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lt_murgen
2014-09-02, 09:45 AM
If the three of us are interested in creating a federation, I though a private thread would be the best place for it.

Some questions we have to answer:
Which attribute will each one of us focus on?
How can we seperate Fera from Niskovia without incident?
Could we convince Niskovia to disband its great kingdom (in name) and join the Federation?

I put this last one out there because it solves the second one.


Federation
A Federation is a group of countries who band together to form one country, with the constituent countries becoming ‘states’. Each of these states functions the same as a non-confederated country played by any other player and can have colonies of their own.

Forming a Federation
Forming a Federation requires at least three participating players/countries, all of whose regions must be politically stable (due to being primary regions or through Diplomacy 5 Special actions). Each must set up a Great Project to create the Federation together, and the Federation isn’t created until all three (or more) Great Projects are finished. If another player wants to join the Federation, it is a small project (2 rounds) for them and a small project for one of the members of the Federation, thus making it harder and take more time to join a Federation than it would to join an alliance.

If one of the participants in the creation of a Federation is unable to post their actions during a week, they may count their Great Project as having continued that round regardless, if they do post the round after that and continue it. Unlike normal Great Projects, the forming or joining of a Federation cannot be assisted by others.

Benefits of a Federation
Members of a Federation can make diplomatic agreements of alliance for the Federation as a whole, or trade agreements for any regions that are part of the Federation. However, if the state controlling a region part of such an agreement does not agree with an agreement another Federation member makes, they may veto the agreement.

The heads of the states within a Federation each specialize in a particular political style (kind of like they are ministers in a parliament or senators from different political parties). All members must choose one attribute (Diplomacy, Military, Curiosity or Faith) to specialize in. They gain one extra action per round, but must spend two of their actions during any round on that attribute. They must also choose one attribute that they neglect, and they may never spend actions on things related to that attribute. Of course, they can be clever and spend it on similar actions that just happen to be related to another attribute as well, but keep in mind that some actions are very clear on what attribute they belong to. Anything requiring an attribute roll is clearly related to that attribute, for example, and exploration is always Curiosity.

If a player who is in a Federation cannot post during a round, other members of the Federation may take their specialized actions. For example, if the player specializes in Diplomacy, the other members may take two Diplomacy actions on their behalf. Two members of a Federation may specialize in the same attribute, but no more than that.

If a member of a Federation posts less than five actions during a round, it’s okay if none of them are of their specialized attribute, just as long as none of the actions are of their forbidden attribute.

Downsides of a Federation
No member states of a Federation may be a Great Kingdom or form one. If an aspiring member state has a Great Kingdom, they must dissolve it before starting their project to create or join a Federation. Aspiring members of a Federation may not be Wards of a country that isn’t part of that Federation, but they may be Wards of a Federation member state. When the country joins the Federation, they are free from their Liege and no longer are a Ward, as they are now on equal level as them within the Federation.


