Getting Rid of the Titanium Elemental

[Legendary]

Obviously, an Oxygen Elemental is necessary (per Titanium Elemental). In fact, TWO are necessary (or maybe, since oxygen is diatomic, so are the elementals, and you get a two-for-one deal....). Where was I? Oh yes.

Now then, there are two possibilities. Either the chemical reaction kills all elementals involved. Or, we get five lovely Titanium Dioxide Elementals, which will probably manifest themselves as powder. This powder is rather pathetic, the worst damage it would manage to pull off would be its wonderful ability to make everything white. It's also a sunscreen.

[HomerHT]

How about a Nitrogen Elemental with breath weapon? Nitrogen gas burns titanium :)

[TARINunit9]

Titanium is a metal. It's fireproof.
Anyway, all you do is summon a SUPER water elemental or something. Since Titanium is a metal, its vulnerable to corrosion. OOH! or use a rust monster or 12!

[HomerHT]

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Ti/key.html

"The metal burns in air and is the only element that burns in nitrogen."

[PirateMonk]

Titanium is a metal. It's fireproof.
Anyway, all you do is summon a SUPER water elemental or something. Since Titanium is a metal, its vulnerable to corrosion. OOH! or use a rust monster or 12!

I also don't think it can form iron oxides, like rust.

[Kreistor]

Just carve it up with steel weapons. Titanium is harder than steel in terms of hardness:mass, but it's lighter than steel, which winds up with it being softer than steel relative to volume. Basically, titanium makes terrible weapons: a titanium sword would be cut in half by a steel sword. At best, give it DR 5/adamantium. Just step up with the greatswords and carve it into pieces.

Sure, they'd be okay against low damage weapons and mooks, but the OotS should cut them up like butter.

[Behold_the_Void]

Just carve it up with steel weapons. Titanium is harder than steel in terms of hardness:mass, but it's lighter than steel, which winds up with it being softer than steel relative to volume. Basically, titanium makes terrible weapons: a titanium sword would be cut in half by a steel sword. At best, give it DR 5/adamantium. Just step up with the greatswords and carve it into pieces.

Sure, they'd be okay against low damage weapons and mooks, but the OotS should cut them up like butter.

Problem with that is the OotS are making a bee-line for Xykon.

[Legendary]

Kreistor, you don't get it. I'm bragging by showing off my chemistry knowledge. :P

Naw, it's a VERY good idea.

[Kreistor]

I can't show off my metallurgical knowledge?

[Legendary]

Oh, ALL right. But only if you get me a Thog-plushie. :P

[roadkiller]

Titanium is a metal. It's fireproof.


As previously quoted,


The metal, which burns in air, is the only element that burns in nitrogen. (http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/periodic/7.htm)

We've also got:

-Magnesium: Magnesium is a light, silvery-white, and fairly tough metal. It tarnishes slightly in air, and finely divided magnesium readily ignites upon heating in air and burns with a dazzling white flame.
-Sodium: It may or may not ignite spontaneously on water, depending on the amount of oxide and metal exposed to the water. It normally does not ignite in air at temperatures below 115C.
-Lithium: Lithium imparts a beautiful crimson color to a flame, but when the metal burns strongly, the flame is a dazzling white.
-Zirconium: When finely divided, the metal may ignite spontaneously in air, especially at elevated temperatures.

That's actual flames, other metals react with oxygen in various ways such as rusting or tarnishing. It's not actually the water that causes rust, it is just a common catalyst. It's the oxygen or one of a few other gasses.

The reaction information can be found at http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/periodic/ or any number of other sites with periodic tables.


Now for the actual comic. I really doubt that it'll be any clever solution at all. It'll just be the whole "throw low levels at it until it falls down" solution. In other words, not really important enough to be focused on for very long.

[Assassinfox]

... or just cast Dismissal.

[Legendary]

Hmm... That lacks the punch (and lingering side effects) of my plan...

[Eriol]

Titanium is a metal. It's fireproof.
You didn't pass chemistry did you?

[Copacetic]

Hmmm. I know! We get a Iron element and a alumnium element and grind them VERY finely. Then we mix them together and throw them into Xykon/ Xykon's army and BAM! Insta victory.

[Legendary]

Hmmm. I know! We get a Iron element and a alumnium element and grind them VERY finely. Then we mix them together and throw them into Xykon/ Xykon's army and BAM! Insta victory.
Elementals grinding? That brings SO many disturbing mental images to mind. :smalleek:

:smalltongue:

[otakuryoga]

yes titanium will burn...hard to get it started......but once you do----its VERY hard to put out

when titanium parts of jets have caught on fire on carrier decks they dont even try to put it out...just push it over the side so ocean can put it out

[Indon]

Hmmm. I know! We get a Iron element and a alumnium element and grind them VERY finely. Then we mix them together and throw them into Xykon/ Xykon's army and BAM! Insta victory.

Isn't a proper iron-aluminum alloy like, 90% of one metal and 10% of the other? I forget which...

