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View Full Version : Pathfinder "Maybe it's because I'm better. Or maybe I'm just lucky." [Base Class]



Tanuki Tales
2014-09-01, 12:19 AM
Fortune's Favored


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The image used above is part of the public domain, as provided by Public Domain Clip Art.

"Luck is a very thin wire between survival and disaster, and not many people can keep their balance on it." - Hunter S. Thompson



Great and powerful forces shape and maintain the continued existence of the multiverse, being multitude in number and varied in definition. If you were to ask a scholar, they may speak of gravity, weak and strong force and electromagnetism. If you were to ask a man of the cloth, he would speak of how the will and all encompassing power of their god(s) were what stoked the fire of creation and whom keep it burning. If you were to ask a wizard, sequestered behind his enchanted doors in a forgotten tower away from civilization, he would flatly tell you "Magic". But if you were to ask the common man, even if he was aware of all the other "answers", he would tell you that Luck is the strongest of forces and is what keeps it all spinning. And in a cosmology where science, belief and the supernatural all collide, this blue collar opinion becomes just as valid, if not more so, than any of the others.

Luck, as capricious as the wind, is possessed by all things, both the living, the unliving and the animated. It is an invisible hand that guides from the infinity of possibles to the one truth (at least in this universe) that comes from any attempted action or experienced occurrence. Many venerate it as if it were a deity and many ignore it, but all float like detritus down the bosom of this great metaphysical river. But like a real river there are those who do not passively follow the current; no, they move amongst it, bending it to their will and benefit (either knowingly or unknowingly) and (usually) to the detriment of those who oppose them. They become masters of their own destiny, wresting control from that invisible hand to guide themselves down a path far better suited to their own wishes and designs.

Where a barbarian makes his will manifest through incredible strength, a fighter through hard earned martial skill and the wizard through long introspection into the metaphysical properties of the world, the Fortune's Favored takes the path of least resistance. They don't take the hard path of their contemporaries and peers, instead just making it so that everything comes easy to them, the universe served up on a silver platter. For, at the end of the day, what is ultimately important is that results are found and that the hero saves the day (or the villain conquerors it). Who cares if this took no more exertion than just waking up that morning and taking a step outside one's front door?



Role: A Fortune's Favored can aptly be found either on or off the battlefield. On it they are mobile attackers, like the rogue or monk, as they do not have the formidable defenses to weather long the attention of a brutish foe. They quickly find the right spot to hit, exploit it and move on as soon as possible. Out of combat they easily fill the role of skill monkey, similar to the rogue or bard, bringing their luck to bare for their benefit and that of their party members.

Alignment: Though a Fortune's Favored may be of any alignment, they naturally gravitate towards those of a Chaotic bent, matching the supremely chaotic force they manipulate.

Hit Die: d8

Starting Gold: As bard.

Class Skills
The Fortune's Favored's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Acrobatics (Dexterity), Bluff (Charisma), Craft (Wisdom), Diplomacy (Charisma), Disable Device (Dexterity), Disguise (Charisma), Escape Artist (Dexterity), Knowledge (Local), Linguistics (Intelligence), Perception (Wisdom), Profession (Wisdom), Sleight of Hand (Dexterity), Sense Motive (Wisdom) and Stealth (Dexterity).

Skill Ranks per Level: (6 + Int modifier)


Fortune's Favored


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Luck Dice


1st

+0

+0

+2

+2
Bonus Feat, Salvaged Luck

2


2nd

+1

+0

+3

+3
Lucky Break

3


3rd

+2

+1

+3

+3
Never had a Friend Like Me

3


4th

+3

+1

+4

+4
Lucky Break, Right Place at the Right Time

4


5th

+3

+1

+4

+4
Bonus Feat, The Lucky Number

4


6th

+4

+2

+5

+5
Lucky Break, Salvaged Luck (Allies)

5


7th

+5

+2

+5

+5
Never had a Friend Like Me (Luck Feat)

5


8th

+6/+1

+2

+6

+6
Born Lucky, Lucky Break

6


9th

+6/+1

+3

+6

+6
Bonus Feat, Compounded Luck

6


10th

+7/+2

+3

+7

+7
Lucky Break

7


11th

+8/+3

+3

+7

+7
Never had a Friend Like Me (Luck Feat)

7


12th

+9/+4

+4

+8

+8
Lucky Break, Salvaged Luck (Enemies)

8


13th

+9/+3

+4

+8

+8
Bonus Feat

8


14th

+10/+5

+4

+9

+9
Lucky Break, One Person's Luck

9


15th

+11/+6/+1

+5

+9

+9
Never had a Friend Like Me (Luck Feat)

9


16th

+12/+7/+2

+5

+10

+10
By the Skin of your Teeth, Lucky Break, Siphon Luck

10


17th

+12/+7/+2

+5

+10

+10
Bonus Feat

10


18th

+13/+8/+3

+6

+11

+11
From the Jaws of Defeat, Lucky Break

11


19th

+14/+9/+4

+6

+11

+11
Never had a Friend Like Me (Luck Feat)

11


20th

+15/+10/+5

+6

+12

+12
Lucky Break, Luck of the Gods

12



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Fortune's Favored.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
A Fortune's Favored is proficient with all simple weapons and three martial weapons of their choice (this selection is made at character creation and once made cannot be changed). They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.


Luck Dice
The very core of a Fortune's Favored prodigious good fortune is their ability to inherently push events into their favor. The Fortune's Favored begins each day with a number of "Luck Dice" as denoted on the table above. Whenever they are required to make a dice roll to determine the results of an action undertaken or reacted to, they may choose to expend one of their Luck Dice. If they choose to do this, they roll a 1d6 and add the result as a Luck bonus to the dice roll they wish to modify. A Fortune's Favored may elect to expend multiple Luck Dice on a single dice roll to be modified, but can only expend a number of Luck Dice on a single dice result equal to one quarter their total levels in this class (minimum 1). Expending Luck Dice in this manner requires no action and is considered part of the action that the modified dice roll uses. A Luck Dice cannot be expended to modify the result of other Luck Dice.

Luck Dice may be used to modify any of the types of dice rolls listed below, either before the result is known or after (at the Fortune's Favored's discretion):
Ability checks
Attack rolls
Damage rolls
Character level checks
Combat maneuver checks
Critical hit confirmation checks
Initiative checks
Saving throws
Skill checks


Recovering Luck Dice

Once expended, there are only a few way that a Fortune's Favored can gain back their precious resource:
By resting for eight, uninterrupted, hours the Fortune's Favored regains all their expended Luck Dice.
If their Luck Dice pool is empty, a Fortune's Favored regains a single Luck Die at the beginning of an encounter.
If the Fortune's Favored rolls a maximum result on a die (such as a 20 on a d20 or a 12 on a d12), they regain one Luck Die. This does not apply to any dice smaller than a d6 or Luck Dice.
By benefiting from their Salvaged Fortune class feature (detailed below)


Luck Dice and Other Rerolls

When a Fortune's Favored gains access to another ability/class feature/feat/racial trait/etc. that would grant them the ability to re-roll a dice result (other than their Lucky Break class feature), they instead increase the maximum size of their Luck Dice pool by one. They may also expend dice from their Luck Dice pool (at a one to one ratio) to fuel any such ability/class feature/feat/racial trait/etc. Expending Luck Dice in this manner uses the same type of action that using the ability/etc. normally would require. If the ability is normally usable only 1/day, the Fortune's Favored removes such a limitation.


Bonus Feat
At 1st level, and every four levels thereafter, the Fortune's Favored gains a bonus feat. This feat must be a feat with the Luck tag, Luck in its name or otherwise grant the ability to re-roll a dice result. The Fortune's Favored must also meet the prerequisites for selecting the feat.