[i]Preamble:
The signatories of this treaty agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between these three independent realms. The name of this Confederation shall be, henceforth, called the “Federated Suns”
Articles of Confederation
1) Each realm shall retain its sovereignty, freedom, independence and every power, jurisdiction and right with is not expressly delegated in these articles.
2) These realms hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever.
3) To better secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and discourse among the people of the different realms of this Confederations, we establish equal treatment and freedom of movement for the free inhabitants of each realm to pass unhindered between the realms, excluding "paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice." All these people are entitled to equal rights established by the realm into which he travels. If a crime is committed in one realm and the perpetrator flees to another realm, he will be extradited to and tried in the realm in which the crime was committed.
4) A Congress of the Confederation will be created and 3 votes will be allocated to each realm. Each realm is entitled to a delegation of between three and thirteen members. Members of this congress are appointed by the legal authority of each realm, and term length and limits shall be established through the same authority.
5) The Congress shall have the sole and exclusive right and power while assembled to determine peace and war; to exchange ambassadors; to enter into treaties and alliances, with some provisos; to establish rules for deciding all cases of captures or prizes on land or water; to grant letters of marque and reprisal (documents authorizing privateers) in times of peace; to appoint courts for the trial of pirates and crimes committed on the high seas; to establish courts for appeals in all cases of captures. The Congress shall serve as the final court for disputes between realms.
6) No realm or official of Congress may accept foreign gifts or titles, and granting any title of nobility is forbidden to the Congress. No realm may tax or interfere with treaty stipulations already in place. No realm may engage in war, without permission of Congress, unless invaded or that is imminent on the frontier;
7) No realm may maintain a peace-time standing army or navy, unless infested by pirates, but every Realm is required to keep ready, a well-regulated (meaning well trained), disciplined, and equipped militia, with sufficient public stores of a due number of field pieces, tents, a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No realm may stage troops in another realm without consent of the Congress.
8) Whenever military is raised for common defense, Colonels, ship Captains and military ranks below these will be named by the individual realm which provides the army unit. Individuals will be appointed ranks above Colonels or ship Captains solely by the Congress.
9) Congress shall be appointed to stage military in an individual realm for common defense. Congress shall provide for expense and provision of these military units.
10) Expenditures by the Federated Suns will be paid by funds raised by each individual realm, and apportioned to the states based on the real property values of each. To facilitate fair taxation, Congress shall be authorized to establish a common standard for currency content and value. Individual realms shall retain the right to mint their own coinage through their legal authority.
11) These articles are perpetual, and can only be altered by approval of Congress with ratification by all the legal authority of the realms. [i]

A couple of notes. Federated Suns is just a name I used since I call the inner sea the Sea of the Golden Sun. I think we should agree on a name.

Now, a Federation requires each of us to take 1 trait as our ‘primary’ and select one to not use. Easily enough done- each of us creates a character who is the “Elder congressman for” Commerce (diplomacy), technology (Curiosity), Defense (military), etc.

As far as military, I was thinking a 2% rule- must maintain 2% of our population in military. The rest, well, we can stage troops where we need, provided we say the realm is paying for it.

The way I wrote it does prevent us from militarily taking other regions. But there is no rule that says they cannot be taken diplomatically. In fact, since there is no discussion of expansion at all, rule #1 says you can expand all you want. And, of course, the pirate exception would allow for taking areas which are ‘havens’ of pirates and need to be tamed....

Rain Dragon
2014-09-03, 12:18 AM
Thank you.

Question the First
I would like to focus on Curiosity, as it makes the most sense for my nation. It also makes the most sense for me to ditch Faith, so hopefully I manage to Faith 5 my planned main religion before the Federation. It depends on my next ruler's rolls, though.

Question the Second
I'll talk over what makes the most sense for the Sovereign Principality of Niskovia with Kitsanth so this becomes entirely a non-issue. I did talk to Kits first about it, but I forget the specific details. The action for being released from vassalage will be next round, giving plenty of time for discussion.

Question the Third
Not in a million years.
She does not like the federation rules.

Other notes
Of course, Fera will open borders and trade to you guys. :smallbiggrin: There is nothing that stands out about the contract thus far. Except perhaps the name (which I realise is more a placeholder), as most of Fera's citizens are nocturnal. They've taken to calling the sea which I'm expanding around the 'Stralias Sea' until someone finds a cooler name. (Because the fourth wall was made to be broken).

For the name, there are some things that the three countries have in common. Being coastal and interested in the wellbeing of sentients are the first ones that come to mind, though I can't claim to be the most familiar with everyone's stories.

I'm also fine with being restricted to expanding diplomatically, as it does fit with my peoples' stuff quite nicely.

SECOND EDIT - According to this clause:
7) No realm may maintain a peace-time standing army or navy, unless infested by pirates, but every Realm is required to keep ready, a well-regulated (meaning well trained), disciplined, and equipped militia, with sufficient public stores of a due number of field pieces, tents, a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No realm may stage troops in another realm without consent of the Congress.

