Are there any good prestige classes that you can get into at lower levels than 6 or 5

[Kafana]

Not talking about any specific build, but I am wondering if there are any prestige classes that can be accessed at a level below 5 and that at the worst case don't alter the tier of the base class?

Also, no cheese.

[Urpriest]

Master Specialist is probably the best example.

[Jeff the Green]

What do you define as "cheese"? It's pretty easy to get into Mystic Theurge, Cerebremancer, and Psychic Theurge by level 4, using Illumian with Improved Sigil (Krau), and Ardent in the latter two.

[sideswipe]

survivor at level 2

technically paragon classes can be considered prestige and they can be level 1

[Hazrond]

Rainbow servant can be taken at level 2 using some sanctum spell, its actually kinda vital in builds like the Rainbow Warsnake

[sideswipe]

Rainbow servant can be taken at level 2 using some sanctum spell, its actually kinda vital in builds like the Rainbow Warsnake

im one of the mind that sanctum spell does not count..... monday tuesday casting is fine, but not "casting as long as im in my house surrounded by these particular things.....

[nedz]

Rainbow servant can be taken at level 2 using some sanctum spell, its actually kinda vital in builds like the Rainbow Warsnakeim one of the mind that sanctum spell does not count..... monday tuesday casting is fine, but not "casting as long as im in my house surrounded by these particular things.....

Also cheese — Double Gloucester in this case.

[Ruethgar]

Bloodlines open up a lot of PrC's to lower that lvl 5&6 entry for skill monkeys and humans as they raise the skill cap such that you are character level 2 with max rank of 8, hello Chameleon. That may be bordering on cheese, but I just consider it moderate OP.

[malonkey1]

Well, you can enter Mystic Theurge at level 4, but only if your DM allows you to take Alternative Source Spell (Dragon 325) and Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane). This works as follows: Get an arcane class at level 1. Precocious Apprentice gives you a single level 2 arcane slot and accompanying spell. get a divine class at level 2 or 3. Alternative source Spell allows you to prepare your Precocious Apprentice spell as if it were divine, thus giving you 2nd-level divine and arcane casting.

Alternatively, you could substitute the Precocious Apprentice for the Illumian's (Races of Destiny) Naenhoon sigils, netting you a free Heighten for the same effect. It does reduce the feat-hungriness, but it lock you into a race. Alternately, you could use Alternate Source Spell + Divine Metamagic (Complete Divine) if you can't do Precocious Apprentice or be Illumian, and you can turn/rebuke.

EDIT: I should note that Mystic Theurg isn't terribly great, but hey, it's a cool way to progress both of your spellcasting abilities without missing out on too many levels. I am partial to going (Wizard & Archivist totaling 3)/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 7.

[Jeff the Green]

Well, you can enter Mystic Theurge at level 4, but only if your DM allows you to take Alternative Source Spell (Dragon 325) and Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane). This works as follows: Get an arcane class at level 1. Precocious Apprentice gives you a single level 2 arcane slot and accompanying spell. get a divine class at level 2 or 3. Alternative source Spell allows you to prepare your Precocious Apprentice spell as if it were divine, thus giving you 2nd-level divine and arcane casting.

Alternatively, you could substitute the Precocious Apprentice for the Illumian's (Races of Destiny) Naenhoon sigils, netting you a free Heighten for the same effect. It does reduce the feat-hungriness, but it lock you into a race. Alternately, you could use Alternate Source Spell + Divine Metamagic (Complete Divine) if you can't do Precocious Apprentice or be Illumian, and you can turn/rebuke.

Or, as said, Improved Sigil Krau. When you take the feat you choose two spells you know that are always cast as though one level higher than they are. Choose one Wizard and one Cleric first level spells, and you're golden.

[bekeleven]

Or, as said, Improved Sigil Krau. When you take the feat you choose two spells you know that are always cast as though one level higher than they are. Choose one Wizard and one Cleric first level spells, and you're golden.

Specifically, you can take it at level 1, but you don't have cleric casting.

The solution is to select Endure Elements, or any other spell that's on both lists. That way when you get cleric casting it immediately applies.

Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge X.

I went over the verbiage a couple of times, the feat locks to spells explicitly, not spell lists or classes.

[Jeff the Green]

Specifically, you can take it at level 1, but you don't have cleric casting.

The solution is to select Endure Elements, or any other spell that's on both lists. That way when you get cleric casting it immediately applies.

Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge X.

I went over the verbiage a couple of times, the feat locks to spells explicitly, not spell lists or classes.

