Attacking Grappled Targets?

[dupes]

Hey everyone - looking for a little help. Do the 3.5 rules address anywhere the restrictions/penalties/mechanics/outcome of attacking a target that's grappling a friendly creature? How about just located "on" a friendly creature (think spider on your shoulder that someone swings an axe at)? I can't find anything in the books, FAQ, nothing.

Any help GREATLY appreciated (since this comes up a lot...and will again soon :smallwink: )!

[Ratatoskir]

Ranged attacks would have to roll a random target amongst those that are grappling (melee attacks avoid this) and the grappler/grappled lose dex to AC

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm

[dupes]

Ok. Read over that chart some more. I guess what I'm looking for is, is there a chance that you hit your ally when attacking the enemy grappler? It appears so with ranged weapons, but how about with melee? And does it make a difference if you AREN'T grappling? For example - a spider (or stirge, or whatever small/tiny creature) jumps on your back - effectively occupying the same square - and your party wants to attack it. Is there a penalty to that attack? Is there a chance to hit your friend?

[Ettina]

I don't know the actual rules, but if I was DMing it, then if you failed your attack roll I'd do a second roll to decide if you hit your friend by mistake. (Or if you got a 1 you would automatically critical-hit your friend.)

[Urpriest]

You're assumed to be able to target well enough in melee to avoid the problem, which is why only ranged attacks have a chance of hitting the other party.

If you're in a grapple, IIRC you can target perfectly well.

[dupes]

See, I'm with Ettina that it doesn't make sense that a player can swing a greataxe (for example) at someone in a grapple and have zero chance of hitting the wrong person regardless of how poorly they roll.

But from what I'm reading, Urpriest is correct that the rules only support that with a ranged weapon.

[Slipperychicken]

I would assume that, in absence of clarification, each grappler would have an equal chance to be targeted. Therefore the chance for a given grappling creature to be targeted by a given attack roll is =1/N, where N is the number of creatures engaged in the grapple. 2 grapplers means each combatant has 50%, 3 grapplers means ~33.33%, 4 grapplers is 25%, 5 is 20%, and so on.

I'd rule the stirge/giant spider situation as a grapple, as the Stirge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/stirge.htm) entry for its "Attach" special attack confirms this to be RAW.


As for creatures coexisting in the same square, but not grappling, I believe Soft Cover would apply.


Soft Cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover)
Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.


Improved Precise Shot lets you avoid the random target selection.


Improved Precise Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedPreciseShot) [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 19, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +11.

Benefit
Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks.

In addition, when you shoot or throw ranged weapons at a grappling opponent, you automatically strike at the opponent you have chosen.

[dupes]

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that IPS had that reading about the grapple opponents. Good to know!

[Slipperychicken]

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that IPS had that reading about the grapple opponents. Good to know!

I didn't notice it either at first. Hell, I didn't even remember the grappling random target selection thing until this thread came up.