[Dreamscarred Press] Psionics Augmented: Soulknife

[ErrantX]

Hey everyone!

Welcome to Psionics Augmented: Soulknife (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XZ7YUgvH7vgDqJvJs8vaQYCPV6K6wh8YAbW_ElFUHX4/edit?usp=sharing)! Within the pages of this book, you will find options and abilities to do more with your soulknife than ever before. The psionic potential of the soulknife is explored more deeply, and ever-more secret techniques can be found. Will your soulknife wield akashic powers, binding veils to their mindblade? Or perhaps your soulknife will learn the ways to manipulate a psicrystal into a weapon, or enhance mundane steel? Or perhaps…. they will tackle the secrets of the Void.


The Soulknife Augmented - This chapter brings new options to the soulknife class in the form of new blade skills and as new archetypes.
Feats and Traits - This chapter brings soulknife and mindblade using feats, multiclass feats for soulknives who dabble in the arts of other psionic classes, and traits for psionic characters.
Prestige Classes Augmented - This chapter provides soulknife specific alterations to existing prestige classes to better use them with the unique talents of the soulknife, as well as new prestige classes for highly specialized soulknives. Path of War and Path of War: Expanded may be necessary to use some of these prestige classes properly.
Psionic Powers and Items - Soulknife-specific psionic items as well as psionic powers that are unique to the gifted blade soulknives.


With Psionics Augmented: Soulknife (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XZ7YUgvH7vgDqJvJs8vaQYCPV6K6wh8YAbW_ElFUHX4/edit?usp=sharing) you will find a whole wealth of new options to make your soulknife and the idealized-blade of mental power that they wield into the weapon you’ve always wanted to wield in your Pathfinder games!


Let's have a discussion! 1, 2, 3, PLAYTEST.

-X

[Anlashok]

I really like the stuff I can do with mind daggers, changing the weapon on the fly between attacks is just a really interesting flavor angle for the class and highlights the nature of the weapon. So more stuff in that angle.

Fixes for some of the sketchier blade skills (like the really bad shield) and more nonstandard mind blades would be appreciated too.

[stack]

Probably have to go with a tech supplement, but covering the intersection of mimicking tech weapons would be good, if difficult to balance.

Other than that...not sure.

[Drelua]

I have no idea what I'd like to see in such a book, I just know that I'd like to see it. The Soulknife is already about my favourite Pathfinder class, and more options could only be an improvement.

[Slithery D]

I'd like to see something like the Dark Tempst PrC, but that works with the Mind Bolt and ranged attacks.

[MilesTiden]

Only one major thing: something that interacts with natural attacks. The only real way of doing that currently is through Deadly Fist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/deadly-fist) and Feral Combat Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat), however, that doesn't technically 'work', because of wording and such.

Something that mimics firearms would also be pretty cool, I think.

[Sayt]

I think a prestige class that advanced Soulknife and divine casting would be really cool, and maybe give it a unique blade skill converting some of the damage to divine damage, and potentially, gets benefits when it's blade is in the form of a deities favored weapon.

Another thing I've had is that, planning out a build for a Soul Archer, there were extremely sparse pickings after the Soulbolt had finished advancing Soul archer levels, so more ranged compatible blade skills.

An ACF that can't form a mind blade on it's own, but can use a weapon as a 'focus', and it can channel it's psionic energy into the weapon itself, functionally empowering the weapon. In exchange you get either bigger Psychic Strike dice, more Psychic Strike Dice, or the ability to use Psychic Strike more often.

[Fax Celestis]

Unique Gifted Blade powers. (Bestow blade, maybe? Cloud of knives mindblades?)

A Mind Daggers-centric throwing-based PrC or archetype.

Akashic crossover.

Gifted Blade Arcane Channeling equivalent.

A PrC that lets you form other stuff out of mindblade material, not just knives. (Sudden stalagmite mindblades? Sort of FFT-Holy Knight-y. Or natural weapons instead of mindblades.)

A mounted archetype. Mindlance. And with it, a cavalier hybrid PrC. Mount, psionic PLA?

Elemental mindblade Blade Talents.

[Milo v3]

Akashic crossover.

This, I mean Aegis has one. And an Akashic Aegis//Akashic Soulknife gestalt would probably be rather fun.

[ErrantX]

Guns don't surprise me. It's been brought up a lot before! How do people feel about multiclass feats or alt class features for some existing PrC's?

-X

[Fax Celestis]

PrC ACFs are neat design space.

How about racial paragon classes/archetypes with a soulknife focus?

Archetype that gives some aegis abilities.

Feats or archetype that let you share your blade with your psicrystal. Maybe fewer blade talents for an animal companion-esque psicrystal.

[malonkey1]

Hm. Well, fiddle-ee-dee. Akashic stuff has been mentioned...Maybe a Path-of-War-tinged something? Trading away blade talents for maneuvers, possibly?

Maybe have some kind of "Psyblade Hunter" Archetype or Prestige class that gives favored enemies and offers unique ways to counter or injure them with the Mind Blade?

[Stegyre]

I'll just triple-iterate the akashic theme, which is what I was thinking.

[Psyren]

I have a few requests:

- Racial archetypes: I think the soulknives of different cultures would approach the class differently. For example, I would expect Dwarven soulknifes to actually be "Soulhammers," possibly gaining some kind of bonus or free ability while the blade is in bludgeoning form, and a penalty while it is not (or while it is piercing, so as not to penalize axe forms.) Meanwhile, the elven soulknife archetype would be able to do something cool, like switch between rapier and bow forms in the middle of a full attack.

- More bladeskills: In particular, this would let soulknives pick up some of the cool new tricks that have been introduced to PF since UPsi was released, like panache and dares.

- More weapon properties. There have been a bunch of new ones since UPsi was released, like Answering, Brawling (would be fantastic for the Deadly Fist) and Distracting. (Include a sidebar stating that Distracting affects psionics as well as magic when transparency is in use.)

I also want another soulknife that can get Agile besides Nimble Blade. That could be a racial archetype, or it could just be added to the regular ability list.

[Sayt]

Guns don't surprise me. It's been brought up a lot before! How do people feel about multiclass feats or alt class features for some existing PrC's?

-X

That actually sounds really cool. A Dark Tempest ACF that traded out Power Strike and modified the Expanded power list for Gifted Blade would be really cool, IMHO.

[Shinken]

Unique Gifted Blade powers. (Bestow blade, maybe? Cloud of knives mindblades?)
THIS!


Akashic crossover.
THIS!


Elemental mindblade Blade Talents.
We already have those, actually.

Something I would like to see would be a few weapon enhancements exclusive to mind blades, specially related to psychic strike. An ophiduan archetype with ways to generate poison in your mindblade would also be pretty cool. Some kind of positive/negative energy theme (be it by archetypes, blade skills or a combination of both) could work as well.

However, the one thing I think we need to see is the ability to cut through dimensions with your mindblade. Actually, the power to cut abstract things with your mindblade would also be pretty cool - say, cutting disease out of an ally. Or if your enemy is buffed (say, hasted) you cut the buff out of him.

[Segev]

It's always bugged me that the Soulknife gets Wild Talent (which grants pp) and nothing with which to use them. I'd be interested to see options for spending pp on things for the Soul Knife. They have limited mechanisms without dipping to get more (Manifester property on the blade, for instance), so there could be interesting tricks to use here.

