Are monks worth it?

[Hydra98]

I am planning on playing in a 5e game with my friends soon and I would like to know if the monk is worth playing from reading around I have gotten mix messages wether or not the monk is OP or not powerful enough to compete with the other classes. From the 3 different paths which is the best one, the way of the open palm was most appealing to me but which one is the strongest

[Leon]

Any class is worth if it does what you want it to do. Take other players opinions with a grain of salt when deciding on what you want, they may well not have the same interests or reasons to play any given class and will judge it differently.

[Hydra98]

But from a party stand point would I be useful for the team or will I be a burden playing a monk

[Leon]

as i said. Anything is worthwhile to play. Whether your a burden or a boon to a party comes from what you the player do with it.

[Inevitability]

All classes in 5e can contribute to the party. What are the other people playing?

And don't worry about being strong or not-strong. In 5e, you can be the weakest class and have the weakest subclass and still make something of it. The optimization floor is that high.

[Yuki Akuma]

Monks are pretty good at level 1. They get two attacks (without being forced to wield light weapons) and have fairly good AC.

At level two, they gain two ki points per short rest they can spend to do stuff as bonus actions - one extra attack (bringing them up to three attacks per round), Dodge, or Dash/Withdraw. Fighters can only Action Surge once per short rest, although on the other hand Rogues can use Cunning Action every round. So they fall kinda in the middle there.

At level three you become resistant to ranged attacks and get your path.

All in all I'd say Monk isn't the strongest class, but is still plenty useful.

[Yorrin]

Monks are certainly playable. Personally I like the Shadow Monks best, but the others both have their uses. Shadow Monk 12/Assassin Rogue 8 might just be the best "stealth" character in the game...

[Caelic]

Monks are certainly playable. Personally I like the Shadow Monks best, but the others both have their uses. Shadow Monk 12/Assassin Rogue 8 might just be the best "stealth" character in the game...


"I'm a ninja. I ninj for a living."

[Sartharina]

Monks are slightly different, and all three subclasses do different things.

Right now, monks have damage on-par with everyone else due to a lack of 3e's MAD (Free finesse and dex to damage keeps them good), though strict Soldiers(Paladin,Barbarian,Fighter) will eventually outclass them in DPR. However, where a monk really shines is battlefield mobility. I think the reason Stunning Fist is so cheap and so powerful is because it's the monk's job to use it, giving them an incentive to put their mobility to use and spread their attacks to several targets in a turn.

However - the 3e problems have been suitably fixed - no longer as MAD, no longer "Flurry of Whiffs" (No penalties to their multiple attacks, and on same proficiency bonus as everyone else), their mobility and extra attacks are in synergy instead of discord, etc.

[Grynning]

Everyone I know who's playing a monk right now is having a blast with it. They are pretty damn effective at low levels, and the oft-mentioned stunning fist and the powers from their paths give them some flexibility as the game goes on.
I despised monks in 3rd edition for their awful mechanics, thought that the 4th ed ones were cool but a distinctly different class, but I like 5th ed monks a lot and think they're a great choice for someone wanting to play a non-standard melee character.

[CyberThread]

The optimization floor is that high.

I wouldn't say it is that high, just the racial choices are strong with no weak points, and the background method allows folks to garner , what were once class features making things expandable.


While class choice is clearly the core pillar of character creation, background and race choices can clearly make something out of nothing.

[numerek]

Monks are certainly playable. Personally I like the Shadow Monks best, but the others both have their uses. Shadow Monk 12/Assassin Rogue 8 might just be the best "stealth" character in the game...

Monk level 12 gives an ability score bump, level 11s invisibility feature isn't all that great, the next good feature a monk gets is at level 7 for magical unarmed strikes and evasion.
Rouge doesn't get much "stealth" wise from levels 4 to 8 only gives 2 expertise and 2 ability score bumps as far as stealthy (it does give you some survivability abilities one of which monk also gets) and you could have already taken expertise in stealth and another skill.
Where as 3 levels warlock gives you devil's sight and at will disguise self, invisibility and could free up some ki points from casting darkness. Imp familiar is pretty stealth also. Fey Presence can help you get away if your stealth fail
3 levels cleric trickery domain gives you blessing of the trickster, Invoke duplicity, guidance, blindness/deafness, calm emotions, enhance ability, silence(again can use Ki points for other things).

So monk 8/ rouge 4/ warlock 4/ cleric 4 might be better and you still get all the ability score improvements. You could trade off an ability score improvement for 3rd levels spells(fly, gaseous form) in warlock and another invocation, or 3rd level cleric spells.

[Yorrin]

I wouldn't say it is that high, just the racial choices are strong with no weak points, and the background method allows folks to garner , what were once class features making things expandable.


While class choice is clearly the core pillar of character creation, background and race choices can clearly make something out of nothing.

Kinda. In 3.5, for example, you could play a Commoner 20 and with the right race and feats still be competent, because some races and feats were just THAT good (Azurin+Incarnum, for example), but you weren't really playing a Commoner in that case- you were playing a less good version of whatever class you were emulating via feats. In 5e even the worst class(es) (Ranger?) are still strong enough that they play like themselves and meaningfully contribute.


stuff

I'm sorry, I should have specified best non-caster. Because Shadow Monk really isn't a caster despite being able to use Ki for Darkness a few times a day.

[Yuki Akuma]

Monk level 12 gives an ability score bump, level 11s invisibility feature isn't all that great, the next good feature a monk gets is at level 7 for magical unarmed strikes and evasion.
Rouge doesn't get much "stealth" wise from levels 4 to 8 only gives 2 expertise and 2 ability score bumps as far as stealthy (it does give you some survivability abilities one of which monk also gets) and you could have already taken expertise in stealth and another skill.
Where as 3 levels warlock gives you devil's sight and at will disguise self, invisibility and could free up some ki points from casting darkness. Imp familiar is pretty stealth also. Fey Presence can help you get away if your stealth fail
3 levels cleric trickery domain gives you blessing of the trickster, Invoke duplicity, guidance, blindness/deafness, calm emotions, enhance ability, silence(again can use Ki points for other things).

So monk 8/ rouge 4/ warlock 4/ cleric 4 might be better and you still get all the ability score improvements. You could trade off an ability score improvement for 3rd levels spells(fly, gaseous form) in warlock and another invocation, or 3rd level cleric spells.

Rogue. Rouge is a type of makeup. A rogue is a scoundrel who does things his own way.

[Beige]

the monk is certainly no longer the joke he was in 3.5, but then as far as I've seen, 5e seems much more balanced right now, and the monk is certainly viable. though he has less damage than the other melee classes by the end of the game (low levels he's a beast o.0), the enhanced focus on mobility in this edition makes him a very usefull controller as well as having reasonable damage, zipping round the battlefield hitting folks with stunning blows left and right.

so I'd say he's very worth it.

though I'd argue the optimization floor is as high as 3.5's phb was. just that was a muti-story building, whereas this ones just on a little bit of a slope...

@ yuki: 4 attacks at level 2, not 3. one as standard, one from martial arts, then two from flurry of blows. it's glorious :smallbiggrin:

[pwykersotz]

Rogue. Rouge is a type of makeup. A rogue is a scoundrel who does things his own way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/MistoNinja/RougeLeader.jpg

[Grynning]

@ yuki: 4 attacks at level 2, not 3. one as standard, one from martial arts, then two from flurry of blows. it's glorious :smallbiggrin:

Nope. One bonus action per turn. Both Flurry and Martial Arts use a bonus action.

Say it with me folks - one bonus action per turn. I wish they'd just called them swift actions so people who played previous editions would understand that better.

[Falka]

I am planning on playing in a 5e game with my friends soon and I would like to know if the monk is worth playing from reading around I have gotten mix messages wether or not the monk is OP or not powerful enough to compete with the other classes. From the 3 different paths which is the best one, the way of the open palm was most appealing to me but which one is the strongest

The movement rules are really friendly for the Monk's playstyle, considering that he gets 2 attacks at level 1. Once you get Flurry (at level 2), you get 3 attacks!

Just saying, we have a running joke in my gaming table with a friend's Monk PC. He's called the "Kobold Slayer" since he managed to kill like 15 kobolds during a single game session.

[Yuki Akuma]

@ yuki: 4 attacks at level 2, not 3. one as standard, one from martial arts, then two from flurry of blows. it's glorious :smallbiggrin:

Nnno, I actually know what I'm talking about, thank you.

Martial Arts lets you make an extra unarmed strike as a bonus action when you attack with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon.

Flurry of Blows lets you spend 1 ki point to make two extra unarmed strikes as a bonus action when you attack with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon.


Bonus Actions
...
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.

[Hydra98]

Also I had the idea of multi classing with warlock(fey pact tome)
What would be the best distribution of levels to get the most out of both classes.
Also what race would be best for this?

[Surrealistik]

Was wondering if anyone had PEACH for this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?366644-5e-D-amp-D-Surrealistik-s-Monk-Homebrew

Feedback should be in the homebrew thread of course so this one isn't derailed.

[Yagyujubei]

Nnno, I actually know what I'm talking about, thank you.

Martial Arts lets you make an extra unarmed strike as a bonus action when you attack with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon.

Flurry of Blows lets you spend 1 ki point to make two extra unarmed strikes as a bonus action when you attack with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon.

I don't get it...you say you understand, QUOTE the ruling on bonus actions, and then still get it wrong. notice both of the things you mentioned there are bonus actions so you can choose to do one or the other. 2 attacks for free, or 3 for one Ki point, but never 4.

also to whoever said that the invisibility you get at 11 for monk isnt good please note that it's the only one in the game that doesnt require concentration. also, taking so few levels in monk SEVERLY gimps your Ki pool, and for a class that's supposed to be throwing out stunning fists you would be doing yourself a huge disservice. not to mention, getting darkness from warlock only affords you 1 use every short rest, but taking 12 levels in monk affords you 6 possible uses every long rest if thats really what you wanna use your ki for.

not to mention that level spread is just too heavy. The curve would keep you underpowered for so much of that game it would be no fun. as a shadow monk you really have to choose: do I want the crazy auto crit surprise round from rogue? or do I want devils sight/Darkness shenanigans?

[Caelic]

I don't get it...you say you understand, QUOTE the ruling on bonus actions, and then still get it wrong. notice both of the things you mentioned there are bonus actions so you can choose to do one or the other. 2 attacks for free, or 3 for one Ki point, but never 4.


Yuki's agreeing with you. Go back and reread the post. Beige claimed that it was 4 attacks, as opposed to 3, as Yuki said.

[Hydra98]

Also I had the idea of multi classing with warlock(fey pact tome)
What would be the best distribution of levels to get the most out of both classes.
Also what race would be best for this?
Bump.
also could you give m a build for it because I am new and I want to see how I should be building it.
my ideas
Patron: Archfey, If you could give me some names of different archfeys
Pact: Tome, It seems like the best one, but can be swayed if to pick another pact if it would be more beneficial
Tradition: Way of the open hand, was the coolest one without being from avatar

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't get it...you say you understand, QUOTE the ruling on bonus actions, and then still get it wrong. notice both of the things you mentioned there are bonus actions so you can choose to do one or the other. 2 attacks for free, or 3 for one Ki point, but never 4.

...Reading comprehension?

Yes, I do understand. That you only get one bonus action per round. So a level two Monk only gets up to 3 attacks per round. Which is what I said in the first place, and was 'corrected' on. So I cited the rules to defend my earlier post. Because the 'correction' was wrong.

[Yagyujubei]

...Reading comprehension?

Yes, I do understand. That you only get one bonus action per round. So a level two Monk only gets up to 3 attacks per round. Which is what I said in the first place, and was 'corrected' on. So I cited the rules to defend my earlier post. Because the 'correction' was wrong.

my b, no need to be so snippy bro.

[numerek]

I don't get it...you say you understand, QUOTE the ruling on bonus actions, and then still get it wrong. notice both of the things you mentioned there are bonus actions so you can choose to do one or the other. 2 attacks for free, or 3 for one Ki point, but never 4.

also to whoever said that the invisibility you get at 11 for monk isnt good please note that it's the only one in the game that doesnt require concentration. also, taking so few levels in monk SEVERLY gimps your Ki pool, and for a class that's supposed to be throwing out stunning fists you would be doing yourself a huge disservice. not to mention, getting darkness from warlock only affords you 1 use every short rest, but taking 12 levels in monk affords you 6 possible uses every long rest if thats really what you wanna use your ki for.

not to mention that level spread is just too heavy. The curve would keep you underpowered for so much of that game it would be no fun. as a shadow monk you really have to choose: do I want the crazy auto crit surprise round from rogue? or do I want devils sight/Darkness shenanigans?


Ok so you like the invisibility ability, that abililty + 5 movement speed bonus + 4 Ki points + d8 vs d6 + immunity to poison and disease vs 4 levels of cleric or warlock. Its up to the individual but I think from a stealth perspective which is what I was responding to, that either option is better. At will alter self is pretty powerful, devils sight is good against your own darkness and the enemies darkness + all the other spells you get + fey presence(or the other patrons abilities). The cleric trickery abilities and spells are also very good for stealth.

[Yagyujubei]

im was just pointing out that it was unique in that way, and I wonder if it can be dispelled either, since it doesn't seem to work like a spell. either way yeah it's up to the person, but like i said I havent been able to make a build that dips into rogue AND another class that wasn't really bad at most levels sadly (i really really really wish you could)

[MadBear]

im was just pointing out that it was unique in that way, and I wonder if it can be dispelled either, since it doesn't seem to work like a spell. either way yeah it's up to the person, but like i said I havent been able to make a build that dips into rogue AND another class that wasn't really bad at most levels sadly (i really really really wish you could)

I don't know a wood elven Hunter Ranger 5/ Assassin Rogue X seems like a good combo. 7 skills, 3 toolkits, twf, extra attack, colossus slayer, SAD, sneak attack, expertise, hunters mark, and auto-crit on surprise seems like a really strong/fun build to me.

as for are monks worth it. Heck yes! Avatar monks, Ninja Monks, Sensei Monks, they're flavorful, fun and completely viable with a good niche role.

[Person_Man]

My read of the Monk is that they're very Short Rest dependent. If your DM is fond of having 1-3ish encounters and then letting you take a Rest, and then its off to the next adventure location, then Monks are awesome. If your DM has giant old school dungeons with lots of encounters before you take a Rest, and then you'll probably take a Long Rest, then Monks (and Fighters) should be avoided.

It's also worth mentioning that Monks are still MAD-ish in some ways. Most other classes require 2 ability scores to be high - whatever they use for attacks (Str, Dex, or their primary casting attribute) plus Con (hit points, and Concentration if they're a caster who cares about it). Monks require 3, Dex, Con, and Wis. (As do Paladins, which require Str or Dex, Con, and Cha).

[EvilAnagram]

My read of the Monk is that they're very Short Rest dependent. If your DM is fond of having 1-3ish encounters and then letting you take a Rest, and then its off to the next adventure location, then Monks are awesome. If your DM has giant old school dungeons with lots of encounters before you take a Rest, and then you'll probably take a Long Rest, then Monks (and Fighters) should be avoided.

It's also worth mentioning that Monks are still MAD-ish in some ways. Most other classes require 2 ability scores to be high - whatever they use for attacks (Str, Dex, or their primary casting attribute) plus Con (hit points, and Concentration if they're a caster who cares about it). Monks require 3, Dex, Con, and Wis. (As do Paladins, which require Str or Dex, Con, and Cha).

Wisdom is pretty tertiary for a Monk. So few abilities actually key off of WIS that if you only have a solid DEX and CON with a +1 in WIS, you're fine.

[Shining Wrath]

OP: Play a monk. If you don't like it, have the DM arrange a fatal accident, and play something else. It's a new edition, experiment!

And no, you won't be a burden to the party. Do something hilarious like a gnome Monk with a noble background and you'll still contribute, just not as much.

[Person_Man]

Wisdom is pretty tertiary for a Monk. So few abilities actually key off of WIS that if you only have a solid DEX and CON with a +1 in WIS, you're fine.

?

I'm away from book at the moment, but if I recall correctly, Monk's AC is still dependent on Wisdom, as is the DC for all of their abilities.

Also, if you just want a mobile class that deals a lot of damage, my understanding is that you should play a Rogue, not a Monk. Monk is the mobile status effect (dependent on DC) class.