Salvaged Luck (Su)
When great success is obtained in the attempt of an action there is luck that could have swayed the result one way or the other, but is instead unneeded and wasted. A Fortune's Favored abhors such abandonment of luck and instead squirrel it away for a rainy day. Starting at 1st level, when the Fortune's Favored succeeds against a check, on an attack roll or kills a creature with a dice based effect (usually hit point damage) they regain a Luck Die for every five points they exceed they required result by (assuming there is room in their Luck Dice Pool). At 6th level, the Fortune's Favored regains Luck Dice if any ally within sixty feet of them meet the requirements mentioned above. At 12th level this applies to enemies within sixty feet of the Fortune's Favored. A Fortune's Favored can only benefit from their Salvaged Luck class feature once per round.


Lucky Break (Ex)
Things always just seem to go the right way for a Fortune's Favored. They always strike the sweet spot on a foe for massive damage, they always find the right handhold on a rock face and they always manage to resist outside influences that would bring them to ruin. Starting at 2nd level, a Fortune's Favored selects one of the kinds of dice rolls listed below and may choose to re-roll a result and take the higher of the two. They select an additional type of action to be affected for every two levels they possess past the first, to a maximum of ten at 20th level. The Fortune's Favored can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + their Charisma modifier and may only affect a single dice result with this ability a number of times equal to one quarter their class level (minimum 1).

Ability checks
Attack rolls
Combat maneuver checks
Critical hit confirmations
Damage rolls
Dice based healing
Initiative checks
Saving throws
Skill checks
Stabilization checks


Never had a Friend Like Me (Su)
A Fortune's Favored's luck can be quite contagious, if they so choose to work it for the good of their compatriots. At 3rd level, the Fortune's Favored may impart a Luck Die to a willing creature. As a full-round action, the Fortune's Favored lays hands on the creature and reduces the size of their Luck Dice pool by one. The affected creature gains the Luck Dice and Salvage Luck class feature for twenty four hours, at which point the Luck Die returns to the Fortune's Favored and the affected creature loses the class features. The Fortune's Favored may affect a number of creatures per day equal to 1+ their Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

At 7th level, the creature imparted a Luck Die by a Fortune's Favored also gain access to one Luck feat possessed by the Fortuen's Favored (but not the additional Luck re-roll). The affected creature gains access to an additional feat for every four levels past this, to a maximum of 4 feats at 19th level.


Right Place at the Right Time (Su)
A Fortune's Favored can be quite hard to injure during combat; sudden movements and happenstance shifting the battle so that the Fortune's Favored just manages to dodge blows that would otherwise fell them. At 4th level, as an immediate action, the Fortune's Favored may expend a Luck Die, gaining a luck bonus to their armor class equal to one quarter their class level (minimum +1) for one round. They may use this ability before or after the result of an attack roll against them is known.


The Lucky Number (Ex)
A Fortune's Favored connection to the winds of Luck are far stronger than nearly any other creature; so in tune with it are they that they can willingly sacrifice parts of themselves to strengthen their connection. Once per day, by performing a 10 minute ritual of meditation while surrounded by objects brought to them because of their own luck and accomplishments, the Fortune's Favored can expend 1000 experience points to gain another Luck feat that they don't already possess. They may perform this ritual as often as they wish, but every feat gained past the first costs an additional 1,000 experience points to obtain.


Born Lucky (Ex)
The Fortune's Favored's blessed nature has become so potent that it reaches back retroactively, making them far haler and healthier an individual than they may have been originally. At 8th level, the Fortune's Favored is treated as if they had gotten the maximum result for their previous hit dice from this class. From that point onward, when leveling up, the Fortune's Favored rolls their hit die twice and takes the better of the two results.


Compounded Luck (Su)
For a Fortune's Favored, good luck rarely happens by itself, preferring to bring lots of friends along to make things more interesting. At 9th level, when the Fortune's Favored rolls a maximum result on a dice roll (except with a Luck Die), they may expend a Luck Die. If they do so they, roll the dice a second time, adding the new result to the original result. They may continue doing this as long as they roll a maximum result.


One Person's Luck (Su)
The Fortune's Favored luck can quite easily turn into another person's misfortune. At 14th level, when the Fortune's Favored successfully saves against an ability, spell or other effect, they may expend a Luck Die to rebound it back on its original user. The ability/spell/etc. has the same area of effect, uses the same attack roll and has the same save DC to overcome as it had when used against the Fortune's Favored. The Fortune's Favored may choose to expend an additional Luck Die to choose not only the target of the rebounded effect (within the normal range allowed with the Fortune's Favored as the point of origin from effects that originate from the user) but also replace the save DC with 10+ 1/2 their level + their Charisma modifier (though only if this would be higher than its original DC).


By the Skin of your Teeth (Su)
A Fortune's Favored does not die easy, the fates arranging to preserve the continuation of their destiny. At 16th level, when a Fortune's Favored would be killed, would be rendered unplayable or would lose control of their character, they may expend half of their current Luck dice pool, rounded up, (minimum 1) to negate the effect. Formerly successful attacks instead miss, targeted spells fizzle, area of effects leave curious person shaped holes, damage is prevented, supernatural abilities fail to take hold and similar consequences fall from the use of this class feature.


Siphon Luck (Su)
A Fortune's Favored begins to become not only a paragon of fortuitous success but also a beacon of ill fortune and misery for those who would cross them. At 16th level, when an enemy would activate the Fortune's Favored's Salvaged Luck class feature, they must make a Will Save (DC 10 + one half the Fortune's Favored class level + their Charisma modifier). If they pass, the creature is dazed for a number of rounds equal to the Fortune's Favored's Charisma modifier. If they fail the save, they must roll twice on all dice rolls and take the lower result for a number of rounds equal to the Fortune's Favored's Charisma modifier. Regardless if the pass or fail, a creature can only be affected by a Fortune's Favored's Siphon Luck class feature once per day.


From the Jaws of Defeat (Su)
It is quite hard for a Fortune's Favored to have a bad day or taste the bitter flavor of defeat in their mouth when they do not wish to. At 18th level, the Fortune's Favored may expend half of their current Luck Dice pool, rounded up, to treat a result on any dice roll that is not the maximum value for the roll as if the maximum value had been rolled. This does not activate the Compounded Luck class feature or anything else that would trigger from rolling the maximum result (such as a natural 20 being an automatic success or requiring a critical hit confirmation).


Luck of the Gods
The Fortune's Favored's luck has become so legendary, so influential in the lives of those they have touched or who have even heard of them, that they become a living conduit for Luck itself.
At 20th level, A Fortune's Favored benefits from the following:
Any Luck bonus the Fortune's Favored benefits from is increased by 2 and has its duration increased by one step (to a maximum of one day).
When recovering Luck Dice, the Fortune's Favored regains one additional Luck Die.
The Fortune's Favored receives max hit points on each hit die they received from this class.



This class was inspired mostly by Amechra's Nord's Blade (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4779.msg67484#msg67484). I really like the concept of the class and its execution, but I wanted to try my hand at making something similar that didn't rely on variant rules from Unearthed Arcana or being an Initiator (which is as much a go to "make a good class" feature as spellcasting or manifesting are).



09/01/2014 - Class made.
Six Luck feats added.
Another Lucky Break feat added.

09/02/2014 - Four Luck feats added.
Luck of the Gods luck bonus increased and luck bonus duration modifier increased from doubling duration to increasing it by one step.
Font of Luck and Lucky Start feats added.