[Vhaidara]

Idea: Give the Soulknife a PP progression (to go with Wild Talent). Make it small, and not scale with an ability (outside of Gifted Blade, of course). Allow them to spend PP to further enhance their mindblade for 1 round.

[arkangel111]

Double weapons... maybe an archetype that utilizes the alter blade more. I thought it would be awesome to ubercharge in with a 2-hander for the big hit, then swap to two weapon/double weapon fighting seamlessly. Also a PRC or 3 might be nice.

[PsyBomb]

Akashic and PoW crossovers have been mentioned (ESPECIALLY a PrC to combine with Guru), so I'll register a vote there. Heck, I'd play anything that progressed binds, bladeskills, and Veil capacity.

ACFs from the new Hybrids (Panache and Martial Flexibility primarily) would be awesome

Favored Class bonuses from recent or otherwise missing races are the last thing on my list

[Fax Celestis]

Please just stay away from the pile of Mary Sue garbage that is the Arcanist.

[Psyren]

Not to kick off a massive debate or anything, but Arcanist is a good class. Great for players who are new to Vancian and worried about gimping themselves with sorcerer spell selection, and the 'magical hacker' exploits give experienced players new toys to tinker with. I would love a divine version that similarly only has to prepare a given spell once and not worry about having multiple copies available.

I don't really see where it would overlap with Soulknife anyway though. But as far as making a new manifester, I would like to see one inspired by the Arcanist (and 3.5 erudite) - one that gives players more freedom from being chained to their powers known like a Psion and Sorcerer are.

[squiggit]

Guns don't surprise me. It's been brought up a lot before! How do people feel about multiclass feats or alt class features for some existing PrC's?

-X

If by multiclass feats you mean stuff like UPsi's Knightmare... Absolutely. Sounds fun. Ha a ton of fun playing a Knightmare even with all the issues it has

On the subject of PrCs, I've always felt like soulknife should be playing nice with pyrokineticist given the similar themes.

And on the subject of pyrokineticist, I'd like to see mind's eye's alternate kineticists (cryo, aceto, electro and sono) again. Maybe something that lets the soulknife switch its pyrokineticist class features to match their elemental mind blade?

[ErrantX]

Please just stay away from the pile of Mary Sue garbage that is the Arcanist.

Fax, come on, I would never go there. :P

Personally, I don't like the arcanist for a number of balance reasons. I was thinking more like the 3.5 multiclass feats and trying to avoid the whole 'combo' class thing for this book.

-X

[Fax Celestis]

Fax, come on, I would never go there. :P

Personally, I don't like the arcanist for a number of balance reasons. I was thinking more like the 3.5 multiclass feats and trying to avoid the whole 'combo' class thing for this book.

-X

Well, you could take a page from a couple of multiclass feats I wrote. You'd have to modify them to get them to do what you want, but...


Brilliant Erudite [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Progressing, Psychic] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Dead Reckoning [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Precision, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Divine Influence [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Divine, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Forgotten Arcana [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Arcane, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Glorious Radiance [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Aura, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Legendary Leader [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Companion, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Masterful Aptitude [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Martial, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Nature's Blessing [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Primal, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Potent Lore [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Lore, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

True Dedication [Multiclass]
Benefit: Determine the effects of your [Discipline, Progressing] abilities of any class that you have at least three levels in by substituting 1/2 your class level plus your hero value for your class level.
Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

Hero Value being equal to 1/2 your character level.

I guess phrasing it here would be more like:


Mindthief [Multiclass]
Prerequisite: Sneak Attack +1d6, Mind Blade

Benefit: Determine the effects of your Sneak Attack and Mind Blade class features by substituting 1/2 your class level plus 1/2 your character level for your class level.

Normal: You determine your class features according to your class level.

[Prime32]

Another thing I've had is that, planning out a build for a Soul Archer, there were extremely sparse pickings after the Soulbolt had finished advancing Soul archer levels, so more ranged compatible blade skills.It would be nice to have some way to throw mind nets without them dissipating on contact.

[Dusk Eclipse]

THIS!


THIS!


We already have those, actually.

Something I would like to see would be a few weapon enhancements exclusive to mind blades, specially related to psychic strike. An ophiduan archetype with ways to generate poison in your mindblade would also be pretty cool. Some kind of positive/negative energy theme (be it by archetypes, blade skills or a combination of both) could work as well.

However, the one thing I think we need to see is the ability to cut through dimensions with your mindblade. Actually, the power to cut abstract things with your mindblade would also be pretty cool - say, cutting disease out of an ally. Or if your enemy is buffed (say, hasted) you cut the buff out of him.

I think cutting the threads of magic/psionics/etc with a mindblade would be really cool and very thematic; I'm not so sure about diseases and the like though.

[TheIronGolem]

I'd love to see some kind of "psy-lash" archetype whose mindblade acts as a whip (kind of like the Pyrokineticist PrC but without the fire), with utility powers like swinging-assisted jumps and manipulating items with the lash at range.

[Seerow]

People have mentioned Akashic Crossover, I'm going to take that a step further. I want to see a full triage of Akasha, Soulknife, and Aegis, with a Vow of Poverty style restriction in exchange for getting full (or nearly full) access to all 3.


For the Soulknife itself I'd have to refresh myself on what features are already out there for the DSP Soulknife.


Edit: Okay here's something, I'd like to see an Archetype with a stronger emphasis on Psychic Strike. Getting to use it on all attacks in a full attack, or making it deal extra damage on a standard action strike, in exchange for giving up bladeskills or something. I've always felt like Psychic Strike should either be more similar in usability to Sneak Attack, or should provide significantly more damage than it does, as it is it mostly just feels weak and pointless. I know the class is already out, so that kind of big change isn't likely, but an Archetype should be able to find enough to trade out to make it work.


Another cool thing would be something like Fluid Blade, but instead of the Blade getting weaker each time, you had a set daily number of times you could use it (see: Aegis' reconfigure ability).

[IAmTehDave]

Personally I love the Soulknife, and have never been able to play a game with the proper DSP soulknife.

That being said, I like the idea I saw somewhere of an Invocation using Soulknife. Something like the Warlock but using Psionic Invocations, and the eldritch blast equivalent was the increasing Mind Blade value.

I'd also like to second the idea of forming the Mind Blade into Mind Tools, or something similar. Shape the Mind Blade in such a way that it's useful as a grappling hook, or thieve's tools, or a crowbar, etc.

[Prime32]

I think cutting the threads of magic/psionics/etc with a mindblade would be really cool and very thematic; I'm not so sure about diseases and the like though.Improved Knife to the Soul = Carve off memories?

[Thealtruistorc]

This Fellow (http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=3591.html) has a few good ideas.

[Fax Celestis]

This Fellow (http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=3591.html) has a few good ideas.

...you mean the guy who posted immediately before you?

[Psyren]

That being said, I like the idea I saw somewhere of an Invocation using Soulknife. Something like the Warlock but using Psionic Invocations, and the eldritch blast equivalent was the increasing Mind Blade value.

I would actually prefer this idea on the Cryptic instead - getting a smaller selection of auto-scaling psi-like abilities, in lieu of the manifesting progression, and completing your trransformation into the Psi-lock.

[Fax Celestis]

Psi-lock.

