Lowest level build to gain proficiency in all skills

[SirisC]

I was wondering what was the fastest way to gain proficiency in all skills, I can currently get them all by level 10.

My initial attempt:

Human Variant
Rogue 8/Ranger 1/Bard 1
or
Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Bard 8
or
Rogue 1/Ranger 8/Bard 1

Any background, for this example: Charlatan


Feats:
1 Skilled (Human)
2 Skilled (Rogue 4)
3 Skilled (Rogue 8)

Skills:
Athletics (Rogue)
Acrobatics (Rogue)
Sleight of Hand (Charlatan)
Stealth (Rogue)
Arcana (Feat 3)
History (Bard)
Investigation (Ranger)
Nature (Feat 3)
Religion (Feat 3)
Animal Handling (Feat 2)
Insight (Human)
Medicine (Feat 2)
Perception (Feat 1)
Survival (Feat 1)
Deception (Charlatan)
Intimidation (Rogue)
Performance (Feat 2)
Persuasion (Feat 1)


This is mostly a thought exercise, hopefully a level or two can be shaved off.

[Vhaluus]

feats can only be taken once unless otherwise noted, it wasn't noted.

[SirisC]

In that case, I don't think it is possible to get all 18 skills and half elf would be a better option for starting race.

Half elf: 2 skills
Rogue: 4 skills
Background: 2 skills
Bard: 1 skill
Ranger: 1 skill
Skilled feat: 3 skills
Total: 13 skills by level 3 4

Edit: As Soras Teva Gee pointed out, the feat is taken at level 4, not level 3.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Do any multi-class options give you more then one skill proficiency?

Oh and the Feat is level 4 right?

[Vhaluus]

Do any multi-class options give you more then one skill proficiency?

No, rogue ranger and bard only give 1 skill proficiency, though some do give tool proficiencies which aren't what we're looking at here.

Incidentally if you could take skilled multiple times it would be better to go 1/1/1/6 fighter. Gets you there a level earlier.

[T.G. Oskar]

2 levels in Warlock and getting the Beguiling Influence invocation nets you Deception and Persuasion proficiency. 3 levels of Bard also nets you three skills if you choose College of Lore. That's roughly 5 levels. If you start with Rogue, you could start with 4 skills, plus 2 from background (the highest amount of skills overall). Bard nets you 4 more skills (1 from multiclassing, 3 from College of Lore), while Warlock nets you 2 from the Invocation. That'd be 12 skills overall, which cuts your choice of feats from 3 to 2; 1 level of Bard and 2 of Warlock nets you those skills. All in all, you shave off one level from the progression (Rogue 1/Bard 4/Warlock 4), a lot of cantrips and the merge of Bardic spellcasting and Warlock Pact Magic. You also get Expertise, which is phenomenal, and free proficiencies with Thieves' Tools and musical instruments. It ALSO happens to save you on skills, requiring only Dex 13 and Cha 13 to qualify. You can finish progressing in Bard and Rogue for four instances of Expertise, so that you can be a true skill master. You could shave off a few more levels simply by taking the right race, or gain more flexibility with backgrounds through the right choice of race (Elves get Perception for free IIRC; Half-Orcs gain Intimidate for free).

But yeah: Rogue 1/Bard 4/Warlock 4, for 9th level top. Fair enough, or am I missing something?

[SirisC]

If you add half elf, the skilled feat, and 1 level or ranger to T.G. Oskar's build (edit: and cut 2 levels from warlock), you have 18 out of 18 skills by level 10 8, and since the skilled feat is only used once it looks like it isn't breaking any rules.

Rogue 1/ Bard 4/ Warlock 2/Ranger 1

Half Elf: 2
Background: 2
Rogue: 4
Bard: 4
Warlock: 2
Skilled Feat: 3
Ranger: 1
Total: 18

[Soras Teva Gee]

Rogue1/Bard3/Warlock2/Ranger1 = 7 Levels

And done?

[SaintRidley]

You need Bard 4 to grab Skilled.

