE A MIX OF EVERYTHING HURRBLLBLBLLLL". :smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well, that's because English is a mix of everything. :smalltongue:

Speaking of that, has there been a significant language barrier, Silver?

[Silverraptor]

Well, that's because English is a mix of everything. :smalltongue:

Speaking of that, has there been a significant language barrier, Silver?

Not usually. Most people speak enough English that I've met so far that it hasn't been a problem.

[Gwynfrid]

Hey, Finnish makes sense! There's only one way to pronounce each letter! :smalltongue:

Astounding! That's got to be boring, though :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

Hey, Finnish makes sense!

A language with thirteen cases is a language with eleven too many.

[FinnLassie]

Astounding! That's got to be boring, though :smallbiggrin:

Well, you try to pronounce 'yökylässä' or 'hääyöaie' and tell me it's boring. :smallwink:

[Gwynfrid]

A language with thirteen cases is a language with eleven too many.

You meant twelve too many, right?


Well, you try to pronounce 'yökylässä' or 'hääyöaie' and tell me it's boring. :smallwink:

OK, you gave me a hint when you said Lontoo, Berliini, Moskova and Tokio are pronounced much the same way as the originals... Then... OK, I give up. :smalleek:

[Asta Kask]

Nope. Nominative and genitive. Just like Swedish does it. On the other hand, Finnish is dangerously undergendered.

[GolemsVoice]

4 cases, three genders. It makes sense and hits all the important numbers, like 3, 4 and 7. I dare you to deny this fact!

[FinnLassie]

Talking about cases just makes me think of delicious, delicious beer. GolemsVoice's avatar isn't helping much.

[Gwynfrid]

Fully agreed. By the way, beer should be mandatory for any discussion of compared grammar. With enough beer, I could certainly convince anyone that a total of one case is all a language needs, and two genders are only justified so we can marvel on how it's possible to invent words that change gender in the plural.

[veti]

I'm a traditionalist, I like both cases - upper and lower. Some languages (those using Arabic fonts, for instance) get by with just one, and that seems to work for them. But more than two? - unless for purely decorative purposes, like illuminated manuscripts, that seems just gratuitously confusing.

[dehro]

English language is one of the only languages I know that has changed the form of for example German and Italian place names as drastically as it at least seems to me... Like, sometimes I have no idea what place some people are talking about, and I have to google it, and find out they were talking about Firenze or the like.

Londra, Parigi, Svezia, L'aia (Den Haag, but to be fair you probably know that one as the Hague), paesi bassi (literally the low lands), Anversa (antwerpen, though that's from the french Anvers) and I'm sure there are many more ways the Italian language mangles international geography. One of the more funny such transpositions however is a person's name. Specifically that of Giovanni Acuto, one of the most famous mercenary captains of Italian history, who was born John Hawkwood, somewhere in Essex. Acuto sounds somewhat like Hawkwood, but means sharp/acute.

[FinnLassie]

Welp, I'm learning more and more about languages. And how silly they all seem to be in the end. And nah, Den Haag is Haag in Finnish (we don't have anything equivalent to "the" in the language). I didn't know it was The Hague in English... Silly, silly languages!

[Jada Masters]

Wow that is my long time dream, to travel Europe with my family. I guess you're done with your trip and I'm sure you will or did enjoy your trip! More travel to you and your family :)

[GolemsVoice]

Giovanni Acuto also sounds like the most hardcore Assassin's Creed protagonist ever. Not that this Hawkwood fellow was a peaceful man anyway. By the way, the Netherlands seem to get this treatmen in many languages, who all translate "low(lying) lands" in their respective tongue. It's Niederlande in Germany. And I think the French do something akin to the paesi bassi, too.

[factotum]

By the way, the Netherlands seem to get this treatmen in many languages, who all translate "low(lying) lands" in their respective tongue.

In fact, "The Low Countries" in English refers to the Netherlands and Belgium, so it happens in that language too!

[Maelstrom]

Pays-Bas in French (low country)

[Silverraptor]

I am now headed to Frankfurt Germany. So now you can put a mark where I am on your stalking maps.:smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[Eldan]

Welp, I'm learning more and more about languages. And how silly they all seem to be in the end. And nah, Den Haag is Haag in Finnish (we don't have anything equivalent to "the" in the language). I didn't know it was The Hague in English... Silly, silly languages!