The wording is rather absolute. I'd suggest changing it slightly to allow for privately funded armies (as you suggested) if we were interested or potentially need the exception. That said, a diplomacy action would change it after the formation of the federation if the world is to suddenly become significantly more militant and I'm not sure it's necessary.

With the suggested 2% across the realm, the militias are looking like this.



AQUA
243 000
4 units (4,86)


Celero
282 000*
5 units (5,64)


Fera
141 000**
2 units (2,82)



*This number could be a bit larger, as the most up to date populations I could find for Celero are in this table (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?358766-EMPIRE!-CWBG-VII-Dancing-With-Headless-Princesses!-(Fish-Saffron-amp-Ginger-Edition)&p=17689290&viewfull=1#post17689290).
**If I successfully colonise region 75, this number becomes 255 000, which requires of me 5 units (5,1).

It looks okay to me, but I'm also open to 3% instead (especially if the wording of 7) stays as-is).

THIRD EDIT - Celero Population finds.
Celero - 122 000
Bereginia - 38 000
Propinlonge - ???
Galomyr - 122 000
Region 90 discovery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17476412&postcount=396) - Galomyr
Region 39 discovery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17008235&postcount=110) - Propinlonge
Region 39 joins Celero (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17242278&postcount=258) - Propinlonge
Celero Land Post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?351078-Empire!-The-Lands-of-Telluris-(the-fluff-beyond-the-crunch)&p=17535400#post17535400)

EDIT - Kitsanth also offered to extend the following treaty to include potential federation members of a federation including Fera, if you are interested.

Uvrazhen Kostevnik
-The Haljans are permitted to build an embassy in the capital of the Niskovian Steppe, Kishinev
-The Niskans are permitted to build an embassy in the Grove of the Sycamore, a medium-large Haljan town where Allies of Halja may come and go freely on the southern part of Eisswaggs
-The Haljans pledge to protect the Niskans, their lands and assets from mutual outside threats and the Niskans pledge to protect the Haljans, their lands and assets from mutual outside threats
-The Haljans pledge not to harm the Niskans unless the Niskans break Haljan Law and the Niskans pledge not to harm the Haljans unless the Haljans break Niskan Law
-The Haljans and Niskans pledge to share with each other technology which would mutually benefit the two nations

lt_murgen
2014-09-03, 07:25 AM
For the name, there are some things that the three countries have in common. Being coastal and interested in the wellbeing of sentients are the first ones that come to mind, though I can't claim to be the most familiar with everyone's stories.


How about the Free Seas Confederation? Sums up the ideas of being united by water, yet wanting them to be free for trade and travel..



7) No realm may maintain a peace-time standing army or navy, unless infested by pirates, but every Realm is required to keep ready, a well-regulated (meaning well trained), disciplined, and equipped militia, with sufficient public stores of a due number of field pieces, tents, a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No realm may stage troops in another realm without consent of the Congress.


I literally copied the United States Articles of Confederation, with only limited wording changes. I am willing to change it. How about this:

7) Each Realm is required to maintain, at their own cost, a peace-time standing army or navy totaling no more than 7% of their population in men and material. Every Realm is required to maintain the capability to raise a well-regulated (meaning well trained), disciplined, and equipped militia, with sufficient public stores of a due number of field pieces, tents, a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No realm may stage troops in another realm without consent of the Congress.


As far as what to take and what to drop, I am pretty open. I don't mind forgoing curiosity actions, as long as 1) the Federation pushes towards true airships using my aeromancer resource and 2) spends some time exploring the seas.
I'm not certain where logic might want to focus, but I suspect diplomacy.
I have no problem taking up minister of defense- with the Naval academy of the Jeweled Cities, building modern ships of war could be a good fit. I will also continue to push my faith agenda. OF course, if Logic wants to control the military, I'd take Minister of trade and diplomacy.

Rain Dragon
2014-09-03, 07:52 AM
How about the Free Seas Confederation? Sums up the ideas of being united by water, yet wanting them to be free for trade and travel..