Actually, Improved Sigil (Krau) is one feat you absolutely shouldn't take at 1st. The wording is such that at 1st you choose a single spell and don't get another. If you take it at 3rd (at which point you have cleric and wizard casting) you choose two.

If you don't use that reading, you can still swap one to a cleric-only spell, since taking a level of cleric does give you access to another spell level.

You can't get into MT before 4th because of skill requirements.

[Cruiser1]

You can't get into MT before 4th because of skill requirements.
With appropriate optimization you can enter at 3rd level! Take the feat Primary Contact (City), and one skill gains +1 actual rank, in which it explicitly says that can put you over the maximum ranks normally allowed. After you take a level in Mystic Theurge or whatever other PrC, you no longer need Primary Contact to supply ranks, so can retrain it into what your build really wants for that feat slot. :smallbiggrin:

[Jeff the Green]

With appropriate optimization you can enter at 3rd level! Take the feat Primary Contact (City), and one skill gains +1 actual rank, in which it explicitly says that can put you over the maximum ranks normally allowed. After you take a level in Mystic Theurge or whatever other PrC, you no longer need Primary Contact to supply ranks, so can retrain it into what your build really wants for that feat slot. :smallbiggrin:

That would certainly help... if MT didn't require two skills at 6 ranks.

Edit:
Moreover, that only helps if you could suddenly gain a feat at 2nd level. Technically possible through retraining, but I'm pretty sure that counts as cheese.

[animewatcha]

Well, you can enter Mystic Theurge at level 4, but only if your DM allows you to take Alternative Source Spell (Dragon 325) and Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane). This works as follows: Get an arcane class at level 1. Precocious Apprentice gives you a single level 2 arcane slot and accompanying spell. get a divine class at level 2 or 3. Alternative source Spell allows you to prepare your Precocious Apprentice spell as if it were divine, thus giving you 2nd-level divine and arcane casting.

Alternatively, you could substitute the Precocious Apprentice for the Illumian's (Races of Destiny) Naenhoon sigils, netting you a free Heighten for the same effect. It does reduce the feat-hungriness, but it lock you into a race. Alternately, you could use Alternate Source Spell + Divine Metamagic (Complete Divine) if you can't do Precocious Apprentice or be Illumian, and you can turn/rebuke.

EDIT: I should note that Mystic Theurg isn't terribly great, but hey, it's a cool way to progress both of your spellcasting abilities without missing out on too many levels. I am partial to going (Wizard & Archivist totaling 3)/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 7.

How would you be getting the trackless step class feature?

[Jeff the Green]

How would you be getting the trackless step class feature?

Allegedly you can get it by being a bamboo spirit folk. Since that isn't a class ability, I don't buy it.

[Cruiser1]

That would certainly help... if MT didn't require two skills at 6 ranks.
You can take the Primary Contact feat more than once. :smallsmile: The prerequisite feat Favored explicitly says it can be taken multiple times for different organizations. That means 4 feats are temporarily needed for Mystic Theurge, but a human with Flaws (or anybody who employs Chaos Shuffling cheese) can do it.


Moreover, that only helps if you could suddenly gain a feat at 2nd level.
Primary Contact grants a "bonus rank". It's unclear what the mechanics details of a bonus rank are. It could just be a rank like any other, that must be applied to a particular skill, and can exceed the limit at that time only. Or it could be like an enhancement bonus to AC, and gets applied after standard level up ranks, which means it doesn't matter when you take the feat because the bonus rank is applied last.

[nolongerchaos]

Changlings can get into Warshaper at level 5 via 4 levels in any full BAB class(es)

[Hazrond]

Changlings can get into Warshaper at level 5 via 4 levels in any full BAB class(es)

As can one of my personal favorites the Tibbit (DragonComp)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

All the Racial Paragon Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) from UA are prestige classes and can be taken at 1st level, since their only prerequisite is race.

Bloodline Levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) also from UA increase your max skill ranks and several other things without increasing your character level. A Wizard 1/ Bloodline 3/ Archivist 1 is a 2nd level character.

[Troacctid]

You can take the Primary Contact feat more than once.

No you can't.


Special: This feat cannot be taken more than once.

[Silva Stormrage]

Master of Shrouds is a fun build it requires a will saving throw of +5 so cleric 2/any class with a good will save 1 can get in. You do need to burn a couple feats but it is pretty effective.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3310.0

[gorfnab]

Thief of Life (FoE) can be entered at level 2 by taking one level of UA Generic Expert.

