The 5e Low Training Center - Level 3!

[Vowtz]

.................................................. .........................

[Foodle]

Your druid could cast barkskin on himself prior to shifting to bear form also, setting his AC at 16.

[Shadow]

Your druid could cast barkskin on himself prior to shifting to bear form also, setting his AC at 16.

RULE 7. 8 hour buff precast is allowed.

RULE 8. Any other buff precast is disallowed.

Barkskin: Concentration up to 1 hour
Not allowed
edit: Not allowed as a precast, which implies it is allowed on the first round. But that complicates things, requiring a check every round he's hit, so I'm assuming that it's disallowed completely for that reason.

[Vowtz]

I forgot to choose a fighting style for the fighter, let's add 2 to all damage he is dealing.

He starts dealing damage at round 5 until 21, with an action surge... He should deal 36 more damage per FIGHT,

72 more considering 2 fights, his FINAL SCORE IS...

42 rounds / Dealt 360/ Taken 192

Pretty decent, considering that AC in this exercise has less impact than actual play.

[Naanomi]

Question: How does the Bot react to allies (Familiars, Animal Companions, Summoned things)?

[Vowtz]

Question: How does the Bot react to allies (Familiars, Animal Companions, Summoned things)?

Good question... He attacks whoever he can reach first, if he can reach both, attacks who attacked him last, avoiding AoOs.

I'll add that to his rules later

[Vowtz]

I just realised that this ring is too narrow, it is impossible to try a "keep away" game in it, I will change it's dimmensions to 12x12.

If anyone feels like protesting, I'll listen.

[Shadow]

I just realised that this ring is too narrow, it is impossible to try a "keep away" game in it, I will change it's dimmensions to 12x12.

If anyone feels like protesting, I'll listen.

I don't see what difference that would make unless you put a limited and small range on the balls of pure death.
D3. On his turn, moves 6 squares closer and melee attacks for 8 piercing/slashing/bludgeoning damage.
D4. If out of 5 feet range, he will shoot balls of pure death for 8 piercing/slashing/bludgeoning damage.
Damage doesn't change at range, nor does there seem to be a range on its attacks. The entire melee/range separation is irrelevant, because it does the same damage no matter where you are.
Playing "keep away" is useless.
If it weren't, short bow ranged rogues using cunning action for dash to stay at range win. Period.

[Vowtz]

I don't see what difference that would make unless you put a limited and small range on the balls of pure death.
D3. On his turn, moves 6 squares closer and melee attacks for 8 piercing/slashing/bludgeoning damage.
D4. If out of 5 feet range, he will shoot balls of pure death for 8 piercing/slashing/bludgeoning damage.
Damage doesn't change at range, nor does there seem to be a range on its attacks. The entire melee/range separation is irrelevant, because it does the same damage no matter where you are.
Playing "keep away" is useless.
If it weren't, short bow ranged rogues using cunning action for dash to stay at range win. Period.
There is one specific character that this change transfer him from useless to invincible, but I will search for others.

Do you think ranged damage should be less than melee? (it makes sense)

[Shadow]

I don't really care, to be honest. I'm not building somehting to test. I was just pointing out that melee and ranged were identical from the rules as listed.

[Giant2005]

Barbarian Rages take a long rest to recover btw so your Barb test should be quite different in that second round when Rages are no longer available.

Here's a new one:

;;;;;;; Multiclass Cheeser ;;;;;;
@@@ FINAL SCORE: 49 rounds / Dealt 650/ Taken 73 @@@

Human Fighter 1 (Dueliing), Barbarian 1, Warlock 1 - feat Heavy armor master
(Shield, battleaxe and heavy armor)

Abilities 16. 15. 16. 8. 8. 8.