[Hario]

This topic made me think of something and WoTC has been holding out for FAR too long on being actually correct. I Vote we petition the name change of the Monster from Rust Monster to Oxidation Monster. The reason is a rust monster can 'Rust' any type of metal, when some metals don't actually rust but go through the change called Oxidation like the Copper on the Statue of Liberty turning green, it will eventually weaken because of the oxidation.

[J_Muller]

Hmmm. I know! We get a Iron element and a alumnium element and grind them VERY finely. Then we mix them together and throw them into Xykon/ Xykon's army and BAM! Insta victory.


...actually, that would just burn a big hole straight down into the ground.

[TARINunit9]

Just carve it up with steel weapons. Titanium is harder than steel in terms of hardness:mass, but it's lighter than steel, which winds up with it being softer than steel relative to volume. Basically, titanium makes terrible weapons: a titanium sword would be cut in half by a steel sword. At best, give it DR 5/adamantium. Just step up with the greatswords and carve it into pieces.

Sure, they'd be okay against low damage weapons and mooks, but the OotS should cut them up like butter.

You're thinking of density (or something similar). Titanium is always harder than steel, regardless of volume.

[TARINunit9]

This topic made me think of something and WoTC has been holding out for FAR too long on being actually correct. I Vote we petition the name change of the Monster from Rust Monster to Oxidation Monster. The reason is a rust monster can 'Rust' any type of metal, when some metals don't actually rust but go through the change called Oxidation like the Copper on the Statue of Liberty turning green, it will eventually weaken because of the oxidation.

As far as I know, the rust monster causes magical corrosion, not a sped up version of oxidation. Wait, does it really matter?

And for all you guy ragging me about saying that metals are "fireproof": You have a mage shoot a fireball at the elemental. Does it catch fire? No. An animated tree would, but not a metal elemental!
So there! :smalltongue:

[Silverlocke980]

Titanium don't rust.

You could, alternatively, summon an Elemental of Anti-Elemental! Yeah, that would work!

Woo!

...Okay, yeah, that might not work. But it could be fun!

[The Extinguisher]

Tarin, if it was a Magnesium Elemental it would.

[Vonriel]

If it was a Magnesium Elemental I would set it on fire myself. That much magnesium should at the very least blind every defender as it burns out their corneas, and anyone anywhere near it would practically be melted. Come to think of it, if Redcloak did pass chemistry, why didn't he do that :smalltongue:

[TARINunit9]

Titanium don't rust.

You could, alternatively, summon an Elemental of Anti-Elemental! Yeah, that would work!

Woo!

...Okay, yeah, that might not work. But it could be fun!

The monster manual said the metal doesn't have to be iron or steel for a rust monster to corrode it. The manual said that a rust monster can heavily tarnish, and thus destroy, gold and silver and other metals.

And an elemental of "anti-element stuff" would destroy itself the instant you summon it!

[Legendary]

He's already summoned a Magnesium Elemental- see Paladin Blues. It didn't work. Easier to dispell, I guess. Or perhaps he is using other Elementals because you're required to use the entire periodic table before you can reuse an elemental.

What? It could be the reason...

[13_CBS]

Oh, a thing on the MAgnesium elemental; no, setting it on fire would not be a good option.

Why? Because it would be rather difficult to set it on fire anyways. A fellow on Popular Science once said that he held up a blowtorch against piece of solid magnesium and it failed to burst into flames for 20 minutes.

As for the thermite idea...nice try, but nah, as another poster said it'd burn a hole in the ground.

[Finwe]

The problem with thermite burning a hole in the ground is that between the air and the ground is an army. So in order to burn a hole in the ground, it would first have to burn through the army, which was the original intent...

And Tarin: titanium has a higher strength/weight ratio than iron, but iron is much more dense than titanium; so much denser that an iron bar is stronger than a titanium bar of the same dimensions.

Anyways, why not just summon a plutonium elemental and be done with it? If the massive explosion doesn't get 'em, the radiation will. And as we all know, radiation produces mutant zombies!



In addition, why burn Magnesium, when you can keep going down the alkalines and get to Franconium? It's far more [chemically] reactive than magnesium, and radioactive to boot!

[J_Muller]

The problem with thermite burning a hole in the ground is that between the air and the ground is an army. So in order to burn a hole in the ground, it would first have to burn through the army, which was the original intent...


Yeah, but it doesn't make a very large hole. It'll hit, burn some soldiers up, and then just burn straight down. Getting enough thermite to make a ball large enough to do significant damage wouldn't be worth the effort. You could achieve the same real effect for less effort by just dropping a fireball on them.

Personally, I think they should just shoot a Cesium Elemental and a Water Elemental at the same spot. Or a Carbon Monoxide Elemental. Actually, since you can have an Air Elemental, than more complex gas compounds should be allowed, so why not go all the way and lob a Sarin Elemental over the walls?

[Finwe]

Yeah, but it doesn't make a very large hole. It'll hit, burn some soldiers up, and then just burn straight down. Getting enough thermite to make a ball large enough to do significant damage wouldn't be worth the effort. You could achieve the same real effect for less effort by just dropping a fireball on them.

