Changeling Chameleon?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Essentially I've been looking at making a Chameleon, so any advice for how to use the class well is appreciated.

However, something specifically that concerns me is when I look at the page for Chameleon is says only Humans and Dopplegangers can be it.
But when I look up Chameleon advice everyone is talking about Changeling, but never explaining how. So basically I'm wondering what is it people are doing to be able to be a Changeling and use Chameleon?

[torrasque666]

Racial Emulation. (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-eberron--10/racial-emulation--2348/) Lets them count as any humanoid for racial prereqs.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ah I see. Thanks. :)

Though this makes me wonder something else, if I were to shape change to a non-human would I then lose my Chameleon levels during that time?

[Kennisiou]

In the Races of Destiny manual it suggests that DMs might want to allow Changelings to be Chameleons in Eberron campaigns. A lot of people have stretched that to assume that Changelings should be allowed to play Chameleons in general, as well as to mean they should have access to the prerequisite Able Learner feat. It's not RAW at all, but it definitely seems to be RAI and RAS ("Rules-as-suggested"). It was pretty lame of them to not just make the feat and class available to Changelings in general. Basically, point this out to your GM and ask if you can have access to the Able Learner prerequisite feat and the Chameleon class.

[Jeff the Green]

In the Races of Destiny manual it suggests that DMs might want to allow Changelings to be Chameleons in Eberron campaigns. A lot of people have stretched that to assume that Changelings should be allowed to play Chameleons in general, as well as to mean they should have access to the prerequisite Able Learner feat. It's not RAW at all, but it definitely seems to be RAI and RAS ("Rules-as-suggested"). It was pretty lame of them to not just make the feat and class available to Changelings in general. Basically, point this out to your GM and ask if you can have access to the Able Learner prerequisite feat and the Chameleon class.

It's a bit more than suggested:

If you're using the EBERRON Campaign Setting, the chameleon prestige class should be available to changeling player characters as well as humans and doppelgangers. In this case, the Able Learner feat extends to changelings as well.

[Thurbane]

What a stupid distinction for the writers of RoD to make. Any campaign that has CHangelings should be able to make use of the same rule.

MM3 opened up Changelings (and Warforged, and Shifters) as non-campaign specific races. I suppose it must have come out after RoD.

I have a fair bit of disdain for Eberron in general, but I don't mind yoinking Shifters and Changelings as races for my own campaign. Warforged, not so much. Each to their own.

[bekeleven]

It got relaxed eventually, but for a long while it was policy that books couldn't refer to content besides themselves and core. Frankly, we're lucky that changelings were mentioned at all.

[Thurbane]

It got relaxed eventually, but for a long while it was policy that books couldn't refer to content besides themselves and core. Frankly, we're lucky that changelings were mentioned at all.

True. I mean, I can understand the reasoning - but sometimes it also lead to pointless duplication of nearly identical feats, prestige classes, monsters or items.

[Dusk Eclipse]

What a stupid distinction for the writers of RoD to make. Any campaign that has CHangelings should be able to make use of the same rule.

MM3 opened up Changelings (and Warforged, and Shifters) as non-campaign specific races. I suppose it must have come out after RoD.

I have a fair bit of disdain for Eberron in general, but I don't mind yoinking Shifters and Changelings as races for my own campaign. Warforged, not so much. Each to their own.

If you don't mind me asking, why?

[Jeff the Green]

True. I mean, I can understand the reasoning - but sometimes it also lead to pointless duplication of nearly identical feats, prestige classes, monsters or items.

Plus really, really obvious combinations that no designer could have desired.

[Thurbane]

Plus really, really obvious combinations that no designer could have desired.

So, so true.


If you don't mind me asking, why?

I respect it as a setting, but it's really not for me. Flavor-wise, far too steam-punky; my main objection, however, that, like the Forgotten realms, the designers seemed to ramp "everything up to 11" to make it stand out. Action Points, Dragon Marks etc. They all seem flavorful, but at the end of the day, are all additional ways to break the game.

