[3.X] Need Help Picking A Class

[Thetad]

So, when the campaign I'm currently running ends, I will finally be able to step down and enjoy the game from the other side of the spectrum (funnily enough, the new DM is going to be the guy from my last thread complaining about floating disk, so that should be interesting). Everybody seems to know what they're going to be, but I'm not quite sure for myself.

The main problem is I have about 8+ years experience playing 3rd edition on my friends. I introduced them to D&D, and they all have anywhere from two years to two months experience themselves. This has led me to believe that if I do something flashy, I'll overpower my friends and make the game boring for everyone involved.

As for the campaign, it seems sort of like a generic "Human empire wants Orc empire dead" type deal, and our characters have been conscripted into the Human empire's army. We will start at 5th level and from what I gather, this campaign will be very combat heavy. The list of characters are as follows:

1) Kobold Telepath, our "face", ironically enough.

2) Half-Elf Ranger going the archery route, possibly going into Arcane Archer.

3) Human generalist Wizard, probably going to be a blasty type.

4) Halfling Wizard specializing in necromancy, can't get a good read on what he'll be like.

5) Human Monk, not sure about him either.

As you can see, our group is fairly low-op. Even so, we have most of our bases covered except for divine casting. We also lack a trapfinder, but I don't think that will be a problem considering I'm being led to believe this campaign will consist of mostly outdoor combat.

The easy route would be to go Cleric, but I feel like I would be forced into a healbot role and be bored for the entire campaign. I was thinking about going Divine Bard, but I feel that would also be boring. I was also thinking of going against the grain and picking Crusader, but I've never played a ToB class and thus wouldn't know where to start.

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to be a support class that can still hold his own and be interesting without overshadowing everybody else, if that makes sense.

So what do you think? Should I bite the bullet and be a Cleric, or should I do something else?

Also, if it's important, the DM said that pretty much anything goes as long as it's 3rd edition.

[Red Fel]

The easy route would be to go Cleric, but I feel like I would be forced into a healbot role and be bored for the entire campaign. I was thinking about going Divine Bard, but I feel that would also be boring. I was also thinking of going against the grain and picking Crusader, but I've never played a ToB class and thus wouldn't know where to start.

I guess what I'm saying is that I want to be a support class that can still hold his own and be interesting without overshadowing everybody else, if that makes sense.

So what do you think? Should I bite the bullet and be a Cleric, or should I do something else?

Two major options come to mind. Be a Cleric. You heard me. It's a bloody great class. You can do whatever you want with it. But let me be clear - do what you want. Nobody tells the Wizards, "Prepare Greater Teleport or you're out of the party." Nobody says to the Monk, "You've had your fun, now pick a real class." And nobody gets to tell you to be a glorified box of band-aids. Clerics are so much more than that. Show them. Bard. Support class that can hold its own and be interesting? Bard. Yeah, you've got two arcane casters. So what? A well-optimized Bard can be an outrageous force multiplier, making spells spellier, melee melee-er, and Monks... Less regrettable. A Bard can do a ton for the party.
If you would rather be something more melee, I'd suggest a Crusader. White Raven and Devoted Spirit maneuvers can make you a powerful asset to the party. Dip Bard and grab Song of the White Raven to continue progressing your Inspire Courage. Then heal the party while smashing face with your weapons designed for causing harm.

[Erik Vale]

For other healing/support class, there is the Favoured Soul [Think a sorcerer version of a cleric, with crappy class features], standard bard [Consider a Elven Bard with Bardic Knack and Elven Dillante to have all the skills so you pick up everywhere, Treelord and you can also get Dragonfire Inspiration for Acid.], Archivest [Divine Wizard], Druid [Though I presume you don't want that], or any arcane class with the right feat who's name I can't think of.

Or Truenamer, and then you can use your optimisation to keep up :smalltongue:

[Kennisiou]

If you're worried about ToB, don't be. It's super simple to learn. There's nothing to it except what's in the book and basic melee stuff you're already familiar with like power attack. It's really, really simple to play and build. Aaaaand that's actually part of the problem. If the group is low op, a Crusader will stick out like a sore thumb. For players that still think spending all your turns casting cure light wounds is a good strategy, having a Crusader going around spending his turns attacking and then ALSO healing allies or applying buffs is going to seem far too strong. If the group doesn't have solid system mastery, high skill floor classes like Crusader that turn out strong even with the minimal effort will look too good compared to core where every class has a really low skill floor and can turn out to be incredibly weak if you build them wrong.

So a class like Druid or Cleric or Spirit Shaman is honestly not a bad option. Now hear me out! All of these classes have a reputation for being strong, even game-breakingly strong, and they are! But they're also low skill floor. Which means you can build them to be a lot less powerful than the crusader by purposefully taking subpar options! One of my favorite games I ever played I was a druid with a bunch of players that, like yours, made a lot of suboptimal choices in classes. We had a fighter with weapon focus and weapon specialization in both greataxes and greatswords. Our Rogue didn't take a single alternate class feature and actually only had 10 int ("I have the most skill points in the game! Why would I need more?"). We had a monk. Our most effective team member was actually a sorcerer who only took damaging spells (aside from later when I suggested he may want to take fly to help himself and other party members get around -- I don't think we ever used it in combat, but it was great for dealing with terrain and scouting). So I joined this group as a Druid, one of the strongest classes in the game, and I... played pure support. I spent turns in combat buffing the monk and fighter. I took the Jack of All Trades feat and followed the rogue around in unassuming animal forms like cats helping with their skill checks using the aid another action and occasional buff spells. I played a Druid where my goal was to always contribute but to never overshadow, and because Druid is such a flexible class full of options, of course, it did it fine.