Don't you mean...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

Psylocke (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Psylocke-aoa.jpg)?

＼(｀Д´)／ YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[Psyren]

I did immediately think of her, yeah - but, since she is the quintessential soulknife and I was arguing for cryptic, I thought spelling it that way would have only been more confusing :smalltongue:

[Sayt]

THIS!
Something I would like to see would be a few weapon enhancements exclusive to mind blades, specially related to psychic strike. An ophiduan archetype with ways to generate poison in your mindblade would also be pretty cool. Some kind of positive/negative energy theme (be it by archetypes, blade skills or a combination of both) could work as well.

However, the one thing I think we need to see is the ability to cut through dimensions with your mindblade. Actually, the power to cut abstract things with your mindblade would also be pretty cool - say, cutting disease out of an ally. Or if your enemy is buffed (say, hasted) you cut the buff out of him.

The ability to dispel magic/psionics instead of doing psychic strikes would be very cool.

How about a blade skill that forces enemies struck by Psychic Strike to have to make concentration checks to cast or manifest for [Psychic Strike Dice] rounds?

I hesitate to be mean to monks, but the ability to cut ki out of their ki pools, maybe?


I think cutting the threads of magic/psionics/etc with a mindblade would be really cool and very thematic; I'm not so sure about diseases and the like though.


Improved Knife to the Soul = Carve off memories?

These give me some ideas: Two mutually exclusive, one transforms the Psychic strike damage to positive energy damage, the other to negative energy. Then two further blade skills: the first is a a psychic strike rider that forces a Save or Die on an undead, and makes them stay dead-dead-dead, requiring the PE blade skill. The other, a knife to the soul-like, that substitutes the Psychic Strike damage for negative levels equal to psychic strike dice.


This Fellow (http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=3591.html) has a few good ideas.

I approve of all of those ideas! Using your mind blade to cut through space/planar boundaries is really cool, and gives some access to powerful, neccessary mobility features which are normally reserved for casters.

[PsyBomb]

People have mentioned Akashic Crossover, I'm going to take that a step further. I want to see a full triage of Akasha, Soulknife, and Aegis, with a Vow of Poverty style restriction in exchange for getting full (or nearly full) access to all 3.

I'm throwing money at the screen but it isn't doing anything!

Seriously, this is a golden opportunity to take the concept and finally do something good with it. If you phrase the entry requirements right, you can probably let it work with a WIDE variety of entry methods. Give it excellent Essence growth, binds, rapid progression on both the Armor and Blade abilities, a couple of Bladeskills, and the ability to invest Essence for Enhancement bonuses to various stuff... well, I'd play one. Or more than one.

BTW, dispelling on melee attacks is another Akashic thing which can port easily to Psionics. Check the Guru ability "Sunder the Veil"

[Seerow]

I'm throwing money at the screen but it isn't doing anything!

Seriously, this is a golden opportunity to take the concept and finally do something good with it. If you phrase the entry requirements right, you can probably let it work with a WIDE variety of entry methods. Give it excellent Essence growth, binds, rapid progression on both the Armor and Blade abilities, a couple of Bladeskills, and the ability to invest Essence for Enhancement bonuses to various stuff... well, I'd play one. Or more than one.

BTW, dispelling on melee attacks is another Akashic thing which can port easily to Psionics. Check the Guru ability "Sunder the Veil"

Yeah if this doesn't become an official thing I'll probably end up making a homebrew for it eventually.

[ErrantX]

With this much support, I think Ssalarn is going to have be engaged on this one for a few things too! Thanks for the support on this guys! This is going to help me and the team immeasurably for getting a product together.

-X

[Fax Celestis]

...y'all want help? <_<

[PsyBomb]

Soulknives are my favorite Psionic system, and Incarnum was my favorite subsystem (and I'm probably the most active single person in the Akashic Mysteries thread here). I was already begging Ssalarn for that particular crossover, and the amount of ideas I have could probably fill a book on their own. I'm ALL KINDS of in on anything in that fusion.

[Thealtruistorc]

A friend of mine had an idea for a soulknife hybrid class with 6 levels of manifesting. Working on it right now.

[squiggit]

So tried to come up with some weird/bad ideas to toss around

So for archetypes and stuff...
-Soullord Take the idea of 'weird soulknives' to the extreme, the Soullord uses traditional weaponry and actually manifests a psionic construct cohort as his mind 'blade'. If the Aegis is the synthesist with less dumb the Soullord could be the Eidolon focused Summoner with less dumb. Blade skills instead apply to the cohort's melee attacks and the soulknife itself.. I'm not sure. The idea isn't admittedly fully fleshed out yet. Bladeskills that change the weapon's shape can be off limits... or you could do something like manifest mind daggers, chuck them, then have the construct reform itself now adjacent to the enemy... cuz you literally threw them.

-A natural attack themed soulknife. Wild soul? Brutal soul? Soulgore? I don't know. Think 3.5 totemist though, being able to shape a bunch of psionic natural attacks and change between your configurations rapdily. Very spiffy.

and for hybrid/multiclass feat ideas...

-Soulchemist - Alchemist/Soulknife hybrid feat, levels stack for bomb and blade enhancement progression maybe? The soulchemist can essentially enchant his chemist bombs (or maybe natural attacks if hyde) with blade shenaniganry.

-Soulterror - So if you haven't noticed by now, I'm bad with names, but Soulknife and Dread almost feel like they require a hybrid between them. Spooky mind blades that you can channel terrors through. Yes. I will go to your headquarters and throw dollar bills at you.

-Probably the worst idea of the lot, but a Soulbard in the vein of the skald who tosses psychic strike and blade enhancements to allies. This could actually maybe be a soul-tactician themed archetype too.

-A Soulgus that spellstrikes(psionistrikes?) with a mindblade. I actually like this idea more the more I think about it. But these are getting silly... to PrCs

-Floating Mindblade admittedly not a weird idea, but when you mentioned stuff about synergy with PrCs, the idea of a soulknife whose weapon(s, maybe he could have several) manifest instead as floating blades around him seemed kind of badass. Especially as some sort of gifted blade too. So... telekinetic weaponmaster soul knife.

-Like I already asked, stuff for Pyrokineticist and soulknife. Seeing how they both use psychic power to create weapons to fight with and don't use traditional psionic powers some sort of crossover seems almost like a given.

-I pretty much like the Dark Tempest as is so no real comment there. Other than holy **** the dark tempest you have drawn in UPsi looks exactly like a sith assassin in that new star wars MMO. Like, dangerously similar. He even has the right kind of (silly) helmet and lightsaber.

Less weird:
-The Soulknife and Stalker almost demand a crossover between them.
-Soulgun
-More items like the Dark Tempest's weapon that lets you do weird things with your mind blade if you 'wield' them.
-More FCBs

As an unrelated aside, while mulling over the Technology Guide and Psionics, I've decided I really want to see a "Cryptech" archetype. The name is just too perfect and the themes just line up too well.

[Greenish]

Something focused on being unarmoured and finessing a two-handed weapon wouldn't go amiss. Soulknife can do both as is, but it's a bit tricky.

[Shinken]

Don't you mean...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

Psylocke (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Psylocke-aoa.jpg)?

＼(｀Д´)／ YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Well played.