[Giant2005]

Human (Variant): 1 of choice
Background: 2 of choice
Skilled (Feat): 3 of choice

Rogue 1: Choose four from Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance. Sleight of Hand, and Stealth

Bard 3 (Lore): 4 of choice

Cleric 1 (Knowledge): two of the following skills: Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion.

Warlock 2: Deception and Persuasion (Beguiling Influence)

That is all 18 in 7 levels.

[Grynning]

I think the best stat line for that would be
Str 10, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 14, with your human stat bumps going to Dex and Cha. Meets all the multiclassing requirements, no penalties (since they are a jack of all trades) and lets you emphasize Cha for Bard/Warlock casting; probably want to only prep cleric spells that aren't attack/save based. Rest of the levels go into Bard.
For some reason, I like the Folk Hero background for this. It just feels right and gives you two skills that aren't redundant with any of your classes.

[Naanomi]

Another level of Cleric lets you pick up any of the tool skills or languages as you need them (with turning attemps) to add to the jack of all trades feel.

[Gnomes2169]

Lowest level build:

Varient human with skilled feat: 4
Rogue: 4
Background: 2
A lot of gold and a year of training time later: The rest.

Level 1: Peoficient in all skills.

Of course, this is assuming they kept the "50 gold + 1 month of training gets you a proficient skill" thing from the playtest... I haven't gone out to buy my phb just yet.

[hymer]

Of course, this is assuming they kept the "50 gold + 1 month of training gets you a proficient skill" thing from the playtest... I haven't gone out to buy my phb just yet.

IIRC: 250 days of training at 1gp per day will teach you a language or proficiency in a tool set - but not skills.

[Gnomes2169]

Ahhhh, alright. Nevermind on that then.

[SirisC]

Human (Variant): 1 of choice
Background: 2 of choice
Skilled (Feat): 3 of choice

Rogue 1: Choose four from Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Performance. Sleight of Hand, and Stealth

Bard 3 (Lore): 4 of choice

Cleric 1 (Knowledge): two of the following skills: Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion.

Warlock 2: Deception and Persuasion (Beguiling Influence)

That is all 18 in 7 levels.

All 18 in 7 levels plus expertise* in 4 skills. Raise rogue up to 6 and bard to 10 and you have a total of 10 skills with expertise*.

*:blessings of knowledge is pretty much the same as expertise.

[T.G. Oskar]

If you add half elf, the skilled feat, and 1 level or ranger to T.G. Oskar's build (edit: and cut 2 levels from warlock), you have 18 out of 18 skills by level 10 8, and since the skilled feat is only used once it looks like it isn't breaking any rules.

Rogue 1/ Bard 4/ Warlock 2/Ranger 1

Half Elf: 2
Background: 2
Rogue: 4
Bard: 4
Warlock: 2
Skilled Feat: 3
Ranger: 1
Total: 18

Noticed later about the single iteration of the Skilled feat being the only legal move, so yeah: you can gain proficiency in all skills (plus thieves' tools and 3 musical instruments) by 8th level, and you have the way to get all Expertise as well (but much later).

Half-Elf - Rogue 6 (Arcane Trickster)/Bard 10 (College of Lore)/Warlock 2 (any patron)/Ranger 1 = 19 levels.

Half Elf: 2
Background: 2 (potentially: using Grynning's suggestion of Folk Hero)
Rogue: 4
Bard: 4 (1 multiclass + 3 College of Lore)
Warlock: 2 (Deception + Persuasion, from Beguiling Influence invocation)
Skilled Feat: 3 (taken at Rogue 4th or Bard 4th)
Ranger: 1 (1 multiclass)
Total: 18

Expertise: 8 (Rogue 1st and 6th; Bard 3rd and 10th)

Spellcasting: Bard 5th, Arcane Trickster 1st, Warlock 1st; Maximum Spell slots (10 from Bard + 1/3rd of 6 from Rogue = 12th level equivalent; 6th level spell slots)

