How difficult have you found Horde of the dragon queen? How large shoudl the party be

[CyberThread]

I have the book now, and I am seeing some of you tell horror stories.


How many players should I accept, if I start this up on the internet instead of locally? Does it fee like a 4 person adventure or something that needs more?

[Falka]

The group should be at least composed of 5 PCs and it's really unfriendly for unorthodox parties. Not having heals is downright suicide in Chapter 1.

It gets better in the following Chapters since PCs begin to grow a little bit, but comparatively speaking, the first sessions are certainly the hardest for them.

[TheSethGrey]

I have the book now, and I am seeing some of you tell horror stories.


How many players should I accept, if I start this up on the internet instead of locally? Does it fee like a 4 person adventure or something that needs more?

I am currently running a table at my FLGS, and my table got TPKed on the first encounter, there were 4 of them.

[MustacheFart]

My recommendation is the following:

1) Have a well rounded party

2) Encourage players to utilize multiple attack options such as two weapon fighting. From what I've experienced, HITTING is absolutely critical at level 1 in the first chapter. Plenty of weak guys who can gang up and be very deadly are thrown at you. You want to hit them as much as possible. Damage is less of an issue as they're squishy.

3) Avoid characters that are lawful to the point they won't do anything that would be considered dishonorable. Be shady, think outside the box, don't be afraid to sacrifice a few good people (npcs) to get it done. A stick in the mud party will have a lot of difficulty in the first chapter.

[Callin]

That makes me groan a bit.. our DM is making us all be "good" characters. Cus he dont want us joining the bad guys in the middle of a dungeon LOL.

[TheSethGrey]

I have the book now, and I am seeing some of you tell horror stories.


How many players should I accept, if I start this up on the internet instead of locally? Does it fee like a 4 person adventure or something that needs more?

Something I forgot to add is that healing is scare at level 1, you need a class that heals or a lot of healing potions, expect a PC to die at some point, it can happen. There are ways to bring PCs back, if you are trying to follow AL rules then their factions can rezz them.

[pwykersotz]

That makes me groan a bit.. our DM is making us all be "good" characters. Cus he dont want us joining the bad guys in the middle of a dungeon LOL.

I don't see why this should ever be a concern. The social contract of game is that you actually play the game, not come up with ways to invalidate it.

"You join the cult. That's...great, I guess. Your character achieve their dreams. They live happily ever after. Now roll some new characters that will actually play the adventure."

Not that I'm against sandbox style play, but if you're running a module, there's limited options by definition.

[Shadow]

I don't see why this should ever be a concern. The social contract of game is that you actually play the game, not come up with ways to invalidate it.

"You join the cult. That's...great, I guess. Your character achieve their dreams. They live happily ever after. Now roll some new characters that will actually play the adventure."

Not that I'm against sandbox style play, but if you're running a module, there's limited options by definition.

THIS. A thousand times, THIS!

[Jakinbandw]

chapter 1 I felt that we were always one bad roll away from death.

Chapter 2 we had a bad Deception roll, and then we ended up missing the entire chapter because of that bad roll. Ironically the only person who was proficient with Deception failed their roll at the start of chapter 2. This means however that now we are going to be under leveled for the rest of the campaign.

We have a paladin, bard, rouge and warrior.

[Dark Tira]

Just started this last night. One of our players was running late so for the first 2 encounters we 3-manned it and it was tough. I was running a human fighter with the heavy armor master feat and had a cleric to heal me and I and the cleric were still knocked unconscious in the 3rd encounter. I'm not sure exactly where we are in the adventure flow, but it seems we missed a lot of opportunities by having to take a long rest. Recommendation: Don't 3-man, 4-man will probably still be very tough even with a decent party.

[blelliot]

I can honestly say our party (elf hunter ranger, human druid of the earth, half elf wild magic sorcerer, dragonborn paladin of vengeance, dwarven life cleric) had a challenging time, but it was fun to play through chapter one. We had a fun time with the blue dragon (turns out the ranger and he have some past enmity, yay for us lol) but were able to get the dragon to retreat. The cultists and kobolds were fun to kick around. The half dragon challenge was answered by the paladin. The pally got dropped in the first round but then rolled a nat 20 on his death save and got back up. He got advantage on the next attack. He rolled well, but then got knocked back down. On chapter two, we decided to sneak into the canyon camp by using a disguise kit to make us look more mercenary type (mainly making tthe gold dragonborn look red :-)) so that's where we have left off. We will find out if it works in a couple days :-)
All in all, it has been challenging, but we have made it through without a single party member death.

[akaddk]

Two things.

1) Cautious play is always the smart way, no matter what the party make-up is or the adventure that you're playing through.

2) The DMG Basics PDF gives rules for adjusting the difficulty so I see no reason why you would constrain yourself by party size or composition.

Personally, I think people are overstating things. If you're dumb and charge into everything, you're going to get a lot of PC death. But smart play makes the combats relatively easy. The only times it's really challenging are when you have multiple encounters in a row or if you get some unlucky rolls or the DM gets lucky rolls.

I would allow the PC's to use their starting gold to buy potions of healing. I'd also give them maximum starting gold for their class.

[Zweisteine]

I played in a 4.5-man party with no difficulty through the frst bits of the adventure (to the keep).

The only bad things happened to the one character build seemingly to attract bad things, a fighter with 9 HP and 9 AC, who is our main melee fighter, by virtue of being the only one. The rest of the party is a bard (he covers heals), a wizard, a rogue (archer), and a warlock (me, another sniper).

[Muenster Man]

The only bad things happened to the one character build seemingly to attract bad things, a fighter with 9 HP and 9 AC, who is our main melee fighter

What? How the heck do you have a fighter with 9 HP and 9 AC? Did the fighter just dump everything in Strength and a mental stat, then proceeded to convert all equipment into cash so they could lose it in a Ponzi scheme?

Taking a Con penalty and not focusing on ranged combat is suicide. Taking a penalty in Dex and not wearing armor is also suicide. With those two powers combined, I'm convinced this is a joke character

[Dark Tira]

What? How the heck do you have a fighter with 9 HP and 9 AC? Did the fighter just dump everything in Strength and a mental stat, then proceeded to convert all equipment into cash so they could lose it in a Ponzi scheme?

Taking a Con penalty and not focusing on ranged combat is suicide. Taking a penalty in Dex and not wearing armor is also suicide. With those two powers combined, I'm convinced this is a joke character

If the ability scores were rolled I'd think that he had some bad luck and is trying to suicide his character so he can make a new one.

[Jakinbandw]

Two things.

1) Cautious play is always the smart way, no matter what the party make-up is or the adventure that you're playing through.

2) The DMG Basics PDF gives rules for adjusting the difficulty so I see no reason why you would constrain yourself by party size or composition.

