Duskblade dips(3.5)

[sambouchah]

My current Character in a campaign(Chaos Gnome Illusionist 1) will be dying due to a prank war started with the Chaos Gnome Sorcerer in the party. I know metagame(and therefore can't prevent in game) that I will be drinking a cup of tea laced with liquid flames and taking 2d6 damage(because I am ingesting it. With only 3 HP I feel like chances are I will die).

So I wanted to play a Duskblade, I know generally how to build one but I can't take my first level in Duskblade(DM says we must have one level in a core or EPH class before expanding). So my question is, what PHB/EPH class should I take for my first level? I was thinking Rogue or maybe Psionic for Intelligence synergy.

I was thinking Illumian or Human for race(needing the extra skill point from human or Mutliclass sigils). If you have a better suggestion I'm all ears!

My scores are 18, 12, 16, 10, 15, 14. Allocation(assuming Human/Illuminant) is:

Strength: 18
Dexterity: 14
Constution: 16
Intelligence: 15
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 10

Feats and Flaws(looking for a trait if you all can suggest one)
(Flaw 1) Free Spirited(x2 carry weight)
(Flaw 2) Pathetic(-2 Charisma)
(F1) Power Attack
(F2) Nymph's Kiss
(R, assuming human) Knowledge Devotion
(Lv 1) ??

So suggestion for first class level, my level one feat, and Human or Illuminant?
Big thanks to anyone who can help me out, I really appreciate it!

, Sam

[Rebel7284]

Conjurer for abrupt jaunt?

Cleric for two domains/devotion feats?

Barbarian for pounce?

[heavyfuel]

For trait, get Quick. It's easily the best trait there is.

Barbarian for pounce is what makes Duskblades viable from lvs 14 and on.

Conjurer for Abrupt Jaunt is decent, but given your Int it's only 2/day, so not THAT good. The best part of dipping Conjurer is probably going to be access to the Profession skill, which you can eventually use to get into Fatespinner later in the game (Duskblade really loses its charm after 15 class levels

If out of core ACFs aren't good, then a lv in Fighter for the Bonus Feat, or in Rogue for a bunchload of skill points isn't the end of the world.

[sambouchah]

I think I'll be going Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce.

What prestige classes should I try and enter? You said something about Fatespinner, but I'm not sure what else to go into.

[Rebel7284]

Abjurant Champion is a common prestige class to enter due to the free prereqs and relevant class features.

[Fax Celestis]

Barbarian for pounce is what makes Duskblades viable from lvs 14 and on.

Not sure why you think that.


At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.

The spell goes off once per person you hit, not once per hit. Duskblade 13 is stupidly overrated.

I would go with cleric so you can use cleric items without UMD and pick up two domains. Cloistered Cleric, if you can, and trade away Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion (since your INT should be high anyway).

[IAmTehDave]

If you go Illumian, you can use your strength to determine Bonus Spells/day with the right rune combination. (Keep int high though, for Knowledge Devotion and save DCs.)

You cannot take Knowledge Devotion at level 1. It requires 5 ranks in a knowledge skill, which means you have to wait until level 3. Alternatively, you can take your first level as cloistered cleric, and trade the Travel and Knowledge domains for the Devotion feats. You can't cast 1st level spells without switching a point to wis, but you can freely use any cleric wands (probably underrated - restoration, for instance, can be a wand.) and your third domain can be something with a good bonus or character-level scaling. (Alternatively, another domain to trade away for the proper devotion feat)

Psion nets you a couple powers known, plus good will save. You can (slightly) abuse Practiced Manifester to get a better return from 1 level of Psion than the similar feat for spellcasters. (Expansion cast at ML 5 lets you spend 3 PP to get a 50 minute Enlarge Person, and you'll have 8 PP to throw around.) Also Psion gives you Psionic Focus, which can power a bunch of awesome feats. (Or let you take 15 on a Concentration check.)

Fighter nets you a bonus feat and 1 BaB, which might be helpful when choosing starting feats. If that BaB isn't important, then Psywar is better idea IMO.