09/03/2014 - Lucky Gambler feat removed.
Lucky Skill, Sublime Luck and Lucky Stance feats added.

09/04/2014 - One Person's Luck and From the Jaws of Defeat class features added.
Will save upgraded from Poor to Good.
Luck Die sized increased to d6 and one additional die received at each level.
Lucky Break moved to level 2 and Bonus Feats moved to level 1.
Tied to Fate class feature added.
Forgotten rules text added to Right Place at the Right Time.
Born Lucky class feature rewritten.
Never had a Friend Like Me class feature added.
Luck of the Gods class feature updated.
Clarifying rules text added to Lucky Stance feat.
Additional ability added to Never Had a Friend Like Me.

09/06/2014 - Tied to Fate class feature removed.
Further clarifying rules text added to Luck Dice and Lucky Break class features.
Luck of the Gods class feature updated.
Born Lucky class feature re-written.
Skill points per level increased from 4 to 6.
Cleaned up some language in the Never had a Friend Like Me class feature.

09/07/2014 - Clarifying text added to By the Skin of your Teeth


09/11/2014 - The Lucky Number class feature added.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-01, 12:20 AM
Character Options


Feats


Another Lucky Break [Luck]
Prerequisites: Lucky Break class feature
Benefit: You may use your Lucky Break class feature an additional three times per day.


Attack its Weak Point [Luck]
Prerequisites: Lucky Strike
Benefit: You receive a +2 Luck bonus on damage rolls.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Weapon Specialization for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Better Lucky than Good [Luck]
Benefit: When you would miss an attack roll because of a miss chance (such as from concealment), you may expend a Luck re-roll to re-roll the percentile die to determine whether or not the attack hit.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Blind-fight for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Font of Luck [Luck]
Prerequisites: Character level 6th, three other Luck feats
Benefit: When you would benefit from a Luck bonus, increase its value by 1.
You gain two Luck re-rolls.


For Massive Damage [Luck]
Prerequisites: Attack its Weapon Point, Character level 9th
Benefit: You receive a +4 Luck bonus on attack rolls to confirm a critical hit.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Critical Focus for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Golden Windfall [Luck]
Benefit: When a dice roll is required to determine the amount of currency you receive (such as is on the person of a defeated creature) or the value of item that you do not yet know the value of (such as a piece of art or gemstones), you may expend a Luck re-roll to roll that dice result twice, taking the higher of the two values.
You gain one Luck re-roll.


Lucky Dodge [Luck]
Benefit: You gain a +1 Luck bonus to your armor class.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Dodge for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Lucky Escape [Luck]
Prerequisites: Character level 7th, Two other Luck feats.
Benefit: When under an effect that impedes your movement, you may expend one Luck re-roll to be treated as if under the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell for one round. This is a supernatural ability.
You gain one Luck re-roll.


Lucky Save [Luck]
Benefit: You receive a +2 Luck bonus on saving throws when using the save that you have the lowest total bonus in.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Great Fortitude, Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Lucky Skill [Luck]
Benefit: When you take this feat, select one skill. When making a check with the selected skill (but before you know the result), you may expend a Luck re-roll and roll a d20, declaring it either "even" or "odd". If you correctly guess the die result, you gain a +6 bonus on the check. If you incorrectly guess the die result, you instead only receive a +3 bonus to the check.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, selecting a different skill for it to apply to each time.
This feat counts as Skill Focus for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Lucky Stance [Luck]
Prerequisite: Sublime Luck
Benefit: You gain one stance from any of the disciplines you selected for the Sublime Luck feat that you qualify for.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, selecting another stance from any disciplines you have access to.


Lucky Start [Luck]
Benefit: You receive a +4 Luck bonus on initiative checks.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Improved Initiiative for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Lucky Strike [Luck]
Prerequisites: One other Luck feat
Benefit: You receive a +2 Luck bonus on attack rolls.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Weapon Focus for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Only a Flesh Wound [Luck]
Benefit: You gain two hit points, plus an additional two hit points for every Luck feat you possess other than this one.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: This feat counts as Toughness for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.


Sublime Luck [Luck]
Benefit: When taking this feat you select one Martial Discipline and gain a martial maneuver that you qualify for. You begin an encounter with the selected maneuver readied and may expend a Luck re-roll to recover it.
You gain one Luck re-roll.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, selecting either another martial maneuver from the discipline you previously selected or you may select a new discipline and learn a maneuver from that discipline. You may only select up to three disciplines through the use of this feat. If you would later gain levels in an initiating class you use that class's recovery method for recovering maneuvers.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-01, 12:22 AM
Another Reserved Post

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-01, 12:17 PM
Alright, I've added six Luck feats, in case your Pathfinder GM won't allow you to use either 3.5 material or other homebrew.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-02, 02:28 PM
Added another four feats.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-02, 07:59 PM
So, I forgot that the Fate's Favored trait existed and doubling durations can be pitifully small; the equivalent of a first level bonus and a handful of extra rounds make a pitiful capstone (even if its only part of the whole package). As such, I've beefed it up.

Added two more Luck feats too.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-03, 09:11 PM
Added three more Luck feats.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-04, 07:17 AM
Added two new class feature to fill out spots in the later levels where you'd go awhile getting only a Lucky Break or a Luck feat.

kestrel404
2014-09-04, 11:05 AM
I like the concept. Execution looks good but needs a bit of tweaking.

BAB 3/4 is good. Only one good save? I'd recommend either no good saves or 3 good saves on this class, honestly - it's got that kind of feel to it. If you're going to make it no good saves, having Cha bonus added to saving throws starting at, say, 3rd level. Specifically doesn't stack with the paladin ability or similar.



The very core of a Fortune's Favored prodigious good fortune is their ability to inherently push events into their favor. The Fortune's Favored begins each day with a number of "Luck Dice" as denoted on the table above. Whenever they are required to make a dice roll to determine the results of an action undertaken or reacted to, they may choose to expend one of their Luck Dice. If they choose to do this, they roll a 1d4 and add the result as a Luck bonus to the dice roll they wish to modify. A Fortune's Favored may elect to expend multiple Luck Dice on a single dice roll to be modified, but can only expend a number of Luck Dice on a single dice result equal to one quarter their total levels in this class (minimum 1). Expending Luck Dice in this manner requires no action and is considered part of the action that the modified dice roll uses. A Luck Dice cannot be expended to modify the result of another Luck Dice.

Recovering Luck Dice

Once expended, there are only a few way that a Fortune's Favored can gain back their precious resource:
By resting for eight, uninterrupted, hours the Fortune's Favored regains all their expended Luck Dice.
If their Luck Dice pool is empty, a Fortune's Favored regains a single Luck Die at the beginning of an encounter.
If the Fortune's Favored rolls a maximum result on a die (such as a 20 on a d20 or a 12 on a d12), they regain one Luck Die. This does not apply to rolling a 4 on a Luck Die.
By benefiting from their Salvaged Fortune class feature (detailed below)


Luck Dice and Other Rerolls

When a Fortune's Favored gains access to another ability/class feature/feat/racial trait/etc. that would grant them the ability to re-roll a dice result (other than their Lucky Break class feature), they instead increase the maximum size of their Luck Dice pool by one. They may also expend dice from their Luck Dice pool (at a one to one ratio) to fuel any such ability/class feature/feat/racial trait/etc. Expending Luck Dice in this manner uses the same type of action that using the ability/etc. normally would require.

Needs a bit of balance work.
Most glaring issue is regaining a luck die on maxing out any die - which means the fairy rolling d2 for damage (and adding luck dice for ACTUAL damage) is going to be recharging constantly. I would instead limit this to d20 rolls.
Balancing that, I would suggest making the luck die a d6. I would also suggest giving 2 dice of starting luck - even at first level, having only the one is a bit harsh.