Well, if the elementals are on the same scale as the titanium elemental that was thrown, then you could conceivably create a very large amount of thermite.


Personally, I think they should just shoot a Cesium Elemental and a Water Elemental at the same spot. Or a Carbon Monoxide Elemental. Actually, since you can have an Air Elemental, than more complex gas compounds should be allowed, so why not go all the way and lob a Sarin Elemental over the walls?



Again, why settle for less than Franconium? (it's more reactive than Cesium). And a Sarin elemental is an oxymoron - Sarin is a compound.

[Payne]

People, people, this conversation his demented!
Plutonium elementals? Sarin elementals??

...besides half the army are undead and wouldnt be blinded, suffer from radioactivity or die from sarin poison. :smalltongue::smallwink:

[kire]

I just want to be the first to say that one thing trumps all: Antimatter Elemental.

[Legendary]

One minor problem: You unleash that upon yourself. Antimatter blows up when it comes into contact with matter, and there's plenty of that. Air molecules, for starters. After that, the ground its standing on. Maybe anyone unfortunate enough to wander within range. Works for if you're surrounded and suicidal, but not too good from a (slightly) fortified city with the enemy far away.

And again, the radiation would end up being the weapon in this case, as all the antimatter would be used up quickly. I don't think the undead would care about that.

[CardinalFang]

This is getting way too complicated -- who needs radioactive fallout? A much simpler solution is in order, if we are willing to think outside the box a little. For example, an elemental of any gas denser than air could easily suffocate nearby hobgoblins (zombies would presumably be immune). If the choice is something interesting, like Chlorine or Fluorine, then suffocation becomes a less pressing concern in the face of cellular damage and corrosion. The addition of a friendly Hydrogen elemental (weighted down so it doesn't float off) adds some explosive damage as well.

[13_CBS]

Helium elementals for squeaky sounding hobgobs!

[The Extinguisher]

But do you realize how cold it would need to be the create a Helium elemental that is a solid and useful? If you can do that, why not just use it on your enemies. Helium's melting point is like 1 degree Kelvin!

I say, get a Francium Fluoride Compoundal and you can do anything. Especially if what you want to to is cause massive reactions.

[13_CBS]

Err...I proposed the idea of the Helium elemental for the sake of humor, not for destruction O_o

[CardinalFang]

Compoundal? Hmm. I still think that's way too complicated, though (even if the light show would be pretty.) I mean, if we can make compounds, it would be just as simple to make some basic acids (get it? A chem pun!), or a bunch of water elementals to drown everyone. Or maybe a way to summon the water elementals underground...liquefaction!

[J_Muller]

Again, why settle for less than Franconium? (it's more reactive than Cesium). And a Sarin elemental is an oxymoron - Sarin is a compound.

Because it's unstable and might not hold together long enough. Also, if you can have a Air Elemental, you can have a Sarin elemental--air's a mixture.

[PaladinFreak]

I haven't even taken chem yet! :smallfrown:

Couldn't you just combine some elementals to make Cyanide gas? That would be an army leveler.

[The Extinguisher]

Then you would need Carbon elementals and Nitrogen Elementals and make ions and the whole thing takes to long, when you could whip out a can of Lithium Elementals.

If you get a caster in there with the power to create water, you can send them on suicide runs. Fun fun.

[CardinalFang]

I haven't even taken chem yet! :smallfrown:

Couldn't you just combine some elementals to make Cyanide gas? That would be an army leveler.
Raw almond elemental? Just as long as they don't think of summoning a fire elemental (ok, a reactional) to turn them into toasty granola elementals...

Plus, I don't think cyanide would be at all harmful to zombies...they don't really have homeostatic processes to mess with, do they?

[Finwe]

I just want to be the first to say that one thing trumps all: Antimatter Elemental.

The problem is that there's really no way to contain anti-matter, as others have said.




Because it's unstable and might not hold together long enough. Also, if you can have a Air Elemental, you can have a Sarin elemental--air's a mixture.


There's a big difference between mixtures and compounds. A mixture of Oxygen and Nitrogen is vastly different from Nitrous Oxide. I guess if you were to summon the right elementals in the right proportions, and then force them to mix and react, you could create a Sarin elemental though.


Also, a 20 minute half life gives you more than enough time to summon one and set it on fire. The radiation's a plus.



This is getting way too complicated -- who needs radioactive fallout? A much simpler solution is in order, if we are willing to think outside the box a little. For example, an elemental of any gas denser than air could easily suffocate nearby hobgoblins (zombies would presumably be immune). If the choice is something interesting, like Chlorine or Fluorine, then suffocation becomes a less pressing concern in the face of cellular damage and corrosion. The addition of a friendly Hydrogen elemental (weighted down so it doesn't float off) adds some explosive damage as well.


Would such an elemental really be practical though? You could only effect so many hobgoblins at a time, and you could probably kill more just by summoning an iron elemental.

[CardinalFang]

I suppose it really depends on if gaseous elementals spread, or are contained in a humanoid shape. I mean, if the typical Air Elemental is restricted in volume, then I guess a Fluorine Elemental wouldn't expand either. Too bad, I really liked that idea.