I literally copied the United States Articles of Confederation, with only limited wording changes. I am willing to change it. How about this:

7) Each Realm is required to maintain, at their own cost, a peace-time standing army or navy totaling no more than 7% of their population in men and material. Every Realm is required to maintain the capability to raise a well-regulated (meaning well trained), disciplined, and equipped militia, with sufficient public stores of a due number of field pieces, tents, a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No realm may stage troops in another realm without consent of the Congress.

As far as what to take and what to drop, I am pretty open. I don't mind forgoing curiosity actions, as long as 1) the Federation pushes towards true airships using my aeromancer resource and 2) spends some time exploring the seas.
I'm not certain where logic might want to focus, but I suspect diplomacy.
I have no problem taking up minister of defense- with the Naval academy of the Jeweled Cities, building modern ships of war could be a good fit. I will also continue to push my faith agenda. OF course, if Logic wants to control the military, I'd take Minister of trade and diplomacy.

I like the name.

That looks good. I looked at what 3% of our population is as well and the proposed clause is not limiting our army too much at all.

Well, in my planned actions are a few airship projects and rather soon. I would agree to both of those for curiosity actions.

EDIT - Miswording

SECOND EDIT
--IMPORTANT--

I just checked a few things and rather than giving up Faith, Fera would prefer to give up Military instead, if the Federation is to become a reality.

lt_murgen
2014-09-09, 08:08 AM
So, according to the rules, are we going to start this round those great projects we each need to do to form this Confederacy?

Logic
2014-09-09, 08:29 AM
Celero makes most sense to focus on Diplomacy, Curiosity, or Military, in that order. I have not spent a single faith action in this game yet, so let's not give up that streak any time soon.

Concerning Propinlonge's population: We have to reconcile that with Morph.

Also, I would like to add a clause to our mutual federation: Every round must have a minimum of one action spent on a curiosity project within our own borders. This is an agreement between our nations that we are constantly trying to improve our nations and our quality of life.

Rain Dragon
2014-09-09, 08:57 AM
I need to Diplomacy 5 my regions before being able to begin the Great Project, alas. And my rulers are changing this round, though Aipiskaupus would not have Diplomacy 5 until next round anyway.

RP for being released from vassaldom has commenced and is going to be fine. It's happening this round, like I mentioned.

I'm fine with the clause. It's actually one of my vassal agreement terms, oddly enough, and I have been doing Cur projects basically every round anyway.
One issue is that lt_murgen suggested neglecting curiosity, which would make it impossible for him to fulfil this condition.

EDIT - A tentative table.



Player
Specialty
Forbidden


Logic
Diplomacy ???
Faith


lt_murgen
Military
Diplomacy


Rain Dragon
Curiosity
Military



EDIT - Miswording
EDIT - Table updated for personal reference

Logic
2014-09-09, 09:07 AM
I need to Diplomacy 5 my regions before being able to begin the Great Project, alas. And my rulers are changing this round, though Aipiskaupus would not have Diplomacy 5 until next round anyway.

RP for being released from vassaldom has commenced and is going to be fine. It's happening this round, like I mentioned.

I'm fine with the clause. It's actually one of my vassal agreement terms, oddly enough, and I have been doing Cur projects basically every round anyway.
One issue is that lt_murgen suggested neglecting curiosity, which would make it impossible for him to fulfil this condition.

EDIT - A tentative table.



Player
Specialty
Forbidden


Logic
Diplomacy ???
Faith


lt_murgen
Military ???
Curiosity ???


Rain Dragon
Curiosity
Military



EDIT - Miswording
If Murgen is going to continue with his "pirate island" themed nation, he really should be forsaking diplomacy. :smalltongue:

lt_murgen
2014-09-09, 09:40 AM
If Murgen is going to continue with his "pirate island" themed nation, he really should be forsaking diplomacy. :smalltongue:

Actually, I was going to suggest that I forgo diplomacy. I will continue to explore the seas (curiosity), but leave the actual negotiations of bringing in new territories to the seasoned veterans of Celero. As long as we distribute the regions and (more importantly) the trading posts appropriately.