That's my advice to you if you want to not overshadow your allies. If you don't care about that then go crusader all the way. Or Druid/Clericzilla builds to outfight the fighter while still casting spells.

[Jermz]

Divine casting would be a good idea, as you stated. Druid can be played perfectly well as a lower-powered class, as some here have pointed out. Bard is also good for fleshing out the party, and is great in support.

That being said, I'd go in a different direction - Factotum. I've never played one myself, but I've been high on this class for a while. It looks like you'd be able to help out in various situations, heal in a pinch and hold your own in combat for a few rounds if necessary. Not to mention skills up the wazoo to cover the trapfinding/skillmonkey niche.

[Troacctid]

Crusader should do well in your party. You have squishies that need a tank, and starting at 5th means you can use White Raven Tactics right out of the gate.

[Gwendol]

The party appears to be lacking in close combat. A druid or cleric would likely do very well, as would a crusader.
A druid comes with a host of battlefield control spells, which may complement whatever the wizards are doing, or you will have an overlap. Something to watch out for I guess. A cleric is a safer bet as you can tune it to be exactly what you want. In this case perhaps more of a melee combatant?
Maybe a cleric/ordained champion could work?

[SciChronic]

Crusader has a really high optimization floor compared to most classes, so if you play that, you'll have to be wary of outshining your party unintentionally, especially that monk. He'll look like dead weight pretty quickly.

If you want to optimize (like i always do) pick something that fills tertiary rolls in the party. Buff allies and handle all of the non-combat stuff.

Another option could be to go A-game paladin (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376) which has inspire courage which will help out your monk immensely and make him feel useful. It also gives you access to limited healing through divine spirit: healing, and lay on hands.

[Xerlith]

I'm tempted to say that Crusader will actually help the monk. If properly build, White Raven Bardsader focused on lockdown means that the bathrobe-clad teammate not only gets a damage bonus (DFI, inspire courage in general), but also can full-attack without moving around too much. White Raven Tactics, Leading The Attack, those two mean the monk can move + flurry and can actually hit with the flurry.
Devoted spirit maneuvers mean he's more probable to survive. Basically, going full-support Crusader you not only deal considerable damage and control the battlefield, you also make your other mundane teammates shine.

And you may want to show the Monk the Swordsage class.

[Sian]

would actually suggest dusting off Oriental Adventures and take a look at Shaman, prehaps with the minor update it got in Dragon#318 (which basicly boils down to pseudo-monk damage and an ever so slightly different bonus feat list). If possible try to convince whomever is going to be DM, that you can pick Serenity from Dragon Compendium to replace your Cha abilities with Wis, as you gain Turn Undead and Divine Grace (in all but name, Spirits' Favor)

[Troacctid]

I'm tempted to say that Crusader will actually help the monk. If properly build, White Raven Bardsader focused on lockdown means that the bathrobe-clad teammate not only gets a damage bonus (DFI, inspire courage in general), but also can full-attack without moving around too much. White Raven Tactics, Leading The Attack, those two mean the monk can move + flurry and can actually hit with the flurry.
Devoted spirit maneuvers mean he's more probable to survive. Basically, going full-support Crusader you not only deal considerable damage and control the battlefield, you also make your other mundane teammates shine.

That's what I was thinking. Also, if you and the Monk are both meleeing the same guy, Iron Guard's Glare pulls the aggro away from him.

[Gwendol]

The same can be said about the buffing cleric or druid: but the bardsader will do it in a more elegant way.

[Stella]

The Bard has the advantage of having no "competition" for morale modifiers in the party, but I'm going to suggest something completely different:

Summoner specialist Wizard. Sure, you've already got two Wizards, but one is "blasty" and the other is necromantic, and that's more debuffing and direct damage. As a Summoner you fill all the gaps in this group: Plenty of support spells (the Monk will love you for Enlarge Person and the stat buff spells, since otherwise he'll be relatively ineffective), summoned creatures for tanking, and the huge absence of any battlefield control.

Druid can also fill these gaps, as well as providing another action and some tanking/flanking via your animal companion, much better personal combat capability, and of course the healing spells that you don't want to be stuck casting. So I'd avoid it just to take that pigeon hole role completely off the table.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If all that's preventing you from playing a divine caster is worry about being forced to healbot just spend some of your starting wealth on a wand of CLW or Lesser Vigor and get your party to pool some money to buy a Rod of Bodily Restoration and an Orb of Mental Renewal (both MIC, 3100gp). Healbot role covered.
The other, more situational healing spells you'll want to get on scrolls anyway. No one prepares those. Set aside some of the loot before splitting it for a few scrolls of Neutralize Poison, Cure Disease, Lesser Restoration and similar stuff and you'll be set.

[Zaq]

Why do you find the Bard to be boring? Bards are awesome. You've got a pretty big group, so optimizing Inspire Courage will go a long way. A Bard can eventually get on the front lines, too (especially, though not only, with Snowflake Wardance, Song of the White Raven, or both), which you're kind of lacking right now. Plus, skills are fun, and Bard spells are more powerful than a lot of people give them credit for (hell, just in the PHB, you've got Grease, Glitterdust, and Glibness, and if you can't have fun with those three, you need to try harder).

An Incarnate might be an option, too. Incarnates are fantastic skillmonkeys with a lot of versatility. They can build themselves to be decent in melee, though I admit that it's not really easy for them. But melee or no melee, they're a lot of fun to play, and they can be sturdy as hell.