[malonkey1]

-A natural attack themed soulknife. Wild soul? Brutal soul? Soulgore? I don't know. Think 3.5 totemist though, being able to shape a bunch of psionic natural attacks and change between your configurations rapdily. Very spiffy.

In my opinion, the Soulknife should have been an Incarnum class from day 1.

[JusticeZero]

Soulknife who uses weapons, but augments them psychically.

[Seerow]

In my opinion, the Soulknife should have been an Incarnum class from day 1.

Soulknife was written quite a few years before the concept of Incarnum even came around.

[Segev]

Before I really read Incarnum, and all I knew was the Essentia-investment mechanic, I thought Incarnum+Psionics would be interesting. Especially if Incarnum was somehow a condensed version of power points, such that you could "congeal" the latter into the former (or "break apart" the former into the latter) and invest Essentia into those psi feats which, in 3.0, took pp investment. (In 3.5, they all take "maintaining a psionic focus," which isn't a bad mechanic, but is a lot flatter. I admit to not being familiar enough with DSP's psionics to know how that works in PF.)

[Psyren]

Before I really read Incarnum, and all I knew was the Essentia-investment mechanic, I thought Incarnum+Psionics would be interesting. Especially if Incarnum was somehow a condensed version of power points, such that you could "congeal" the latter into the former (or "break apart" the former into the latter) and invest Essentia into those psi feats which, in 3.0, took pp investment. (In 3.5, they all take "maintaining a psionic focus," which isn't a bad mechanic, but is a lot flatter. I admit to not being familiar enough with DSP's psionics to know how that works in PF.)

Psionic Focus works mostly the same way in PF that it did in 3.5. The primary changes are:
- You no longer need a check to become psionic focus - as long as you can take the action to do so, it is automatic.
- You don't need to have at least one power point left in order to gain focus anymore, so you can continue using your psionic feats even after you've run dry.

Some psionic feats provide a benefit for maintaining focus, some for expending it, and some have benefits for both.

[Fax Celestis]

Also you set the element for most of your blasty powers when you set focus, don't you?

[Psyren]

Also you set the element for most of your blasty powers when you set focus, don't you?

Yes, though Kineticists can change their element on the fly (as part of the action for manifesting a power) and Wilders can change it while surging.

[malonkey1]

Soulknife was written quite a few years before the concept of Incarnum even came around.

I am aware. I just think that, if I could go back and change it, I'd have had them not include the Soulknife, and then have them make it for MoI later.

[PsyBomb]

I am aware. I just think that, if I could go back and change it, I'd have had them not include the Soulknife, and then have them make it for MoI later.

yeah, the Incarnum Blade just wasn't up to snuff... ANY snuff...

[Fax Celestis]

yeah, the Incarnum Blade just wasn't up to snuff... ANY snuff...

I kind of feel like if you gestalted core Soulknife and core Soulborn, and then gave them free Incarnum Blade stuff at 10+, it might actually approach worthwhile.

[ErrantX]

Re-Opening this project now that Expanded is largely over and I can afford to spend attention on it. Check the OP for updated information. Keep in mind everything in this is being added as it is written (I will announce when adds are made) and the document is very mutable based on feedback. Have at it!

-X

[Ilorin Lorati]

Permissions.

[ErrantX]

Permissions.

Fixed. Mea culpa (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XZ7YUgvH7vgDqJvJs8vaQYCPV6K6wh8YAbW_ElFUHX4/edit?usp=sharing). :smallredface:

-X

[Thealtruistorc]

The Mindflayer skill may want to mention that it grants proficiency with both the whip and scorpion whip. Penalties exist for lack of simultaneous proficiency.

Destructive Blade's 1d3 ability damage seems really low for 16th level. I assume that's a typo.

Will psywar gain any mind blade abilities? I know people liked that in 3.5.

Are there going to be any blade skills that make your weapon bigger, or possibly give it reach?

[ErrantX]

The Mindflayer skill may want to mention that it grants proficiency with both the whip and scorpion whip. Penalties exist for lack of simultaneous proficiency.

Destructive Blade's 1d3 ability damage seems really low for 16th level. I assume that's a typo.

Will psywar gain any mind blade abilities? I know people liked that in 3.5.

Are there going to be any blade skills that make your weapon bigger, or possibly give it reach?

Thanks for the heads up on the whip, I'll make it clearer - I operated under the common sense conclusion that "being proficient" with their own mind blades would make up for that but sometimes it's better to be overly clear.

You misunderstand the skill - it's a straight upgrade to Knife to the Soul. Knife to the Soul does 1 point of ability damage to mental attributes per psychic strike die you drop, where as Devastating Blade does 1d3 points of ability damage to ANY attribute per psychic strike die dropped. Clarifying it a bit more.

Nope, not in this book. Not my bag of bones. Soulknives are the stars of this book. Psionics Augmented: Psychic Warrior would be the place for that - TBA of course.

Reach is already an option from a current blade skills so I am not going to go over that road again. Expansion'll make it bigger! :P

-X

[Ilorin Lorati]

For Augmented Blade:


This overrides any enhancements that may already be on this weapon, but the weapon retains any material bonuses it may have.
Which would Masterwork be considered under?

For Pious Soul:


The pious soul may elect to take blade vows in blade of blade skills on even levels starting at 6th level.

Emphasis mine.

Why are Blade Vows a different thing from Blade Skills? You could accomplish the same thing simply by nothing they're unique to the archetype and have a 6th level prerequisite. It seems like this would keep you from taking them with Extra Blade Skill - is that what the intent is?

Would the spells count for Unsanctioned Knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/unsanctioned-knowledge)?

[Mehangel]

One of my biggest disappointments with the War Soul was that it did not support the Dex-Based Soulknife Archetype 'Nimble Blade' I was wondering if the War Soul could be edited so that instead of War Soul replacing the Blade Skill at 10th, it replaces the blade skill granted at 8th?

[Kaidinah]

This is a pretty exciting project. I look forward to seeing how this unfolds!

Edit: In Psi Aug: Wilder, there was a feat that allowed characters to wild surge their mind blades. If you wanted to do a multiclass feat for wilders/soulknifes, you might want to look at it to make sure you don't tread the same ground.

[PsyBomb]

This is a pretty exciting project. I look forward to seeing how this unfolds!

Edit: In Psi Aug: Wilder, there was a feat that allowed characters to wild surge their mind blades. If you wanted to do a multiclass feat for wilders/soulknifes, you might want to look at it to make sure you don't tread the same ground.

Dangit, you're making me want to spend money I don't have...

[MilleniaAntares]

Telekinetic Athleticism - The psionic energies of the soulknife permeate her body, greatly enhancing her athletic prowess. She gains the benefits of the Mental Leap and Speed of Thought psionic feats while she maintains her psionic focus.
Does this mean that they cannot use the expend-psionic-focus aspects of those feats?


Telepathic Blade - The psychic potential within the soulknife opens up telepathic pathways in her mind, allowing her to reach out and connect to the minds of others. She gains telepathy out to 400 ft. and can communicate with any creature, regardless of Intelligence, so long as they have an Intelligence of 1 or higher. The range of her telepathy increases by 10 ft. every two soulknife levels after. Additionally, as long as she maintains psionic focus, she can detect other creatures within 30 ft. using telepath to communicate, although she cannot determine the content of the communication. The soulknife must be at least 10th level to select this blade skill.
To be honest, I find this to be quite a stretch for the flavor of the soulknife.