Lucky Break (Ex)
Things always just seem to go the right way for a Fortune's Favored. They always strike the sweet spot on a foe for massive damage, they always find the right handhold on a rock face and they always manage to resist outside influences that would bring them to ruin. Starting at 1st level, a Fortune's Favored selects one of the kinds of dice rolls listed below and may choose to re-roll a result and take the higher of the two. They select an additional type of action to be affected for every two levels they possess past the first, to a maximum of ten at 19th level. The Fortune's Favored can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + their Charisma modifier.

Ability checks
Attack rolls
Combat maneuver checks
Critical hit confirmations
Damage rolls
Dice based healing
Initiative checks
Saving throws
Skill checks
Stabilization checks

I like it, but you're too top-heavy. Move this to 2nd level - but leave the upgrade at level 3 & odd levels.

Salvaged Luck (Su) - This looks good.

Bonus Feat - Looks fine.

Right Place at the Right Time (Su) - Looks fine, though you may want to specify that they can use this AFTER the attack against them has been rolled. That way, they're not constantly expending their immediate action on 'just in case' armor bonuses. Also, I'd change the wording of the last sentance to 'until the start of their next turn'.

Born Lucky (Ex) - This one would be a real annoyance at the table. The idea is sound, but rather than having it be retroactive on a per-die basis, have the FF re-roll ALL previous HD at once (specify no luck dice on this roll), and go with the better result. Then they can do 2 dice, choose the best at 8th and every subsequent level.

Compounded Luck (Su) - Oh, I like that one. Although, you might consider making it so that they don't have to spend again on subsequent maximum-rolls of that die. Once you use this ability, then that die re-rolls automatically for every maxed value, rather than just once, until it rolls something else.

One Person's Luck (Su) - Looks fine, though I would raise the initial cost to 2 luck dice, and maybe remove the second section. There are some effects that you simply don't want to raise the save DC on.

By the Skin of your Teeth (Su) - Rather than a flat cost (which the FF probably won't have available to pay - keeping 1/2 your luck dice pool in reserve would be both difficult and annoying against the kind of enemy that could kill the PC) perhaps make this a damage reducer. When taking damage, or maybe when they're about to drop below 0 HP, the FF can choose to roll luck dice, and reduce the value of the damage by the results of those dice.

Siphon Luck (Su) - Pass should, at most, daze for 1 round. That's a fairly harsh ability regardless, considering this happens when the enemy rolls HIGH.

From the Jaws of Defeat (Su) - For some reason, I just don't like this one. It seems...cheap. Even if the cost is high, it's the 'I never fail' power. Maybe just make the FF immune to botching? They can spend X luck dice to turn any 1 die to the average value of that die?

Luck of the Gods - I would say to give them the Native Outsider template? Then let them re-roll their HD again? Oh, and I really like that 'lend luck' ability - it would be really nice to be able to have that as a class feature earlier than 20th level.

Hope that helps.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-04, 12:27 PM
I like the concept. Execution looks good but needs a bit of tweaking.

Thank you kindly for taking the time to look this over. :smallsmile:


BAB 3/4 is good. Only one good save? I'd recommend either no good saves or 3 good saves on this class, honestly - it's got that kind of feel to it. If you're going to make it no good saves, having Cha bonus added to saving throws starting at, say, 3rd level. Specifically doesn't stack with the paladin ability or similar.

I was using the Rogue chassis originally, but now that I think about it, Bard would have made more sense, since I only found the Nord's Blade originally to compliment the Archaelogist Bard archetype. I might switch over to all good saves if the class needs a little more oomph.




Needs a bit of balance work.
Most glaring issue is regaining a luck die on maxing out any die - which means the fairy rolling d2 for damage (and adding luck dice for ACTUAL damage) is going to be recharging constantly. I would instead limit this to d20 rolls.

Are there any diminutive size category fey printed? The biggest issue would be the Animal Shapes Druid spell, but that doesn't come online till level 14 and I have to wonder if it'd be unbalanced at that level for the trade off. The issue with limiting it to just d20 rolls is that you'd only have a 5% chance of recovering. Maybe pick a decent size die and limit it to that and up? Something to look into.


Balancing that, I would suggest making the luck die a d6. I would also suggest giving 2 dice of starting luck - even at first level, having only the one is a bit harsh.

When this was originally on the drawing board, I had been allowing half your level of dice to be added to checks, so a d6 meant a +10 to +60 bonus (which is why I reduced it to a d4). I changed it to quarter your level though when I actually typed this up and never revisited the math; +5 to +30 is far more reasonable.

And I guess I was thinking "why wouldn't you start off with a Luck feat", thus meaning you would technically begin with two dice, but that's pigeonholed thinking.




I like it, but you're too top-heavy. Move this to 2nd level - but leave the upgrade at level 3 & odd levels.

Is it really top heavy though? I mean, you get to re-roll one type of dice rolls X amount of times per day and a variable bonus on most checks. Casters, manifestors and (now with Path of War) initiators get more options at level 1 than that.



Right Place at the Right Time (Su) - Looks fine, though you may want to specify that they can use this AFTER the attack against them has been rolled. That way, they're not constantly expending their immediate action on 'just in case' armor bonuses.

Right; I knew I was forgetting something on that one.


Also, I'd change the wording of the last sentance to 'until the start of their next turn'.

I wrote it with the capstone in mind.


Born Lucky (Ex) - This one would be a real annoyance at the table. The idea is sound, but rather than having it be retroactive on a per-die basis, have the FF re-roll ALL previous HD at once (specify no luck dice on this roll), and go with the better result. Then they can do 2 dice, choose the best at 8th and every subsequent level.

Wait, so roll 7 HD and take the best of the 8 as what they had rolled on all the previous dice? So if they had gone 8/1/4/5/2/3/1 and one of the seven dice they rolled for this class feature is an 8, they are now treated as if their HD rolls had been 8/8/8/8/8/8/8?


Compounded Luck (Su) - Oh, I like that one. Although, you might consider making it so that they don't have to spend again on subsequent maximum-rolls of that die. Once you use this ability, then that die re-rolls automatically for every maxed value, rather than just once, until it rolls something else.

Hm, something to definitely mull over.


One Person's Luck (Su) - Looks fine, though I would raise the initial cost to 2 luck dice, and maybe remove the second section. There are some effects that you simply don't want to raise the save DC on.

Can you think of any?


By the Skin of your Teeth (Su) - Rather than a flat cost (which the FF probably won't have available to pay - keeping 1/2 your luck dice pool in reserve would be both difficult and annoying against the kind of enemy that could kill the PC) perhaps make this a damage reducer. When taking damage, or maybe when they're about to drop below 0 HP, the FF can choose to roll luck dice, and reduce the value of the damage by the results of those dice.

It's half your current, not half your total, so if you only had 1 left, you'd blow 1 to activate this. And it was intended to work against ability damage, death effects, petrification and other such nasty things, not just getting whacked too hard with a hammer.


Siphon Luck (Su) - Pass should, at most, daze for 1 round. That's a fairly harsh ability regardless, considering this happens when the enemy rolls HIGH.

Well, it is a 16th level SoL, but something I'll definitely revisit.


From the Jaws of Defeat (Su) - For some reason, I just don't like this one. It seems...cheap. Even if the cost is high, it's the 'I never fail' power. Maybe just make the FF immune to botching? They can spend X luck dice to turn any 1 die to the average value of that die?

It was based on certain Luck feats from Complete Scoundrel, but I see your point. What if it only applies when they roll the minimum result on a die?