Alternatively: Why the hell are you forced to take an SRD base class as part of any build you do? o.O

For PrCs: There's a couple that add spells to your spells known. After 13 Duskblade you wouldn't be that remiss just going a full caster PrC. You can qualify for Abjurant Champion with ease, and AbC 2 will let you automatically extend/quicken Resist Energy (Which might be useful for self-buffing at higher levels?) (nothing further in this class is helpful, unless you can prepare the Exalted version of Mage Armor, or use the +spell levels to increase your non-duskblade casting, and thus get your caster level of Wizard 1 to be = your BaB) There were a couple PrCs that are kind of awesome and flavorful that I was looking at for a Duskblade build myself:
Paragnostic Apostle (Complete Champion) (Varied effects, looked interesting)
Human Paragon (SRD) (Don't knock a bonus feat and an untyped +2 to a stat? Debatable if Illumian can qualify)
Wild Soul (Complete Champion) (Lose 1 caster level, get a bunch of really nifty fey-themed abilities and free spells known. Seelie path lets you get Baleful Polymorph, for instance. Unseelie gets Bestow Curse, for another. The summon lists are nifty, and freely usable 3/day)
Telflammar Shadowlord (Unapproachable East) - Requires 2d6 sneak attack, 4 feats, 20 ranks in cross-class skills, and a DM who isn't paying attention. Upside: Take an infinite number of attacks in a turn, each with the ability to move your target up to 45 feet away. (notes: You can be the target of your own attack. You can replace a standard attack with a touch attack that does 0 damage. Arcane Channeling does not require the attack to deal damage, just requires that the attack hit.) (Congratulations, you probably just pissed off the goddess of Magic, and ripped a hole in the Veil.)

Also, re the reading that a full attack channel can only affect each target once: There's really no reason to read it that way. If it was that restrictive, it'd say "Each target can only be affected once by any spell cast in this manner". It doesn't. Ergo: Full attack Vampiric Touch on one target is a go.

Pounce isn't strictly necessary, but you might want to consider a reach weapon and either armor spikes or quick draw and a secondary 2-hander. Alternatively, Spiked Chain.

[heavyfuel]

Abjurant Champion is a common prestige class to enter due to the free prereqs and relevant class features.

Abjurant Champion is only good if you are Exalted (for Luminous Armor) and if the DM allows you to get Shield with Extra Spell. If you have both of these things then yeah, it's freaking awesome. Although, if you can get Wizard spells with Extra Spell, i cannot recommend Wraithstrike enough.


Not sure why you think that.

The spell goes off once per person you hit, not once per hit. Duskblade 13 is stupidly overrated.

It's not overrated because that means you can use Arcane Channeling in a charge (if you have Pounce). That's an extra spell or 3 extra attacks per combat in a level where most combats only last 3~4 rounds.

Let's analyze, briefly, an average lv 16 Duskblade vs a Lv 15 Dusbkblade/ 1 Barbarian

16 DB uses his standard action to make a single attack (say, about 40 damage) with extra 8d6 damage from Vampiric Touch, and an extra 8d6+50% from his Bloodstone Weapon. That averages at 110 damage. If the single attack misses, you've wasted your turn and the spell (although you still have the Bloodstone weapon)

15/1 uses a charge with a full attack, makes 4 attacks (5 if he has haste) dealing an average of 101.25 damage if a single attack hits (this is with Vampiric Touch + Bloodstone weapon). If the first attack misses, you still can try 3 more times, so it's almost impossible to not hit at least once. For every extra attack that hits, you deal an additional 40 damage, attacks, mind you, that easier to hit due to his charge bonus.

And this isn't even taking Shadow Pounce cheese into account.

Sure, it's not the be-all and end-all of what a character can do, but it's still a very nice damage boost to the Duskblade

[malonkey1]

My current Character in a campaign(Chaos Gnome Illusionist 1) will be dying due to a prank war started with the Chaos Gnome Sorcerer in the party. I know metagame(and therefore can't prevent in game) that I will be drinking a cup of tea laced with liquid flames and taking 2d6 damage(because I am ingesting it. With only 3 HP I feel like chances are I will die).

Well, actually, if you have somebody to heal you, you'll probably live. Death occurs at -10 HP, and at most, you'll take 12 damage. 3-12=-9, meaning that if you stabilize quickly, you'll have time to heal naturally, otherwise, if you have lesser vigor active or a healer at the ready, you'll still be fine.