AC/HP = 20/31 (damage halved when raging + absorbs 3 physical damage)
Average Damage on hit = 10/round (12 raging; 7 with poison spray) +4 per attack with Hex



History:

Round 1-4 deals 7 damage via Poison Spray. takes 0 Casts Hex as a Bonus action at some point during these rounds.
Round 5-9 deals 14 damage, takes 0

Totals: (88 dealt/0 taken)

Round 10-19 deals 16 damage, takes 1 due to rage and heavy armor master (8/2 = 4 - 3 = 1)

Totals: (248/9) lost 9 HP, total now 22

Round 20-29 deals 16, takes 1 due to second rage and heavy armor master (8/2 = 4 - 3 = 1), heals with second Wind for 7

Totals: (408/18) lost 9 more HP but gains 7, he now has 20

Round 30-33 deals 14, takes 5 until dead.

Totals from fight 1 = 33 rounds for 464/38


Short rest to recover 27 hp


Round 1-4 deals 7 damage via Poison Spray. takes 0 Casts Hex as a Bonus action at some point during these rounds.
Round 5-9 deals 14 damage, takes 0

Totals: (88 dealt/0 taken)

Round 10-11 deals 14 damage, takes 5, heals with second wind for 7

Totals: (116/10) lost 10 but gained 7, he now has 24

Round 12-16 deals 14 damage, takes 5 until dead.


FIGHT 1 = 33/464/38
FIGHT 2 = 16/186/35


FINAL SCORE: 49 rounds / Dealt 650/ Taken 73

[Vowtz]

Barbarian Rages take a long rest to recover btw so your Barb test should be quite different in that second round when Rages are no longer available.

Here's a new one:

;;;;;;; Multiclass Cheeser ;;;;;;
@@@ FINAL SCORE: 49 rounds / Dealt 650/ Taken 73 @@@

Human Fighter 1 (Dueliing), Barbarian 1, Warlock 1 - feat Heavy armor master
(Shield, battleaxe and heavy armor)

Abilities 16. 15. 16. 8. 8. 8.

AC/HP = 20/31 (damage halved when raging + absorbs 3 physical damage)
Average Damage on hit = 10/round (12 raging; 7 with poison spray) +4 per attack with Hex



History:

Round 1-4 deals 7 damage via Poison Spray. takes 0 Casts Hex as a Bonus action at some point during these rounds.
Round 5-9 deals 14 damage, takes 0

Totals: (88 dealt/0 taken)

Round 10-19 deals 16 damage, takes 1 due to rage and heavy armor master (8/2 = 4 - 3 = 1)

Totals: (248/9) lost 9 HP, total now 22

Round 20-29 deals 16, takes 1 due to second rage and heavy armor master (8/2 = 4 - 3 = 1), heals with second Wind for 7

Totals: (408/18) lost 9 more HP but gains 7, he now has 20

Round 30-33 deals 14, takes 5 until dead.

Totals from fight 1 = 33 rounds for 464/38


Short rest to recover 27 hp


Round 1-4 deals 7 damage via Poison Spray. takes 0 Casts Hex as a Bonus action at some point during these rounds.
Round 5-9 deals 14 damage, takes 0

Totals: (88 dealt/0 taken)

Round 10-11 deals 14 damage, takes 5, heals with second wind for 7

Totals: (116/10) lost 10 but gained 7, he now has 24

Round 12-16 deals 14 damage, takes 5 until dead.


FIGHT 1 = 33/464/38
FIGHT 2 = 16/186/35


FINAL SCORE: 49 rounds / Dealt 650/ Taken 73it's really good, I was going for rage+heavy armor too, and the poison exploit is really interesting!

You can't multiclass to warlock with CHA 8 thou, but just change DEX to CHA and it is solved.



My barb died before he could rage a second time, so he could use it again after short rest. He is as far as you can get from optimized ;P

[Giant2005]

it's really good, I was going for rage+heavy armor too, and the poison exploit is really interesting!

You can't multiclass to warlock with CHA 8 thou, but just change DEX to CHA and it is solved.



My barb died before he could rage a second time, so he could use it again after short rest. He is as far as you can get from optimized ;P

Ugh forgot about the Multiclassing rules. That'd change everything due to him having one less AC.