[Professor Tanhauser]

As I said in another post, a big lighting bolt could heat it hot enough to kill it, even if titanium is heat resistant.

Another option might be extreme, sudden cold that could cause it to chatter. Cast fireball on it one round, then cone of cold. It shatters.

[Vonriel]

Heh, I just had a funny thought that, for some reason, comes in the form of an advertisement.

New! Try our ethanol elementals! Just as functional as water elementals, but they come with the added bonus of intoxicating and blinding your enemies! And yourself, if you get too close. Call now for our new ethanol elementals!


I'm gonna go sit in that corner now while the chem nerds buffs roast my idea on a spit.

[Finwe]

Heh, I just had a funny thought that, for some reason, comes in the form of an advertisement.

New! Try our ethanol elementals! Just as functional as water elementals, but they come with the added bonus of intoxicating and blinding your enemies! And yourself, if you get too close. Call now for our new ethanol elementals!


I'm gonna go sit in that corner now while the chem nerds buffs roast my idea on a spit.




If you tried to roast it on a spit, it'd catch on fire! Ethanol is flammable, after all.

[Gri]

Got nerd?
Yes I belive so.

[The Familiar]

...
Um, why not just banish it?

Oh, wait--that's too easy.:smalltongue:

[Sampi]

Or, we get five lovely Titanium Dioxide Elementals, which will probably manifest themselves as powder. This powder is rather pathetic, the worst damage it would manage to pull off would be its wonderful ability to make everything white. It's also a sunscreen.

Unless you get larger crystals of sphene, which could just be like normal earth elementals. Besides, a sunscreen elemental might be nice for those light-sensitive troops like vampires, orcs and nerds.

[Erk]

Water is not an element either, it is also a compound. Therefore, a sarin elemental would be feasible. In fact, the four canon elementals - Fire, Water, Air, and Earth - consist of a chemical reaction with a visible plasma, a compound, a mixture, and a bioactive melange of various compounds, mixtures, raw elements, and living organisms. The only thing that none of them are is... well, elemental. Hehe.

But gaseous attacks are devastating to the attacker as well. If you can summon stuff like sarin elementals or franconium elementals, just summon up a nice solid steel elemental (preferably stainless) - or adamantium perhaps - and smash the damn enemy. It's far less likely to get caught in the wind and hit your own troops, or to cause fallout. It is not flammable, so not easily damaged by fireballs, and it is really heavy so a big enough one will just trample the foe.

[Albion]

Magic will clearly have to completely disappear from the OotS world before they've got a full grasp of the periodic system of elements as far as we do. Otherwise all hell breaks loose. In our world, that has already happened, the magic has went away and science is in its place.. Now OotS world is on the brink; the thinking with four elements still exists, but it's changing; they speak of ideal gases and, well, titanium elementals. Will Vaarsuvius achieve complete and total ultimate arcane power before the change is complete? Or does that power, in fact, actually mean he's going to become a some kind of super scientist?! Time will tell. Renaissance is on the doorstep.

A humaniora/philosophical view was clearly needed in this discussion! That's all for me, go on scientists. (turns away and covers his humanistic ears) :smallyuk:

[harodotus]

Does not anyone remember the old adage from High School Science class?


Titanium is the Nymphomaniac Metal, heat it up and it combines with anything...

While i guess the answer may be with the above joke, my other thought is that there is a reason that mages don't use pure elements and science tricks and instead rely on such well founded magical classifications as earth, air, fire, and water.

If Science were the only way to solve this problem, then the Titanium Elemental would be rigid, unmoving and brittle.

-Harodotus

[Aesculap]

Mithril, anyone?

[Dectilon]

If you're going to make the poor thing explode anyways you might as well just chuck a bomb : P

How about a teflon elemental? It might not be as tough, hard, invulnerable or menacing in any way, but on the other hand you can't banish it because all spells just slide right off it : )

Even if you could contain enough anti-matter to make an elemental, I wouldn't want to be in the same solar system when you let that thing lose : ) If it's anywhere near as large as that elemental, imagine the size of the explosion ~~

As for using a titanium elemental, what's the point? I'd rather make a lead elemental or something. As heavy as it freakin' gets (my chemistry skills are lacking, so I can't remember which metal has the highest density), because momentum is everything : )

[Nightwing]

You could KICK the elemental.

[Ave]

One minor problem: You unleash that upon yourself. Antimatter blows up when it comes into contact with matter, and there's plenty of that. Air molecules, for starters. After that, the ground its standing on. Maybe anyone unfortunate enough to wander within range. Works for if you're surrounded and suicidal, but not too good from a (slightly) fortified city with the enemy far away.

And again, the radiation would end up being the weapon in this case, as all the antimatter would be used up quickly. I don't think the undead would care about that.

Not with proper magic insulation before reaching target.

[Felius]

With that much antimateer, unless the target is in another plane, it doesn't matter. You will be in range of the explosion.

And Dectilon, Lead isn't the heaviests. If you can put your hands on a gold or platinum elemental, or even a depleted uranium elemental, now you are on one of the heaviests.