Cantrips: Mage Hand + 8 cantrips (4 Bard, 2 Arcane Trickster, 2 Warlock)

Other Features: Sneak Attack 3d6, Cunning Action, Thieves' Cant, Uncanny Dodge, Bardic Inspiration (d10), Song of Rest (d8), Jack of All Trades, Font of Inspiration, Countercharm, Magical Secrets, Favored Enemy, Natural Explore

Subclass Features: Cutting Words, Additional Magical Secrets, Mage Hand Legerdemain

--

Between the spells (5th level maximum: you can reach 6th level with 1 more level of Bard, or 2nd level spells with Rogue or Warlock if you choose to), the Sneak Attack (you only get 1 attack anyways, so make it count) and the skills, this actually seems to be a pretty solid build, and not just a novelty. Jack of All Trades adds to ability checks, but all skill-related (and some tool-related) checks are done at full proficiency bonus (you still add half your Proficiency bonus to Initiative), and you get to use your Bonus Action for some solid actions (particularly Hide). That 20th level would be a massive wildcard, because you can reinforce all choices: Bard nets you 6th level spells, Rogue nets you 2nd level spells through Arcane Trickster and an extra Sneak Attack damage dice, Warlock nets you 2nd level spells based on Pact Magic and your Pact Boon, Ranger nets you 1st level spells and a Fighting Style. Not to mention that you get cantrips galore, from a HUGE variety (Wizard cantrips from Arcane Trickster, Warlock cantrips and Bard cantrips; you can get three more cantrips if you choose to put that wildcard 20th level on Warlock and get the Book of Shadows), so you can get an astounding amount of cantrips as well.

Combat-wise, between Sneak Attack, your Dexterity and your proficiencies (you're not too shabby on them), you can fight pretty well. You can probably fight better with that wildcard level landing on Ranger (for Archery or Two-Weapon Fighting) or Warlock (for Pact of the Blade), or even Rogue for the extra Sneak Attack. Defense-wise, you get Uncanny Dodge, Light Armor and a variety of defensive spells from both Bard and Arcane Trickster, plus you can hide with ease with a Bonus Action and probably spend your Arcane Trickster spell slots on Shield if you want to (via the third "free choice" from Arcane Trickster).

...Who would have thought that looking at the evolution of this build could make a pretty decent powerhouse?

[SirisC]

The level of ranger could be swapped for a level of Cleric (knowledge).

You still get all skills, plus you have expertise in 10 skills instead of 8.

You also get 3 more cantrips and 2 first level cleric spell slots to prepare. (Mage Hand + 11 cantrips)

You give up Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer and proficiency with martial weapons.

Also, both ranger and cleric give proficiency with medium armor and shields.

[hawklost]

Half-elf - 2 skills (Skill Versatility)
Background - 2 Skills
Rogue - 4 skills - lvl 1

Bard 3 (Lore) - 4 Skills (multiclass + 3 lore) - lvl 4
Feat (Skilled) - 3 Skills (lvl 4 feat)
Cleric (Knowledge) - 2 skills lvl 5
Ranger - 1 skill (multiclass)lvl 6

This gives it to you at lvl 6

[T.G. Oskar]

Half-elf - 2 skills (Skill Versatility)
Background - 2 Skills
Rogue - 4 skills - lvl 1

Bard 3 (Lore) - 4 Skills (multiclass + 3 lore) - lvl 4
Feat (Skilled) - 3 Skills (lvl 4 feat)
Cleric (Knowledge) - 2 skills lvl 5
Ranger - 1 skill (multiclass)lvl 6

This gives it to you at lvl 6

You need Bard 4 to get the Skilled feat: you don't progress ability scores the way you progress Proficiency Bonus (Ability Score Progressions are class features now).

Thus, you'd need Rogue 1/Bard 4/Cleric 1/Ranger 1 to get all skills, and thus 7 levels. It's still faster than Rogue 1/Bard 4/Warlock 2/Ranger 1, but only for 1 level. You also get the equivalent of Expertise on the proficiencies gained through Blessings of Knowledge, so in the end it's even better. You do lose the Warlock cantrips, so unless you spend your free levels (which are now two) on Warlock, you won't get as many cantrips as before.