In the sake of fairness, I should point out that that I haven't played a LOT of Eberron based games. I own the main setting book and a couple of others I got cheap when 4E was announced and my FLGS was clearing 3.X stock.

There are, however, some things I really like about it. Mainly Changelings and Shifters as PC races. I'm a bit 50/50 on Warforged. I love the concept of a playable construct, but their flavor and history is just too strongly connected to one camapign setting for me to port them over to my non-Eberron game (my games are pretty much a slightly altered version of Greyhawk).

[Dusk Eclipse]

To each to their own I guess. I personally find Eberron a lot tamer than Forgotten Realms in general, but I see where you are coming from.

[Chronos]

I don't see that warforged are hard to port at all. Just give them the same stats etc., and make up a different origin for them. There's really not much mechanically tying them to the Creation Forges and the Great War.

[Jeff the Green]

I don't see that warforged are hard to port at all. Just give them the same stats etc., and make up a different origin for them. There's really not much mechanically tying them to the Creation Forges and the Great War.

Basically anywhere with enough magic and wealth is a candidate for their origin. In FR it's Halruaa, I believe. In my world they're dwarf work because I had to steal something from Dragon Age the dwarves are masters of magic item construction and have need of laborers capable of surviving mines filled with toxic fumes, underwater, and other environments unsuitable for humanoids while still being capable of taking initiative.

[Thurbane]

I don't see that warforged are hard to port at all. Just give them the same stats etc., and make up a different origin for them. There's really not much mechanically tying them to the Creation Forges and the Great War.

Each to their own, I just find the fluff with them pretty overwhelmingly tied to Eberron. More of a gut reaction than anything factual though.


To each to their own I guess. I personally find Eberron a lot tamer than Forgotten Realms in general, but I see where you are coming from.

Fair enough. FWIW, I'd definitely take an Eberron based game over an FR one. FR (since 3.X anyway) just feels like "Hey, you like Greyhawk? Well here's EXTREME GREYHAWK, where every second person you meet is an archmage or undercover avatar of a deity...". :smalltongue:

[Divide by Zero]

Each to their own, I just find the fluff with them pretty overwhelmingly tied to Eberron. More of a gut reaction than anything factual though.

Well of course, because the default fluff comes from Eberron. But if you can't figure out how to fit what basically amounts to free-willed golems in any other setting, you probably aren't trying hard enough.

[Jeff the Green]

Well of course, because the default fluff comes from Eberron. But if you can't figure out how to fit what basically amounts to free-willed golems in any other setting, you probably aren't trying hard enough.

Eh, I can think of plenty of settings where I'd be hard-pressed to come up with fluff. Barovia in Ravenloft, for example. Masque of the Red Death even more so.

[Thurbane]

Well of course, because the default fluff comes from Eberron. But if you can't figure out how to fit what basically amounts to free-willed golems in any other setting, you probably aren't trying hard enough.

I guess. I personally prefer Maugs, but they aren't very player friendly.

Also, I kind of don't like the whole "living construct" deal - either you're organic, or an automaton (IMHO). Yeah, I know cyborgs are a category too, but I prefer them in sci-fi to fantasy.

[Sian]

very much in line with Thurbane on that one ... Eberron is to steam-punkish for my taste, much preferring Forgotten Realms. If you take care to stay away from the powerhouse/bookverse reservations, in the Northwest between Swordcoast and Dalelands (and to a certain degree Halaruaa, but thats not nearly as published, and a fairly important regional plot point), there is still a lot to see and experience in Forgotten Realms which aren't samey.

[Gwazi Magnum]

In the Races of Destiny manual it suggests that DMs might want to allow Changelings to be Chameleons in Eberron campaigns. A lot of people have stretched that to assume that Changelings should be allowed to play Chameleons in general, as well as to mean they should have access to the prerequisite Able Learner feat. It's not RAW at all, but it definitely seems to be RAI and RAS ("Rules-as-suggested"). It was pretty lame of them to not just make the feat and class available to Changelings in general. Basically, point this out to your GM and ask if you can have access to the Able Learner prerequisite feat and the Chameleon class.