Personally, I think people are overstating things. If you're dumb and charge into everything, you're going to get a lot of PC death. But smart play makes the combats relatively easy. The only times it's really challenging are when you have multiple encounters in a row or if you get some unlucky rolls or the DM gets lucky rolls.

I would allow the PC's to use their starting gold to buy potions of healing. I'd also give them maximum starting gold for their class.

Second chapter every character has to pass a deception check. One failure and they get dragged before the Commander they likely fought in the duel. If they didn't fight him they get a second deception check, if they fail that they become prisoners and miss out on 90% of the content and xp. If they did duel the commander they auto get sentenced to death the next morning again missing 90% of the content, assuming they manage to escape the ropes binding them which require more skill checks. If the party stops and doesn't go in they pretty much lose all the XP and don't complete any quests and the module doesn't happen.

I'm curious how you deal with this the smart way as all it requires (probably as most parties would fight the commander) a single failure on a deception check.

[Shadow]

I'm curious how you deal with this the smart way as all it requires (probably as most parties would fight the commander) a single failure on a deception check.

PHB page 175

G r o u p C h e c k s
When a number of individuals are trying to accomplish
something as a group, the DM might ask for a group
ability check. In such a situation, the characters w ho are
skilled at a particular task help cover those w ho aren't.
To make a group ability check, everyone in the group
makes the ability check. If at least half the group
succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise,
the group fails.
Group checks don’t come up very often, and they’re
most useful when all the characters succeed or
fail as a group. For example, when adventurers are
navigating a swamp, the DM might call for a group
Wisdom (Survival) check to see if the characters can
avoid the quicksand, sinkholes, and other natural
hazards o f the environment. If at least half the group
succeeds, the successful characters are able to guide
their companions out o f danger. Otherwise, the group
stumbles into one o f these hazards.

Works great for keeping the big, lumbering fighter in chain mail hidden and ready for an ambush, as well as many other uses.

[TheSethGrey]

PHB page 175

G r o u p C h e c k s
When a number of individuals are trying to accomplish
something as a group, the DM might ask for a group
ability check. In such a situation, the characters w ho are
skilled at a particular task help cover those w ho aren't.
To make a group ability check, everyone in the group
makes the ability check. If at least half the group
succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise,
the group fails.
Group checks don’t come up very often, and they’re
most useful when all the characters succeed or
fail as a group. For example, when adventurers are
navigating a swamp, the DM might call for a group
Wisdom (Survival) check to see if the characters can
avoid the quicksand, sinkholes, and other natural
hazards o f the environment. If at least half the group
succeeds, the successful characters are able to guide
their companions out o f danger. Otherwise, the group
stumbles into one o f these hazards.

Works great for keeping the big, lumbering fighter in chain mail hidden and ready for an ambush, as well as many other uses.

If characters lie to Mondath—claiming they are new
recruits and this is all a mistake, for example, or that
they are studying the cult before deciding whether
to join—then compare their Charisma (Deception)
checks to Mondath’s Wisdom check to determine
whether she believes them. You can allow advantage
or disadvantage on the roll when someone’s lies are
especially plausible or implausible. Match die rolls
individually for every character. Those who Mondath
believes are set free, but watched and stopped if they
try to leave the camp. Those who Mondath does not
believe are sentenced to die as above

The adventure specifically says that won't work here, granted you'r the DM, you can just wave your hand and have it work that way I suppose.

[Zweisteine]

What? How the heck do you have a fighter with 9 HP and 9 AC? Did the fighter just dump everything in Strength and a mental stat, then proceeded to convert all equipment into cash so they could lose it in a Ponzi scheme?

Taking a Con penalty and not focusing on ranged combat is suicide. Taking a penalty in Dex and not wearing armor is also suicide. With those two powers combined, I'm convinced this is a joke character
It's not a joke character, as far as I can tell, and not a suicide character. The player had some concept in mind, and seems to have mistaken the low ability scores for roleplaying statistics. He's also generally unwilling to share I formation about his character with anyone, until we pointed out that you can't keep secrets from the DM.
Starting today, I have made it my personal mission to convince this player to change character. Especially because the Advwnturer's League is more of a campaign, it seems, so he'll be stuck with the character if he goes too far.

[hachface]

If characters lie to Mondath—claiming they are new
recruits and this is all a mistake, for example, or that
they are studying the cult before deciding whether
to join—then compare their Charisma (Deception)
checks to Mondath’s Wisdom check to determine
whether she believes them. You can allow advantage
or disadvantage on the roll when someone’s lies are
especially plausible or implausible. Match die rolls
individually for every character. Those who Mondath
believes are set free, but watched and stopped if they
try to leave the camp. Those who Mondath does not
believe are sentenced to die as above

The adventure specifically says that won't work here, granted your the DM, you can just wave your hand and have it work that way I suppose.


Good god that is terrible adventure writing.

[TheSethGrey]

Good god that is terrible adventure writing.

What's bad about it? Forgive me, but i'm not skilled at adventure writing, so could you explain how it's bad?

[akaddk]

Good god that is terrible adventure writing.

Seth is selectively quoting out of context to prove a point. If you look at the rest of the adventure, this is only one possible scenario and the PC's have plenty of chance to escape or try other things if they fail and are sentenced to death.

[Grynning]

Starting today, I have made it my personal mission to convince this player to change character.

You probably won't need to, since unless the DM is specifically favoring him by not ever having the bad guys attack him, he will die very quickly in combat. The group isn't under any obligation to resurrect him.

[Jakinbandw]

Seth is selectively quoting out of context to prove a point. If you look at the rest of the adventure, this is only one possible scenario and the PC's have plenty of chance to escape or try other things if they fail and are sentenced to death.

Really? Because at the end of the session (Where we did escape) The GM started reading off what we got experience for. Including 25xp per piece of info we got out of 12(None because we couldn't do any exploring), not raising an alarm 100 (we also didn't get because of bad rolls), and not making anyone suspicious 100 (also didn't get). Also the chapter took only an hour from start to finish.

Also I suspect that it is entirely possible to blow the rolls to get your hands free of the ropes considering it is a skill check. And then as far as I can tell you die.

[MustacheFart]

Really? Because at the end of the session (Where we did escape) The GM started reading off what we got experience for. Including 25xp per piece of info we got out of 12(None because we couldn't do any exploring), not raising an alarm 100 (we also didn't get because of bad rolls), and not making anyone suspicious 100 (also didn't get). Also the chapter took only an hour from start to finish.

Also I suspect that it is entirely possible to blow the rolls to get your hands free of the ropes considering it is a skill check. And then as far as I can tell you die.

Yeah, that sounds like poor writing to me.