I will then be the military advisor, building up armies and navies. And faith will be a secondary concern for me, independent of Federation duties.

We have 5 rounds or more until this happens, so I'll try to get my diplomacy up to a respectable level (4-6) before dropping it once the Federation happens.

Rain Dragon
2014-09-09, 09:54 AM
Ach, I can't stabilise my regions for a couple of rounds. Which is over a month away.
I realise this may make you both wish to stab me... /awkward

EDIT - For the Great Project, though, since it is a GP, we can assist each other on them and make them more like 2 rounds, I think?
SECOND EDIT - According to calculations, I can begin the Great Project in round 27, 460-465CC.

Logic
2014-09-09, 10:38 AM
Ach, I can't stabilise my regions for a couple of rounds. Which is over a month away.
I realise this may make you both wish to stab me... /awkward

EDIT - For the Great Project, though, since it is a GP, we can assist each other on them and make them more like 2 rounds, I think?
SECOND EDIT - According to calculations, I can begin the Great Project in round 27, 460-465CC.

Unfortunately, the rules specifically state the great project that establishes a Federation may not be assisted by anyone.

Rain Dragon
2014-09-09, 10:44 AM
Unfortunately, the rules specifically state the great project that establishes a Federation may not be assisted by anyone.

Really? That is... Well, that is cumbersome.
My bad.

EDIT - I just checked with the rules for rolling a new ruler and apparently I messed up, but it means I can start the GP in round twenty-six, 455-459 instead.

lt_murgen
2014-09-09, 11:35 AM
Really? That is... Well, that is cumbersome.
My bad.

EDIT - I just checked with the rules for rolling a new ruler and apparently I messed up, but it means I can start the GP in round twenty-six, 455-459 instead.

Well, if I were a rules lawyer, I would argue that no federation is created until after the great project is done, and you need to be stable to create a federation. I don't see anywhere where it says you cannot do your great project simultaneously with stabilizing your regions. I intend to start the project this round and stabilize the Bloomenwald in this round.

Logic
2014-09-09, 12:30 PM
Just got word from Morph: Propinlonges population is initially 92,000. Not I get to try and search through all the threads for population increases since its discovery.

EDIT: And round 20 saw an increase of 15,000 to Propinlonge, for a new total of 117,000 107,000 Propinlonges.

EDIT 2: My math sucks sometimes. And to think, I married a math teacher.

lt_murgen
2014-09-09, 01:28 PM
Just got word from Morph: Propinlonges population is initially 92,000. Not I get to try and search through all the threads for population increases since its discovery.

EDIT: And round 20 saw an increase of 15,000 to Propinlonge, for a new total of 117,000 Propinlonges.

Propinlonges? Propinlongii? Propinlongus? Pretty Politely Popular Populace of Propinlinge? Props.

Logic
2014-09-09, 02:13 PM
Propinlonges? Propinlongii? Propinlongus? Pretty Politely Popular Populace of Propinlinge? Props.

Good show! I laughed.

This round, I am introducing a new technology, Inspired Militia. I have already run it by Morph, but it is a situational bonus to Militia combat Strength.
Militia, when fighting with no support, grant a final +1 to their combat strength. If supported solely by foreign allied troops, militia lose this bonus. However, if supported by troops of the same nation, regardless of foreign troop support, they receive +2 to total combat. (This bonus is applied after normal calculation of militia strength.)

I'll send this technology to you guys next round, and other techs (one per round) as we get closer and closer to Federated. Make your wants known, and I'll send you those techs first.

Also, if anyone has CUR5 actions to spend, let's coordinate what new resources could most benefit us as a whole from this point forward. With my next CUR-10, I will make Improved Medicine (with aloe as a required resource, mechanical bonus currently unknown)

Rain Dragon
2014-09-09, 03:23 PM
Well, I hope that works. I still can't start the project until next round as being released from vassaldom doesn't take effect until then, but if it works then everything just sort of falls into place a lot neater with my actions.