[Fax Celestis]

Abjurant Champion is only good if you are Exalted (for Luminous Armor) and if the DM allows you to get Shield with Extra Spell. If you have both of these things then yeah, it's freaking awesome. Although, if you can get Wizard spells with Extra Spell, i cannot recommend Wraithstrike enough.



It's not overrated because that means you can use Arcane Channeling in a charge (if you have Pounce). That's an extra spell or 3 extra attacks per combat in a level where most combats only last 3~4 rounds.

Let's analyze, briefly, an average lv 16 Duskblade vs a Lv 15 Dusbkblade/ 1 Barbarian

16 DB uses his standard action to make a single attack (say, about 40 damage) with extra 8d6 damage from Vampiric Touch, and an extra 8d6+50% from his Bloodstone Weapon. That averages at 110 damage. If the single attack misses, you've wasted your turn and the spell (although you still have the Bloodstone weapon)

15/1 uses a charge with a full attack, makes 4 attacks (5 if he has haste) dealing an average of 101.25 damage if a single attack hits (this is with Vampiric Touch + Bloodstone weapon). If the first attack misses, you still can try 3 more times, so it's almost impossible to not hit at least once. For every extra attack that hits, you deal an additional 40 damage, attacks, mind you, that easier to hit due to his charge bonus.

And this isn't even taking Shadow Pounce cheese into account.

Sure, it's not the be-all and end-all of what a character can do, but it's still a very nice damage boost to the Duskblade

Well, okay. It's good for the same reasons everyone likes pounce. I've just seen many people say that Duskblade 13 stacks a spell on every attack roll, inflicting the spell multiple times on one target, when it doesn't, and I thought you were going that direction.

[sambouchah]

What if I went Cloistered Cleric 1/DB 10/Sandshaper 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Human Paragon 3/X 3 on a Feral Human chassis? Pounce at level 4, strong melee stat increases, the hit to Int is off set by adding a few more points to it(DM says 25 pb, all stats start at ten and it's 1-1 point buy maxing out at 18).

[Urpriest]

What if I went Cloistered Cleric 1/DB 10/Sandshaper 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Human Paragon 3/X 3 on a Feral Human chassis? Pounce at level 4, strong melee stat increases, the hit to Int is off set by adding a few more points to it(DM says 25 pb, all stats start at ten and it's 1-1 point buy maxing out at 18).

Are you going to hit 2nd level before next game? If not, I don't see how you're starting as Feral if you're coming in at level 1.

Edit: Missed the Chaos Gnome in the OP, nevermind.

[sambouchah]

Also the reasoning behind level 1 in SRD is so that his world isn't automatically overcrowded. We came from the mainlands where it's SRD material, and now we've travelled to a new land with more diverse class population.

[Fax Celestis]

Feral doesn't work that way. It bases its effects off of your racial hit dice, not class levels.


Special Attacks:
A feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice, as shown on the table below. It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding to its monster Hit Dice, plus all those in previous rows. If the base creature possesses a duplicate ability, the feral creature uses whichever version of the ability is better.

[sambouchah]

Crap.. Any suggestions on Pounce without Barbarian?

[IAmTehDave]

Crap.. Any suggestions on Pounce without Barbarian?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?103358-3-X-Ways-to-get-Pounce-or-Free-Movement

[Rebel7284]

An interesting idea if you think the campaign may get into higher levels is:

Bard 1/Duskblade 9/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/x4

You lose the full attack channel, but get back sorcerer spellcasting on a gish chasis with gems like Otto's Irresistible Dance being channelable.

Your first feat pretty much has to be Able Learner to meet the skill requirements though.
Edit: and your charisma and dex would need to be swapped...

[heavyfuel]

Crap.. Any suggestions on Pounce without Barbarian?

1 level of (Cloistered) Cleric exchanging Travel Domain for Travel Devotion can give you "pseudo-pounce". Basically, you spend your swift action to move up to your speed. This, however, isn't really good for the Duskblade, as at higher levels you will be using almost every single swift action you have.


An interesting idea if you think the campaign may get into higher levels is:

Bard 1/Duskblade 9/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/x4

You lose the full attack channel, but get back sorcerer spellcasting on a gish chasis with gems like Otto's Irresistible Dance being channelable.