[Indon]

Personally, I'd just field a Carbon elemental. Earth elemental (with the Graphite subtype, no less) in its' normal form, but can transform to a different crystalline structure as a swift action!

And before you know it, you're fighting a diamond elemental. DR 10/Adamantine at least, energy resistance to just about everything but sonic.

Against a Compoundal, though, I would unleash an Electrolysis Reactional. It'd deal increased damage against Compoundals, methinks.

[Swordguy]

Speaking of antimatter, it does in fact...er...matter...what kind of anti-element you create. The yield of the explosion will be based on how many grams of antimatter you have, and most spells in the D&D world work by summoning a specific volume of stuff. Therefore, depending on what type of anti-element you summon, the density (and therefore the number of grams) of AM will be different.

BTW, in terms of explosive radii: The stereotypical 50th level caster summoning anti-osmium to the limit of his ability (50 cu ft) will create a blast radius of roughly HALF AN AU (somewhere in the 43 million mile range).

I would rule that anyone near the blast center does in fact NOT get a reflex save. :wink:

[BisectedBrioche]

A few comments;


Francium may be an alkaline metal, in theory but its highly unstable so only a few atoms exist at any given time.

A thermite reaction requires Iron (IV) oxide (AKA rust), a more reactive metal (usually aluminium as it can melt at the right temperature without boiling) and plenty of energy to start things off (usually in the form of a magneisium "fuse"). Just powdered aluminium and iron won't cut it.

If anyone suggests the electrolysis of water elementals I swear I'll....

Antimatter will generate an explosion equal to the energy stored in twice its mass (the mass of the anti-matter plus what it reacts with). The equasion E=mc^2 shows that this would be calculated thus;

[mass in kg] x [speed of light in a vacuum squared*]

*299,792,458 m/s

A collosal sized antimatter elemental will simply destroy the whole battlefield and take most of the continent with it. That really defeats the object of capturing a city.

[kire]

Try using a contingency spell or something to summon a small anti-matter (or anti-osmium, anti-lead, anti-water, anti-whatever) elemental, set the condition three rounds from casting, then Teleport without error a few times. For three lower level spells you get more destruction than any delayed blast fireball or meteor swarm.

[Swordguy]

A few comments;

A collosal sized antimatter elemental will simply destroy the whole battlefield and take most of the continent with it. That really defeats the object of capturing a city.



17 cubic feet of osmium AM is enough to take out the planet, and a colossal-sized AM elemental would be FAR more than that. The type (density) of AM you summon is the really important part, because it will determine the number of instances of an 43kt detonation.

[Copacetic]

...actually, that would just burn a big hole straight down into the ground.

Yeah duh! Thats what we want! When Thermite starts burning the hole in the ground, It burns enemies wit it. Nifty huh?

[Grizzt]

The Azure City mages (TM) just need to summon 1 Techician Elemental to turn the Tiatanium ones into some great battle !


Now excuse me i have to commint honorable seppuku

[bdh5533]

The monster manual said the metal doesn't have to be iron or steel for a rust monster to corrode it. The manual said that a rust monster can heavily tarnish, and thus destroy, gold and silver and other metals.

And an elemental of "anti-element stuff" would destroy itself the instant you summon it!

wow tarnishing gold is quite a feat! seeing as how gold doesn't tanish...
so ya rust monsters would definately go crazy on the Ti golems... and then they would go for the azure city guard's armor.. and then both side's weapons..

But about two oxygen elementals, mr OP, you forgot, titanium only forms a skin of TI O2, oxygen doesn't saturate through the TI O2 layer so you would need to heat -> corrode -> scrape off the TI O2 layer -> repeat quite a few times.

also titanium burns at 1472 degrees F so good luck with burning it. you can get it to explode given a lot of heat, but for a monster that size that's a lot and a lot of heat.

so yes best mundane idea would be to get out your well crafted hardened steel axes and start chopping away at it's limbs. titanium is pretty hard so you are going to destroy a lot of axes in the process.

the best magical option is of course to banish the thing back to the elemental plane.

[BisectedBrioche]

In theory titanium, being a similarly reactive metal, can be substituted for aluminium in a thermite reaction, so maybe....

[SteveMB]

Antimatter will generate an explosion equal to the energy stored in twice its mass (the mass of the anti-matter plus what it reacts with). The equasion E=mc^2 shows that this would be calculated thus;

[mass in kg] x [speed of light in a vacuum squared*]

*299,792,458 m/s

A collosal sized antimatter elemental will simply destroy the whole battlefield and take most of the continent with it. That really defeats the object of capturing a city.
Just to provide some scale, annihilating 1 kg of mass produces about 9 * 10^16 joules of energy. A ton of TNT produces 4 * 10^9 joules. Ergo, each kg of mass annihilated translates to 22.5 megatons of yield.

(Don't forget that the amount of mass annihilated is twice the mass of the antimatter -- conjuring up a kilogram of antimatter would produce a 45 MT blast, in the range of the biggest H-bomb tests ever conducted in the real world.)