The way I see it, soulknife is more metacreation/psychokinesis/clairsentience (with feral heart trading out metacreation for psychometabolism)... However, the gifted blade does have a few telepathy powers, so this may not mean all that much.

Also, the second to last sentence has a grammar issue, and may not exactly make much sense in terms of game mechanics. I think you may be saying that the soulknife can detect the presence of non-mind affecting-immune creatures, maybe? Is it accurate enough to pinpoint their exact locations, or is it just "I know someone else is nearby"?


Guns don't surprise me. It's been brought up a lot before! How do people feel about multiclass feats or alt class features for some existing PrC's?

-X
While not a PrC, I'd like some support for the feral heart... (Feral heart + warsoul subarchetype when?)

[Sayt]

Cleave space: very cool, the only problem is the "Fold Space Ends Your Turn" thing, seeing as dimensional agility doesn't technically work with it.

Devastating Space: Maybe make the 1d3/die thing a little more clear. But this made me freaking drool. Can't believe I'm saying this, maybe a bit too strong, 5d3 Con damage is gonna be nasty.

Metapsionic blade: Feels like the language needs to be cleaned up. Doesn't actually say you manifest a power, you just inflict the effects of the power. Do you provoke for manifesting? Does it cost power points? Can it be augmented? Suggested reword under the cut:
"As a full round action, the soulknife may make a single attack and expendhis psionic strike. If this attack hits, the soulknife may manifest a single power targeting the enemy hit by the attack as a free action."

Psychic Toolkit: Bravo! A nice bit of out of combat utility.

Stunning Blade: Things I would do: Make this count as stunning fist for pre-req's. Also, redundancy: "he target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next turn)."
You probably don't also need to reiterate the stunned condition, and those creatures which are immune to it.

Tactile Telekinesis: as far as I can tell, this isn't in UPsi. What do?

Telepathic Blade: Maybe pushing it a little as is. Something I could forsee is 'throwing' a mindbolt at someone for 0 damage that has a message encoded.

Augmented Blade looks very cool

[tekevil]

If a gifted Blade Soul Knife took


Power Reserve - The soulknife’s innate psychic essence is stronger than others of her kind, growing more powerful as she advances in level. The power point pool granted by the Wild Talent that the soulknife receives at 1st level increases in size by two points per soulknife level (the soulknife does not gain bonus power points for having a high ability score). If the soulknife receives the Psionic Talent feat at 1st level instead, this feature adds to that power pool instead. These points may be used to manifest powers (if any are known) and support other abilities that require use of a power point pool. This blade skill may only be selected once.

would bolded text keep them from receiving bonus power points? Since specific generally trumps general rules.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Yeaaah, that should probably have "from this ability".

[tekevil]

Vow of Destruction - Once per day, the pious soul may expend their psionic focus as a swift action and align their faith blade to the annihilation of an enemy of their faith. When attacking this target, the psious blade adds their Wisdom modifier to attack rolls and 1/2 of their class to damage rolls. The pious soul may use this an additional time per day at 12th level, and again at 18th level.

A commonly taken Blade SKill is


As long as the soulknife maintains psionic focus, she adds her Wisdom modifier to her attack and damage rolls instead of her Strength modifier.

So I think it may be best if Vow of Destruction worked with Focused Offense instead of competing with it.

Alternative bonuses to bolted text
-Ignore DR (This is like Smite Right?)
-Ignore miss chance
-Text saying that if you already have Focused Offense to double it


nd the pious soul may expend his psionic focus to subject the target to the effects of a calm emotions spell using the pious soul’s class level as their caster level (DC 11 + Wisdom modifier).
Since this is a SLA I think it you would be able to buff it to 10+1/2 level+wis modifier. Otherwise this blade skill is mostly useless.


saving throws against evil creature’s abilities or evil spells and abilities.

"abilities" is pretty non-specific and can be read as "Anything an evil creature does that can cause a save" such as a Succubus casting Charm Person or an evil Wizard casting Slow. If so then this Vow is the strongest save bonus Vow. I wouldn't mind all the other vows being brought up to its level.

[tekevil]

Well now that feedback is out of the way I have this to say

I like the breadth of options presented in this book and I gotta say that it's super cool! The Blade Skills feel like stuff that would be at home among Ultimate Psionics and some of the particularly nice ones (such as form soul bolt) can do a lot for increasing Soul Knife Viability.

My only wish is that a 2WF+Archery Soulknife didn't take so long to turn on! Any chance of a early or mid level blade skill to give you some related bonus feats?

[Ilorin Lorati]

So I think it may be best if Vow of Destruction worked with Focused Offense instead of competing with it.

Technically speaking, it should. One adds Wis modifier, and the other replaces the Str modifier with it. Giving it a specific bonus type (Read: a Sacred bonus) might clean clean it up, though.

[PsyBomb]

I'd like to reiterate the Soulknife/Aegis/Akasha Poverty-themed PrC from a page or so ago (I believe it was Segev who suggested it first?) Thing's going to be a bear to define and write, but I might never play anything else if it comes out. Given archetypes and newer abilities coming out, it might be possible to squeak entry there in a very great number of ways.

Intended entry Soulknife 1, Aegis 2, Veilweaver 2 or similar. Basically, able to form the Mind Blade/Soul Bolt, Astral Suit, and some veils.

Class swears off material wealth, abiding by the Monk's Vow of Poverty. In return, it (rapidly) progresses significant chunks of the prior classes, plus gives a couple of essentials and stat bonuses as innate abilities.

Chassis would also have to be very solid. Full BAB, d10, all good saves, probably 4+Int skills.

[Prime32]

Still hoping for a way to stab your mind blade into the ground and impale everyone around you on solid walls of blades. Or a way to have a mind blade so sharp that it bypasses DR/hardness, and lets you attempt to counter attacks by sundering the attacker's weapon. Or a psionic power that lets you absorb your mind blade to increase in size and sprout blades all over your body.

Suggested magic items: A bow that lets you draw "mind arrows" as a free action while gripped, with all the properties of your normal mind blade. A rod powered by slotting a mind blade into it as a move action, providing a number of charges equal to the mind blade's total enhancement bonus (its stronger effects cost large numbers of charges to use, making it an item that can be gained at low levels and scale with your character).


Telekinetic Bolt - (Cannot be taken by soulbolts) The soulknife learns to manifest her mind blade as a variety of ranged weapons as well as the forms her mind blade normally may take. The soulknife is always considered proficient with her telekinetic bolt. Selection of this blade skill grants the form mind bolt and launch mind bolt class features (see soulbolt archetype). The mind bolt gains the enhancement bonus of the soulknife’s mind blade and may select its own enhancements (such as distance or flaming) as if it were a separate weapon from her mind blade.The soulknife must be at least 4th level to select this blade skill.
Could probably use a note that you can select blade skills from the soulbolt list, but can only apply them to your mind bolt (giving Telekinetic Blade the reverse is unnecessary). Also the restriction should be "Cannot be taken if you have the Form Mind Bolt class feature".