As far as I know, it's also Den Haag in Germany. But while "den" is a pronoun in German, it's the wrong one. Der Haag, probably, gramatically correct? Die Haag? Das Haag? I'm really not sure what "Haag" actually means, here. Unless it's like the Swiss word "Hag" and means "Hedge" or "Fence". Probably not, unless it means "fortress" here.

PS: Wiki tells me it's "Der Haag" or "Im Haag" in German, but that's archaic.
PPS: And it does mean the same as Swiss Hag.

[Gwynfrid]

Well, Netherlands in Dutch is Nederland, which means... you guessed it... "low land". So, that treatment of the name is to be expected in every language.

Very few countries have such a descriptive name as far as I know. Only Ecuador and Iceland come to mind.

[CWater]

I am now headed to Frankfurt Germany. So now you can put a mark where I am on your stalking maps.:smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Don't think I've ever been to that particular city. What's it like?

[FinnLassie]

I am now headed to Frankfurt Germany. So now you can put a mark where I am on your stalking maps.:smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Had a lot of frankfurters yet? :smallamused:

[Taet]

We always need to read Mark Twain complaining about The Awful German Language (http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html) when there is languages complaining. :smallbiggrin:


Well, Netherlands in Dutch is Nederland, which means... you guessed it... "low land". So, that treatment of the name is to be expected in every language.

Very few countries have such a descriptive name as far as I know. Only Ecuador and Iceland come to mind.
Central African Republic and Equatorial Guinea. And maybe some translations for Micronesia. :smallsmile:

[Eldan]

Well, Netherlands in Dutch is Nederland, which means... you guessed it... "low land". So, that treatment of the name is to be expected in every language.

Very few countries have such a descriptive name as far as I know. Only Ecuador and Iceland come to mind.

They do if you dig long enough. Switzerland comes from Swiss->Schwyz->Suedan->to burn, meaning a spot cleared by slash-and-burn agriculture. Germany (or so Wiki says) is potentially from a Celtic word for "neighbor" or a word for "loud, noisy" (which fits every German I've ever met :smalltongue: ) while Deutschland is just boring and means "land of the people". France is potentially from a word for "javelin".

Spain is nice. Spania, Hispania (Greek and Latin) from Phoenician, ay-shaphanim, island of hyraxes. Which is a species of small mammal which does not, in fact, occur in Spain.

[Gwynfrid]

They do if you dig long enough. Switzerland comes from Swiss->Schwyz->Suedan->to burn, meaning a spot cleared by slash-and-burn agriculture. Germany (or so Wiki says) is potentially from a Celtic word for "neighbor" or a word for "loud, noisy" (which fits every German I've ever met :smalltongue: ) while Deutschland is just boring and means "land of the people". France is potentially from a word for "javelin".

Spain is nice. Spania, Hispania (Greek and Latin) from Phoenician, ay-shaphanim, island of hyraxes. Which is a species of small mammal which does not, in fact, occur in Spain.

Yes, I'm aware of all that, but that refers to words of the distant past; so it doesn't prompt translations of the present-day names into present-day languages.

And France is the country of the Franks, a Germanic tribe. The word "Frank" itself may have a relation with a Germanic word for javelin, but there are a few other possible interpretations.

Some folks have had a great deal of fun creating maps with the original names of places. It's great fun and worth a look. (http://www.kalimedia.com/Atlas_of_True_Names_Europe.html)

[Kaytara]

Oh wow, hope you're having fun! The Rhineland lanscape is gorgeousss. Frankfurt is a bit too urban for my tastes, but eh, nice too. My parents live nearby but I currently live and study a bit further down south, in the Schwarzwald area. ^^ Have fun with the rest of your trip!

[dehro]

Well, Netherlands in Dutch is Nederland, which means... you guessed it... "low land". So, that treatment of the name is to be expected in every language.

Very few countries have such a descriptive name as far as I know. Only Ecuador and Iceland come to mind.

Iceland and Greenland.. I'm told one is covered in ice, the other is very green...