Here's a question, what if I am playing a character with honor who refuses to lie? Are you telling me I completely F over the party and the adventure because I won't lie. If that's the case, I stand by my opinion that this adventure is for unscrupulous loose-fitted "good" characters.

[Beige]

played it once at a pick up - my experience is its more cheap than hard. the first chapter has so many things that will kill you that are hard to prepare for its not even funny.if your ucky enough not to get hit with them, it gets better for chapter 2 onwards.

as to the issue of Mondath and the group deception check, a group check would not work there because your not working as a group He interrogates each PC individually, so you can't work together for group deception

[hawklost]

Really? Because at the end of the session (Where we did escape) The GM started reading off what we got experience for. Including 25xp per piece of info we got out of 12(None because we couldn't do any exploring), not raising an alarm 100 (we also didn't get because of bad rolls), and not making anyone suspicious 100 (also didn't get). Also the chapter took only an hour from start to finish.

Also I suspect that it is entirely possible to blow the rolls to get your hands free of the ropes considering it is a skill check. And then as far as I can tell you die.

And if your DM is using the Milestone experience rule that this adventure gives you, you are lvl 3, regardless of what you have or have not accomplished (as long as you made it back).

EDIT: The Adventure handles not being able to escape from the ropes by giving them something that automatically lets them escape if they fail on their own.


Yeah, that sounds like poor writing to me.

Here's a question, what if I am playing a character with honor who refuses to lie? Are you telling me I completely F over the party and the adventure because I won't lie. If that's the case, I stand by my opinion that this adventure is for unscrupulous loose-fitted "good" characters.

If you are playing a character who refuses to lie, then you don't get experience for this part of the adventure without the milestone rules. Or you could let your party go ahead and wait for them, or try to sneak through yourself instead of lying, it is possible if extremely hard to do.

As for claiming this adventure (and DnD as a whole effectively) defining good as 'loose-fitted "good"', why yes yes it does. Good is a large catagory of people in DnD, good means you go out of your way to help those in need and you help the weak. It does not directly define how you go about that other than you are not trying to harm the weak to help them. That means a Good character can lie, cheat, steal, kill or any number of other effects and still be defined as good. Also on the reverse side, Evil characters can help the weak, save babies, heal the wounded and any other thing that you might call 'good'. It all depends on the motivation behind it as to if you are good or evil.

[MustacheFart]

If you are playing a character who refuses to lie, then you don't get experience for this part of the adventure without the milestone rules. Or you could let your party go ahead and wait for them, or try to sneak through yourself instead of lying, it is possible if extremely hard to do.

So basically, lie or lose out. Seems pretty short sighted.



As for claiming this adventure (and DnD as a whole effectively) defining good as 'loose-fitted "good"', why yes yes it does. Good is a large catagory of people in DnD, good means you go out of your way to help those in need and you help the weak. It does not directly define how you go about that other than you are not trying to harm the weak to help them. That means a Good character can lie, cheat, steal, kill or any number of other effects and still be defined as good. Also on the reverse side, Evil characters can help the weak, save babies, heal the wounded and any other thing that you might call 'good'. It all depends on the motivation behind it as to if you are good or evil.

First, I wasn't speaking of DnD as a whole, I was purely speaking of the encounter which is what I said. Second, what I was trying to say is that you must play one of these good characters that is willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill, etc... in order to succeed. I agree that the alignment "Good" is broad. Once again, you're just stating the obvious and nothing at all contradictory to what I said.

To break it down, this broad "good" also includes those not willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill etc... and you cannot play one in the module without grossly large adverse results.

[hawklost]

So basically, lie or lose out. Seems pretty short sighted.




First, I wasn't speaking of DnD as a whole, I was purely speaking of the encounter which is what I said. Second, what I was trying to say is that you must play one of these good characters that is willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill, etc... in order to succeed. I agree that the alignment "Good" is broad. Once again, you're just stating the obvious and nothing at all contradictory to what I said.

To break it down, this broad "good" also includes those not willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill etc... and you cannot play one in the module without grossly large adverse results.

Actually you can play your non-lying character without grossly losing out in the entire adventure. You are over dramatizing the consequences so that you can feel right about it.

The part of the adventure (and remember this is only a single part of the adventure) allows the characters to walk into the Camp with a very low DC cha check, no lying involved, just pretend you are there for a reason and people don't ask. A Single character has a -x to the check if they fit a very specific circumstance.. So you have over a 50% chance by just walking in even with your disadvantage of not being caught. Note that the section also says you are not necessarily noticed immediately but when it would be most dramatic (meaning you could get most of your questions done first if the DM wants you too). If you try it differently, the DC increases due to circumstances written in the adventure part.

Nothing in the Adventure part says you must lie or cheat or do anything like that to get in and get answers.

Now, if you just must play a character who feels he has to walk up to the camp and announce his intentions to defeat all evil and demands people pay attention to him, then you are intentionally trying to cause problems and therefore yes, you get screwed over in this very single part of the adventure.

Now, if you are defining lying as anything that could be construed as a falsehood (walking into the camp pretending (without saying anything) to be someone who is supposed to be there) then you again, are trying to make it impossible for this section to be played out and yes, you will be captured and you will have to escape and you will miss out on the experience you would have gotten by being sneaky. It is no different than someone who plays a character who refuses to fight humans losing out on any XP for fights that involve only humans.

Note, you can also look at the camp, say screw it and head back to town. You also lose out on the XP from the encounter because you walked away from it. Otherwise, you get XP from the encounter for just being there and attempting it, but you did not succeed in all the goals so you only get the base XP instead of the bonus XP.

EDIT: Removed specific references to exact DC or exact changes of DC.

[SaintRidley]

Well, I'm going to start playing it shortly. Group of 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369723-Hoard-of-the-Dragon-Queen-IC&p=18040684): Paladin, Sorcerer, Rogue, Barbarian.

How screwed do you think we are?

Not looking for tricks or spoilers - I want to see just what we can do.

[hawklost]

Well, I'm going to start playing it shortly. Group of 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369723-Hoard-of-the-Dragon-Queen-IC&p=18040684): Paladin, Sorcerer, Rogue, Barbarian.

How screwed do you think we are?

Not looking for tricks or spoilers - I want to see just what we can do.

You are going to be heavily at the mercy of RNG for the first section. If you don't take too much damage, you will be able to get through a lot of the encounters without terribly much trouble, but if you take a decent bit of damage, you will have forgo some of them.

The Second section depends again, as long as you try to play it smart and not think you are in 3e/4e and charge into everything ready for battle (sometimes actually trying to avoid battle is best) you will do alright, and you probably won't die.

3rd section starts getting more typical in how it is played out for DnD and you should feel at home in that part.