It's a bit more than suggested:

Ah, I see. Thanks for this! :)

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to build a Chameleon and what to make the base class? I've never had to a tackle a "Could do anything depending on the day" sort of build before.

[Doc_Maynot]

For Chameleon, I prefer to enter with Factotum and/or Warlock. Though if you want to play a Changeling Chameleon, I hear people recommending a level of Changeling Rogue.

[Gwazi Magnum]

For Chameleon, I prefer to enter with Factotum and/or Warlock. Though if you want to play a Changeling Chameleon, I hear people recommending a level of Changeling Rogue.

I understand Factotum, but why Warlock?

[Divide by Zero]

I understand Factotum, but why Warlock?

Warlock has an ability that essentially lets them craft any item, but they have to have the feat for it - which is where Chameleon comes in. And when you're not crafting, you can use the floating feat for Extra Invocation to get a lot more versatility.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yeah but you need at least 12 warlocks levels for Imbue item, therefore I think you should treat that as a warlock build as opposed to a chameleon one.

Personally I'm fond of Spellthief 2/Duskblade 3/Chamelon 10/ something X with Master spellthief, that way you get some serious CL shenanigans and can deliver touch spells from two very strong lists.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Warlock has an ability that essentially lets them craft any item, but they have to have the feat for it - which is where Chameleon comes in. And when you're not crafting, you can use the floating feat for Extra Invocation to get a lot more versatility.

That's not gained until level 12. If you were to invest the full 10 in chameleon than this wouldn't be possible until Level 22.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Yeah but you need at least 12 warlocks levels for Imbue item, therefore I think you should treat that as a warlock build as opposed to a chameleon one.

Personally I'm fond of Spellthief 2/Duskblade 3/Chamelon 10/ something X with Master spellthief, that way you get some serious CL shenanigans and can deliver touch spells from two very strong lists.

What kind of shenanigans?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well Master Spellthief allows you to combine CL from all your arcane classes and Chameleon gives you double the class level as CL so you end up with 25 at level 10 of the class.

[Rebel7284]

What kind of shenanigans?

Master Spellthief

[Segev]

I've been toying with the idea of a Changeling Incarnate 4/Totemist 2 as an entry into Chameleon. It's a level later than minimum, but it leaves you with 6 soulmelds, 6 essentia, and chakra binds to Crown, Feet, Hands, and Totem. Your Essentia Capacity is 3 for most soulmelds, and 4 for anything bound to your Totem. That's enough to get soulmelds to give you good bonuses to a wide breadth of skills, or specialized abilities for specific roles in the party, which should complement or support whatever role you use your Chameleon abilities to take on.

It also is semi-magical going in without being a caster class that's failing to advance, and it's in classes that are easily splashable rather than losing something painful as you fail to level up in them.

You could round it out with a minor bloodline and 3 levels of Uncanny Trickster to advance both Meldshaper levels and your CL when being a caster as a Chameleon, and to advance either of your Meldshaper classes with Trickster. (There aren't any class features past level 10 to advance Chameleon with.)

Overall, you could have up to a CL of 15 (including from Practiced Spellcaster) off of Chameleon, a Meldshaper level of Incarnate 5,6,7, or 8/Totemist 6,5,4, or 3 (respectively). Between spells and the floating feat, you can open chakras almost at will, and shuffling Essentia around will make sure you're looking like an expert at whatever you're focused on not just today, but this particular round.

[Doc_Maynot]

I understand Factotum, but why Warlock?

The class has the skills needed to enter the PrC, the Arcane Caster Level from it qualifies you for Extra Spell which will allow you to fill your arcane spellbook (Chameleon can't be used to fill prerequisites), and also the invocations (even the lesser ones) are nice tricks I tend to refluff (at least from my character's perspective).
I usually go Factotum 1/Warlock 9/Chameleon 10