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View Full Version : 3rd Ed Need Advice: Cheap Item-based Attack Options for 12th Level Wizard



Quiet Wizard
2014-09-02, 04:24 PM
Hey Giants.

I need some advice for my 12th level Wizard build. My wizard needs some cheap magic items that give him Standard Action attack options while his Swift Action is being used for his concentration-based attack spells (Telekinesis, Spectral Dragon, Manyjaws). As you can imagine, yes - I'm using the Swift Concentration skill trick. Which means I can use my Standard Action for things like Wands, Staves, spell-trigger items, etc.

Our DM has about 4 combat encounters a day. And with my wizard's schtick being the above-mentioned concentration-based spells, I figure I need to have item-based attack options for about 10-12 Standard Actions per adventuring day - at the minimum.

The issue is, at 12th level, we're gonna face a lot of creatures with challenging SR and high-ish saves (we're going into Drow Elf territory). So magic items (except for staves) that have spell attacks with saves and SR=Yes [as many wands tend to be] are gonna suck.

Currently, I have 1 Eternal Wand of Silent Image (SR=No and "who cares about the save due to interaction rules") and 1 Rod of Viscid Globs [MIC]. Both of these are ideal cheapo combat item options for the daunting 12th level environment we're in. That gives me 5 Standard Actions to keep my Wizard's Standard Action productively occupied while swift-actioning with his concentration spells.

Can you help me find some other cheap magic item options? I have about 6,000 gp to spend. I may be able to finagle some more if the options are compelling.

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All 3.0/3.5 books welcome. 2nd/3rd party material will be considered - but no guarantee. Thank you!

Xerlith
2014-09-02, 04:40 PM
A wand of Empowered Scorching Ray?
Wand of Black Tentacles.

Wand of Orb of X. It gives a small debuff and unavoidable damage, however small.

I like Vortex of Teeth myself, but it's a SR=Yes spell.

Quiet Wizard
2014-09-02, 04:54 PM
I wish I had the 21,000 gp to acquire those wands. As it is, I have around 6,000 gp.

Wand of Web looks enticing at 4,500 gp though. No SR. Even if the victims save, they still get entangled. And the Web hampers movement and provides tactically-placed cover.

Although since I'm facing Drow and their minions, there may be a notable number of opponents that are immune-to or barely-affected-by magic Webs.

AnonymousPepper
2014-09-02, 05:54 PM
If you're able to, grab a few schemas of some useful BC spells. Yeah, they're 1/day, but they're 1/day forever and go up to 5th level. Black Tentacles is a great choice.

QuickLyRaiNbow
2014-09-02, 06:00 PM
If there's an easy way for you to get a reserve feat or two, that would seem like a decent use of spare actions.

Otherwise, maybe an eternal wand or two. Grease is always a favorite for me.

Quiet Wizard
2014-09-02, 06:44 PM
@Anonymous Pepper - Good call on the Schemas. That gives me more comparative options for a cost-to-usage analysis for a given spell. Schemas, Wands & Eternal Wands being the primary comparison vehicles.

@QuickLyRaiNbow - Aye, Grease (as the afore-mentioned Web) scales well into higher levels and is multi-utility. Wish I could get a Reserve Feat - but alas, all my feat slots are locked-in. That would solve all my problems right there. :-/

bjoern
2014-09-02, 07:06 PM
Wand of sclupted grease

Wand of glitter dust

Thurbane
2014-09-03, 07:11 AM
Are partially charged wands allowed?

At 6,000gp, you could buy a wand of Great Thunderclap (SC, p.107) with about 26 charges for 6,000gp. SR: no, and three separate saves (one of each) to avoid being stunned, knocked prone, and deafened, respectively.

Probably a bit pricey for what you get, though. An eternal wand of Great Thunderclap would be a hefty 10,900 gp, sadly.

Zirconia
2014-09-03, 06:14 PM
I like the Wand of Glitterdust option, Drow are likely to do a lot of attacking from hidden/darkness/invisible/etc. so even if the Wand saves are lousy they'll be revealed. Grease may be more problematic, if they have good Reflex saves, though it might be an interesting tactical option since unlike monsters they may be carrying important items which you can Grease and make them drop.

For a third level spell, Flashburst is nice battlefield control if you have a really large area (120' radius) you need to cover and/or you aren't sure where the foes are. Better if you can convince the DM that your group has practiced together to blink when it goes off, so you can include your area in the larger radius of "line of sight".

saxavarius
2014-09-03, 09:49 PM
Don't forget that even if the save for grease is made anything in the area is considered flat-footed unless they have 5+ ranks in balance

I love when the DM forgets that and the party rogue is able to clean up.

atomicwaffle
2014-09-03, 10:04 PM
Monk's Belt. Gives you an unarmed attack, and if your wisdom is high enough, a nice bonus to AC. You can also carry around a greatsword and Tenser's Transformation every now and then.