[Renegade Paladin]

Titanium is a metal. It's fireproof.
Anyway, all you do is summon a SUPER water elemental or something. Since Titanium is a metal, its vulnerable to corrosion. OOH! or use a rust monster or 12!
1.) Toss elemental sodium (a metal) into water sometime. Come back and tell me what happens, assuming you survive the resulting fire. Oh wait...

2.) Rust is iron oxide. Titanium is not iron, so it cannot form iron oxide with oxygen.

Basic chemistry.

[J_Muller]

Yeah duh! Thats what we want! When Thermite starts burning the hole in the ground, It burns enemies wit it. Nifty huh?

Yeah, but you'd get the same real effect for less effort by dropping a maxed fireball or two on your target, since the thermite will only burn what's directly under it when it hits.

[Tokiko Mima]

Getting Rid of the Titanium Elemental?

This is very easy. Summon a couple of rust monsters. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rustMonster.htm) Titanium elementals might not rust naturally, but they do rust in big 10' cube sections under a rust attack. And if they are anything at all like Earth Elementals, their Reflex saves are terrible. :)

Plus, most of Azure city's attackers are archers, which field very little metal while I'm sure the hobgoblins have a ton of metal on them. Fun times!

[13_CBS]

This is very easy. Summon a couple of rust monsters. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rustMonster.htm) Titanium elementals might not rust naturally, but they do rust in big 10' cube sections under a rust attack. And if they are anything at all like Earth Elementals, their Reflex saves are terrible. :)

Plus, most of Azure city's attackers are archers, which field very little metal while I'm sure the hobgoblins have a ton of metal on them. Fun times!

Eh...you forget that the archers are wearing armor (or at least helmets) and that the infantry down below are laden with armor...

No one finds helium-ized squeaky hobgobs amusing? :smallfrown:

[Tolkien_Freak]

Titanium doesn't 'rust' in the specific sense. It oxidizes. Titanium and oxygen make TiO2. Not Fe203. That's exactly what Renegade Paladin said. A rust monster would just be throwing Fe203 at it anyway.

Someone else mentioned burning it with nitrogen, and I would second both that notion and the notion of adding oxygen to it to make a useless white powder.

EDIT: Almost useless. It is a useful ingrediant in toothpaste, white paint and sunscreen.

[Jiktori]

'Ignore it until it goes away.'

[Lord of the Helms]

The problem is that there's really no way to contain anti-matter, as others have said.


Well, you could summon IONIZED Antimatter, and then surround it with an magnetic field energetical to shield it off :smalltongue:


1.) Toss elemental sodium (a metal) into water sometime. Come back and tell me what happens, assuming you survive the resulting fire. Oh wait...



Our Chem teacher did that. Tossed a Cubic Centimeter of Sodium into 300ml of water. It exploded, the water evaporated almost entirely, and the marks of the sodium blown to the ceiling were still there for years to come.

He did like to point out that had the reaction not been surrounded by glass walls, the first two or three rows of us would've gotten their faces burnt off by the resulting NaOH fog...

[Tolkien_Freak]

Well, you could summon IONIZED Antimatter, and then surround it with an magnetic field energetical to shield it off :smalltongue:

...

He did like to point out that had the reaction not been surrounded by glass walls, the first two or three rows of us would've gotten their faces burnt off by the resulting NaOH fog...

1. What is the point of having an antimatter elemental ANYWAY, if it will detonate half the solar system when the magnetic field is eliminated?

2. Ooooh, lye! Fun!

[Assassinfox]

... or just cast Dismissal.

I was right! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :smallcool:

[13_CBS]

Well, whaddya know. Occam's Razor prevails once more.

[Tilian]

Well, whaddya know. Occam's Razor prevails once more.

For three out of five at least. The rest is possibly going to be a square-peg-in-circular-hole affair.

[Tokiko Mima]

Titanium doesn't 'rust' in the specific sense. It oxidizes. Titanium and oxygen make TiO2. Not Fe203. That's exactly what Renegade Paladin said. A rust monster would just be throwing Fe203 at it anyway.

Someone else mentioned burning it with nitrogen, and I would second both that notion and the notion of adding oxygen to it to make a useless white powder.

EDIT: Almost useless. It is a useful ingrediant in toothpaste, white paint and sunscreen.

A rust monsters rust ability rusts ANY metal; even gold. It neatly bypass all known laws of chemistry, and it exists in the OotS world. And if the Titanium Elementals tried to attack the rust monsters before they were slain, they only get one successful attack before the elemental is toast, corroded instantly to uselessness. It's a perfect counter to solid metal monsters of all kinds.

[rgoodfellow]

I wonder if the fact that we have so many chem-brains reading this comic shines some light into a hidden connection between role-playing and chemistry 101.

[Tolkien_Freak]

A rust monsters rust ability rusts ANY metal; even gold. It neatly bypass all known laws of chemistry, and it exists in the OotS world. And if the Titanium Elementals tried to attack the rust monsters before they were slain, they only get one successful attack before the elemental is toast, corroded instantly to uselessness. It's a perfect counter to solid metal monsters of all kinds.

I've never actually played D&D, so I didn't know that.