[Vowtz]

Ugh forgot about the Multiclassing rules. That'd change everything due to him having one less AC.

Heavy armor don't penalyze DEX negative bonus on AC in 5e.

[Giant2005]

Heavy armor don't penalyze DEX negative bonus on AC in 5e.

Good to know! then it changes nothing.

Also worth noting, a Wild Mage could kill that thing pretty easily if it was extremely lucky on Wild Surges.

[Naanomi]

Do we get Reactions (if we have Polearm Master or Sentinel for example?) Does the Bot (if we run away or something)?

[Vowtz]

Do we get Reactions (if we have Polearm Master or Sentinel for example?) Does the Bot (if we run away or something)?

Yes, you get your reactions and he get to AoO too!

I just figured out a second invincible character regarding this enemy. (I actually played him yesterday in a campaign)

Edit: realised this second one does not work after all, he get his ass kicked

[Prophes0r]

Hrm. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get a druid into bear shaped heavy armor that is not metal...

[Giant2005]

Here is The Cheater and he is well named:

;;;;;;; The Cheater ;;;;;;
@@@ FINAL SCORE: 2429 rounds / Dealt 12,296 / Taken 12,055 @@@

Human Fighter 1 (Dueling), Warlock 2 (Fiendish Vigor) - feat Heavy armor master
(Shield, Battleaxe and heavy armor)

Abilities 16. 8. 16. 8. 8. 15.

AC/HP = 20/29 (absorbs 3 physical damage)
Average Damage on hit = 10/round (7 with poison spray; 5 with Armor of Agathys)



History:

Round 1-4 deals 7 damage via Poison Spray. takes 0
Round 5-7 deals 10 damage, takes 0
Round 8 casts Armor of Agathys, gains 5 temp HP
Round 9 uses Fiendish Vigor, gains 7 temp HP

Totals: (58 dealt/0 taken, 12 temp HP gained)

Round 10-607 deals 5 damage, takes 5, gains 5 temp HP (renews Fiendish Vigor every round and lets Armor of Agathys do the damage)

Totals: (3048/2990) lost 2990 temp HP, gained 2990 temp hp

Round 608 deals 5 damage, takes 5 (uses ready action to cast Armor of Agathys after enemy attacks

Totals: (3053/2995) lost 5 more temp HP, gained 5 more temp HP

Round 609-1205 deals 5 damage, takes 5, gains 5 temp HP (renews Fiendish Vigor every round and lets Armor of Agathys do the damage)

Totals: (6038/5980) lost 2985 more temp HP, gained 2985 more temp HP

Round 1206: deals 15 damage, takes 5 temp HP

Totals: (6053/5985) lost 5 more temp HP, 7 temp HP remaining

Round 1207: deals 15 damage, takes 5 temp HP

Totals: (6068/5990) lost 5 more temp HP, 2 temp HP remaining

Round 1208: deals 15 damage, takes 5 temp HP

Totals: (6083/5995) lost remaining temp HP and 3 HP, 26 remaining

Round 1209-1210: deals 10 damage, takes 5, uses Second Wind to gain 7

Totals: (6103/6005) lost 10 HP and gained 7, 23 remaining

Round 1211-1215 deals 10 damage, takes 5 until dead.

Totals from fight 1 = 1215 rounds for 6153/6030


Short rest to recover 25 hp


Round 1-4 deals 7 damage via Poison Spray. takes 0
Round 5-7 deals 10 damage, takes 0
Round 8 casts Armor of Agathys, gains 5 temp HP
Round 9 uses Fiendish Vigor, gains 7 temp HP

Totals: (58 dealt/0 taken, 12 temp HP gained)

Round 10-607 deals 5 damage, takes 5, gains 5 temp HP (renews Fiendish Vigor every round and lets Armor of Agathys do the damage)

Totals: (3048/2990) lost 2990 temp HP, gained 2990 temp hp

Round 608 deals 5 damage, takes 5 (uses ready action to cast Armor of Agathys after enemy attacks