Luck of the Gods - I would say to give them the Native Outsider template? Then let them re-roll their HD again? Oh, and I really like that 'lend luck' ability - it would be really nice to be able to have that as a class feature earlier than 20th level.

See, I used to just hand out that typing (or similar type chances) with several of the classes I've done in the past and I feel like, while a nice thing, it's too boring. Why exactly would you like to see the typing given to the Fortune's Favored? For eternal youth? I can work with that, if so, and I can work in a HD re-roll like ability.

I can also see if I can move the luck lending further down the tree.


Hope that helps.

It does. :smallsmile:

Any opinions on the Luck feats?

kestrel404
2014-09-04, 07:03 PM
First, feats:

Most of them are just fine. Font of luck might actually be a touch much with the constant bonus to ALL luck bonuses, given that many of your other feats grant luck bonuses, and how you've got a theme of 'like this standard feat, but better, and counts for meeting requirements'. It's one of those 'and of course I have to take this feat' deals - so good it's not really an option, just part of the bonus calculations once you hit the level you can take it.

For the same reason, Lucky Strike is definitely excessive - you never see more than a +1 to hit in a feat, usually with a situations (if almost-always relevant) condition attached. This is a straight +2/+3 at 6th level (because Font of Luck) which applies all the time. AND you get that extra luck re-roll/luck die. I would make the bonus only +1, AND situational (only applies when using luck dice or re-rolls from luck?) - and then when they pick up Font of Luck it goes to +2, which is still better than most other combat-bonus feats, especially with the free re-roll.

Also, add something about needing to qualify for the stance you pick up with Lucky Stance - otherwise, those 8th level stances on 3rd level characters are going to be a bit excessive.

I'd also suggest adding a couple of feats giving additional methods of recharging luck dice - like sacrificing spell slots for multiclassed spellcaster/FF builds, or


Are there any diminutive size category fey printed? The biggest issue would be the Animal Shapes Druid spell, but that doesn't come online till level 14 and I have to wonder if it'd be unbalanced at that level for the trade off. The issue with limiting it to just d20 rolls is that you'd only have a 5% chance of recovering. Maybe pick a decent size die and limit it to that and up? Something to look into.

There are already a number of ways to recharge those luck dice. I suppose if you limit it to d8 or higher it would prevent most shenanigans with using large sneak-attack pools or certain lots-of-dice spells (from wands or through multi-class) just to recharge luck (that was my other thought). But in that case, I'd also limit it to 1 point recharged per round.


Is it really top heavy though? I mean, you get to re-roll one type of dice rolls X amount of times per day and a variable bonus on most checks. Casters, manifestors and (now with Path of War) initiators get more options at level 1 than that.

I was thinking that for a rocket-launcher-sorceror or similar build, getting 8+ initiative re-rolls for a 1-level dip, plus other bonuses, would be a no-brainer at higher levels, even with the loss of a caster level. Basically, the 3+Cha re-rolls for (whichever roll is most important to build) at the cost of 1 level would be a serious temptation, and make this something of a 1-and-done class for a lot of concepts. That's not really as important for homebrew as the main classes, but it's still a thing I think about.


Wait, so roll 7 HD and take the best of the 8 as what they had rolled on all the previous dice? So if they had gone 8/1/4/5/2/3/1 and one of the seven dice they rolled for this class feature is an 8, they are now treated as if their HD rolls had been 8/8/8/8/8/8/8?

Basically, once I've gotten to level 8, I don't remember what I rolled for hit points at levels 2 & 3 (or probably 4,5 or 6 either for that matter). So when you hit level 8, you say: I have a +2 con bonus, 7d8 HD and a HP total of 44. I will now roll 7d8, get a 32, add 14, come up with 46. Since 46 is better than 44, my new HP total is 46! Now I get to roll 2d8 for my level 8 HP, and choose the higher! That's what I was going for.


Can you think of any?
Poisons, diseases, some of the more esoteric monster abilities which cause Save-or-X at relatively low save DCs for the CR? Most or all of those can be loaded onto spells, and having the save DC changed would be annoying, lethal, or weird.


It's half your current, not half your total, so if you only had 1 left, you'd blow 1 to activate this. And it was intended to work against ability damage, death effects, petrification and other such nasty things, not just getting whacked too hard with a hammer.

Ah, that makes sense.


It was based on certain Luck feats from Complete Scoundrel, but I see your point. What if it only applies when they roll the minimum result on a die?

Didn't want to suggest that, because it's pretty weak at that level - unless you turn botches into criticals (a different luck feat) which is pretty sweet even at high levels.


See, I used to just hand out that typing (or similar type chances) with several of the classes I've done in the past and I feel like, while a nice thing, it's too boring. Why exactly would you like to see the typing given to the Fortune's Favored? For eternal youth? I can work with that, if so, and I can work in a HD re-roll like ability.

I can also see if I can move the luck lending further down the tree.

Mostly, I was thinking the higher racial HD would combo well with the HD re-roll mechanics already present. Switch to outsider HD, re-roll existing HP with higher HD, as previous. Outsiders also get some interesting esoteric benefits - and esoteric is a good thing in relation to this class. Mostly, it just feels right on this class, like with the saves thing.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-04, 08:54 PM
First, feats:

Most of them are just fine. Font of luck might actually be a touch much with the constant bonus to ALL luck bonuses, given that many of your other feats grant luck bonuses, and how you've got a theme of 'like this standard feat, but better, and counts for meeting requirements'. It's one of those 'and of course I have to take this feat' deals - so good it's not really an option, just part of the bonus calculations once you hit the level you can take it.

For the same reason, Lucky Strike is definitely excessive - you never see more than a +1 to hit in a feat, usually with a situations (if almost-always relevant) condition attached. This is a straight +2/+3 at 6th level (because Font of Luck) which applies all the time. AND you get that extra luck re-roll/luck die. I would make the bonus only +1, AND situational (only applies when using luck dice or re-rolls from luck?) - and then when they pick up Font of Luck it goes to +2, which is still better than most other combat-bonus feats, especially with the free re-roll.

Font of Luck is actually gained much later than the earlier mentioned Fate's Favored, which you can nab for free at level 1 if your game hands out traits as part and parcel or for a feat (along with another trait) if the game doesn't just hand them out.

I'd be inclined on Lucky Strike to agree if Weapon Focus wasn't universally held as a horrible feat and generally house ruled to scale up to +5 at a minimum. You can't even say it gets too good on the Fortune's Favored because Luck bonuses don't stack.

Of the Luck feats peers, only Improved Initiative has ever really been held as a good feat and that's still untyped as a bonus.


Also, add something about needing to qualify for the stance you pick up with Lucky Stance - otherwise, those 8th level stances on 3rd level characters are going to be a bit excessive.

Right, my bad. It's not as strongly implied as I meant for it to be.


I'd also suggest adding a couple of feats giving additional methods of recharging luck dice - like sacrificing spell slots for multiclassed spellcaster/FF builds, or

Or?

I'd have to think how to balance a spell sacrificing feat, since in some cases a Luck Die is far superior to a low level spell.



There are already a number of ways to recharge those luck dice. I suppose if you limit it to d8 or higher it would prevent most shenanigans with using large sneak-attack pools or certain lots-of-dice spells (from wands or through multi-class) just to recharge luck (that was my other thought). But in that case, I'd also limit it to 1 point recharged per round.

I think you might be making more out of that than there's actually something there. The odds of rolling a maximum result on a die drops significantly for every additional die you add, so limiting it to d6 and up should be fine (10d6 is ~.000002% of them all coming up maximum and an uncapped blasting spell would be even smaller). This is something I think can only be really determined through playtesting.