Note: If you are playing the extreme version of any of those classes you are going to be in pain
Extreme Barbarian: "Me not pay much attention, me just attack enemies!"
Extreme Paladin: "I will never tell a lie or falsehood and if I see any evil (even the smallest), I will charge it to punish the evildoer without thinking of consequences"
Extreme Rogue: "If I am not sneaking around killing things from the shadows, I am not happy. I must always try to steal from people when they are not looking"
Extreme Sorcerer: "Destroy it all with FIRE! Its a locked Door? FIRE! Its an NPC in the way? FIRE! The meat has been overcooked? I can fix that with... FIRE!"

(I am just using mocking ways to show what is extreme and do not claim these are the only way to play a class with extremism.)

[Callin]

Ok got a friend who is DMing this and is being a butt about telling us the new Background. Can someone help me out so I can decide if I want to take it?

[MustacheFart]

A Single character has a -x to the check if they fit a very specific circumstance..

What's the circumstance?


Nothing in the Adventure part says you must lie or cheat or do anything like that to get in and get answers.

Now, if you just must play a character who feels he has to walk up to the camp and announce his intentions to defeat all evil and demands people pay attention to him, then you are intentionally trying to cause problems and therefore yes, you get screwed over in this very single part of the adventure.

Agreed. A player who walks right up to the enemy stronghold and announces himself either has a deathwish or is incredibly powerful. Just because you don't want to lie or take part in subterfuge doesn't mean the alternative is walk right up announcing yourself.


You are over dramatizing the consequences so that you can feel right about it.

Not at all. I don't need to over dramatize it to feel right. You've already proven me right. You have to play a certain way or you lose out on a part of an adventure. A part of an adventure is significant (it's not merely a single encounter). That's just wrong.


Now, if you are defining lying as anything that could be construed as a falsehood (walking into the camp pretending (without saying anything) to be someone who is supposed to be there) then you again, are trying to make it impossible for this section to be played out

I disagree and actually find it a little bit insulting that you would declare a player/character not wanting to use subterfuge is "trying to make it impossible for this section to be played out." I think that's pretty presumptious. Maybe he doesn't want to using any form of deception because his backstory has him utterly loathe it or outright vow to never take part in it. Intention speaks everything in this case and it shouldn't default to being a disruptive player.

What if instead of lying, a character simply just stayed silent. He chooses not to speak. I'll use my character as an example. He's a half orc barbarian. Could another player not just make a claim that he is his "mute" hireling? Wouldn't that avoid the entire questioning of the character. No lie needed. The other character chose to lie but my character could just sit back and do nothing.

I know this is small potatoes but it seems like unnecessary railroading.

[Shadow]

as to the issue of Mondath and the group deception check, a group check would not work there because your not working as a group He interrogates each PC individually, so you can't work together for group deception

There is a very simple, elegant, and sensible way to fix this isue that the DM apparently didn't think of.
It's called role playing.
RP the interrogation. If the players RP the lies well, he gets advantage on the deception check, raising the odds that passes the check.

[hawklost]

What's the circumstance?
Its a -4 if you had fought the Half-dragon before, but only for the person who fought it

There is an item that if you are carrying, gives you disadvantage to the check as well, but the party has to pick that item up and display it to get this disadvantage

Note that the DC is low enough that even with the -4, someone who uses point buy would succeed more than half the time and even with the Dis, you still have an OK chance. Failure does not mean immediate notice, but that sometime when the DM determines is most epic, you get noticed.



Not at all. I don't need to over dramatize it to feel right. You've already proven me right. You have to play a certain way or you lose out on a part of an adventure. A part of an adventure is significant (it's not merely a single encounter). That's just wrong.
You are not losing out exactly, you are just getting a different path to the same end. You still played a part in what occurs next even if you didn't get to play the part you wanted.

It is just like in the Mines adventure, if you make too much ruckus in the castle, you can let the bad guy escape to fight you another day, or if you fight him, he might die and therefore you don't face him later, either of those changes your future encounters because you played differently. It isn't the Adventures fault you chose to play that way and of course the Adventure cannot handle every single possible player choice to force you to play that part.



I disagree and actually find it a little bit insulting that you would declare a player/character not wanting to use subterfuge is "trying to make it impossible for this section to be played out." I think that's pretty presumptious. Maybe he doesn't want to using any form of deception because his backstory has him utterly loathe it or outright vow to never take part in it. Intention speaks everything in this case and it shouldn't default to being a disruptive player.

What if instead of lying, a character simply just stayed silent. He chooses not to speak. I'll use my character as an example. He's a half orc barbarian. Could another player not just make a claim that he is his "mute" hireling? Wouldn't that avoid the entire questioning of the character. No lie needed. The other character chose to lie but my character could just sit back and do nothing.
If your player chooses to do absolutely no subterfuge (meaning they won't even pretend by not saying anything, that they must always be 'proud' and not hide anything or even stay quiet when they know a lie has been told) they are completely being someone who is trying to make any kind of stealth/subtle style play be impossible and it is the fault of the player for building a person like this.

In your instance though, nothing in the Adventure says that you have to say a single thing to get through the whole section. Sure, you will need someone else to ask questions (they don't even have to lie unless your DM plays it that way) and you can get the information. Your character could follow your allies around and say nothing and there is nothing stopping you from completely succeeding (heck, usually parties do this anyways and let the 'face' handle all major conversation with NPCs, so there is no difference).




I know this is small potatoes but it seems like unnecessary railroading.
I would consider it less Railroading in those instances because they are giving you options on how you play. You want to be someone who is not subtle? Go ahead, you will probably be caught and have to play from that point. You are a group of subtle characters? cool, play it this way and you can get extra info! Your a group that wants to fight? Cool, you can do that but you might find yourself beaten (Note I said Beaten, NOT dead) if you take on the wrong enemies.

[MustacheFart]

Well, on the bright side...with the module being so railroading or less open (or however you want to put it) it does increase the chance, if not ensure, that players will learn the rules as they're pushed to do everything at least one time or another. The result I would imagine would be a number of educated players ready to take on homegrown campaigns.

On a related note, what is this item you speak of? Also how many people are in this camp roughly?

Lastly, someone sent me the online supplement for the module and I saw that it had magic weapons of various rarities. Are these all just random drop chance or treasure from specific enemies?

[hawklost]

Well, on the bright side...with the module being so railroading or less open (or however you want to put it) it does increase the chance, if not ensure, that players will learn the rules as they're pushed to do everything at least one time or another. The result I would imagine would be a number of educated players ready to take on homegrown campaigns.

On a related note, what is this item you speak of? Also how many people are in this camp roughly?

Lastly, someone sent me the online supplement for the module and I saw that it had magic weapons of various rarities. Are these all just random drop chance or treasure from specific enemies?