I prefer AOE's that ignore spell resistance though, like Evard's Black Tentacles. If they have crappy grapple checks, they're doomed (did i mention it's the exact radius of a fireball and denies them their reflex saving throw if they're grappled?). This thing kills casters dead.

Earth Reaver is also a great spell (no save), Along with Orb of Force (no save, always hits, not many things with DR force). Transmuting Rock to Mud underneath the ground of your opponents to getting them waist-deep in mud. Sound lance is also a great spell because its save is fortitude and its sonic damage. Also, with polymorph at that level, you can transform into a Gorgon and use it's breath attack (fort or turn to stone).

jiriku
2014-09-03, 10:08 PM
If you're facing enemies with strong saves and spell resistance, consider avoiding attack spells and focusing on buffs and terrain modification via wands and scrolls. Note that a quill of scribing will let you create one scroll appropriate for your anticipated needs per night, and it's cheap.

Spells that wand nicely and fit the bill might include:
kelgore's grave mist
haste
snake's swiftness
mass snake's swiftness
wall of chains
wall of sand
mirror image
displacement
benign transposition
greater invisibility
polymorph
keen edge
dolorous blow
girallon's blessing

bjoern
2014-09-03, 10:11 PM
Don't forget that even if the save for grease is made anything in the area is considered flat-footed unless they have 5+ ranks in balance

I love when the DM forgets that and the party rogue is able to clean up.

Only if they try to move. Only moving forces a balance check . If they are standing still they still get dex to ac and don't have to roll balance upon taking a hit


From SRD

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. This save is repeated on your turn each round that the creature remains within the area. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details).

Darrin
2014-09-04, 06:44 AM
Only if they try to move. Only moving forces a balance check . If they are standing still they still get dex to ac and don't have to roll balance upon taking a hit


Under the Balance rules in the Skills section, it also says you need to make balance checks if you're attacked while standing on a slippery/uneven surface. In order to properly defend yourself from attacks, you need to be able to move within the square without worrying about where you put your feet:

"Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren't considered flat-footed while balancing. If you take damage while balancing, you must make another Balance check against the same DC to remain standing."

However, it's ambiguous in the text if "while balancing" means that you've already made a Balance check or if you're just standing on a slippery surface. (The grease spell is also a little weird in that it requires a Ref save, not a Balance check, when you cast it.) It could be argued that you can't be balancing until you've made an actual Balance check. However, most groups don't adhere to this degree of literalness, and just say if a rogue attacks you while you're standing on something slippery, you're flat-footed unless you have 5 ranks in the Balance skill. It's up to the DM or your group's personal tastes to go by RAI (Rules As Intended) or RAW (Rules As Written).

phaenix
2014-09-04, 07:27 AM
Remember that skill tricks only function once per encounter, so you are going to be using standard actions for concentrating most of the time.

Quiet Wizard
2014-09-05, 07:35 AM
Remember that skill tricks only function once per encounter, so you are going to be using standard actions for concentrating most of the time.

I only plan on using 1 concentration-based spell per encounter. So while Manyjaws is doing its thing for 3 rounds via Swift Concentration skill trick, I need to occupy my standard actions with useful activity.

At least I can use Swift Concentration for Telekinesis and Spectral Dragon for a lot longer per encounter (until the enemy is defeated).

Xerlith
2014-09-05, 09:17 AM
I only plan on using 1 concentration-based spell per encounter. So while Manyjaws is doing its thing for 3 rounds via Swift Concentration skill trick, I need to occupy my standard actions with useful activity.

At least I can use Swift Concentration for Telekinesis and Spectral Dragon for a lot longer per encounter (until the enemy is defeated).

What he meant is that you can use it once. You are concentrating once per round, every round. The skill trick allows you to concentrate as a swift action only ONCE. As in one round.

That's at least how I understand it.

Quiet Wizard
2014-09-05, 05:45 PM
Nowhere does it say that this Skill Trick can only be used once per encounter for 1 turn. Here's the "benefit text" ...

Benefit:
You can maintain concentration on a spell or similar effect as a swift action.

So it looks like you can maintain concentration ... with no limitation of "1 round".

********************

Also, here's the errata. Which is even more interesting.

Page 17 – Best Skill Tricks:
Swift Concentration
[Substitution]
The text should instead read,
“Concentrate on an ongoing spell and
then fire off another spell.”

Quiet Wizard
2014-09-06, 06:40 PM
Thanks for all your suggestions, everyone.

Even though my gold-piece total is only around 6,100 -- I found a number of good options for my Standard Action.