Augmented Blade - Most soulknives rely on the idealized weapon-form that is created by their concentrated will and effort. Some soulknives however, are unable to physically manifest a solid-thought weapon into existence and use this for war. These soulknives have overcome their handicap by introducing a psicrystal to the equation. By focusing this weapon-manifesting energy into their psicrystal, they can cause it to bind to a weapon and augment its abilities in combat just like more traditional soulknives.You need both a weapon and a psicrystal as physical anchors? I honestly think it would be cooler if either your psicrystal changed shape into a weapon, or you had another spirit/personality in your head that scaled like a psicrystal and could possess weapons you touch.

Also, I notice that an lv1 Psicrystal Augment does not treat your weapon as magic or masterwork - using it with blade skills is of no benefit until lv2.

[Chimmon]

-Floating Mindblade admittedly not a weird idea, but when you mentioned stuff about synergy with PrCs, the idea of a soulknife whose weapon(s, maybe he could have several) manifest instead as floating blades around him seemed kind of badass. Especially as some sort of gifted blade too. So... telekinetic weaponmaster soul knife.

This is a Soulknife concept that I've given a lot of thought to. You can do it with Focused Offense right now, if you just adjust the fluff of the class to let the mindblades float. Having it as it own archetype would be better, and you wouldn't have to try and force telekinetic weaponmaster into the build.

Personally, I think it would be a lot of fun to be able to use the weaponmaster's "my sword is floating here" ability as a focus point of a base class. Letting it flank, take AoOs, and grant a pseudo reach from a much earlier level.

[Nihilarian]

Augmented Blade's Psicrystal Augment: can this attach to the weapon created by Call the Soul's Blade?

[ErrantX]

One of my biggest disappointments with the War Soul was that it did not support the Dex-Based Soulknife Archetype 'Nimble Blade' I was wondering if the War Soul could be edited so that instead of War Soul replacing the Blade Skill at 10th, it replaces the blade skill granted at 8th?

Wasn't my intent to seal the deal on that blend. I'll add it to the PoW errata document. I personally find no issues with this.


This is a pretty exciting project. I look forward to seeing how this unfolds!

Edit: In Psi Aug: Wilder, there was a feat that allowed characters to wild surge their mind blades. If you wanted to do a multiclass feat for wilders/soulknifes, you might want to look at it to make sure you don't tread the same ground.

I'm not going to do wilder/soulknife feat because we already have that. Gareth made sure to alert me to its existence and I kept it open on my desk while writing brutality blade archetype.


Does this mean that they cannot use the expend-psionic-focus aspects of those feats?

To be honest, I find this to be quite a stretch for the flavor of the soulknife.

The way I see it, soulknife is more metacreation/psychokinesis/clairsentience (with feral heart trading out metacreation for psychometabolism)... However, the gifted blade does have a few telepathy powers, so this may not mean all that much.

Also, the second to last sentence has a grammar issue, and may not exactly make much sense in terms of game mechanics. I think you may be saying that the soulknife can detect the presence of non-mind affecting-immune creatures, maybe? Is it accurate enough to pinpoint their exact locations, or is it just "I know someone else is nearby"?

While not a PrC, I'd like some support for the feral heart... (Feral heart + warsoul subarchetype when?)

1 - I'll adjust this; burn psychic strike instead!
2 - The soulknife is actually pretty neutrally written. I feel that they have a boatload of psionic potential that does not immediately lend itself to actual powers, but a potential wealth of psionic talent. The potency is there, it just manifests differently.
3 - I grabbed that directly from the telepathy ability of psions, so... I hope not?
4 - I'll see what I can do. You're looking for a martial initiator feral heart though?


Cleave space: very cool, the only problem is the "Fold Space Ends Your Turn" thing, seeing as dimensional agility doesn't technically work with it.

Devastating Space: Maybe make the 1d3/die thing a little more clear. But this made me freaking drool. Can't believe I'm saying this, maybe a bit too strong, 5d3 Con damage is gonna be nasty.

Metapsionic blade: Feels like the language needs to be cleaned up. Doesn't actually say you manifest a power, you just inflict the effects of the power. Do you provoke for manifesting? Does it cost power points? Can it be augmented? Suggested reword under the cut:
"As a full round action, the soulknife may make a single attack and expendhis psionic strike. If this attack hits, the soulknife may manifest a single power targeting the enemy hit by the attack as a free action."

Psychic Toolkit: Bravo! A nice bit of out of combat utility.

Stunning Blade: Things I would do: Make this count as stunning fist for pre-req's. Also, redundancy: "he target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next turn)."
You probably don't also need to reiterate the stunned condition, and those creatures which are immune to it.

Tactile Telekinesis: as far as I can tell, this isn't in UPsi. What do?

Telepathic Blade: Maybe pushing it a little as is. Something I could forsee is 'throwing' a mindbolt at someone for 0 damage that has a message encoded.

Augmented Blade looks very cool

1 - Cleave Space runs into the fold space problems - I dunno. I'll see what I can get away with here without becoming ridiculously overpowered.
2 - I think I may tone it back to just 2 points, still teetering on too strong with all attributes but damn fun and high level.
3 - Thank you for the wording help, that's much better.
4 - I felt it was needed, especially for those with Covert Training.
5 - Done.
6 - Wait and see, it's a new power for this book.
7 - That's kind of lol-worthy.
8 - Thanks! :)


If a gifted Blade Soul Knife took

would bolded text keep them from receiving bonus power points? Since specific generally trumps general rules.


Well now that feedback is out of the way I have this to say

I like the breadth of options presented in this book and I gotta say that it's super cool! The Blade Skills feel like stuff that would be at home among Ultimate Psionics and some of the particularly nice ones (such as form soul bolt) can do a lot for increasing Soul Knife Viability.

My only wish is that a 2WF+Archery Soulknife didn't take so long to turn on! Any chance of a early or mid level blade skill to give you some related bonus feats?

Oops. Fixed oopsies there and also made adjustments to those skills / vows. Two weapon fighting and archery soulknife? *boggles* Okay. We talking mind-handcrossbows here?

Thanks for the feedback, tek!


Still hoping for a way to stab your mind blade into the ground and impale everyone around you on solid walls of blades. Or a way to have a mind blade so sharp that it bypasses DR/hardness, and lets you attempt to counter attacks by sundering the attacker's weapon. Or a psionic power that lets you absorb your mind blade to increase in size and sprout blades all over your body.

Suggested magic items: A bow that lets you draw "mind arrows" as a free action while gripped, with all the properties of your normal mind blade. A rod powered by slotting a mind blade into it as a move action, providing a number of charges equal to the mind blade's total enhancement bonus (its stronger effects cost large numbers of charges to use, making it an item that can be gained at low levels and scale with your character).

Could probably use a note that you can select blade skills from the soulbolt list, but can only apply them to your mind bolt (giving Telekinetic Blade the reverse is unnecessary). Also the restriction should be "Cannot be taken if you have the Form Mind Bolt class feature".

You need both a weapon and a psicrystal as physical anchors? I honestly think it would be cooler if either your psicrystal changed shape into a weapon, or you had another spirit/personality in your head that scaled like a psicrystal and could possess weapons you touch.

Also, I notice that an lv1 Psicrystal Augment does not treat your weapon as magic or masterwork - using it with blade skills is of no benefit until lv2.

I have some ideas on that front actually. Some psionic powers, the brutality blade has a few abilities that fall under "eruption of blades" thing. I also have another archetype that's getting some of the other stuff you're looking for. Not sure if I'll make those mainstream blade skills or specialist ones yet.

