How to kill friends and optimize enemies - and the problems in doing so

[Oudyn]

So I've been thinking of running a Pathfinder campaign where all named NPCs are at least 80% optimized and all notable ones run with PC stat and item arrays. Now before I get brutally murdered by polygonal objects with unusually high numbers of sides being chucked at alarming speeds towards my general direction, I would like help solving some problems.

Problem 1: How to make more important characters (ie BBEG) stand out.

Problem 2: How to organize the statblocks for so many optimized NPCs.

Problem 3: How to differentiate NPCs of the same class.

Problem 4: How to avoid constant TPKs.

Problem 5: How to make sure the optimized NPCs still pose a threat to optimized PCs.

Problem 6: How to make sure NPCs with nonstandard themes remain competitive towards more standard NPCs.

Lots of thanks,

Oudyn

[Kudaku]

Could you maybe say a little bit about why you want to do this? :smallconfused:

[Oudyn]

Could you maybe say a little bit about why you want to do this? :smallconfused:

My group has a tendency to optimize around specific concepts. To a surprising level. So, in keeping with this, we have decided that the campaign setting we're creating to play our games in will be populated by NPCs not unlike, and not unable to challenge, the characters they like to make and play. Being the GM of the group, this daunting task falls to me.

Hope I've helped clarify,

Oudyn

[1pwny]

I would say, if you want to optimize but differentiate between the same class by using different concepts. For example, you could make a tripper, a thrower, and an ubercharger from the same class. Or wait! I just had the best idea ever!

Make a bunch of Summoners, and then make all their eidolons completely different!

Or have them all use Firecats! A guild of level 12 people using Firecats!
Level 12 Eidolon
Max Evolution Pool: 21 (16 natural + 3 racial + 2 [Extra Evolution])
Evolution Points Left: 0

Total Stats (Quadruped):

40 speed
Bite 1d6 + 1d6 Fire
Claws 2d6 + 2d6 Fire
Low-Light Vision
Immunity to Fire Damage


Str: 14
Dex: 22
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 11

1pt. Evolutions:
Claws (x2)
Improved Damage (Claws)
Pounce
Scent
Tail

2pt. Evolutions:
Ability Enhancement - Dexterity x3
Energy Attacks - Fire
Immunity - Fire
Minor Magic - Burning Hands

3pt. Evolutions:
See in Darkness

[Urpriest]

There's a ton of monster-optimizing you can do as a DM in PF that you can't really do as a player (unless you abuse Pathfinder's laughable attempts at an LA system, but that's kind of like kicking a puppy). So I don't know if you really need to also make NPCs use PC stat and item arrays.

That said, optimizing NPCs is generally smart when PCs are also optimized. In order,

Problem 1: Remember, the BBEG can be at the upper end of the CR range, while most NPCs won't be. Aim for a BBEG of average NPC CR+4.

Problem 2: Programs/spreadsheets that automatically calculate some stats are quite worthwhile. I'd ask Tippy for advice, he's talked before about how he organizes his high-op games.

Problem 3: Generally there are at least a few different viable builds per class, especially with archetypes. You should have plenty of room.

Problem 4: Same way you do with under-optimized NPCs, tailor fights to your players' capabilities.

Problem 5: Same as above, it's a matter of laborious tweaking.

Problem 6: Lots of nonstandard themes are also fairly potent. Just pick themes that correspond to strong archetypes.