Death from above! (Build advise needed)

[Swaoeaeieu]

Hi Playground!
I found this old Red raiding Hood thread (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1659301) and wanted to make something like that as a back up character. But since i don't nearly have the system mastery as you lovely folkes i was looking for some feedback.

The idea was to make a melee fighter with a very high movement. Dropping or jumping to trigger battlejump or tiger claw manouvers to rain death from above!
The image comes from the dragoon type fighter from final fantasy (just as the old thread).
I wanted to make a melee powerhouse that is really fun to play.
Here is what i have so far:


Human Martial rogue1/Cleric 1/Psychic warrior 2/warblade 5/blade dancer 7/ warblade +4
Level 1 feats: Battle jump, Expeditious Dodge, Mobility and lose trap sense for spell sense
Level 2: Cleric with Time domain spontanious casting, travel devotion
Level 3: Spring attack, Up the Walls
Level 4: Power attack
Level 5: Warblade 1 with initiator level 3
Level 6: Leap attack
Level 7:
Level 8:
Level 9: Improved Bullrush Combat reflexes
Level 10:
Level 11:
Level 12: Shock trooper
Level 13:
Level 14:
Level 15: Power lunge
Level 16:


Human as a race is not ideal, but core only races in this campaign. Other material is allowed, but not for races.

My questions to the playground:
1) Do i go 7 straight level Blade dancer, or take a level of warblade in between to get some more manouvers?
2) I was planning on using a Glaive. Any advice on using a reach weapon like that?
3) Do you know of any feats that complement this build?
4) What manouvers should i take. I know tiger claw has some cool jump related ones. But apart from that i lack inspiration.
5) any other advice or comments?


Thanks in advance playground!

[KingSmitty]

you should look into taking warblade at a higher level to take advantage of being able to learn the higher maneuvers, you cant retrain maneuvers until level 4 and every even warblade level afterwards

the best maneuver for you would be sudden leap: swift action jump, leaves you open to use your move action for something else. though u can always try to qualify for elder mountain hammer or soaring raptor strike for 6d6 extra dmg

for a stance, Leaping Dragon Stance gives you a +10 foot bonus to jump checks

also look into the Battle Jump feat, to double damage when u jump to a height at least 5ft above your opponent, can be hard to pull off

with Leaping dragon and a good running charge/leap attack/battle jump....it gets ugly.

also if you go rogue 2, it qualifies you to take Thief Acrobat, which gives some nifty class abilities, one being kip up the ability to stand as an free action, and my personal favorite is the ability to take 10 on checks that would otherwise screw you over in combat, like balance,

also you don't take the -5 penalty to doing things at full speed like balance or climb.

one last thing to check out, berserk from deities and demigods for one level, gives u an ability like frenzy but better imo, +6 str/con for 3+con rounds

the will save can be tough, 15+#rounds in fury but meh you wanna be a powerhouse

[Swaoeaeieu]

Thanks kingsmitty,

I like the manouvers, ill put them on my 'for consideration' list.
I already have battle jump as a feat. It started the whole build :)
Not sure about more rogue levels. It would eat up some of my initiator levels...
And if i get a level of berserker my group might start throwing things for having too many different class features :P

[KingSmitty]

Thanks kingsmitty,

I like the manouvers, ill put them on my 'for consideration' list.
I already have battle jump as a feat. It started the whole build :)
Not sure about more rogue levels. It would eat up some of my initiator levels...
And if i get a level of berserker my group might start throwing things for having too many different class features :P

looking over it again i totally missed battle jump on that list, and if you're a berserker you get a great str increase so throw heavier things at them and more con so you can take the hits without penalty. though they'd probably throw sharp things once the enemy is dead and you have no choice but to attack them!

you can never have too many features! its tough to be useful by multiclassing so much, melee is one of the only ways imo that can get away with it without losing too much except for BAB

[Darrin]

Battle Jump may be a sore spot with some DMs, as the text isn't all that clear on how it should work. Some DMs may rule that it can't be used unless you're jumping off a ledge, or you can't use it with a horizontal/vertical jump because it involves changing directions and that isn't allowed on a charge attack. Some DMs may not allow you to turn a move action into a full-round charge action. And this doesn't even get into whether or not you can qualify for it just by being from the Taer region. So just make sure you and the DM are on the same page.

If your DM doesn't allow Battle Jump, then you might be able to use Roof-Jumper (Cityscape) instead.



1) Do i go 7 straight level Blade dancer, or take a level of warblade in between to get some more manouvers?


Depends on if you need to grab a particular maneuver or stance. If you already have Iron Heart Surge/White Raven Tactics, then it might be better to put off your Warblade maneuvers until later when your IL is higher, and thus grab higher level maneuvers. For example, I'd probably want to grab Leaping Dragon Stance ASAP, but it looks like you can get that at Warblade 4 (IL = 6.0).



2) I was planning on using a Glaive. Any advice on using a reach weapon like that?


The guisarme is usually preferred over the glaive, as you can make trip attacks with the guisarme. Glaive has slightly better average damage: 5.5 instead of 5.0. Make sure you put some armor spikes on your armor, so you can threaten adjacent and have a second weapon available for Tiger Claw maneuvers. I like Netcutter Spikes (Races of the Wild): they work just like armor spikes, but you also get a +4 circumstance bonus on any Str or Escape Artist checks to get out of an net/web/entangle effect.



3) Do you know of any feats that complement this build?


Elusive Target is sort of the apology for having to take Dodge/Mobility, although I'm not sure it helps what you're trying to do with this build. Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz (PHBII) are another sort of apology for Spring Attack, but I don't see how they work with Battle Jump (unless you're getting the hustle power in there somewhere... Mantled Psychic Warrior with Freedom mantle, maybe?).



4) What manouvers should i take. I know tiger claw has some cool jump related ones. But apart from that i lack inspiration.


Start with Moment of Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, and Sudden Leap. I usually start with Punishing Stance as my first stance, but Leading the Charge might work better here for Battle Jump.

After that, I'd probably grab Mountain Hammer, Wall of Blades, Iron Heart Surge, and White Raven Tactics. At War Blade 4, grab Leaping Dragon Stance.

You'll want to ask the DM if he allows White Raven Tactics to be used on yourself (per the PHB glossary, you count as your own ally). Even if he doesn't allow this, being able to give someone else in the party an extra turn is still a game-changer.



5) any other advice or comments?


Consider Cloistered Cleric 1 to pick up the Knowledge Devotion. You probably won't get enough skill points to really get the most out of it, but a free action for +1 damage is still a little extra bit of damage.

I'm not sure Battle Dancer adds all that much to this build. I think I might prefer 7 levels of Warblade instead.

I don't see Pounce in there... Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1 usually goes hand-in-hand with Battle Jump. From there, anything that adds extra attacks is nice: TWF, Snap Kick, natural weapons, etc. Dungeon Crasher Fighter + Knockback is also loads of fun. You might want to check out my Thumpback (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16756072&postcount=44) build as an example.

[Shining Wrath]

Your Warblade Initiator level (per RAW) goes up by 1/2 for martial classes, not all classes. The only non-TOB class explicitly called out is Fighter. It would be a DM ruling whether any of your first 4 levels qualify, and I'd be dubious about all four were it my call, as they are 3/4 BAB classes. OK, so is Swordsage, but still, stretchy.

I'd take the full course of Blade Dancer before any Warblade if you're just building toward level 20.