Totals: (3053/2995) lost 5 more temp HP, gained 5 more temp HP

Round 609-1205 deals 5 damage, takes 5, gains 5 temp HP (renews Fiendish Vigor every round and lets Armor of Agathys do the damage)

Totals: (6038/5980) lost 2985 more temp HP, gained 2985 more temp HP

Round 1206: deals 15 damage, takes 5 temp HP

Totals: (6053/5985) lost 5 more temp HP, 7 temp HP remaining

Round 1207: deals 15 damage, takes 5 temp HP

Totals: (6068/5990) lost 5 more temp HP, 2 temp HP remaining

Round 1208: deals 15 damage, takes 5 temp HP

Totals: (6083/5995) lost remaining temp HP and 3 HP, 22 remaining

Round 1209-1210: deals 10 damage, takes 5, uses Second Wind to gain 7

Totals: (6103/6005) lost 10 HP and gained 7, 19 remaining

Round 1211-1214 deals 10 damage, takes 5 until dead.


FIGHT 1 = 1215/6153/6030
FIGHT 2 = 1214/6143/6025


FINAL SCORE: 2429 rounds / Dealt 12,296 / Taken 12,055

[Naanomi]

There are only 40 rounds per fight, and that was basically the build I was doing :)
-------------------------------------
Human/Variant Cleric (War) 1/Warlock 2

STR 17, DEX 8, CON 8, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 16

Equipment: Rapier, Full Plate, Shield; AC 22
Feats: Heavy Armor Master
Warlock Spells: Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke
Warlock Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Fiendish Vigor

Fight 1:
Round 1: Cast False Life, gaining 7 Temporary HP. Bot moves forward, misses.
Round 2: Cast Armor of Agathys.
Round 3+4: Nothing Happens
Round 5: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 damage
Round 6-7: Cast Guiding Bolt for 14 damage.
Round 8-10: Attack with Flail for 8 Damage, War Priest Bonus Action: Attack with Flail for 8 Damage
Round 11: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor, 5 temporary); and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. Cast Hellish Rebuke as reaction, Bot takes 11. (Full HP, 2+5 Temporary remaining)
Round 12: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 Damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor, 5 Temporary); and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. (Full HP, 2 Temporary Remaining)
Round 13-39: Cast False Life, gaining 7 Temporary HP. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor; and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. (Full HP, 2+3 Temporary Remaining)
Round 40: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 Damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor, 3 Temporary); and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. (13 HP Remaining)
Damage Done:
Eldritch Blast X 4 = 36
Flail X 4 = 32
Guiding Bolt X2 = 28
Armor of Agathys X 29 = 145
Damage Taken: 8X30= 240
Damage Ratio: 241/240

Between fights: Heal to full

Fight 2:
Round 1: Cast False Life, gaining 7 Temporary HP. Bot moves forward, misses.
Round 2: Cast Armor of Agathys.
Round 3+4: Nothing Happens
Round 5-8: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 damage
Round 9: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor, 5 temporary); and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. Cast Hellish Rebuke as reaction, Bot takes 11. (Full HP, 2+5 Temporary remaining)
Round 10: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 Damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor, 5 Temporary); and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. (Full HP, 2 Temporary Remaining)
Round 11-36: Cast False Life, gaining 7 Temporary HP. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor; and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. (Full HP, 2+3 Temporary Remaining)
Round 37: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 Damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor, 3 Temporary); and takes 5 damage from Armor of Agathys. (13 HP Remaining)
Round 38-40: Cast Eldritch Blast for 9 Damage. Bot hits me, dealing 8 (3 reduced by armor). Fall.

Damage Done:
Eldritch Blast X 14 = 126
Armor of Agathys X 28 = 140
Damage Taken: 8X32= 256
Damage Ratio: 266/256

Combined Damage Ratio: 506/496; 80 Rounds fought (took a dive at last round)

[Giant2005]

There are only 40 rounds per fight, and that was basically the build I was doing :)
Crap... didn't notice the 40 round limit!