[GolemsVoice]

I've always thought France was based on frank, a Germanic word meaning "free". There's even the old-fashioned German expression "frank und frei" which means free.

[Silverraptor]

Don't think I've ever been to that particular city. What's it like?

Its very modern. The tour guide today said that, since the entire city was basically leveled in the war, they rebuilt the entire city basing it off of the American model of cities. They said Manhattan was the biggest contribution to how they decided to rebuild Frankfurt.

[Asta Kask]

The Allies leveled a lot of German cities during the war, so many German cities have a very modern layout.

[Maelstrom]

Oh wow, hope you're having fun! The Rhineland lanscape is gorgeousss. Frankfurt is a bit too urban for my tastes, but eh, nice too. My parents live nearby but I currently live and study a bit further down south, in the Schwarzwald area. ^^ Have fun with the rest of your trip!

Love the Schwarzwald area...I make several trips out a year for backpaking and such...my favorite is at the end of August when the wild blueberries are everywhere!

[GolemsVoice]

The same thing happened to a lot of East German cities. Very little was done there, and very little renovated. This meant that a) a lot of old buildings were still standing, albeit in a terrible state, and had not been torn down and replaced with more moden buildings, and b) many cities, at least the downtown part, jumped right from "drab and ruined" to "hyper-modern and fully renewed" because unlike in West German towns, there was little left to just renovate.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Its very modern. The tour guide today said that, since the entire city was basically leveled in the war, they rebuilt the entire city basing it off of the American model of cities. They said Manhattan was the biggest contribution to how they decided to rebuild Frankfurt.

Huh, that's really interesting, that Manhattan was the biggest contribution. I've never been to Frankfurt; have you ever been to Manhattan for comparison? Were there any major German cities that weren't leveled?

[Silverraptor]

I'm not sure. And if I had been to Manhattan, it was when I was really young, so I don't really remember.

[dehro]

Its very modern. The tour guide today said that, since the entire city was basically leveled in the war, they rebuilt the entire city basing it off of the American model of cities. They said Manhattan was the biggest contribution to how they decided to rebuild Frankfurt.

I must pay closer attention.. I've been to both places, but have noticed nothing of the sort autonomously. I shall take a look next time I go through Frankfurt. Are we talking about the skyline? The urban planning or an overabundance of Starbucks?

[Silverraptor]

I must pay closer attention.. I've been to both places, but have noticed nothing of the sort autonomously. I shall take a look next time I go through Frankfurt. Are we talking about the skyline? The urban planning or an overabundance of Starbucks?

All 3. I think the main focus was that this city had lanes that allowed 2 cars to go down them instead of other older towns that barely have room for 1.

[dehro]

All 3. I think the main focus was that this city had lanes that allowed 2 cars to go down them instead of other older towns that barely have room for 1.

Lol.. Not all older European cities are a medieval jumble of dark narrow alleys. Some of them were built along the outlines set by the square roman encampment they started out as.. Some were renovated to allow for big traffic of carriages, barges and suchlike several centuries ago alrdeady. Some even started out with a clear urbanistic plan in mind. But yes, I see your point.. Plenty of ancient European cities do give the impression they were designed for foot traffic only... Or that they weren't designed at all but just happened

[Silverraptor]

Lol.. Not all older European cities are a medieval jumble of dark narrow alleys. Some of them were built along the outlines set by the square roman encampment they started out as.. Some were renovated to allow for big traffic of carriages, barges and suchlike several centuries ago alrdeady. Some even started out with a clear urbanistic plan in mind. But yes, I see your point.. Plenty of ancient European cities do give the impression they were designed for foot traffic only... Or that they weren't designed at all but just happened

I think what was implied was that Frankfort was like those cities that was designed primarily for foot traffic with automobiles and everything having to squeeze through 1 at a time. After it was leveled in the war, the rebuilding process was able to rebuild Frankfort as a modern city that is able to accommodate the cars and other vehicles better. The guide also said Frankfort was one of the first, if not the first, city in Europe that had a built in skyline. I probably just heard it wrong if that's untrue.

Also, now sailing down the Rhine. There is a large hill on both sides of the river and a number of castles that pop up once every 10-20 minutes. And there is a lot of vineyards dotting the landscape as well.