All this chemical nonsense (sensical nonsense) to be defeated by a 'dismissal' spell! Almost dissapointing that V wasn't clever enough to think up something more creative.

[xyzchyx]

2 words.

Rust Monster.

What's that, you say? Titanium doesn't rust?

Doesn't matter. Read the monster description. *ANY* metal is affected. Non magical weapons and armor don't even get a saving throw.

I love fantasy... it breaks all the rules.

[Demented]

In DnD, the distinction between metals is pretty much a matter of preference up until someone bothers to stat out a special material. Identifying whether a sword is bronze or steel is just a matter of whether you want a glimmering orange or shiny white weapon. There is no chemical difference up until your DM says there is.

DnD doesn't follow the "laws of physics", it has its very arbitrary own.

[The Extinguisher]

Which is why I'm pressing for my DM to actually do something based on actual science.

It shouldn't be hard. He's a science nerd as well. And I reserve the right to call us science nerds.

[Tokiko Mima]

All this chemical nonsense (sensical nonsense) to be defeated by a 'dismissal' spell! Almost dissapointing that V wasn't clever enough to think up something more creative.

I know.. I was hoping for the rust monsters, personally. They have an ironic edge. Using them would mean that if Redcloak had fielded normal Earth Elementals instead, the rust monsters would have been helpless before their assault. But "paper beats rock" is good enough, I guess. :smallsmile:

[Professor Tanhauser]

Is titanium a valuable metal in D&D?

Sereiously, if it has a high enough commercial value, then how to get rid of the titanium elementals is easy.

Just tell Halley they're worth beauceau bucks and let her steal them!

[Tokiko Mima]

Is titanium a valuable metal in D&D?

Sereiously, if it has a high enough commercial value, then how to get rid of the titanium elementals is easy.

Just tell Halley they're worth beauceau bucks and let her steal them!

Titanium is an interesting metal. It's actually incredibly common on planet Earth, but the reason it's not used much is it's difficult to work with. I'm sure someone more geeky in chemistry than I could tell you more, but titanium requires extreme temperatures to forge properly and it's difficult to extract from it's preferred form.

I imagine it would actually be pretty valuable in OotS world if it was in it's pure form. It's as strong as steel but much lighter, and good for a lot of things.

[Renegade Paladin]

Titanium is an interesting metal. It's actually incredibly common on planet Earth, but the reason it's not used much is it's difficult to work with. I'm sure someone more geeky in chemistry than I could tell you more, but titanium requires extreme temperatures to forge properly and it's difficult to extract from it's preferred form.

I imagine it would actually be pretty valuable in OotS world if it was in it's pure form. It's as strong as steel but much lighter, and good for a lot of things.
In other words, it's mithril/mithral. Which is how I explain the prevalence of that metal in fantasy if I'm pressed to do so. :smalltongue:

[Nightwing]

I have a grate idea! V could cast dispel!

[Kreistor]

Titanium is an interesting metal. It's actually incredibly common on planet Earth, but the reason it's not used much is it's difficult to work with. I'm sure someone more geeky in chemistry than I could tell you more, but titanium requires extreme temperatures to forge properly and it's difficult to extract from it's preferred form.

All (Or almost all) titanium on earth is found naturally only as Titanium Oxide. Separating the oxygen out is indeed an expensive process, but a recent British invention improved the efficiency (a decade or so ago). That's why we have a lot more titanium around these days. It's still not a cheap process, but it's cheap enough that titanium can appear in golf clubs and other sporting equipment.

The titanium for the SR71 was procured secretly from, guess where...., Russia because no one else was making it. They used a bunch of dummy corporations to procure it in small amounts.


In other words, it's mithril/mithral.

No, actually. It's too soft. Ti is harder than steel by mass, but it's lighter than steel by density, so it makes good support beams and things where volume doesn't matter, but where it does (like weapons and armour), it's a much poorer choice. Steel cuts through titanium, whereas mithral is harder than steel (Mithral hardness 15 vs. Steel 10). When two metals collide, it's the hardness vs. volume that matters, not hardness vs. mass. Titanium wouldn't hold an edge, either.

[Vonriel]

Yes, but steel in a world such as OotS is hard to procure, at least when you start talking about high quality steel. While I'm not clear on the process, I know it involves heating up iron to a very high temperature, then (and this is where my knowledge gets fuzzy) forcing another element to get trapped inside the now expanded iron molecules. When the metal cools, the iron molecules trap in the other element. Again, that's just my fuzzy knowledge on the subject, I'm sure somewhere out there there's someone else better equipped to talk about it. My point, though, is that titanium may be easier/cheaper for a world like OotS to craft into a weapon than to make high-quality steel.

[J_Muller]

Actually, magic would probably help a lot if you were going to build a blast furnace...

[Vonriel]

Yeah, but since when did we start expecting magic to take a hand in things? Seriously.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Actually my idea of titamium being valuable was just a setup for a joke I hoped people would get: Hally, hearing titanium is worth some real bucks, pulls out a custom, Halley sized bag of holding, climbs up a parapet, leaps down on one of the titanium elementals with the custom bag of holding, and slides down it, pulling the open front, which stretches to any size, down over it while it screams "Help! Help!" until she has the whole thing in a convenient holding bag.