[Iolo Morganwg]

From what I read on p198 of the PHB, a PC can only have temporary HP from one source at a time.

[Darkmatter]

Preview post tells me that I got super ninja'ed on my basic concept. However, since this build didn't rely on an incorrect application of temp HP stacking, a questionable interpretation of how Armor of Agathys interacts with other sources of temp HP, or provoking opportunity attacks by firing off ranged attacks in melee, I figured I'd post it anyway.

Human (feat: Heavy armor master)
Str: 16, Con: 8, Dex 8, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 16

Cleric (Tempest) 1, Warlock 2

Cleric: Inflict wounds
Warlock: poison spray, hex, hellish rebuke, fiendish vigor invocation

Shield, Plate armor, longsword

AC 20/ HP 15 (Absorbs 3 damage)

Rounds 1-4, poison spray 7 HP (28 total) - Bot can't hit
Rounds 5-8, bonus action hex, longsword 8+4(hex) HP (48 total) - Bot can't hit
Round 9: inflict wounds 18+4(hex) (22 total) - Bot can't hit
Rounds 10-40: False life from fiendish vigor, gain 7 temp HP - Bot hits for 5 HP;
for 3 rounds, we can take a reaction to deal 10 lightning damage (Tempest cleric) (30 total)
for one round, we can take a reaction to deal 12 fire damage (Hellish rebuke)

Second round same as the first (but without the bonus lightning damage)

Final: 80 rounds / dealt 250 / taken 0 (310 temp HP, 186 negated)

Now it's just about optimizing damage dealt. I may be off by a bit due to rounding as I thought was indicated in the OP (I rounded each die so that e.g. 3d10 = 18)

Edit for typo's and egregious simple math errors.

[Naanomi]

Preview post tells me that I got super ninja'ed on my basic concept. However, since this build didn't rely on an incorrect application of temp HP stacking, a questionable interpretation of how Armor of Agathys interacts with other sources of temp HP, or provoking opportunity attacks by firing off ranged attacks in melee, I figured I'd post it anyway.
I admit that I did not see the Temp-HP stacking line, which soundly defeats my plan. However I will note that according to the rules above, the Temporary HP damage you take still 'counts against you' for Damage Taken, so you would have taken it for final scoring; which probably moderately affects the progression (since taking *some* real damage in exchange for dealing a bit more pays off).

The extra attack from War Domain can bump your damage numbers a bit, if you go that route instead of Tempest (3 extra attacks total at 12 each for 36 extra damage, compared to 30 from tempest). You can probably squeeze extra damage from Hex if you use Hellish Rebuke when it is still active (is that possible?)

Depending on how much rounds are weighted, though, I think a build along these lines will ultimately be the champion build. The minimum 5 damage/round no matter what puts any build on a too tight of a clock without a source of unlimited HP; though if it is just looking at damage dealt to damage taken... a glass-cannon 'purposefully weak HP to die quickly' Alpha-strike character might edge it out.

[Vowtz]

There are only 40 rounds per fight, and that was basically the build I was doing :)
-------------------------------------
Human/Variant Cleric (War) 1/Warlock 2

STR 17, DEX 8, CON 8, INT 8, WIS 15, CHA 16

Equipment: Rapier, Full Plate, Shield; AC 22
Feats: Heavy Armor Master
Warlock Spells: Armor of Agathys, Hellish Rebuke
Warlock Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Fiendish Vigor

I'm intrigued, how could you get AC 22 with nonmagical equipment without casting shield of faith?

War cleric seems to be really good for this!

[Vowtz]

Preview post tells me that I got super ninja'ed on my basic concept. However, since this build didn't rely on an incorrect application of temp HP stacking, a questionable interpretation of how Armor of Agathys interacts with other sources of temp HP, or provoking opportunity attacks by firing off ranged attacks in melee, I figured I'd post it anyway.