A crystal bow focus sounds awesome. Really all of these items. As usual, you're a wealth of good ideas.

Agreed on telekinetic bolt.

Yes, you do. Reason being for that is that it allows you to slap it to pretty much any weapon you want to pick up so you're never limited by what weapon you use. Slap to the greatsword and rock out. Pull it off the sword and slap it to that crossbow or longbow. Go to town. I avoided the psicrystal blade thing because it steps into something else I wanted to do and it also steps into something I think one of the Bosses is doing. I have added that it makes the weapon masterwork at 1st level as well. Thanks for that!


This is a Soulknife concept that I've given a lot of thought to. You can do it with Focused Offense right now, if you just adjust the fluff of the class to let the mindblades float. Having it as it own archetype would be better, and you wouldn't have to try and force telekinetic weaponmaster into the build.

Personally, I think it would be a lot of fun to be able to use the weaponmaster's "my sword is floating here" ability as a focus point of a base class. Letting it flank, take AoOs, and grant a pseudo reach from a much earlier level.

I'll see what I can do - this is neat and may fit into something I'm doing with what I'm dubbing currently "psionic attack constructs".


Augmented Blade's Psicrystal Augment: can this attach to the weapon created by Call the Soul's Blade?

Negative - needs to be a real and permanent weapon.

-X

[ErrantX]

A couple new blade skills, Blade Rush and Telekinetic Edge, are added. Tweaks to a few blade skills like Cleave Space.

Added the Brutality Blade archetype and some tweaks based on feedback to Augmented Blade and Pious Soul.

-X

[phlidwsn]

Blade Rush: is that a Swift to move and then you can Full attack, or spend a Swift to move and perform a full attack, and then potentially make a regular full attack?

Telekinetic Edge:

Instead of

While psionically focused, the soulknife may expend her psychic strike charge and instead of inflicting additional damage to ignore a target’s damage reduction or an object’s hardness until her next turn.

cleaner phrased as?:

While psionically focused, the soulknife may expend her psychic strike charge to ignore a target’s damage reduction or an object’s hardness until her next turn instead of inflicting additional damage.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is some copy-paste errors in the Blade Rage Psychic Enervation entry, it references the Wilder :smallwink:

[meemaas]

This is a Soulknife concept that I've given a lot of thought to. You can do it with Focused Offense right now, if you just adjust the fluff of the class to let the mindblades float. Having it as it own archetype would be better, and you wouldn't have to try and force telekinetic weaponmaster into the build.

Personally, I think it would be a lot of fun to be able to use the weaponmaster's "my sword is floating here" ability as a focus point of a base class. Letting it flank, take AoOs, and grant a pseudo reach from a much earlier level.

I've actually had some serious idea concepts for something like that n only wielding more weapons. I intended on writing it up but found that the mechanics I had come up with were a violation of Grods Law.

[Mehangel]

Wasn't my intent to seal the deal on that blend. I'll add it to the PoW errata document. I personally find no issues with this.

Thankyou so very much, that was my only complaint about the War Soul, and had I seen the War Soul before it was published, I am sure I would've spoken up..

[MilleniaAntares]

4 - I'll see what I can do. You're looking for a martial initiator feral heart though?
Yes. I consider maneuvers more fun than rage. Probably wouldn't be too hard, given that you'd just have to cut out the rage, graft war soul maneuvers with primal fury instead of solar wind and veiled moon, and add a primal fury blade skill.

Oh, don't forget to add a sidebar for any new blade skills you want compatible with feral heart, given that the archetype relies on whitelisting rather than blacklisting.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Added the Brutality Blade archetype and some tweaks based on feedback to Augmented Blade and Pious Soul.

-X

Looks like fun. Psychic Enervation is referencing wilders and wild surge, though.

[ErrantX]

Yes. I consider maneuvers more fun than rage. Probably wouldn't be too hard, given that you'd just have to cut out the rage, graft war soul maneuvers with primal fury instead of solar wind and veiled moon, and add a primal fury blade skill.

Oh, don't forget to add a sidebar for any new blade skills you want compatible with feral heart, given that the archetype relies on whitelisting rather than blacklisting.

Well, that's a lot more indepth than I planned for this. It sounds to me like you've got it mostly worked out. I'd suggest posting it as a homebrew thing here or get it written up and looking good, submit it on dreamscarred.com as a submission.


Looks like fun. Psychic Enervation is referencing wilders and wild surge, though.

Fixed. Oops! :smallredface:

-X

[Ilorin Lorati]

Fixed. Oops! :smallredface:

-X


:smallbiggrin:

I think it would be really cool to have a feat or Wrath Augment that let Brutality Blades / Gifted Blades use rounds of Rageblade as an actual wild surge. Any chance of that happening?

Also, I asked a question earlier that I still feel is important: If a Pious Blade takes Paladin spells, should they be counted as such for Unsanctioned Knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/unsanctioned-knowledge)? Situations like this are always wonky to me because while you're pulling the feature straight from them you're still not a paladin.

[ErrantX]

:smallbiggrin:

I think it would be really cool to have a feat or Wrath Augment that let Brutality Blades / Gifted Blades use rounds of Rageblade as an actual wild surge. Any chance of that happening?

Also, I asked a question earlier that I still feel is important: If a Pious Blade takes Paladin spells, should they be counted as such for Unsanctioned Knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/unsanctioned-knowledge)? Situations like this are always wonky to me because while you're pulling the feature straight from them you're still not a paladin.

Hmm, maybe a feat. That's more a feat than not.

I am cool with using unsanctioned knowledge, to be honest. It's not an overpowered feat, it's a great one, but it opens options.

-X

[Nihilarian]

Do Wrath Augments replace Blade Skills, or are they Blade Skills that can only be taken by the Brutality Blade?

[ErrantX]

Do Wrath Augments replace Blade Skills, or are they Blade Skills that can only be taken by the Brutality Blade?

They are brutality blade specific, like blade vows are specific for the pious soul.

-X

[tekevil]

Ohh, sorry I should have been more specific!

I meant literally 2wf and archery like Archer from FSN.

mah bro Archer (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/6/67/Fsn_Archer_in_anime.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141116063634)

Right now the two best methods I can think of involve a Mind Knight Psychic Warrior and a Soulknife who manages to get above level 11ish. Was hoping for some Blade Skills to help the process.

[tekevil]

Just realized Vow of Peace shouldn't be competing with the other save boosting vows, but with Vow of Corruption which has equally wide breadth. Carry on and my bad.

Also about that High Psionics Sidebar I hope that DSP can OK an errata to Ultimate Psionics that fuses Gifted Blade onto the original class. Instead of saying it's optional I wish it were just plain how Soul Knives worked.

[ErrantX]

Just realized Vow of Peace shouldn't be competing with the other save boosting vows, but with Vow of Corruption which has equally wide breadth. Carry on and my bad.

Also about that High Psionics Sidebar I hope that DSP can OK an errata to Ultimate Psionics that fuses Gifted Blade onto the original class. Instead of saying it's optional I wish it were just plain how Soul Knives worked.

We can't go that far, unfortunately. I have limits to work within. This is literally as far I am allowed to go, maybe a hair more so. It should just be there to begin with, agreed, I know Gareth and I have discussed it.