I was thinking that for a rocket-launcher-sorceror or similar build, getting 8+ initiative re-rolls for a 1-level dip, plus other bonuses, would be a no-brainer at higher levels, even with the loss of a caster level. Basically, the 3+Cha re-rolls for (whichever roll is most important to build) at the cost of 1 level would be a serious temptation, and make this something of a 1-and-done class for a lot of concepts. That's not really as important for homebrew as the main classes, but it's still a thing I think about.

How the game would be better without Tier 2 and up. :smallsigh:

I have an idea how to fix that.



Basically, once I've gotten to level 8, I don't remember what I rolled for hit points at levels 2 & 3 (or probably 4,5 or 6 either for that matter). So when you hit level 8, you say: I have a +2 con bonus, 7d8 HD and a HP total of 44. I will now roll 7d8, get a 32, add 14, come up with 46. Since 46 is better than 44, my new HP total is 46! Now I get to roll 2d8 for my level 8 HP, and choose the higher! That's what I was going for.

But that doesn't take into account if you had rolled 28, with a total of 42. Would you just keep rolling over and over till you got higher? That seems more time consuming than the original idea.



Poisons, diseases, some of the more esoteric monster abilities which cause Save-or-X at relatively low save DCs for the CR? Most or all of those can be loaded onto spells, and having the save DC changed would be annoying, lethal, or weird.

Poisons and Diseases are already pretty weak and useless against NPCs and I don't see an issue with turning a Save or X back on its user. Could you please explain more thoroughly the point you're trying to make concerning this ability? :smallsmile:



Didn't want to suggest that, because it's pretty weak at that level - unless you turn botches into criticals (a different luck feat) which is pretty sweet even at high levels.

Have it affect all minimum rolls for 1 round then?



Mostly, I was thinking the higher racial HD would combo well with the HD re-roll mechanics already present. Switch to outsider HD, re-roll existing HP with higher HD, as previous. Outsiders also get some interesting esoteric benefits - and esoteric is a good thing in relation to this class. Mostly, it just feels right on this class, like with the saves thing.

But all being a Native Outsider gets you is immunity to some spells and proficiency with weapons. The RHD bump doesn't affect you with just a type change, because you don't have any RHD to improve.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-04, 09:42 PM
Alright, made several changes to the class; check the change log for specifics.

Now to fill those four dead levels....

Edit:

Nevermind, had an idea.

gr8artist
2014-09-05, 03:20 AM
Ok, I'm going to spitball all the things that jump out at me, in no particular order.

Personally, I've been thinking that base classes should have simple 1-word names. Ranger, Fighter, Sorcerer... Fortunist? This is, of course, a purely thematic preference, but just my line of thinking.
You have a lot of skills, but not a lot of skill ranks.
Your luck dice follow the same progression as good saves... was that intentional?
The description for Luck Dice should probably not be in spoilers.
Can luck dice be used when taking 10 or 20? You may also want to specify d20, or better yet to specify the type of action that you can affect (saves, attack and combat maneuver checks, caster level checks, skill checks, ability checks) because as it stands there are a few niche cases like d% checks that can benefit from LD.
LD used to be d4's, and now they're d6's. I would suggest having them start as d4's and progress to d6's and d8's as you level. But that's just because I like power curves, especially for non-casters. A caster gets more spells, like you get more dice, but his spells are also getting stronger, while your dice remain the same.
When EXACTLY can you choose to apply LD? Before rolling a check, after rolling but before knowing outcomes, or after knowing outcomes?
You may want to define "encounter" for the regaining of LD. As a skill/exploration specialist, you might be under the impression that each trap is its own encounter, or something similar.
Spellcaster/FF's will get a lot of mileage out of "max result on a die" restoration when throwing fireballs and such.
I'm not a fan of the phrasing for the "LD and other rerolls" paragraph, but there's nothing actually wrong with it. You do need to clarify if LD let you use 1/day rerolls more often than 1/day.
Salvaged luck can trigger twice on a good attack roll followed by a good damage roll. I would advise the same cautions you gave me; limit the HD or CR of the victim, so he can't just farm LD by killing mice. I would actually remove the damage clause, and add in saves and other d20 rolls.
What's the purpose of Tied to Fate? I haven't read the thread, but it seems really out of place by PF standards.
How does Lucky Break interact with LD rerolls. Is it separate, or does it essentially add 3+cha to your LD pool? Each option has its perks.
LB also says it starts at 1st level. And personally, I'm not a fan of choosing the order, if you're going to end with all 10 anyway. If it were me, you'd get specific checks and rolls at certain levels.
Wording clarification is kinda' needed for NHaFLM, where is says that he reduces "their" LD pool by 1. It reads like it takes a LD from the target.
Is the LD reduction from NHaFLM different from a spent LD, or not?
Born Lucky doesn't sit right... the chances of getting too low are still there, and would seriously nerf a character. I would instead suggest rolling 8 dice, and keeping the higher total (current or the new result) or rolling 16 dice and keeping the highest 8 from among them. Or heck, just maximize their first 8 HD. And what's the adjustment for the common "max HD" houserule?
I'd make Compounded Luck a free perk. Nat 20's auto succeed attacks and saves, so it's really only for CL checks (not a spellcaster) or for skill checks, and giving a 1d20 bonus on 5% of skill checks is not OP at all. If you intend it to work on damage rolls however, you need to specify how it works with spells, and whether it's 1 LD per open-ended die, or for the whole check/action, or per each instance of the open-ended die.
I would not allow One Person's Luck to affect any creatures other than the casting character, or else you'll get some seriously metagamey action between your players casting spells to hit a bunch of creatures twice.
Does Skin of Your Teeth work on death by HP damage? How so? And it should probably take all your LD.
I think you got Siphon Luck backwards. Success on the save to negate the effect should give you the less of two rolls, while failure causes you to be dazed.
From the Jaws of Defeat is too costly early in the day, and too cheap when running low on LD. Consider a flat cost instead, or a different cost depending on die size (d8, d10, or d12 = 1 / d20 = 3) Again, can you choose to do this after seeing the result of a roll?

I know that all looks like a lot, but rerolls are one of the most rule/nitpick specific mechanics, and rerolls for every type of check or roll under the sun mean a lot of book-keeping and possible glitches here and there.
I like the class, and it looks like it could be fun, though it seems to fall into an interesting niche. A single concept, explored in depth, as the solution to every problem. Good at everything without having any features or powers that really make it shine at anything in particular, except probably skill use.

Amechra
2014-09-05, 04:58 AM
Cough.

Why is Tied to Fate there? Why? It needlessly restricts character options, and in a way that feels extremely artificial.

Losing your class features for changing your alignment? Sure, alignment is an in-game concept.

Losing your class features because you took Fortune's Favored at 1st level, and then decided to take a level in Barbarian because it made perfect sense for your character? Not good.

What about with Gestalt? You automatically lose all benefits of Fortune's Favored because of the other side of the Gestalt.

If you decide to multiclass into Fortune's Favored... I hope you like not having class features from the class you multiclassed into for a few level ever. Because Tied to Fate is written in such a way that you lose all class features permanently, with no way of regaining them, if you meet the criteria.

You might as well just say they can't multiclass at all; it's a lot more transparent and won't have any weird loopholes that screw you over for out of character decisions.

Alternatively, just focus on making your class like a good videogame; have the players be muttering "just one more level" under their breaths as they build their characters.

A good class doesn't need an artificial restriction on its progression; and, quite frankly, that particular class feature feels like a kludge, a silly tribute to the "No dead levels" and "People should want to play every level of your class" mantras.

