PRCs: Requirements and loss if requirements

[thorr-kan]

I've found the page in CompWar detailing what happens if you lose requirements for a PRC. Paraphrased, you lose class features but keep BAB, HD, and save bonuses.

It doesn't say anything about skills.

Anybody familiar with a more recent version of this? CompArc and CompMage don't have an entry, and that's where I'd expect one.

[Asrrin]

Strictly RAW speaking, those rules only apply to the PrC's in complete warrior, as Complete Warrior is not the primary source of PrCs. the DMG is the Primary source, and makes no such claims.

RAI is murky, and people debate it back and forth, so ultimately it's up to your DM. It's compounded by the fact that many PrCs contain class features that break there own prerequisites, and thus according to Complete Warrior would exist in a state of both losing and gaining the class features in perpetuity.

[heavyfuel]

I don't it's clearly written anywhere if you keep these things.

The best example we have is for base classes that have alignment requirements you don't lose BAB, saves, HD or skill points, but may lose some or all class features.

Personally, I'd make them lose all class features but keeping these 4 things.

[Theomniadept]

It doesn't make sense to lose class features from no longer qualifying; by inherent class features, Dragon Disciple would automatically nullify itself and the final level of it would simply be 'Class Feature: Replace all Dragon Disciple levels with Commoner'. Plus there's disqualifications based on circumstance; Does the Dwarven Defender lose his abilities because he died and was Reincarnated as a Gnome? Plus there's things like Assassin; gotta be evil to enter, but is it really unfeasible to have good aligned assassins?

[Chronos]

Complete Arcane does actually have a similar rule. Note: Similar, not quite the same, so if you try to argue that the rule applies to all of the books, you have to decide which rule.

And for classes that disqualify themselves, an even better example is Ur-Priest, which disqualifies itself not on the last level, but on the very first.

Personally, I would rule that you need to meet the class's requirements every time you take a new level (except for cases like Ur-Priest where the class disqualifies itself), but that other than that, you keep all the abilities unless stated otherwise.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

It doesn't make sense to lose class features from no longer qualifying; by inherent class features, Dragon Disciple would automatically nullify itself and the final level of it would simply be 'Class Feature: Replace all Dragon Disciple levels with Commoner'. Plus there's disqualifications based on circumstance; Does the Dwarven Defender lose his abilities because he died and was Reincarnated as a Gnome? Plus there's things like Assassin; gotta be evil to enter, but is it really unfeasible to have good aligned assassins?

Well, for Assassin at least, there's a non-evil Assassin variant. And for DD, it's still better than Risen Martyr!

[Theomniadept]

Oh gods I forgot to mention Ur-Priest: you aren't allowed to cast divine magic, and it gives you divine magic. If not meeting prereqs after taking the PrC then Ur-Priest is a version of Commoner with prerequisites.

[Pan151]

RAW, losing the PRC due to losing requirements applies only to CW classes.

RAI, there is an Ex-class section for all classes that can potentially lose class features, which details exactly if, when and what features you lose. Be it base classes (Paladin, Barbarian, etc) or PrCs (Grey Guard etc). For PrCs that lack that section losing a prerequisite means that you simply can't take any further levels in the class until you regain the prerequisite, just like you can take no more levels of monk if you become non-lawful, but you otherwise retain all class features.

[Bakkan]

For PrCs that lack that section losing a prerequisite means that you simply can't take any further levels in the class until you regain the prerequisite, just like you can take no more levels of monk if you become non-lawful, but you otherwise retain all class features.

This can't reasonably be the case since it would disqualify anyone from taking more than one level of Ur-Priest. Ur-Priest only works if the prerequisites are only checked when taking the very first level.

[Pan151]

This can't reasonably be the case since it would disqualify anyone from taking more than one level of Ur-Priest. Ur-Priest only works if the prerequisites are only checked when taking the very first level.

No, having access to divine magic does not disqualify you from Ur-Priest, it simply means you have to forsake it before you can take the level.

In case of taking level 2 of Ur-Priest, for example, (and even if we ignore the blindingly obvious RAI that Ur-Priest magic itself does not count) RAW still allows you to forsake the magic of Ur-Priest lv1, take the next level and regain it as part of Ur-Priest. Then repeat until done with the Prestige class.

[IAmTehDave]

No, having access to divine magic does not disqualify you from Ur-Priest, it simply means you have to forsake it before you can take the level.

In case of taking level 2 of Ur-Priest, for example, (and even if we ignore the blindingly obvious RAI that Ur-Priest magic itself does not count) RAW still allows you to forsake the magic of Ur-Priest lv1, take the next level and regain it as part of Ur-Priest. Then repeat until done with the Prestige class.

I can imagine it now:
"I need to advance my Godpower Stealing, but I can't do that while I'm currently doing it. Hmm. FINE! ^@#* IT! I GIVE UP ON THIS BULL#@%$!" *ding* "Oh look, I'm better at Godpower Stealing. Imagine that..."

[Pan151]

I can imagine it now:
"I need to advance my Godpower Stealing, but I can't do that while I'm currently doing it. Hmm. FINE! ^@#* IT! I GIVE UP ON THIS BULL#@%$!" *ding* "Oh look, I'm better at Godpower Stealing. Imagine that..."

RAW: Not even once!

[atemu1234]

I always houseruled that you can no longer take levels in a PRC if you no longer meet the requirements for it, but lose none of the features. It works so far.