As for Curiosity 5, I did really want to introduce woodland herbs (including things such as wormwood and green anise) into my third region whenever I end up getting one. If that's not for the Greater Good then I guess I'll just have to be slightly sad about it.

As for technology, is this also keeping in mind I have to share it with Kitsanth's nation? None of the ones you have particularly stand out to me.

Logic
2014-09-09, 03:27 PM
Well, I hope that works. I still can't start the project until next round as being released from vassaldom doesn't take effect until then, but if it works then everything just sort of falls into place a lot neater with my actions.

As for Curiosity 5, I did really want to introduce woodland herbs (including things such as wormwood and green anise) into my third region whenever I end up getting one. If that's not for the Greater Good then I guess I'll just have to be slightly sad about it.

As for technology, is this also keeping in mind I have to share it with Kitsanth's nation? None of the ones you have particularly stand out to me.

That's fine.

Since Celero has a tricameral legislature, and we are moving forward with federating, do you want to fluff that the senate/house of lords/house of commons represents everyone in the Free Seas Federation, not just those of Celero?

lt_murgen
2014-09-09, 05:42 PM
Also, if anyone has CUR5 actions to spend, let's coordinate what new resources could most benefit us as a whole from this point forward. With my next CUR-10, I will make Improved Medicine (with aloe as a required resource, mechanical bonus currently unknown)

I like that Improved medicine.


As for Curiosity 5, I did really want to introduce woodland herbs (including things such as wormwood and green anise) into my third region whenever I end up getting one. If that's not for the Greater Good then I guess I'll just have to be slightly sad about it.


Well, we can always Curiosity the woodland herbs into working as the Improved Medicine slot at some point, giving us more opportunities to trade. I was thinking the same for my Bloomewald plants which is piled full of special plants.


Since Celero has a tricameral legislature, and we are moving forward with federating, do you want to fluff that the senate/house of lords/house of commons represents everyone in the Free Seas Federation, not just those of Celero?

We've got 25 years of development before we can Federate. I'd set up your legislature as you need in Celero.


Finally, are we set with the following?


Player
Minister of?
Forbids


Logic
Diplomacy
Faith


RainDragon
Curiosity
Military


lt_murgen
Military
Diplomacy



that is the functional rules stuff. It determines which one we focus on, and which we ignore. We use our leader's stats for the relevant rolls.

For fluff, the idea is that The Confederation Congress is made up of 9 voting members, three from each of us. Out of the 9, they appointed one lead "Administrator" or "Minister" or "Secretary" or something for Trade and Treaty (diplomacy), Defense (military), and Enrichment (Curiosity). The other 8 all get a vote on anything those Administrators decide.

Now, if your region decides that their Administrator also happens to be their regent, so be it. How each of us fills those 3 voting positions is up to the individual realm. If you want it to be the King and two lackeys, so be it. If you want it to be elected positions from the rabble, so be it. With the exception of war, we have always hand waved who actually does what when it comes to rolling. For instance, our leaders are not usually the inventors of our curiosity 5 improvements.

Rain Dragon
2014-09-09, 10:36 PM
I'm not lifting my trade restrictions, though...
And then there would be doubling up whereas the herbs were supposed to be more food and spirits focussed.

(EDIT - And... Admittedly, poison...)

EDIT - As for political structure of Celero becoming Federation-wide, it seems too modern to me for the times just yet.

lt_murgen
2014-09-10, 07:00 AM
I'm not lifting my trade restrictions, though...
And then there would be doubling up whereas the herbs were supposed to be more food and spirits focussed.

(EDIT - And... Admittedly, poison...)

EDIT - As for political structure of Celero becoming Federation-wide, it seems too modern to me for the times just yet.

On the herbs, just a thought.

The nice thing about the confederation is we keep our own internal structures. I modeled it after the articles of confederation for the United States. That had a very states-rights focus, and was light on federal government.

