PDA

View Full Version : DM Help Collecting Evidence and Colossal Backfires



AstralFire
2014-08-31, 08:00 AM
So here's the breakdown:

Backstory:
My PCs are currently assisting in a rebellion against the Caliph, having rallied all but one of the Sultans beneath him into action. As they are legendary heroes (level 11+, D&D 3.x) they've been going from region to region to secure the more vulnerable capitals in anticipation of a final march on the Caliphate's capital. There's one problem: they've been kind of lethal. The very first Sultan they met, Sultan Mirros, is dead indirectly because of them. (Long story short, one of my players managed to set half of the palace district into a lethal firestorm despite multiple IC warnings, Sultan decided to take the fall for it since he was old and he needed his people to believe in the heroes, so he got himself executed.)

It's been a few weeks in-game since then, they helped some other places, and now they're dealing with a relative of his in another city. And while the first Sultan was a good guy, his daughter ain't, she's pretty evil. The city prospers well under her reign, but prisoners who commit any severe crime are mind controlled to work to death in the mines that make more mind control amplifying crystals. And she has anyone who can do magic kidnapped at a young age and conscripted into a private force. (It's a rare talent on this continent.)

The players just took the mine back from the Caliph's forces, cutting the Caliph's supply of the same crystals off. But they don't want to hand it over to the Sultana, they want to find a way to force her to shut down the mines and the forced conscription program. The players (rightly) suspect that this plan has a significant error chance, so in case somehow she ends up dead when she disagrees and they just blow up the mine, they want to collect proof of what she was doing to show the other Sultans. The idea is that collecting evidence will allow them to demonstrate that she was really bad and needed to be taken out and they aren't just a roving band of murderhobos who kill two out of three government executives they interact with.

My Issues:
- I never want my players to feel like their actions don't matter; even if they're up against odds that are logically insurmountable, I like to at least change the dressing on the outcome, if not the major effect, and I try to avoid insurmountable odds when possible.
- At the same time, some of my players give up hope pretty quick when their own actions end up backfiring, even though many more times than not, they've succeeded.
- Some of the players/PCs think that this is a bad idea. The problem is that the self-appointed party leader is a paladin who doesn't. (Before you ask: I've explicitly made clear that he is allowed to suffer evil to live or even adventure with him as long as he's making the best of a bad situation. I don't like trolling paladins, so falling isn't an issue here.)
- I have no idea what kind of evidence they could collect that a fairly advanced society (~19th century Ottoman Empire plus moderate magepunk - skyships, etc.) wouldn't be aware adventurers of their capability could reasonably fake. I mean, decayed corpses in rags with a pickaxe and manacles is pretty chilling as a dungeon backdrop, but without Speak With Dead - which is going to be relatively rare and therefore take weeks to verify across an entire continent, with all the Sultans sending forensics to verify - that's not all that compelling.
- Regardless of evidence, the PCs are at serious risk of destabilizing their coalition with this. Of the Sultans and Sultanas in their coalition:

- Sultana Zadira is the successor of the first Sultan I described, who looked up to the guy. When the party tried to interrupt the execution as hotblooded heroes, she felt she had to personally chop off his head to fulfill his wishes. She therefore hates the party for forcing her to kill her own mentor, though is willing to put up with them as long as she thinks they are furthering the rebellion more than not.
- Sultan Tybian is the one Sultan they've directly helped without something bad happening to him. He's scared, impressionable, and young, too. This also means he has no influence.
- Grand Mufti Doren is a moralistic revolutionary who just overthrew her local Sultan for being in collaboration with the Mad Caliph. She already makes the other Sultans nervous. She will likely agree with the PCs. That won't help.
- Sultana Akbaresha is a polite, friendly, political backstabber who does whatever is most politically expedient. She's on the leans-evil part of Neutral, and is roughly modeled after a ruthless but pleasant CEO. Whatever makes her region prosperous and therefore keeps her rich is great. The party looking like they'll just get rid of anyone who doesn't match their morals worries her.
- Sultan Parum reportedly (on the PCs' own report) got killed by heroic sacrifice when the party wizard teleported to the castle he and the Caliph share to try and diplomacy with the Caliph.
- Sultan Rokan has the biggest and best equipped military force. He also was the most reluctant to join the coalition in the first place, respecting the rule of law as a matter of tradition most of all.
- Sultana Huusdaki is Mirros' daughter, and the one who runs these mines.
-