Incidentally: without adding Druid, Fighter (Eldritch Knight), Sorcerer or Wizard levels, this is as close as a "cantrip master" you can get without being too bloated. It's also a more efficient skill-monkey than a pure Rogue or Bard (up to 10 of your 18 skills apply twice your proficiency bonus), as well.

[Vincent Dragon]

Since this build already has 7 levels (Half-Elf + Background + Rogue 1/Bard 4/Cleric 1/Ranger 1) and 4 of those are Bard levels, you could simply go the remaining 13 levels as Bard, so in the 20th level you learn 9th level spells as Bard 17.

Proficiency in all skills, expertise on some, 9th level spells, seems solid.

[Naanomi]

Proficiency in all skills, expertise on some, 9th level spells, seems solid.
Seems *very* solid; and don't forget 1/2 proficiency on all Tools from the Jack-of-All-Trades you've otherwise made obsolete. Wear a breast-plate to keep your stealth options open.

So, focus on feats that help your impressive skill array out? (Athlete, Actor, Dungeon Delver, ?Lucky?, Observant, Skulker); or increase Attributes to spread the love for increased Skill performance?

[Vincent Dragon]

Seems *very* solid; and don't forget 1/2 proficiency on all Tools from the Jack-of-All-Trades you've otherwise made obsolete. Wear a breast-plate to keep your stealth options open.

So, focus on feats that help your impressive skill array out? (Athlete, Actor, Dungeon Delver, ?Lucky?, Observant, Skulker); or increase Attributes to spread the love for increased Skill performance?

Other option instead of going full Bard after getting proficient on all skills is to go +6 levels of Rogue (Expertise on 2 more skills and 2nd level spells of Arcane Trickster) and +7 of Bard (Expertise on 2 more skills and 6th level spells of Bard).

You trade a 7th, 8th and 9th spell slot + one 6th spell know, two 7th spells know, two 8th spells know and one 9th spell know for Expertise on four more skills (Rogue 6 and Bard 10 both gives Expertise for two skills) + Spells of Arcane Trickster (5 spells know up to 2nd level spells).

[Naanomi]

This might be the topic for a new thread instead, but which skills would benefit most from the expertize (to see if it is worth hunting down as many such bonuses as we can)?

Athletics is grappling; Investigation, Perception, and Insight (and to a lesser degree Stealth) benefit a great deal as Passive checks. Is there something about Arcana being involved in reading scrolls? I forget.

Most of the other skills are 'how much would I want to do this?' conceptual things; and some (knowledge type skills) the Expertize might not truly shine without a matching high-score in the matching attribute (IE: Expertize in History doesn't have the same 'I'm the all-time master of knowing the past' vibe without a matching Intelligence score)

[Vincent Dragon]

Up just to say that Human can also get all 18 skills in 7 levels like Half-Elf:

Replace the Bard and the Ranger level for Warlock 2. You lose one skill from Half-Elf and one from Ranger, but get 2 skills from Warlock 2. You don't need the 4th level of Bard since you get Skilled feat as Human then you get one level of Warlock instead, then you replace Ranger for the 2nd level of Warlock.

So you can go Half-Elf Rogue 1/Bard 4/Cleric of Knowledge 1/Ranger 1 or Human Rogue 1/Bard 3/Cleric of Knowledge 1/Warlock 2.

The levels you get after that depends if you want more cantrips, class features, expertise, spells, or whatever kind of stuff you need.

[Person_Man]

I know this is thread is basically just a theoretical exercise.

But it seems like its basically pointless for more then one player to have proficiency in Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, Religion, Sleight of Hand, Survival, or any tool. And that having Expertise, Inspiration, Advantage, etc, is a lot more important then just having Proficiency. Whereas pretty much every character wants Proficiency in Perception and Stealth.