[Bulldog Psion]

Also, now sailing down the Rhine. There is a large hill on both sides of the river and a number of castles that pop up once every 10-20 minutes. And there is a lot of vineyards dotting the landscape as well.

Sounds nice, and a lot like the country between Prague and Karlovy Vary.

Your mention of castles "popping up" reminds me a lot of my reaction to castles when I first saw the genuine article in the Czech countryside many years ago.

They appeared lean, grim, and predatory to me, a somewhat menacing-looking form of architecture. Would you say that's an accurate assessment, or was it simply my overactive imagination at work? :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

Prague is a nice city. Plundered by the Swedish in 1648, among the loot was a very mangy lion which was transported in triumph to Stockholm.

[Silverraptor]

Just arrived in the city of Cologne. It is definitely a beautiful city and the lights make everything look spectacular! My trip is nearly over now, with only Amsterdam being the last city and stop before I head home. After that, I'll work on going through the pictures and posting them all. Internet was pretty bad and it was difficult to post them as the trip went on.

[CWater]

Just arrived in the city of Cologne. It is definitely a beautiful city and the lights make everything look spectacular! My trip is nearly over now, with only Amsterdam being the last city and stop before I head home. After that, I'll work on going through the pictures and posting them all. Internet was pretty bad and it was difficult to post them as the trip went on.

Ah, Cologne. The city where I have stopped to change trains several times, but never properly explored itself. I'll need to do that one of these days. ^^'

[GolemsVoice]

Sounds nice, and a lot like the country between Prague and Karlovy Vary.

Your mention of castles "popping up" reminds me a lot of my reaction to castles when I first saw the genuine article in the Czech countryside many years ago.

They appeared lean, grim, and predatory to me, a somewhat menacing-looking form of architecture. Would you say that's an accurate assessment, or was it simply my overactive imagination at work? :smallbiggrin:

I wouldn't say that's all too far from the truth. Basically, every part of Europe used to violently hate every other part of Europe. Which broke down "nationally", as much as there were nations, regionally, city for city, and village for village. The Rhine, by the way, was heavily contested, and therefore full of forts and forified cities. True story, in the town I live in, about 10 km from the French border, we have a castle with a statue of Jupiter/Zeus on top, who's looking straight in the direction of a French fort on the other side of the Rhine.

[Silverraptor]

I wouldn't say that's all too far from the truth. Basically, every part of Europe used to violently hate every other part of Europe. Which broke down "nationally", as much as there were nations, regionally, city for city, and village for village. The Rhine, by the way, was heavily contested, and therefore full of forts and forified cities. True story, in the town I live in, about 10 km from the French border, we have a castle with a statue of Jupiter/Zeus on top, who's looking straight in the direction of a French fort on the other side of the Rhine.

That bolded part made me laugh out loud and now I have a completely accurate phrase to how to describe middle ages Europe to my History ignorant sister.

Also, are you on the Rhine? Did I just sail past you today and not know it?

[Bulldog Psion]

I wouldn't say that's all too far from the truth. Basically, every part of Europe used to violently hate every other part of Europe. Which broke down "nationally", as much as there were nations, regionally, city for city, and village for village.

Expand that globally, and you pretty much have human history in a nutshell. :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

Check out the cathedral. It's worth it,as is the square...

[Gwynfrid]

That bolded part made me laugh out loud and now I have a completely accurate phrase to how to describe middle ages Europe to my History ignorant sister.

Well, the word hate is a little excessive. There were times of hate, sure, but characterizing the entire history of Europe that way is a big stretch. In the Middle Ages especially, people may have feared attacks from the other side of the river for good reason, but the ordinary person had other things to do than preparing to attack. War decisions were made by the nobles who were vying primarily for power, and most of the fighting was done by people who were in it for money, not for sentiment. Actual hate between nations is a phenomenon that emerged with nationalism, not much more than 2 centuries ago.

[GolemsVoice]

It's not exactly hate, but the collection of feuds, wars, raids and bickering makes for a quite complicated history. However, it is not uncommen for various nobles of the Holy Roman Emperor to throw their lot in with whoever promised them the most reward, even if that meant going against your emperor. And if you look at Germany in the late middle ages and afterwards, it was basically nothing BUT various nobles, jealously guarding what little they had. Let's say that, while they might not actually have hated each other, they were most certainly always trying to kill each other.