Answer of the number of people is...
The number of people in the camp is "Effectively Unlimited" by what the book says. I believe somewhere around 100+ Kobolds and 80+ humans.
If I am remembering the module correctly, every item that the supplement shows is in a very specific location of the module. To the best of my knowledge, there are no random chances for a magical item to be dropped. (I believe this is intentional and makes the most sense, unless it is in a pre-planned treasure hoard or the enemy is using it against you, you don't get magical items)

EDIT: And yes, if players want to play an open ended game with no railroading, you have to play something other than an Adventure. Adventure modules are designed for a very specific set of cercumstances with a pre-written story. You get to be part of the story, but you do not get to write it wholesale, like you could if you were in a free-form DnD game.

[Beige]

There is a very simple, elegant, and sensible way to fix this isue that the DM apparently didn't think of.
It's called role playing.
RP the interrogation. If the players RP the lies well, he gets advantage on the deception check, raising the odds that passes the check.

...you mean, do exactly what the module tells you to do. but if we do that, and thats what you suggest, the module cannot be as terrible as your making out :smallamused: now if the DM didn't do that, then there is a flaw there, but that's not the module so much as the DM.

characters get an advantage or disadvantage of the deception check based on what they say. and even if they fail the deception check to convince the evil cult guy they're here for a reason, its not like they die or anything. people who successfully convince the cult are able to gain bonus exp by discovering things, people who do not infiltrate the place do not get exp for infiltrating the cult

and it is just bonus exp - you gain exp even for attempting it, and for escaping if things go south in your attempts to infiltrate (no mention in the book of what you get for somehow defeating the whole cult singlehandedly, but then you should be around 2nd level by now and there are a few hundred cultists, so...) not as much as succeeding, but it's a bad habit to give someone the same reward if they do good or goof up. the information gained is an optional objective* for bonus rewards.

alternatively, you can use the inbuilt milestone system and give them level 3 regardless so long as they complete the barest part of the module and get to part 3 (considering part 3 can be achieved by ignoring/walking away from the cult, its the easiest level in module history XD)

* as is the dragon from part 1. if you ignore it and do th required parts, it flies off/is driven off without your help.

[da_chicken]

So basically, lie or lose out. Seems pretty short sighted.

Seems pretty realistic. Dogmatic adherence to a creed is often suicidal, particularly simplistic and naive creeds like "never tell a lie under any circumstances." Quite honestly, a player choosing a character with this restriction is choosing to screw over the party. When it does so is only a matter of time, regardless of the campaign.

[Shadow]

...you mean, do exactly what the module tells you to do. but if we do that, and thats what you suggest, the module cannot be as terrible as your making out :smallamused:
I wasn't one of the ones that said it was terrible.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I'm planning on running this module soon, so let me just see if I get this straight:


Have a well-rounded party
Alternatively, have a bigger party (5 seems to be an agreed number)
Stock up on healing potions

And they will start at level 1? Am I getting that correct? Because the actual encounters seem incredibly deadly for even higher level characters, and there are a lot of encounters to episode 1.

[MustacheFart]

Seems pretty realistic. Dogmatic adherence to a creed is often suicidal, particularly simplistic and naive creeds like "never tell a lie under any circumstances." Quite honestly, a player choosing a character with this restriction is choosing to screw over the party. When it does so is only a matter of time, regardless of the campaign.


Now that's incredibly short-sided and false. What if you have a character that simply has the flaw of "never tell a lie under any circumstances." Maybe the player likes the conflict it brings to his own interactions, knowing "I'd have a far easier time if only I could tell a lie". Perhaps he's assuming as a player that his party can work around that flaw. There are plenty of ways to work around that. By the definition of screwing the party you've put forth, any flaw within a character that would outwardly effect them could be seen as purposefully choosing to screw over the party. That's just a cop out.

We're not talking about creating a character here who's a sociopath that slits his party members throats in the middle of the night...

Btw, since when is DnD about being realistic? :smallwink:

[Dark Tira]

Now that's incredibly short-sided and false. What if you have a character that simply has the flaw of "never tell a lie under any circumstances." Maybe the player likes the conflict it brings to his own interactions, knowing "I'd have a far easier time if only I could tell a lie". Perhaps he's assuming as a player that his party can work around that flaw. There are plenty of ways to work around that. By the definition of screwing the party you've put forth, any flaw within a character that would outwardly effect them could be seen as purposefully choosing to screw over the party. That's just a cop out.

We're not talking about creating a character here who's a sociopath that slits his party members throats in the middle of the night...

Btw, since when is DnD about being realistic? :smallwink:

He's right though. Inflexible dogmatic Paladins have killed many D&D groups. Players can certainly choose to play them but they have to realize that they are likely to put the party in danger if they put their honor ahead of peoples lives.

[MustacheFart]

He's right though. Inflexible dogmatic Paladins have killed many D&D groups. Players can certainly choose to play them but they have to realize that they are likely to put the party in danger if they put their honor ahead of peoples lives.

Well any player can put the party in danger whether a rogue failing to disable a trap to a big clunky melee fighter trying to sneak around. Agreed, that a moral high ground does present an increased conflict that typically results in greater danger for the party. It takes a special kind of party to handle that kind of character but that kind of character shouldn't be considered an outright attempt to screw the party.

[Dark Tira]

Well any player can put the party in danger whether a rogue failing to disable a trap to a big clunky melee fighter trying to sneak around. Agreed, that a moral high ground does present an increased conflict that typically results in greater danger for the party. It takes a special kind of party to handle that kind of character but that kind of character shouldn't be considered an outright attempt to screw the party.

Sure it can, it's really not any different from the fighter that has 9 AC and 9 HP. It's a roleplaying choice that intentionally hobbles the party. I'm not saying that players can't do it, but they certainly do not get to complain when an adventure module doesn't cater to their character choices.

[MustacheFart]

Sure it can, it's really not any different from the fighter that has 9 AC and 9 HP. It's a roleplaying choice that intentionally hobbles the party. I'm not saying that players can't do it, but they certainly do not get to complain when an adventure module doesn't cater to their character choices.


Hah...why wouldn't they? I certainly think a character with a moral high ground is different than a character with 9 AC and 9 HP. The latter is mechanically poor so it would hinder the party regardless of the character's background/fluff. The former just has a specific fluff/RP element. Also the "do no wrong" paladin that has been brought up has been around forever so it's not a new concept. It's legitimacy would warrant complaints from a module if they arise.

[hawklost]

Hah...why wouldn't they? I certainly think a character with a moral high ground is different than a character with 9 AC and 9 HP. The latter is mechanically poor so it would hinder the party regardless of the character's background/fluff. The former just has a specific fluff/RP element. Also the "do no wrong" paladin that has been brought up has been around forever so it's not a new concept. It's legitimacy would warrant complaints from a module if they arise.