I'll come back with more (which will hopefully be a bit more positive) later.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-05, 08:50 PM
Ok, I'm going to spitball all the things that jump out at me, in no particular order.

Personally, I've been thinking that base classes should have simple 1-word names. Ranger, Fighter, Sorcerer... Fortunist? This is, of course, a purely thematic preference, but just my line of thinking.

Well, I couldn't think of anything more poignant and I didn't want to have to parse latin or make something nonsensical up. Might give a hand at it though if it's that disconcerting.


You have a lot of skills, but not a lot of skill ranks.

Well, I thought that being able to boost your skill results might warrant a lower skill per level yield, but it's something I'll look at.


Your luck dice follow the same progression as good saves... was that intentional?

It...kind of just fell like that when I bumped up how many you got per level. :smallbiggrin:


The description for Luck Dice should probably not be in spoilers.

I just tend to do that with things I find wordy and long, but I can remove it if that's an impediment to comprehension.


Can luck dice be used when taking 10 or 20? You may also want to specify d20, or better yet to specify the type of action that you can affect (saves, attack and combat maneuver checks, caster level checks, skill checks, ability checks) because as it stands there are a few niche cases like d% checks that can benefit from LD.

Yes and I didn't take d% into consideration when setting this up. I'll make clarifies on what Luck Dice can be applied to.


LD used to be d4's, and now they're d6's. I would suggest having them start as d4's and progress to d6's and d8's as you level. But that's just because I like power curves, especially for non-casters. A caster gets more spells, like you get more dice, but his spells are also getting stronger, while your dice remain the same.

While I can see an argument for having the d6s becoming d8s, I don't want to downgrade them back down to d4s. A +1 to +6 bonus feels nice for pre-8 characters and I'd only downgrade again if there was a proven balance issue.


When EXACTLY can you choose to apply LD? Before rolling a check, after rolling but before knowing outcomes, or after knowing outcomes?

At any point, but I'll add clarifying text.


You may want to define "encounter" for the regaining of LD. As a skill/exploration specialist, you might be under the impression that each trap is its own encounter, or something similar.

I don't think any per encounter ability has ever been strictly defined and I feel like trying to might just end up being an arbitrary thing on the class writer's part. I feel like it should be left up to the game's GM.


Spellcaster/FF's will get a lot of mileage out of "max result on a die" restoration when throwing fireballs and such.

I pointed out in the thread earlier (I know, you said you haven't read it fully yet), the likelihood of that (all of a 5d6 fireball coming up for example) is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 1% chance.


I'm not a fan of the phrasing for the "LD and other rerolls" paragraph, but there's nothing actually wrong with it. You do need to clarify if LD let you use 1/day rerolls more often than 1/day.

I thought that was implied, but I'll clarify.


Salvaged luck can trigger twice on a good attack roll followed by a good damage roll. I would advise the same cautions you gave me; limit the HD or CR of the victim, so he can't just farm LD by killing mice. I would actually remove the damage clause, and add in saves and other d20 rolls.

Valid point to raise, but let's try a hypothetical:
A level 20 Fortune's Favored is attacking a surprised rat.
The rat, being flat footed, has an AC of 12.
The Fortune's Friend invested in Strength or Dexterity to get a 30, has a +5 magic weapon, burned 5 Luck Dice, got 6s on all of them and rolled a 20.
That's a result of 80 against an AC of 12, leaving 68 over-success.
The Fortune's Favored would regain 13 Luck Dice, but only gets a net gain of 8 Dice because of the expenditure.
With Luck of the Gods that's instead 26, which means 21 dice

So it seems the issue is with the double recovery rate, not Salvaged Luck. I think it's reasonable to get 9 dice for the cost of 5 on an unlikely confluence of events (this is assuming FJD is changed to only working on minimum results).


What's the purpose of Tied to Fate? I haven't read the thread, but it seems really out of place by PF standards.

It was pointed out that by dipping into this class, a caster (specifically a Sorcerer) could basically get "Initiative: Yes". It seemed like a simple way to kill cherry picking.


How does Lucky Break interact with LD rerolls. Is it separate, or does it essentially add 3+cha to your LD pool? Each option has its perks.

I thought I had specified that it was the former.


LB also says it starts at 1st level. And personally, I'm not a fan of choosing the order, if you're going to end with all 10 anyway. If it were me, you'd get specific checks and rolls at certain levels.

I don't feel like you could set them without it feeling arbitrary, since some of them are definitely better choices than others.


Wording clarification is kinda' needed for NHaFLM, where is says that he reduces "their" LD pool by 1. It reads like it takes a LD from the target.

I'll clarify.


Is the LD reduction from NHaFLM different from a spent LD, or not?

I forgot the word "size" apparently.


Born Lucky doesn't sit right... the chances of getting too low are still there, and would seriously nerf a character. I would instead suggest rolling 8 dice, and keeping the higher total (current or the new result) or rolling 16 dice and keeping the highest 8 from among them. Or heck, just maximize their first 8 HD. And what's the adjustment for the common "max HD" houserule?

I'll fiddle with it again, but I'm not taking into account potential house rules; that's that particular table's problem to sort out.


and in a way that feels extremely artificial.

Losing your class features for changing your alignment? Sure, alignment is an in-game concept.

Losing your class features because you took Fortune's Favored at 1st level, and then decided to take a level in Barbarian because it made perfect sense for your character? Not good.

I'm contemplating removing Tied to Fate and changing it so Luck Dice and Lucky Break can't be used with spells or powers, which was why it was created in the first place. That doesn't solve the Celerity problem though. Hm...


What about with Gestalt? You automatically lose all benefits of Fortune's Favored because of the other side of the Gestalt.

That's...not how Gestalt works?



A good class doesn't need an artificial restriction on its progression; and, quite frankly, that particular class feature feels like a kludge, a silly tribute to the "No dead levels" and "People should want to play every level of your class" mantras.

No, it's a spot welded "Casters have to ruin everything".


I'll come back with more (which will hopefully be a bit more positive) later.

Alrighty.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-06, 04:49 PM
Updated the class to address some issues that were pointed out.

Illven
2014-09-06, 06:05 PM
I like the class just one concern, by the skin of your teeth makes them immune to death.

Because half of 0 is 0. There's nothing to round up. I'd put a note saying you need to have at least 1 point for the ability to function.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-06, 06:19 PM
I like the class just one concern, by the skin of your teeth makes them immune to death.

Because half of 0 is 0. There's nothing to round up. I'd put a note saying you need to have at least 1 point for the ability to function.


No, 0 is the lack of dice. You can't expend an absence of a number.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-07, 11:12 AM
Made an update to nip any kind of nitpicking in the bud.

gr8artist
2014-09-08, 11:29 AM
Update your class table and formatting in the abilities section to show the basics of the Luck Dice system (and the fact that it IS a class feature they get at 1st level) at least, then spoiler the wordy parts if you want.

This text:
If the Fortune's Favored rolls a maximum result on a die (such as a 20 on a d20 or a 12 on a d12), they regain one Luck Die. This does not apply to any dice smaller than a d6 or Luck Dice. is what makes fireballs OP. If even one die from the attack is maxed, you gain a luck die. There are some low level spells like Acid Arrow that deal plenty of dice, and d4's have a 25% chance of giving you a luck die. It's not an overpowered mechanic, but it is something to consider. Also, make sure no one thinks this works when taking 20.
Also, you realize this makes Compounded Luck a free ability, right?