Sadly, I'm not on the Rhine directly, but very near it, however, much further south of Cologne. Near Strasbourg.

[Silverraptor]

Arrived in Amsterdam. Was convinced to go on a tour of the Red Light District.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Arrived in Amsterdam. Was convinced to go on a tour of the Red Light District.

Oh, this is going to be entertaining. Are you going to liveblog it? :smalltongue:

[Silverraptor]

Oh, this is going to be entertaining. Are you going to liveblog it? :smalltongue:

Well no, photography wasn't allowed, as the women on display get rather upset if you do. And I can't really describe it except its just windows with women in scantly clad underwear putting them selves on display. That and you have a community living around it in the same area. There is even a large kindergarten set up right in the center of the district, if you can believe it.

[Silverraptor]

Today I toured an art museum and went to Gassan diamond factory in the morning. In the afternoon my sister and I went to tour Anne Frank's house.

[FinnLassie]

How was the Anne Frank house? I've only seen pictures. *jealously waits for answer*

[Silverraptor]

How was the Anne Frank house? I've only seen pictures. *jealously waits for answer*

It was very well done. They converted it into an excellent museum with quotes from Anne's diary posted everywhere with a date so as you went further into the house, you see the dates and times get later and later. When you got to the secret bookcase, you had to step up like a foot and a half or two feet while simultaneously ducking as the top wall was very short. The room they had composed of 3 rooms plus bathroom and attic. It had decent amount of space, but for eight people, it would've been cramped. The stairs were impossibly steep and they creaked loudly every time you stepped on one. They modified the house by adding a bridge from the secret annex back to the rest of the house to keep the tour moving forwards. And with everything they set up, it was impossible not to get emotional touring the house.

[Silverraptor]

Well, I may be jet lagged right now, but I'm finally home in the states. Now I just need to adjust myself and unpack.

[Jada Masters]

While I'm so jealous of your Euro trip when I read it here last year, we also had our own little getaway and we went to Thailand. Vaction was great. We went to Phuket and stayed at Malisa Villa Suites. The hotel was great, the beach was great, the food was great except for one thing.

A week after we got home I noticed that my hair was falling out and it's kinda alarming. I'm sure that I'm not allergic to any food or something that might cause this but still I keep thinking that I got this from our trip. I'm getting impatient and I'm almost tempted to go to a hair specialist (http://www.bosleymedical.com/). This is freaking me out because I only see this kind of scenario in a movie and it always end up worst! Good thing nothing "mysterious" happened during your trip.

[Silverraptor]

While I'm so jealous of your Euro trip when I read it here last year, we also had our own little getaway and we went to Thailand. Vaction was great. We went to Phuket and stayed at Malisa Villa Suites. The hotel was great, the beach was great, the food was great except for one thing.

A week after we got home I noticed that my hair was falling out and it's kinda alarming. I'm sure that I'm not allergic to any food or something that might cause this but still I keep thinking that I got this from our trip. I'm getting impatient and I'm almost tempted to go to a hair specialist (http://www.bosleymedical.com/). This is freaking me out because I only see this kind of scenario in a movie and it always end up worst! Good thing nothing "mysterious" happened during your trip.

Yikes, hope your hair gets sorted out.

[trueexciting]

While I'm so jealous of your Euro trip when I read it here last year, we also had our own little getaway and we went to Thailand. Vaction was great. We went to Phuket and stayed at Malisa Villa Suites. The hotel was great, the beach was great, the food was great except for one thing.

A week after we got home I noticed that my hair was falling out and it's kinda alarming. I'm sure that I'm not allergic to any food or something that might cause this but still I keep thinking that I got this from our trip. I'm getting impatient and I'm almost tempted to go to a hair specialist (http://www.bosleymedical.com/). This is freaking me out because I only see this kind of scenario in a movie and it always end up worst! Good thing nothing "mysterious" happened during your trip.

Is this for real? I have an upcoming trip to Thailand but not in Phuket though. This got me a little worried :smallfrown: