D&D 3.5 Banshee - leveled down to maybe CR 13?

[Harlot]

Hello playgrounders

I would very much like my 6 member lvl. 10 party to face a banshee.

However, she is CR 17, and is not supposed to be the BBEG, so I'd rather not annihilate the party.

Normally, I level creatures up or down by adding or subtracting 1 per level to all attacks, defenses, and damage and adding or subtracting 10 from their hit points per level.

Reading the Banshee stats, I'm not sure if that is enough. I am mostly concerned about the Wail TPK'ing the party, but chosing to not use it goes aginst the whole point of having a banshee at all.
Horrific appearance seems rather harsh too.

At this point I am making the campaign and I actually don't know what characters will be facing her. I know there'll be a psychic warrior, some caster based dragon disciple of sorts and a figher specialised in archery(!) with Hanks Energy Bow.
The rest of the characters are still unknown. So I am not sure if there'll be a cleric or anyone with turn/rebuke undead...

So how would you do it? I am aiming for CR 13.

Stats found in MM2 p30. (For some reason cannot find the build online and link to it? Not on SRD?)

As always, thanks for helping
/Harlot

[Jeff the Green]

Well, you could change the effect of the wail. Say, Will or stunned.

[Extra Anchovies]

Well, you could change the effect of the wail. Say, Will or stunned.

This is good. A fear affect could also work pretty well; maybe characters who make their saves are still shaken for one round?

[Bart]

You can just reverse "advance" her (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType).

[HammeredWharf]

The Pathfinder Banshee (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/banshee) is CR13. It can easily be used in a 3.5e game. It's also more interesting than the 3.5e version in my opinion.

[Der_DWSage]

Personally...lessee. Let's go with mythology here-a Banshee was meant to be a herald of death, not the thing that actually killed people. If you heard one, it was because a family member was slated to die soon. This works even better, because you said she's not the BBEG. Mix with a little more of the mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee), and...

Charisma Drain:Keep as is. It probably won't matter greatly.
Horrific Appearance:Add a caveat, just in case your players are weaker than expected. 'Those that bear a silver comb will be spared the banshee's gaze, as her eyes will be ever turned towards it and not them.'
Wail:Replace the Death Effect with a no-save Unluck effect, (On one saving throw they must roll 2d20 and choose the lower of the two) applicable at some point in the in-game week of the GM's choosing. A lot weaker, a lot more interesting, and sure to cause far more fear than a mere death effect. Also, far more fitting than causing death herself.

Be sure to have her washing bloody clothing/armor for maximum mythological effect.

[Harlot]

Thanks for helping.

Bart
You can just reverse "advance" her. I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean exactly? :smallredface:

But, from what I do understand, grasping the other ideas, would this work?

Banshee, lvl. adjusted to be app. CR 13
HP app. 130
initiative (still) +7
Speed (still) 80 ft. fly, good
AC 12
Attack, incorporeal touch +12 melee
Damage 1d8 19/20 + 1d4 charisma drain (still permanent?)
Saves: Fort: +4 ref.+7 will+15

Abilities, skills and feat unchanged

Charisma drain (su) DC lowered to DC22, otherwise unchanged
Horrific Apperance (su) making the fort. save DC 22, not 26, and making the loss of str., dex + cons non-permanent, like a day or maybe just 1d4 rounds. And a CAVEAT if they're very weak on fort.
Wail: Will save DC 22 (higher?) or stunned for 1d4 rounds. (maybe second missed save giving unluck effect secretly (known to the DM only))
Keeping: Uncorporeal subtype and Undead Traits

I am unsure if she is actually too weak like this, but the TPK effect is gone, and it's harder for her to hit them. Their AC's will be in the higher 20's, probably.

What'd you reckon? I am not sure if the DC's should be as low as 22 ... Originally they're all 26...

/Harlot

[Seharvepernfan]

Maybe have it so the wail is like bardic music; it's something she has to concentrate on for several rounds. Every round she wails, everybody within x feet must make fortitude saves vs. a death effect that lowers your ....charisma lets say by 1dx. Once you get to zero, you die.

Switch her touch attack to con drain/damage (maybe decrease the die), so that her touches make you more vulnerable to her wail.

[Urpriest]

IMHO, it's better in these sorts of situations to find a monster that matches your desired fluff but is lower CR. A Ghost with levels in Siren (Savage Species) (use Frightful Moan to qualify) can cover similar fluff, for instance. If you're aiming for CR 13, an Elf Ghost Bard 5/Siren 6 has the right CR, and a lot of flavorful abilities. You could switch out the Elf (and some Bard levels depending on CR) for some Fey race if you prefer that kind of origin.

[Bart]

She would lose HD, saves would be lowered, base attack lower, skills reduced, 1-2 feats removed, maybe 1-2 ability points and most important any Supernatural abilities would be easier to resist. You can make ability drain to just ability damage and a few other qualitative changes.

[hamishspence]

City of the Spider Queen (3.0 but has a 3.5 update on WOTC site) had a template version of the Banshee called "keening spirit". Good for low CR ones maybe.

[Harlot]

Again, than you for taking time to help me.

I must clarify that I am somewhat pressed for time so building her as NPC's from scratch as Urpriest and hamishpence suggest is something I'd rather avoid. That said, I agree with the suggested method (Urpriest) and I also think the keening spirit (template) makes sense. (Sadly the samle version here (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Keening_Spirit*)is CR 18. So i'd have to tweak that too, and might as well stick to the banshee then)

So as none of you have vividly protested the suggested build below, which is more or less what Bart suggested, I'll use that, maybe with another look into the (su)'s
:-)

/Harlot