Knowing that, I think that 2-3 Bards (or maybe Rogue/Bards) working together could basically cover every possible Skill challenge with an extremely high level of success, without sacrificing any Feats or combat ability.

[T.G. Oskar]

I know this is thread is basically just a theoretical exercise.

But it seems like its basically pointless for more then one player to have proficiency in Arcana, History, Investigation, Nature, Religion, Sleight of Hand, Survival, or any tool. And that having Expertise, Inspiration, Advantage, etc, is a lot more important then just having Proficiency. Whereas pretty much every character wants Proficiency in Perception and Stealth.

Knowing that, I think that 2-3 Bards (or maybe Rogue/Bards) working together could basically cover every possible Skill challenge with an extremely high level of success, without sacrificing any Feats or combat ability.

The point of the exercise is not entirely pointless (forgive me for being redundant on that, but it drives the point like a jackhammer). A character that has access to all skill proficiencies, and a few tools on top, at the lowest level possible works to indicate the easiest ways to cover for any possible missing skill, since chances are that players won't think of overlapping; if they're focused on a theme, they'll eventually meet some redundancies.

It is conductive to discussion. The build relies on multiclassing, which is by default non-existent; it is an optional feature within the Player's Handbook. As such, a Half-Elf College of Lore Bard is potentially the class with the highest amount of skill proficiencies around, and the one with the highest possibility to cover that skill proficiency the rest of the party will lack. Without singling out this possibility, the party have to be pre-constructed to work any missing bits, or the DM may be forced to improvise by nudging the DC or allowing an alternative, which can be disruptive if the DM is a newbie and using a pre-made module. Thus, it is an easy safeguard for such a potential situation.

It also indicates the classes with the highest possible amount of skills if taken on their own. College of Lore Bard is the clear winner (6 skills with this combination), followed by Rogue (4 skills without any other requirement), Ranger (3 skills without any other requirement), Knowledge domain Cleric (2 skills by class alone, plus 2 from the domain itself) and Warlock (2 skills, plus Deception and Persuasion by the Beguiling Influence invocation). These indicate all the options that could be considered "skill-monkeys" and their focuses (Bard = everything, Rogue = stealth and subterfuge, Ranger = self-sufficiency, Knowledge Cleric = academic venues and religious duties, Warlock = face and arcane skill), in case you want to play an honest to goodness skill-focused character (i.e. any class that has Expertise) or an alternative to it (Knowledge Cleric is the best example of this, and so does the Warlock). This provides a variety of options when combined with a background.

The premise of the thread IS a theoretical exercise, but the results can be made practical. The build itself is practical: extend the build to cover all Expertises, and with Knowledge domain Cleric you have probably the best skill-monkey build around, but the class is still great on combat and has great spellcasting ability. It is a good example of how the multiclassing system is more effective when compared to 3.x. You can extrapolate practical assumptions from it (the result of all five "skill-monkey" classes, with or without their archetypes). And, such a build could grant positive redundancy: what would happen if, for some reason, the character with the right skill perishes and the party has no Raise Dead prepared (alternatively; no material component for it, or its alternative), and the party is in the middle of a dungeon? You can have a way to cover for those flaws.

Furthermore: by having a Bard/Rogue build, you have the class with the highest amount of Expertise slots possible, which conducts to what you mention. Having 8 possible Expertise "slots", with two more from the Knowledge domain Cleric class feature gained at 1st level, means you can make skill checks (that is, ability checks while adding proficiency bonus from skill proficiency) with high reliability, while still having allies with apparently redundant proficiencies in case you fall out. Between 10 different kinds of Expertise and ways to get Advantage on them, you really can't say the build is impractical. The big difference between the two is that a pure-classed Bard or Rogue will get Expertise earlier on, and probably get all Expertise "slots" filled before this build can, and that's no problem: in fact, it is what this build sacrifices, but eventually obsoletes.

