Creature types and negative hitpoints

[snailgosh]

One of my players plans to pick up the Death Knell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathKnell.htm) spell and I'm unsure about what creatures can fulfill the condition of "living creatures with -1 or fewer hit points".

I figure living creature means every creature that has a CON score, unless specifically stated otherwise.

But does every living creature have a down state, as in bleeding to death? Do Oozes or Elementals collapse unconcious before dying? Or is this limited to more "mammal-like" creatures?

[KillianHawkeye]

This is a function of their creature type and the answer can be found in the Monster Manual glossary section where creature types and subtypes are explained.


Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.

Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.

Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or lower causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage.

I'm quite certain it's no coincidence that the only creature types that don't have a dying state below 0 hit points are the ones that lack a Constitution score and therefore are not living creatures. The fact that swarms also follow this rule has more to do with the special rules needed to simulate using the stats of a single creature to represent many creatures working in tandem and how certain things (like bleeding to death) don't really make sense in that context.



tldr; Yes, all living creatures are subject to the rules for bleeding to death, even oozes.

[torrasque666]

I knew I had remembered seeing somewhere that any creature with 1 or more points in Constitution was classified as "Living". Turns out it was from dandwiki, but it makes sense as an extrapolation.

Any living creature has at least 1 point of Constitution. A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fortitude_Save) unless the effect works on objects or is harmless. The creature is also immune to ability damage (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Score_Loss#Ability_Damage), ability drain (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ability_Score_Loss#Ability_Drain), and energy drain (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Energy_Drain,_Negative_Levels,_and_Level_Loss# Energy_Drain_.28Su.29), and automatically fails Constitution checks (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Constitution_Check). A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run). Considering that Warforged(which are constructs) have a Constitution score and are specifically called out as surviving below 0 HP, as well as the fact that the only creatures not classified as living are the ones without a score, the above quote makes at the very least sense, even if all it is is an extrapolation.

[Sir Garanok]

I wouldn't over encourage him if he plans on using persistency.

Deaath Knell,(greater) Consumptive Field can make situations get out of hand.

[snailgosh]

I wouldn't over encourage him if he plans on using persistency.

Deaath Knell,(greater) Consumptive Field can make situations get out of hand.

while true, I'm fairly certain I don't have to worry about that. He's playing a favored soul, so no DMM.

[KillianHawkeye]

I knew I had remembered seeing somewhere that any creature with 1 or more points in Constitution was classified as "Living". Turns out it was from dandwiki, but it makes sense as an extrapolation.

That's also from the actual rules found in the Monster Manual glossary.