One thing we will have to do once we confederate is straighten out all our treaties and alliances. Our Celerese delgation will have their hands full for a while. Perhaps on the round we get there officially, we need to have an event.

Rain Dragon
2014-09-10, 07:36 AM
I was responding to Logic's suggestion that the wider government be a tricameral legislature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricameralism) style system like Celero's current system. There are examples of it in the 'Earth' time period parallel to Telluris'.

I really hate to be 'that guy' but I'd rather mention it early than leave it until later. I'm starting to realise that your two nations and my nation do not have enough parallel goals for the federation to properly work out with my nation as a third. Especially considering the way my nation functions compared to the federation rules (i.e. I would be severely crippling myself).

I'll stop following the thread now, so you don't have to move.

lt_murgen
2014-09-10, 08:02 AM
Well, that sucks. I was looking forward to working with Rain.

Logic, do you want to abandon the idea, then? I'm out of other's to try to bring in.

Logic
2014-09-10, 08:19 AM
Well, that sucks. I was looking forward to working with Rain.

Logic, do you want to abandon the idea, then? I'm out of other's to try to bring in.

Federating may not be the best choice. Let's ask Morph about the diarchy idea I proposed a while back. He seemed open to some kind of diarchy rules, and maybe he will go for a modification of the Federation rules for it.

lt_murgen
2014-09-10, 09:34 AM
I was looking through the nations rules. Currently we have two major way countries interact: Great Kingdoms, vassals, leiges and empires; and Federations.

I had a thought about a third political system we might introduce. The League.

Leagues are a step above treaties, but not quite to the unified political entities of Kingdoms and Federations. It requires two or more nations. Nations can be kingdoms, great kingdoms, or empires, but not part of Federations. Each member of the League maintains its own political structure. However, one member from the other league states must be included in the political structure somehow.

There are three types of Leagues, but a given League may contain any or all of the component leagues. Each league grants certain benefits:

Military league: Once per round, a league member may declare a military action “league Business”. Either a specific other league member or all league members can benefit from that action. For example, this allows league members to build military units for other members. It also allows sharing of Mil 5 agents and Mil 10 winning tactics to all league members.

Commerce League: This is similar to the military, except it allows for sharing of Diplomacy actions. This includes special actions, such as stabilization

Development league: This is similar to the military, except it allows for sharing of Curiosity actions. This includes such actions as exploration bonuses and special actions.

League members may only benefit from 1 league business action per league member per round. League members cannot benefit from multiple instances of the same type of league action per round. For example, a 5 nation league cannot have 4 nations building military units for the 5th in a given round. Only 1 other nation may help with military, though others may help with diplomatic or curiosity actions.

To form a league, each nation must have all their regions politically stable. Each type of league requires a 2 round special project to create. So if you want to have a league that is a military, commerce, and development league, that is 3 separate 2 round projects. They may be done concurrently, but no outside help or project reducing technology may be employed.

The disadvantage of a League is that growth is limited by member states. No member state may control more than 2 regions over any other member state. Transferring control of a region to another member state requires an action, and that region is considered unstable until an action is taken to stabilize it.

In addition, each type of league has its own diadvantage:
Military- home region military cap is reduced to 5%, to match adjacent regions.
Commerce- One out of every 4 available trading posts must be under the control of another league member, with a minimum of 1.
Development- No member state can assist in great projects to reduce the number of rounds required. Their assistance is assumed as part of the 5 round requirement.

lt_murgen
2014-09-11, 01:23 PM
I PM'd the above post to Morph, to get his opinions.

Logic
2014-09-12, 12:16 PM
I wonder if Morph would give a go ahead for a Diarchy. For example, I could RP the crown side of things, while you RP the constitutional side of things. I.E. the King and the Prime Minister (which, coincidentally, per the Celero constitution must be elected from the House of Commons, which is more in line with the way AQUA does business.)

In this way, we could have a great Kingdom that is shared with shared responsibilities.