Human (feat: Heavy armor master)
Str: 16, Con: 8, Dex 8, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 16

Cleric (Tempest) 1, Warlock 2

Cleric: Inflict wounds
Warlock: poison spray, hex, hellish rebuke, fiendish vigor invocation

Shield, Plate armor, longsword

AC 20/ HP 15 (Absorbs 3 damage)

Rounds 1-4, poison spray 7 HP (28 total) - Bot can't hit
Rounds 5-9, bonus action hex, longsword 8+4(hex) HP (60 total) - Bot can't hit
Round 11: inflict wounds 18+4(hex) (22 total) - Bot can't hit
Rounds 12-40: False life from fiendish vigor, gain 7 temp HP - Bot hits for 5 HP;
for 3 rounds, we can take a reaction to deal 10 lightning damage (Tempest cleric) (30 total)
for one round, we can take a reaction to deal 12 fire damage (Hellish rebuke)

Second round same as the first (but without the bonus lightning damage)

Final: 80 rounds / dealt 294 / taken 0 (580 temp HP, 348 negated)

Now it's just about optimizing damage dealt. I may be off by a bit due to rounding as I thought was indicated in the OP (I rounded each die so that e.g. 3d10 = 18)
Bot start hitting AC 20 on round 10, since it's roll equals 10+ round of combat.


I liked what you did after DAMAGE TAKEN, with negated/temporary totals

[Darkmatter]

Bot start hitting AC 20 on round 10, since it's roll equals 10+ round of combat.

Yeah, rereading my post this morning, that was the least of my issues... I went back and fixed it and put in the more accurate numbers.


The extra attack from War Domain can bump your damage numbers a bit, if you go that route instead of Tempest

Good catch. That would give us +6 damage. I didn't look into it because I thought Hex applied only once / turn. That makes it a pretty good spell for a fighter to pick up via feat.

[Z3ro]

I don't get too heavy into math challenges like this, but I wanted to point out what may be my all-time favorite thing ever said on this forum.


transform as bonus to deal 20 bear damage

[Vowtz]

transform as bonus to deal 20 bear damage


I don't get too heavy into math challenges like this, but I wanted to point out what may be my all-time favorite thing ever said on this forum.


Hahahahaha, thanks man, I'm flattered.

[Vowtz]

It is really unlikely that you can do the same combat with a monk in an actual adventure, but it can be done for 1-2 rounds depending on the enemy and enviroment.

Thanks to the following test, I'll try monk wood elf with a bow in the future!


;;;;;;;; TEST 4: Cellphon, the Monk ;;;;;;;;;
@@@ FINAL SCORE: Rounds 80 / Dealt 910 / Taken 560 (all negated by deflect) @@@

Feat Human - Elemental monk 3
(Equipment: nothing)
Abilities 8. 16. 15. 8. 16. 8

AC/HP: 16/24
Feat: mobile
Elemental Art: Hadouken (3d10+push) - 2 ki
Martial arts: punch and kick for 12 damage/round
Flurry: punch + kick + elbow for 18 damage - 1 ki


History


Round 1 uses First of Unbroken Air (Hadouken) for 17 damage and goes to 10 feet of any wall
Round 2-4 nothing happens
Round 5 attacks with flurry for 18 damage, bot misses

Round 6-40 attacks with martial arts for 12 damage, moves away, no AoO because of his feat, bot aproaches, but can't reach, shooting a ball of pure death, monk use reaction to deflect missile, and is still with full hp. Repeat until round 40.

Since the bot is not strong enough to shoot more than once, and not smart enough to ready an action or stop at center ring, he can basically do nothing...

FIGHT ONE
Rounds: 40
Dealt: 17 + 18 + 12x35 = 455
Taken: 8x35 = 280


Short rest to recover ki, then FIGHT TWO is the same as fight one.


FINAL SCORE: Rounds 80 / Dealt 910 / Taken 560 (all negated by deflect)