[Necroticplague]

You can qualify for Rainbow Servant at level 1, going into the class at 2nd level, by taking Eldritch Corruption. Lets you heighten a spell by two levels by inflicting some CON damage. Thus, if you can cast a 1st level spell, you can use EC to make it third level.

[Jeff the Green]

Oh, I forgot. Ritz ban and I each came. Up with a different way to enter Walker in the Waste at level 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?274996-Entering-Walker-in-the-Waste-at-level-2).

[Undercroft]

I think you can enter anima mage (from tome of magic) at level 4 without cheesing due to how the bind vestige feats work. Amusingly the class advances the binding from those feats as if you were a binder (which probably can be considered cheesy).

[Jeff the Green]

I think you can enter anima mage (from tome of magic) at level 4 without cheesing due to how the bind vestige feats work. Amusingly the class advances the binding from those feats as if you were a binder (which probably can be considered cheesy).

You can get in at level 5 trivially, 3 with a bit of stretching, and 2 with some cheese.

For fifth you just need Wizard 3/Binder 1 with improved Binding. For 3rd you need Illumian Wizard 1/Binder 1. And for Second you need Wizard 1 with early entry cheese of your choice and the binding feats.

[JBarca]

Bloodline Levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) also from UA increase your max skill ranks and several other things without increasing your character level. A Wizard 1/ Bloodline 3/ Archivist 1 is a 2nd level character.

Are you sure?

Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels...



It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks

I always thought, based on these, that Bloodlines counted as levels, they just don't work in the exact same way as class levels (which might be what you're referencing, I think?).

Unless I'm missing something obvious?

[Troacctid]

Bloodline levels are really poorly written but basically work like LA.

[Callin]

Thief of Life (FoE) can be entered at level 2 by taking one level of UA Generic Expert.

you can do it with Warrior and Spellcaster as well.

[bekeleven]

Unless I'm missing something obvious?
Your claim is that the thing that says it counts as a normal level for purposes of max skill ranks doesn't increase max skill ranks?

Are you saying that normal levels don't increase max skill ranks?

[GreenETC]

You can also get into Church Inquisitor at level 4 without any cheese by just taking 3 levels in Cleric.

[JBarca]

Your claim is that the thing that says it counts as a normal level for purposes of max skill ranks doesn't increase max skill ranks?

Are you saying that normal levels don't increase max skill ranks?

I'm not. I'm saying that Bloodlines, being normal levels, do increase max skill ranks, as per the text. I was merely saying that I disagreed with Biffoniacus_Furiou saying that they don't count as levels at all. Since the text states that function as normal levels for several things, I assumed that they functioned as normal levels for those things.

Although, after looking at the text again, I will concede that I don't really see anywhere that states they do count as normal levels, so they probably don't. But I also don't see, then, how they function at all. Are they free? Are they, as Troacctid said, exactly like LA (taking up a "level," but can be bought off)?

[strangebloke]

Church Inquisitor and Ordained Champion can be started at level 4 and 5 respectively

Any PRC that requires you to have low-level casting can be got into early by means of illumian sigils and the like. Bone Knight, Mystic Theurge, etc.

Of course, the more cheese you use, the more options you have. Dragonwrought kobolds anyone?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Are you sure?

I always thought, based on these, that Bloodlines counted as levels, they just don't work in the exact same way as class levels (which might be what you're referencing, I think?).

Unless I'm missing something obvious?


I'm not. I'm saying that Bloodlines, being normal levels, do increase max skill ranks, as per the text. I was merely saying that I disagreed with Biffoniacus_Furiou saying that they don't count as levels at all. Since the text states that function as normal levels for several things, I assumed that they functioned as normal levels for those things.

Although, after looking at the text again, I will concede that I don't really see anywhere that states they do count as normal levels, so they probably don't. But I also don't see, then, how they function at all. Are they free? Are they, as Troacctid said, exactly like LA (taking up a "level," but can be bought off)?

You missed one important part:


Over the course of his career, a character with a bloodline becomes more powerful than one without a bloodline. Because the power gain is gradual over a span of twenty levels, a static level adjustment doesn't truly reflect this difference. instead, a bloodline character must take one or more levels of "bloodline" at various points in his career, as noted on Table: Bloodline Levels. Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below).

What you cited about adding bloodline levels to class levels for level-dependent class features and increasing max skill ranks is the exception to the above. They don't increase your character level at all, but they act like they do in those two ways, but those are the only two ways that they act like they've increased your character level. Anything else that counts character level, including experience rewards and experience needed to level up, completely ignores your bloodline levels.

[Yael]

For a low-powered game, you can get into Dread Witch at level 3rd.