I would not allow One Person's Luck to affect any creatures other than the casting character, or else you'll get some seriously metagamey action between your players casting spells to hit a bunch of creatures twice.
Can you give an example?
Spoilered for size.
The Fortune's Favored luck can quite easily turn into another person's misfortune. At 14th level, when the Fortune's Favored successfully saves against an ability, spell or other effect, they may expend a Luck Die to rebound it back on its original user. The ability/spell/etc. has the same area of effect, uses the same attack roll and has the same save DC to overcome as it had when used against the Fortune's Favored. The Fortune's Favored may choose to expend an additional Luck Die to choose not only the target of the rebounded effect (within the normal range allowed with the Fortune's Favored as the point of origin from effects that originate from the user) but also replace the save DC with 10+ 1/2 their level + their Charisma modifier (though only if this would be higher than its original DC).
If I have a caster on the left, a FF on the right, and an unlucky sap in the middle, and the caster shoots a lightning bolt through the sap and at the FF, but the FF uses this ability on a successful save, what happens? Does the lightning bolt reflect back and hit the sap a second time? What's that MM feat that improves the save DC for 1 target of an area spell?

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-08, 08:31 PM
Update your class table and formatting in the abilities section to show the basics of the Luck Dice system (and the fact that it IS a class feature they get at 1st level) at least, then spoiler the wordy parts if you want.

I honestly have no clue what you're trying to say here.


This text: is what makes fireballs OP. If even one die from the attack is maxed, you gain a luck die. There are some low level spells like Acid Arrow that deal plenty of dice, and d4's have a 25% chance of giving you a luck die. It's not an overpowered mechanic, but it is something to consider.

One of the updates I made was that the maximum result clause only applies to the d6 or higher (meaning only a ~17% of recovering a die).


Also, make sure no one thinks this works when taking 20.

You don't technically roll dice when you're taking 20 though.


Also, you realize this makes Compounded Luck a free ability, right?

It's at best a zero sum cost ability, not a free one (since it can be used on the 1d4, 1d3 and the 1d2, but only a 1d6 or higher recovers a die).



Spoilered for size.

I...know what the class feature I wrote says? o.o


If I have a caster on the left, a FF on the right, and an unlucky sap in the middle, and the caster shoots a lightning bolt through the sap and at the FF, but the FF uses this ability on a successful save, what happens? Does the lightning bolt reflect back and hit the sap a second time?

In the situation, yes, you'd hit the poor sap twice. But evocation is the weakest school of magic and a caster worth their salt is going to already have the Save DC be comparable to what the FF could change it to. Might be a bit of a weird interaction, but I wouldn't call that a necessarily broken example.


What's that MM feat that improves the save DC for 1 target of an area spell?

No clue.

gr8artist
2014-09-08, 09:54 PM
Luck Dice is not listed on your class table anymore, and since the whole text is in a spoiler, it looks less like a class feature and more like a marginal note or something.
Write it up like the other class features, then spoiler the parts that make it too bulky or whatever. It's an aesthetic/comprehension change.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-09, 07:09 AM
Luck Dice is not listed on your class table anymore, and since the whole text is in a spoiler, it looks less like a class feature and more like a marginal note or something.
Write it up like the other class features, then spoiler the parts that make it too bulky or whatever. It's an aesthetic/comprehension change.

I don't believe Luck Dice was ever in the class feature column (Lucky Break had been listed at level 1 and then moved to level 2), but I see your point on it being potentially confused for notation.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-10, 06:42 PM
Hm...do y'all think I've written up enough Luck feats?

Amechra
2014-09-10, 06:43 PM
Nope. You'll be done once you've written 50-ish.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-10, 06:58 PM
Nope. You'll be done once you've written 50-ish.

xD

I don't even know what else I'd honestly do. :smalltongue:

Amechra
2014-09-11, 12:23 AM
1. Pay for Divine feats with Luck Rerolls instead of Turn Undead uses.
2. Allow you to spend up to two Rerolls on a roll to roll it three times and take the best.
3. Allow you to take 10 on any Reroll you make, regardless of whether or not you could normally do so in the situation (or with that kind of roll).
4. Allow you to take 10 on any Reroll retroactively, letting you replace your roll value with 10 if you don't like it.
5. Spend a Luck Reroll, get an extra 5-ft Step.
6. Spend a Luck Reroll to duplicate a Knock effect, but only if you haven't previously checked to see if whatever it is you're opening has been locked.
7. Spend a Reroll to 'reroll' a skill that can't be used Untrained that you have no ranks in; Beginner's Luck!
8. Whenever you succeed on a reroll, you get a +2 Circumstance bonus on your next reroll within the next minute.
9. Pick a Luck feat; you can use it as an Immediate action to affect an ally's roll.
10. Whenever you succeed on a reroll, the next opposed check made against you takes a -2 Circumstance penalty.

I can keep going. :smallwink:

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-11, 06:37 AM
1. Pay for Divine feats with Luck Rerolls instead of Turn Undead uses.

Pathfinder; such things do not yet exist in the rules.


2. Allow you to spend up to two Rerolls on a roll to roll it three times and take the best.

There's an idea. Hm...is Luck of the Gods a sufficient capstone?


3. Allow you to take 10 on any Reroll you make, regardless of whether or not you could normally do so in the situation (or with that kind of roll).

Thought about that one.


4. Allow you to take 10 on any Reroll retroactively, letting you replace your roll value with 10 if you don't like it.

Good idea.


5. Spend a Luck Reroll, get an extra 5-ft Step.

Isn't a 5 foot step kind of chintzy for a re-roll?


6. Spend a Luck Reroll to duplicate a Knock effect, but only if you haven't previously checked to see if whatever it is you're opening has been locked.

Good one.


7. Spend a Reroll to 'reroll' a skill that can't be used Untrained that you have no ranks in; Beginner's Luck!

Good idea!


8. Whenever you succeed on a reroll, you get a +2 Circumstance bonus on your next reroll within the next minute.

Good idea.


9. Pick a Luck feat; you can use it as an Immediate action to affect an ally's roll.

Interesting, but it'd probably need to extend to their entire next round, since some Luck feats are part of an action.


10. Whenever you succeed on a reroll, the next opposed check made against you takes a -2 Circumstance penalty.

Bad Luck feats. :smalltongue:


I can keep going. :smallwink:

I'm sure you could; but the question becomes "why have so many, if no one character will be able to use most of them?"

Hm...maybe add in a Mythos style ritual to purchase new Luck feats?

Amechra
2014-09-11, 08:09 AM
I keep forgetting that penalties aren't stronger than penalties in D&D. I blame it on *World.

Just make a [Ceremony] feat that can get you more Luck feats. It'll be fine.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-11, 10:33 AM
I keep forgetting that penalties aren't stronger than penalties in D&D. I blame it on *World.

?


Just make a [Ceremony] feat that can get you more Luck feats. It'll be fine.

I'm not familiar with that tag. :smallredface:

Amechra
2014-09-11, 03:15 PM
Apocalypse World and its derivatives are a family of RPGs that use a 2d6 roll with set target numbers. Penalties are generally more powerful than bonuses, due to a couple of different factors.

And I'm not surprised you aren't familiar with [Ceremony] feats; there are about 5 of them in the entire game (only Feat type with less are [Faith] feats, of which 4 exist. And I wrote one of them.)

Basically, the feat gives you access to a group of rituals that can give you some kind of benefit; which Rituals you have access to depend on your ranks in a particular Knowledge Skill.

For example, the feat Heart of Dragons allows you to grant your allies a "phantom" Draconic feat if you have 3 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), and an actual Draconic feat if you have 8.

A homebrew example can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?155474-Aberration-Blood-Expanded-WIP), under the Cultist-Style Aberrant Feats heading.

Tanuki Tales
2014-09-11, 08:14 PM
Added a class feature to this end.