[harodotus]

My other thought is that there is a reason that mages don't use pure elements and science tricks and instead rely on such well founded magical classifications as earth, air, fire, and water.


I just knew that a snarky comment based on this was incoming...

/bows:smalltongue:

[Kreistor]

Yes, but steel in a world such as OotS is hard to procure, at least when you start talking about high quality steel. While I'm not clear on the process, I know it involves heating up iron to a very high temperature,

Carbon. Steel is Iron and a very low percentage of carbon.

Though modern techniques may use a high temperature, more ancient techniques did not. Carbon oxidizes into carbon dioxide in the presence of lots of oxygen and heat, so too high a temperature burns teh carbon before it enters the iron. Smiths train to heat the steel as seldom as possible because that burns the carbon out of the sttel turning into softer iron. Some older techniques heated the iron to lower temperatures allowing the carbon to leech in slowly. High temps are not mandatory, but are part of some techniques.

[Wraithy]

hmmmm.....................................

superawsomespecialplan stage 1: break Belkar's bones
superawsomespecialplan stage 2: surgically fix titanium elemental to his bones
superawsomespecialplan stage 3: allow Belkar to heal
superawsomespecialplan stage 4: send Belkar on a rampage across the enemy ranks.

then again he could still be beaten to a pulp in the squishy bits.
superawsomespecialplan: failed

alternatively we could send a francium elemental against it.



It's rainin----------

[AyuVince]

And for all you guy ragging me about saying that metals are "fireproof": You have a mage shoot a fireball at the elemental. Does it catch fire? No. An animated tree would, but not a metal elemental!
So there! :smalltongue:

<rules lawyer>Fireballs don't set things on fire, as clearly stated in the spell description. Create Flame sets things on fire.</rules lawyer>

[BisectedBrioche]

alternatively we could send a francium elemental against it. [QUOTE]

How many times do I have to say this;

There is only ever a few atoms of Francium in existence at any given time, they are created in labs and only exist for a fraction of a second before decaying.

[QUOTE=Kreistor;2174911]Carbon. Steel is Iron and a very low percentage of carbon.

Though modern techniques may use a high temperature, more ancient techniques did not. Carbon oxidizes into carbon dioxide in the presence of lots of oxygen and heat, so too high a temperature burns teh carbon before it enters the iron. Smiths train to heat the steel as seldom as possible because that burns the carbon out of the sttel turning into softer iron. Some older techniques heated the iron to lower temperatures allowing the carbon to leech in slowly. High temps are not mandatory, but are part of some techniques.

Its also worth noting that adding carbon made the metal more brittle. So adding to much was avoided. Eventually techniques were developed to have a hard outside and a springy inside (thus making a blade which stayed sharp but wouldn't shatter easily).

Oh, and stainless steel also contains chromium.

[Finwe]

[quote=Wraithy;2175406]
There is only ever a few atoms of Francium in existence at any given time, they are created in labs and only exist for a fraction of a second before decaying.


That's not exactly correct. Though Francium is indeed almost exclusively found in particle accelerators, it is found in small amounts in Thorium and Uranium. Also, Francium 223 has a half life of over 20 minutes.





Well, you could summon IONIZED Antimatter, and then surround it with an magnetic field energetical to shield it off :smalltongue:



Our Chem teacher did that. Tossed a Cubic Centimeter of Sodium into 300ml of water. It exploded, the water evaporated almost entirely, and the marks of the sodium blown to the ceiling were still there for years to come.

He did like to point out that had the reaction not been surrounded by glass walls, the first two or three rows of us would've gotten their faces burnt off by the resulting NaOH fog...


Are you sure he tossed sodium into the water? Because sodium definitely does not explode - it just burns really bright. Perhaps it was something more alkaline?

[BisectedBrioche]

Are you sure he tossed sodium into the water? Because sodium definitely does not explode - it just burns really bright. Perhaps it was something more alkaline?

From what I recall sodium won't ignite unless its held in place. Potassium ignites and caesium will sink and produce enough hydrogen to explode. Francium has never existed in sufficient quantities (or for long enough for that matter) to be dropped into water.

[Renegade Paladin]

Sodium ignites just fine; it moves all over the surface of the water while burning.

[Fade]

Until you get a large piece and submerge it... It actually does explode. (fyi, an explosion is caused by something combusting quickly enough to make force)

[Aurric]

How about some votes for Lithium Aluminum Hydride elementals? The spontaneous pyrophoric reaction should be JUST slow enough to get them over the army, and then they burst into violent flame. I mean, why not?

Especially considering that any attempts to put them out via water would just make them burn more violently.

[moleytov]

Can we get some Singlet Oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singlet_oxygen) breathing Elementals? For those who don't know (and isn't pointed out cearly on wiki) is that is increadibly harmful to organic matter. Your body destroys it very, very quickly. It only takes (comparitively) few molecules to kill you.

yay for Uni Chemistry and MO theory.