Mechaniclly Poor setup and RP poor setup are not that far off if you actually play a game where RP matters. Someone who is crappy at their job is just as bad as someone who is decent or good at their job but is unwilling to do anything but that job.

There is also a reason why many many DMs would not allow a Paladin to play. It wasn't because they were crappy or great but because the RP aspect of them screwed the game up for too many players to be happy with it.

EDIT: Also, the Module does allow for it. You get captured and you get to play from that perspective. Its not like the Module outright killed you because you are LG uber jerk.

[da_chicken]

There is also a reason why many many DMs would not allow a Paladin to play. It wasn't because they were crappy or great but because the RP aspect of them screwed the game up for too many players to be happy with it.

Yup. There's a reason nobody ever played with a 1e Unearthed Arcana Cavalier more than once.

Edit adding:

It's like Aquaman. If you're playing a superhero RPG and someone rolls up Aquaman, then either the campaign spends a lot of time dealing with aquatic enemies or Aquaman's going to be sitting on the bench a whole lot. It's player railroading.

[Jakinbandw]

You know after reading this I am convinced that the people that said that it is fair are correct. It's no worse than the party stumbling into a trap, or failing to pick a locked door open in a dungeon and missing out on most of the loot.

I think the problem is that I am looking for different things than Dnd provides. RPGs where you don't usually fail straight up, as have to make harder and harder choices on what to sacrifice to keep going.

It's a shame, because I really enjoy making characters in dnd.

[TheSethGrey]

Aren't we all forgetting the monk? Doesn't he know info the PCs can learn?

[Callin]

Rant

Just got done with my first session into the module. HOLY HECK! I hear everyone in here saying how tough it is and I mentioned it to the DM long before the first session. That way he can kind of check it over and make sure he dont steamroll us. Well he instead INCREASED the difficulty because we were a party of 5 and he said the module was for 4 PCs. First encounter has us at Half HP, second encounter I drop to 0 and get healed up and now we are out of healing spells. The bard used 1 during the second encounter to cast Heroism on the Barbarian. Encounter 3 the Paladin finally shows up (my brother was late to the game) and before he can even act he gets mobbed and dropped to 0. So now limping along with 1 member down for the count unconscious till we can rest, we make it to the final encounter before the keep. I drop to 0 yet again, and every one else slogs through it. I make 1 saving throw, fail 2 more and then Nat 20 my fourth roll. So I limp to the keep with everyone else at 1 HP.

Short rest finally and then a healing potion to us to bring us back to fighting snuff. Keep gets invaded and we try to fight em as they come into the keep proper. Well we find out that they just keep coming and coming. The Bard gets dropped in the 3rd round and is out for a few rounds, then a chick runs up with a healing potion and gets him back into the fight. We get to the breached door and shut it and the Bard gets the bright idea of using Minor Illusion to make it look like it is on fire till it is repaired. It works for all but 1 kobold who is quickly skewered.

Then its off to the Mill! We get into the tunnel (for some reason we are not given a key to this thing) and we pick the lock. We make our way down and deal with the 2 rat swarms, easy as pie. There is then a cult patrol outside the tunnel and we trick em into coming into the tunnel and good tactics we kill all but one who runs away. I feel like that is going to bite us in the butt later. We took one human captive from that group.

So all in all we hit lvl 2 from the extra stuff he threw at us and saving 6 people. We are currently resting at the keep before we head back towards the Mill.

[Malifice]

We had a relatively easy time of it with 4 PC's (Fighter, Druid, Rogue, Sorcerer).

Sleep made short work of two of the encounters on the way to the keep, and I managed to drop the Drake with a hit using the GWM feat and some help from the Druid. The Druid went down in one of the encouters but jagged the death save and popped back up and managed to heal himself. After 3/4 encounters we found ourselves short of spells.

We took a short rest in the keep, and found the tunnel on our own. The swarm encounter dropped the Druid (again) and could have ended quite badly with the rest of the party falling back. We got lucky and smashed the swarms. A Cleric in the keep healed the Druid for us.

We captured a cultist using a cunning plan (the Rogue used his cover identity to lure a lone cultist to the secret passage 'for the glory of Tiamat') where we ambushed him and dragged him back to the Keeps ruler.

At this stage we had enough xp to level to 2nd; enter the Moon Druid wildshaping into Bear form 2/short rest (34 HP, 2 attacks at +5 doing 2d6+4 and 1d8+4) and its been pretty downhill from there.

We investigated the mill, and while the Fighter was outside directing a bunch of NPC's to put out the fire, the rest of the party went inside to explore. They got ambushed and nearly TPK'd but were able to run outside and get my attention. The Rogue and I held them at the door while the Sorcerer ran inside and poured a healing potion down the Druids belly. He got up, morphed into Bear shape and proceeded to rampage through the Cultists.

Have just returned to the keep and intend on taking a long rest. DM was suggesting that innocent people will die if we do so, but I'm Lawful Evil. So screw them. Im here to wreak vengance on the Cult; I couldnt care less if peasants die.

Aside from the Druid going down three times, we're pretty solid. Now that he has his Grizzly form up and running, I feel we should make short work of the rest of the encounters coming our way.

Been very balanced IMO.

[Callin]

Were your encounters vs 8+ opponents? The one in the courtyard was 2 acolytes, 6 cultists, and 2 kobolds. The next encounter was 8 cultists and 4 kobolds. We were swamped with tons of mobs. All the encounters were like that. Our group is Barb, Bard, Paladin, Ranger and Rogue.

[Malifice]

Were your encounters vs 8+ opponents? The one in the courtyard was 2 acolytes, 6 cultists, and 2 kobolds. The next encounter was 8 cultists and 4 kobolds. We were swamped with tons of mobs. All the encounters were like that. Our group is Barb, Bard, Paladin, Ranger and Rogue.

Yep.

Sleep wiped out the better part of two of those encounters, leaving us with only 3 or 4 left to fight. Never leave home without it.

My Fighter is AC 17, +5 hit, 2d6+3 damage and GWM granting me 'cleave' when I drop one (which I do each time I hit one). Meaning Im usually dropping 2 cultists/ kobolds per round even with average rolling. I did have to use a bonus action to second wind after 2 hits brought me down to 4HP. Rolled well and got back up to full. Managed a short rest in the keep to get my second wind back.

Wiped out the Drake with a GWM -5/+10 hit. Used inspiration I got from defending the children (its my bond) to get advantage on the attack and one of the dice came up a 15 (from memory). Did about 22 damage in one hit to the Drake (who had gotten firebolted and hit by the Druid as well).

