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Ettina
2014-09-01, 02:29 PM
If the target of a spell requiring a Will save is asleep, what effect does that have on their Will save? Is it weaker? Also, would making their Will save wake them up?
Hamste
2014-09-01, 02:39 PM
If you are unconscious you count as willing and gets no save. I'm not sure if sleeping has the same ruling though.
Urpriest
2014-09-01, 02:48 PM
If you are unconscious you count as willing and gets no save. I'm not sure if sleeping has the same ruling though.

Note that this only applies to spells that specifically offer you no save if you're willing, not just spells that you could forego your save for if you were willing.

And if you are sleeping, you are unconscious.
Ettina
2014-09-02, 11:34 AM
So, if I used Mind Fog (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mind_Fog) on a sleeping party of enemies, would they have a Will save against the effects of the fog? Or could I use that to drop a creature's Will save -10 for free?
Trasilor
2014-09-02, 01:14 PM
Note that this only applies to spells that specifically offer you no save if you're willing, not just spells that you could forego your save for if you were willing.

And if you are sleeping, you are unconscious.

Except unconscious doesn't equal sleeping, in both game terms and real life. By definition, unconscious people do not react to stimuli, that is why you cannot wake someone who is unconscious. Sleeping people react to stimuli, hence why you can wake them.

Unconscious characters are automatically considered willing, however, helpless creatures (such as sleeping creatures) are not considered willing.
Psyren
2014-09-02, 01:31 PM
This is one of those gray areas of the rules. For sanity's sake, most people assume there is a difference between "willing" (susceptible to spells that require willing targets) and "willing" (foregoing your will save.) Otherwise, spells like Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm) would not have a saving throw, and it would mean anyone you can knock unconscious once can become your puppet for days, if not indefinitely. You could charm a sleeping dragon, or geas the king, or dominate the BBEG.