TL;DR:
I have no idea what kind of evidence they should collect, how much warning I should give that this is a very bad idea, whether I should let it go through, or what to do if this entire civil war collapses on the party right then. They've met enough honorable and powerful people in the Caliph's army that they could conceivably form a third side, but I think several players and PCs would be too emotionally fatigued to enjoy continuing if their current side just immediately crumbles after all the effort they've spent to get it together.

Kol Korran
2014-08-31, 02:39 PM
Ok, I'm not sure I understood exactly the setting, but here are some ideas. We can discuss them and find what might work.

Evidence
1) Key personal: True, a dead body requires a "speak with dead spell", but a live body does not. What if the party manage to kidnap any of the followings: The head of the mines, the chief engineer/ mage responsible for designing the crystals/ someone important in either kidnapping mages for the special forces, or someone responsible for training/ indoctrinating them? A trusted adviser for the evil mind controlling Sultana?

The different sultans/ rulers can send their own trusted adviser/ confidants/ spy masters to interrogate the captives, and find out the truth.

Another angle on the people is to rescue someone important to any of the sultans, that may have gone missing: A very talented mage/ adviser, a family member (That may be kept by the evil sultana as guarantee for "cooperation") or maybe even other spy that were sent and captured?

Releasing any of these from slavery, and/ or from mental control could go a long way to reveal the Sultana's schemes.

2) Designs and plans: The Party might find elaborate designs for the mind control devices, or some upgrade of them (Area control? Distant control? Control of very strong minded people, such as the other sultans?). They might also uncover vast plans and schemes of domination of the Sultana, maybe of ways to blackmail/ control/ take greater hold of the empire by means the others won't agree upon. The idea is that the plans should be complex enough, with enough sensitive details the PCs are unlikely to know by themselves, and perhaps with some personal knowledge only the high ups in the state (Such as Sultans) may know, to grant extra credibility to the PCs plans. Plus, if you make the plans threatening enough to other Sultans, ESPECIALLY the more problematic to recruit sultans, this has the added bonus of increasing those Sultans cooperation, and increasing the chance of forming an alliance.

3) Trick the Sultana or a trusted aid: This will probably work only if the players watched enough spy and "pulling a job" movies. The idea is that the PCs get some representative from one or more of the other areas to witness the Sultana or an aid admit/ blurt/ trip their tongue due to some ruse or scheme the party make (Such as suggesting to help further her plans or such). This requires a great deal of finesse, and will easily backfire if not handled carefully. However, this probably has the coolest style, and can be achieved quite quickly, with minimal bloodshed.

You can either suggest these to the players (In the game, or OOC), plant enough clues for possibilities and have them come up with plans, or something involving the above.

Will these do? You sound like a very involved and dedicated DM, With some very intriguing story for the game. I hope I can help. :smallwink:

AstralFire
2014-08-31, 04:47 PM
I think that's a really good idea, and I know just the NPC to use, too. Unveiling some sort of secret plot that Sultana Huusdaki is behind - in this case, I think something more mundane, like stealing major resources from a competing city - would go a long way. I love heists, but I don't think my party's coordinated enough for one. This has been so very helpful, I appreciate it. :)

veti
2014-08-31, 06:52 PM
If you forget about all the magical elements, just imagine the bad guy is enslaving people and working them to death (and this is generally considered unacceptable): what sort of evidence would the players be able to collect then?

Witness statements. Sworn and authenticated by people the other sultans would trust. (There must be such people, otherwise how do they get any information at all?)

However, from what you've written about their "coalition", they're doomed. Fully half of their "allies" actively hate them. The best thing the PCs can do is abandon the political effort to people like Doren and Rokan, who are better placed and qualified for that sort of work, and begin acting as a low-profile hit squad to take out major enemy assets and threats.