The Rogue is TWF with a dex of 16 (and his ranged attacks are nifty too). He's getting SA constantly, and dropping a kobold/ cutlist with one hit every time also.

The Druid was facing some problems, but his AC is around 15 and he was hitting with Shilleigh at +5 doing 1d8+3. He got dropped a few times, but had Cure Wounds prepared also.

Now he has hit 2nd level, he's in Bear form (34 bonus HP 2/short rest, 2 x massive attacks, 40' speed, Large size) and he's an engine of destuction (and an amazing HP sink).

In fact its CoDziilla all over again.

[Arzanyos]

Wait, you're Lawful Evil and couldn't care less if the peasants die, but yet protecting the children is your bond?

[Callin]

Aight cool so its just a slogfest then. We dont really have an offensive spellcaster. The Bard is a buffer healer. Each hit we did dropped a mob, the rogue always got sneak attack, and we used terrain to our advantage. I was jumping from roof to roof on the Ranger, as was the Rogue. Me, the rogue and the bard are ranged.

[Malifice]

Wait, you're Lawful Evil and couldn't care less if the peasants die, but yet protecting the children is your bond?

Yeah, Im an orphan. On my sixth birthday, my parents (who were worshippers of Torm) were killed in Tantras during the time of troubles by sacrificing themselves to Torm so he could kill Bane. Left me and my older brother alone to be raised at the temple of Torm (as the 'Martyrs Progeny'). As a consequence I have a soft spot for chidren (particularly orphans).

After several years in the temple, my brother and I were trained as Paladins of Torm, however he was killed by the Cult of the Dragon on a quest for the Church. I investigated his dissapearance and found his killer. He surrendered and pleaded for Mercy, however I ruthlessly exectuted him (failing in my mission) causing Torm to withdraw his divine powers from me.

I embraced the darkness and pledged my alleigance (ironically) to Bane. The way my character sees it, Torm is a false God who abandoned my parents and my family in their time of need (killing them). He also abandoned me for doing the 'right' thing, despite me sacrificing so much in his name.

Im now a LE Fighter 1/ Paladin (Vengance) 1. Moving into Cleric of Bane.

My goals are to bring ruin to the 'evil' church of Torm, and eventually slay the 'False' God personally and avenge my family. The irony and tragedy of me dedicating my life to a God my parents gave their lives to stop makes the character a cool headspace to crawl into. I also seek to bring order and peace to Faerun by establishing a Theocracy dedicated to the Black Hand. Establishing order through fear and tyranny.

I am in Greenest on behalf of the Church of Bane and the Zhentarim.

[Callin]

Nice backstory. My character is a Half Elf raised in Silverymoon who joined the harpers after being rescued by one at an early age. He is a Ranger who wants to also explore his fey heritage so is going to pick up 3 levels of fey pact warlock to grab Tome Pact. Beastmaster Ranger with a Flying Snake finishes it out.

I took Guild Artisan and fluffed it for The Harpers for my background.

[Malifice]

Nice backstory. My character is a Half Elf raised in Silverymoon who joined the harpers after being rescued by one at an early age. He is a Ranger who wants to also explore his fey heritage so is going to pick up 3 levels of fey pact warlock to grab Tome Pact. Beastmaster Ranger with a Flying Snake finishes it out.

Nice!


I took Guild Artisan and fluffed it for The Harpers for my background.

I took Acoloyte to show my being raised in the temple of Torm. GM is happy to allow me Zent/ Bane contacts instead.

The look on the Keep lords face when I announced myself as 'Malifice Flamestrike, Sword of Bane' was priceless.

Also when I gutted a cultist attmpting to get troop dispositions and so forth from him in front of the children. 'Let that be a lesson to you children; obey the will of Bane or die' Only the strong deserve to survive and prosper.'

[Callin]

Oh I dont doubt that lol.

[Malifice]

Oh I dont doubt that lol.

Also intollerant of other faiths. The Clerics in the Keep found that out when they attepted to preach to me after healing the Druid. They were told in no uncertain terms what I though of their deity.

I may have closed the door on any future healing assistance though!

:smallcool:

[MustacheFart]

Well, this past Sunday my group just did Chapter 2. We have a party of 8 now so it was rather large and fights were scaled up accordingly. Overall it went much better than the first chapter. At least for me that is.

Here's what happened:

My party of like 8 people decided to split up for entering the camp. Originally it was two groups of four. The first group claimed they wanted to join. They were taken away and forced to give up all of their stuff. My group going second decided to split further when one of the guys didn't like my idea to pretend to already be cultists. So, two people (a bard and a druid) went in claiming they too wanted to join. They were recognized and brought before Mondath. She senticed them to death. They were tied to poles up top.

That left myself and another player. I am a barbarian and he is a fighter. It gets much better. We are both huge Half-Orcs. I was also the one who fought the half Dragon Champion. I had decided that if my face was seen I was as good as busted. From a player standpoint I actually thought I would be the one caught but I was wrong.

The other half-orc player made the suggestion of entering through the gate as the druid and bard tried to enter. That was a great idea so I came up with the idea of, basically: keep our heads down, stick out our hands, utter "praise to the five-head dragon queen" or whatever it was, and keep walking--basically a drive-by checkin. We flew right in to everyone's shock, no problem.

At that point, we went to the cave to drop off our donation of loot, found out about the dragon edges and began exploring the lower level. The druid and bard were put up top to be executed. The other four players after being indoctrinated met us at the mess hall. We relayed some info but they really didn't have much. We told them about the eggs. At some point, our warlock got tasked with kitchen duty. I was in the can (in real life) when it happened so I wasn't quite sure how it went down. Anyway, he started causing a commotion. This commotion sucked up the rest of the first group except for my wife, our rogue, who pegged a perception check to see what the two half-orcs were up to. The other 3 players were too deep in the middle of the kitchen commotion to notice.

The Half-Orc fighter and I had decided that we needed better robes to get higher up in the complex. We decided to lure some higher ranked cultists off behind the mess hall tent during the commotion. We managed to lure one off and I grabbed him while the fighter beat him up. Think holding his hands behind his back while another guy punches him in the gut lol. We took his Robe and put it on the Half-Orc fighter.

We then noticed the cultist we knocked out was a Half-elf. The same race as the monk we were trying to save. We hatched the plan of sneaking him up top to swap him out to buy us some time to flee. The rogue who has saw us lure a cultist out came to assist.

So we had the half-Orc fighter wearing a higher ranked cultist robe, myself wearing an initiate cultist rogue, and my wife, a gnome, also wearing a cultist robe as we headed up to the execution grounds. We put a bag over the head of the half elf. We snuck by most but failed a roll so one of the guards saw us. We claimed that this guy was to be executed. The fighter kind of botched his initial roll which made his story start to fall flat. Luckily he thought quick on his feat and said it was one of the troublemakers who was causing the commotion in the mess hall down below. The fighter then rolled a nat 20 on his roll and we were let by. What helped was, I had the rogue use minor illusion on the half elf cultist's face when they pulled the sack of his head to make him look like a human. The sack kept her from having to keep it up the entire time.