So...saying that this exercise is pointless isn't exactly right. It is an exercise on optimization, of course (you're looking to get the highest amount of skill proficiencies in the least amount of time, in order to be the best skill-monkey), but it doesn't mean it can't be practical. In fact, the post I made previous to my last (though not attuned to the "fixed" builds) shows how the evolution of the build makes for a solid, practical character, one that wouldn't be possible on earlier games (not even on Pathfinder, if my memory serves right). That, to me, is pretty surprising, particularly since other than using an optional feature (available right from the PHB, so it's not like we're inventing something), it is a build you can do just by researching the PHB. It doesn't rely on the line of thought used by Theoretical Optimization, which is a huge plus.

You're free to argue why this is or isn't valuable, but this is valuable data to me, and valuable data that pushes the limits of the system. Making a backstory that goes with it (and specifically one that fits the chosen background, as the choice of background is a must) is a challenge to my roleplayer side, so it's not like it's a vapid optimization exercise either.

[DrLemniscate]

Hmm...

Put all your extra levels in Rogue (Assassin). Should be able to get all Ability Scores to 14.

Then your minimum roll on any skillcheck becomes ...

10 (Reliable Talent, Rogue) + 6 (Proficiency) + 2 (Modifier) = 18, 24 with Expertise.

Or an average roll of 20.75, 26.75.

I think the Cleric 2 is definitely required, since once a day you can become proficient in any skill or tool for 10min.

Or instead of trying to be good at everything, you could focus on being really good at one thing.

You could get a passive Perception or Investigation of 10 + 5 (WIS/INT) + 12 (Expertise) + 5 (Observant feat) = 32. Nothing gets past you. You can give House / Sherlock / Monk speils at will.

You could become really good at disguise. You can have a minimum roll on Deception, Performance, Persuasion, or a few other skills you might need of:

10 (Reliable Talent) + 5 (Modifier) + 12 (Expertise) = 27, or an average of 29.5.

You can also have advantage on any rolls related to your deceit (Actor feat, Assassin features), making this an average of 31.54

[DrLemniscate]

How about all languages?

The highest I've been able to get is 13.

3 (Half-Elf) + 2 (Sage/Acolyte) + 3 (Ranger 14) + 2 (Cleric 1) + 3 (Linguist feat)

For the 3 leftover, maybe just leave these as Standard languages (Dwarven, Elvish, Gnomish maybe) that you can learn later from someone for 250 days and 250gp.

Your DM might need to allow this, but I think you can work around it.

[hawklost]

How about all languages?

The highest I've been able to get is 13.

3 (Half-Elf) + 2 (Sage/Acolyte) + 3 (Ranger 14) + 2 (Cleric 1) + 3 (Linguist feat)

For the 3 leftover, maybe just leave these as Standard languages (Dwarven, Elvish, Gnomish maybe) that you can learn later from someone for 250 days and 250gp.

Your DM might need to allow this, but I think you can work around it.

lvl 1 and lots and lots of time and money. :smallbiggrin:

[idor]

How about all languages?

The highest I've been able to get is 13.

3 (Half-Elf) + 2 (Sage/Acolyte) + 3 (Ranger 14) + 2 (Cleric 1) + 3 (Linguist feat)

For the 3 leftover, maybe just leave these as Standard languages (Dwarven, Elvish, Gnomish maybe) that you can learn later from someone for 250 days and 250gp.

Your DM might need to allow this, but I think you can work around it.

you would also want a level of druid for druidic and a level of rogue for thieves cant

now... this way wouldn't be learning all the languages but...
warlock 2 for the invocation eyes of the rune keeper
monk 13 for tongue of the sun and moon
and since we still have a few more levels
rogue 1 for thieves cant (its hidden within other languages of course)
druid 1 for druidic (just so that you auto spot the messages and can read them properly)
and then, just to add to it since this is so off base anyway... cap off with 3 more levels of warlock so that you can get beast speech to add animal speech as well

in the end
warlock 5
monk 13
rogue 1
druid 1
and all messages from anything should be understood by you (probably excluding puns)

[Aett_Thorn]

Thread necro...ahoy!