Your first feat pretty much has to be Able Learner to meet the skill requirements though.
Edit: and your charisma and dex would need to be swapped...

You also get some healing spells to channel. The imagery is kind of hilarious. The Duskblade with a whip for reach playing support in-combat healer.

[IAmTehDave]

You also get some healing spells to channel. The imagery is kind of hilarious. The Duskblade with a whip for reach playing support in-combat healer.

It'd be funnier for a DuskStorm Blade, IMO.

"I'M GOING TO THROW MY SWORD(s) AT YOU AND IT'LL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER!"

(Bloodstorm Blade. I'd rule it usable with Duskblade as a GM, but then again I'm a big fan of letting PCs be awesome.)

Actually, if you add a level of an Initiator class, (Warblade probably) you could go Jade Phoenix Mage. You end up losing 4 caster levels over the course of your career, but you'll never not have an interesting Standard Action available to you.

[heavyfuel]

it'd be funnier for a duskstorm blade, imo.

"i'm going to throw my sword(s) at you and it'll make you feel better!"

My god... I need to play this right now!

[gorfnab]

An interesting idea if you think the campaign may get into higher levels is:

Bard 1/Duskblade 9/Sublime Chord 1/Abjurant Champion 5/x4

You lose the full attack channel, but get back sorcerer spellcasting on a gish chasis with gems like Otto's Irresistible Dance being channelable.

Your first feat pretty much has to be Able Learner to meet the skill requirements though.
Edit: and your charisma and dex would need to be swapped...
If you don't mind losing 8th and 9th level spells slots...
Bard 1/ Duskblade 13/ Sublime Chord 1/ Abjurant Champion 5
Arcane Channel Full + Whip + Otto's Irresistible Dance + Whirlwind Attack = :smallbiggrin:

A level of Beguiler with the Versatile Spellcaster feat is an amusing dip for Duskblade.

Duskblade 13/Nar Demonbinder 2/Abjurant Champion 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286800-Merry-Gishmas!-19-BAB-9th-level-spells-and-full-attack-channeling) - An amusing Duskblade gish build.

[Rebel7284]

If you don't mind losing 8th and 9th level spells slots...
Bard 1/ Duskblade 13/ Sublime Chord 1/ Abjurant Champion 5
Arcane Channel Full + Whip + Otto's Irresistible Dance + Whirlwind Attack = :smallbiggrin:

A level of Beguiler with the Versatile Spellcaster feat is an amusing dip for Duskblade.

Sounds like my kind of party! :smallbiggrin:

[Jeff the Green]

Abjurant Champion is only good if you are Exalted (for Luminous Armor) and if the DM allows you to get Shield with Extra Spell. If you have both of these things then yeah, it's freaking awesome. Although, if you can get Wizard spells with Extra Spell, i cannot recommend Wraithstrike enough.

It only works on a prepared caster, though. Luminous armor is sanctified and not normally available to spontaneous casters like Duskblade.

[Urpriest]

It only works on a prepared caster, though. Luminous armor is sanctified and not normally available to spontaneous casters like Duskblade.

Yeah, you need Arcane Preparation to do it, so another feat tax.

[heavyfuel]

It only works on a prepared caster, though. Luminous armor is sanctified and not normally available to spontaneous casters like Duskblade.


Yeah, you need Arcane Preparation to do it, so another feat tax.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. Overall, I think Abjurant Champion subpar for DBs.

[Jeff the Green]

Yeah, you need Arcane Preparation to do it, so another feat tax.

And since you can only prepare 1/day, if it gets dispelled you're boned.

Duskblade itself can be a good dip. As Fax Celestis said, their full attack channel isn't as good as it seems, so Duskblade3/Wizard 17 or Duskblade 3/Archivist 17 are pretty good. Raumathari Battlemage is a good choice for a pseudo-Duskblade too.

[KerlanRayne]

If you don't go with Pounce you can focus on the single attack. One level in Psion gets you a bonus feat for Psionic Weapon, which you can use until you get Deep Impact for a touch attack.

[Fax Celestis]

Psion enough and you can take Obtain Psicrystal, then use solicit psicrystal to maintain concentration on an control body you manifest on yourself. How do you feel about INT to AC, damage, and attack?