We took him to the pole next to our comrades. At this point, the rogue went around back to "help" tie the ropes. I managed to persuade one of the four guards to come around back to help tie up the prisoner. The rogue scooted over to get out of the way and proceeded to quietly cut the ropes of our sentenced comrades next to us. She got one free but failed on the stealth roll to get the next one free without being noticed.

This alerted the remaining three guards. I was ready though and promptly did a shove of the guard "helping" uttering "This is GREENEST!" as I kicked his ass off the backside of the cliff. Rage advantage on strength checks meant he had no chance in hell. 2 guards left!

The druid wildshaped and the rest of us swarmed the two remaining guards. The monk npc stood by and watched (prick). After we took them out, we confirmed that nobody heard due to the commotion down below still going on. We tied up the cultist and guards to the poles to give the illusion that all of the prisoners were still waiting to be executed. After finally almost "forcing" the monk to go with the bard and druid, the bard casted featherfall and they lept off the backside cliff. We agreed to meet them at the old camp.

So, the two Half-Orcs and the rogue headed back down like nothing happened. The rogue wanted to go with the bard but I had her stay because I thought I might need her. I had her show us where the armory tent was. We headed there and I had the bright idea to make a bluff that "some idiot put treasure for the cave here in the armory". They bit it, hook line and sinker. The rogue was a back up. We walked in and proceeded to bag up everything in the armory including the equipment from the first group of 4 players that had to give up their stuff because they were stupid. Heh, the cleric didn't like when I wore his holy symbol armor, mocking him first, before I gave it back LOL.

We left there, grabbed the other guys from the mess hall and beat feat.

After a while, a large group of cultists, kabolds, and two drakes (dragon lizard beasts?) caught up to us, pissed off about what we'd done no doubt. We were down the druid and bard but nevertheless we finished off the enemy pursuers. Our cleric fell in the process but our paladin managed to heal him up before he died after we reminded the paladin that he had lay on hands lol.

So, yeah!...6 other people in the group but the whole chapter was primarily defeated by the two half-orcs!!! They won't be able to stereotype us as dumb. They were all out-smarted by two huge grunts. HAHA still makes me laugh.

[Chaosvii7]

Disagree about the 5 PCs and unorthodox parties thing; Starting party for Encounters was two fighters, a wizard, and a ranger, and they were doing fine. The week after, we added a warlock to the mix(and dropped one fighter). Chapter 2 gave us a rogue, 2 clerics, and another warlock(the other fighter at this point moved to the other table to make up for the lack of players over there - I guess I'm a popular DM?), for a total of 6 people in one party. They've got bare minimum healing, and there is no problems at all. Things are running very smoothly, but the big problem is that now that the party's so big, the things they're doing and their XP reward is starting to outpace the number of party members - they got a hefty sum from Chapter 2 but half the party is still level 1 going into part 3, which I suspect will start to cause some problems. I also think that at the rate Encounters is growing(about 2 new people a week, between myself and the other DM) that a third table is going to be a necessity.

That said, I think 4 PCs is the right number for HoTDQ, as long as the DM is conscious of the party's need to short rest. They should get enough XP between the parts to level everybody evenly.

[emeraldstreak]

If the DM isn't pulling blows only an optimized 4-men party won't lose members.

[donut70]

Oh geez, I could tell it was a hard campaign, but I didn't realize it was constantly "deadly" for a party of 4.

My group consists of

The DM: who follows all encounter rules, but seems to be tweaking things like "free cleric healing at the keep in thanks to your help once per mission" and "2 standard non-magical equipment items from the keep armory per character" (I got my awesome breastplate and yklwa this way)

Kallisto Thunderbinder - My newbie attempt at optimization control tank variant human (feat is reslilent for constitution) Cleric 1/Wizard X (currently level l wizard):
scores:
10 str
14 dex
14 con (+1 variant human +1 resilient (con))
16 int (+1 variant human)
13 wis
14 cha
Role (s): 1. Closest thing we have to a tank with 18 AC (breastplate 14 + 2 dex + 2 shield) and 18 HP (fixed hp with con mod +3).
2. control/aggro with sanctuary, fog cloud and minor illusion, marking for AoO, + some RP tuants or intimidations that hopefully work.
3 Buffing with bless.
4. tertiary healer with spare the dying and one healing word (I am a knowledge, not life cleric for giving me expertise in history and arcana).

The other two are:

Barry
Lvl 2 | Aasimar | Sorcerer 2
AC 13 (no armor proficiency, luckily +3 dex)
Hp lower than mine
Role (s): 1. DPR
2.primary healer with Aasimar skill and cure wounds
3. debuff with bane

Charlotte Maldoria
Lvl 2 | Human | Warlock 1/Bard 1
AC 13 (studded leather +1 dex)
HP lower than mine
Role(s): attempting DPR and debuffing enemies with vicious mockery (bard can't do much at level 1) + 1 cure wounds that tends to need to be used on himself

We started at level one and are luckily using xp leveling. So far we have made it to the keep and past the rats in the tunnel (though charlotte was KOed and needed healing because the rats ran past my buffed 20 AC)

We had to avoid 2 of the 4 fights on the way to the keep and only engaged in the last one because of the 19 civilians we had rescued. 9 of which were abled bodied adults that I armed with the slings I had grabbed from the first 8 kobolds (the others wondered why i bothered to take them, this made them eat their words XD ) We had gotten a surprise round against the 4 cultists and 2 kobolds and the intial barrage of the commoners took out one cultist and hurt another before we took out 2 more with our PC attacks.
Then I got a lucky roll and won intiative to one-shot another kobold, and the last 2 were easily killed off.
By far the easiest encounter so far :)

Aside, watching the DM roll 9 d20's was awesome!

Then we got back to the keep and found each saved commoner was 50 XP. 19x50 = Icing on the cake and halfway to level 3 :)

From what it is sounding like though, it's just going to get harder.

How useful is an owl familiar in this campaign? I'm intending to use it to make up for our lack of scouting with a scry-or-die party, and help the other two get advantage on attacks, (since even my attack rolls already have a +5 to hit). I also intend to get Alert as soon as possible for it's enhanced fog cloud usefulness on top of all it gives.

Any suggestions?

[rmnimoc]

It's not a bad adventure by any means and you can clear it with a party of four easily enough so long as you're careful. When I ran it we had an absolutely atrocious party comp and we still managed it fairly well. If a party of four paladins can manage it, I'm pretty confident any party can.