-X

[tekevil]

Well can't fault the company on that. I know that the mere idea of modifying a purchased hardcover is very scary. Errata is usually ok, but to go and say "well we changed our minds, do this instead" is a huuuuge kick for some people.

[ErrantX]

Well can't fault the company on that. I know that the mere idea of modifying a purchased hardcover is very scary. Errata is usually ok, but to go and say "well we changed our minds, do this instead" is a huuuuge kick for some people.

It's not only just that, it's that soulknife is legacy content we inherited and when designing it, the Bosses (Jeremy and Andreas, hallowed be their Skillz) decided to keep as close to the original content while also adding the minimum needed to make the class not only more effective and efficient, but also retain true to the source. I think that was a good call, and the only call I'd challenge them on is this one.

And that's why we're here with Augmented. :smallcool:

-X

[Ilorin Lorati]

We can't go that far, unfortunately. I have limits to work within. This is literally as far I am allowed to go, maybe a hair more so.
-X

Perhaps that 'hair more' could be detailing how a rolled-in gifted blade could work with the other archetypes, if there were any changes that should be made? I'd imagine that War Soul could be changed to trade out the Gifted Blade powers, and same with Pious soul's spells.

[Sayt]

Body of Rage: What damage do the hands do? Claw damage for size? Knife daamge for size? Mind blade damamge die?

Hand of hatred doesn't list an action on the focus spend.

Fountain of blood is cool. I might change the wording to "While using his rage blade, whenever the Brutality Blade inflicts a critical hit or activates his psychic strike, that enemy takes..." Not critical, but "Upon the use of" sounds...weird too me.

Vow of peace is currently DC 11+1/2 level+Wismod

And now my mind has moved the goalposts on the Stunning Blade thing, and thinks it should let you have fun interactions with, for instance, Mantis Style/Line, though I'm not sure how exactly to word it right now, perhaps something along the lines of "This feat counts as Stunning fist for prerequisites and feats and abilities which modify stunning fist"

[Jurai]

Well, that's a lot more indepth than I planned for this. It sounds to me like you've got it mostly worked out. I'd suggest posting it as a homebrew thing here or get it written up and looking good, submit it on dreamscarred.com as a submission.



Fixed. Oops! :smallredface:

-X
Where would we post that on the site's forums? Pathfinder or Playtest sections?

[Prime32]

I don't suppose we could get a blade skill requiring Mind Shield that lets you create little platforms beneath your feet to stand/jump in midair and emulate flight? Or for that matter, a variant/trait for the Shielded Blade archetype that turns your mind blade into the bashing component of your shield rather than a separate weapon?
I will have my Warder-Mage somehow. :smalltongue:


Telekinetic Edge - The mind blade that the soulknife wields can become honed to such a sharp edge, that it can seemingly pass through a foe’s defenses and strike at the softer and more vital bits inside. While psionically focused, the soulknife may expend her psychic strike charge to ignore a target’s damage reduction or an object’s hardness until her next turn instead of inflicting additional damage. The soulknife must be at least 4th level to select this blade skill.
Can this be extended to energy resistance and immunity? Imagine using Ice Blade on a red dragon that's warded itself against cold or something. Without that clause, just having a skill like Ice Blade makes this one semi-redundant.
Piercing the target's immunity to critical hits might be another option.


A rage blade is always a single weapon and is never split like a normal mind blade can be - the brutality blade needs to keep his focus.What about mind armor or a mind shield?


While in this form, his hands radiate raging psychic energy in the form of crude claws or knives (treat as light weapons) and bloody ectoplasm forms blades from his body (treat as armor spikes).You didn't actually specify what kind of weapons are in his hands. I'm presuming you get two of the light form of your mind blade (1d6, 19-20/x2), but even then it's better to give the stats directly - this archetype is theoretically compatible with future archetypes that don't have a light form, or have one that works significantly differently.


Gifted Blades - High Psionics Campaigns and You: Depending on the type of campaign world you play in, if the GM would call it a high psionics campaign, it would be within reason to allow soulknives with this archetype to retain their psychic strike progression and gain the power progression of the Gifted Blade archetype. What this allows for the soulknife is more of a competitive edge in a world where manifesting and/or magic is highly dominant and without compromising the combat abilities of the class either. The Gifted Blade archetype in return adds some additional flexibility as well as in and out of combat versatility to the soulknife that lets it stand as both a combative and psionic equal to classes like the psychic warrior or marksman.
The positioning of this sidebar makes it look like it gives manifesting to the archetype directly above it.

Plus, you really shouldn't have to select the Gifted Blade archetype (and trade nothing) to gain this benefit. Imagine you have a GM who only allows one archetype for whatever reason. Aside from the limits on character concepts, they're going to think you're saying "You can get amazing power and versatility for free, OR you can trade out half your class features to get far less useful abilities. These choices are perfectly balanced with each other."
Just make the variant "all soulknives gain Gifted Blade manifesting".



Ohh, sorry I should have been more specific!

I meant literally 2wf and archery like Archer from FSN.

mah bro Archer (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/6/67/Fsn_Archer_in_anime.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141116063634)

Right now the two best methods I can think of involve a Mind Knight Psychic Warrior and a Soulknife who manages to get above level 11ish. Was hoping for some Blade Skills to help the process.Using DSP's 3.5 material I'd say go with a Psychic Warrior who uses mind blade feats and this power (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/dueling-ground).

[Jurai]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pCGwpBLEfnAYHft7Vbb0CJnt3YzRMdtYVkPPT-ANX8Y/edit?usp=sharing

Hi, guys! I'm Jurai, and I have the shiniest meat bicyclea new Soulknife archetype, assuming you haven't already come up with something for it.

[ErrantX]

I will be largely absent this weekend. Please leave any feedback you have for the project here and I'll get to it Monday. Have a good weekend everyone!

-X

[ErrantX]

Where would we post that on the site's forums? Pathfinder or Playtest sections?

Playtest forums please!


Body of Rage: What damage do the hands do? Claw damage for size? Knife daamge for size? Mind blade damamge die?

Hand of hatred doesn't list an action on the focus spend.

Fountain of blood is cool. I might change the wording to "While using his rage blade, whenever the Brutality Blade inflicts a critical hit or activates his psychic strike, that enemy takes..." Not critical, but "Upon the use of" sounds...weird too me.

Vow of peace is currently DC 11+1/2 level+Wismod

And now my mind has moved the goalposts on the Stunning Blade thing, and thinks it should let you have fun interactions with, for instance, Mantis Style/Line, though I'm not sure how exactly to word it right now, perhaps something along the lines of "This feat counts as Stunning fist for prerequisites and feats and abilities which modify stunning fist"

Body of Rage - as Light Mind Blades.

Hand of Hatred - added action.

Fount of Blood - done.

Vow of Peace - fixed.

Stunning Blade - is that extra language necessary? I said something along the lines as this counts as Stunning Fist. I would think that would work.


Perhaps that 'hair more' could be detailing how a rolled-in gifted blade could work with the other archetypes, if there were any changes that should be made? I'd imagine that War Soul could be changed to trade out the Gifted Blade powers, and same with Pious soul's spells.

I am not touching War Soul honestly with this - I'm keeping it in mind with what I'm doing, but I am not touching it beyond that. I want to have the option for High Psionics to allow for Gifted Blade soulknives to retain their psychic strikes - this also allows for Gifted Blade/War Souls too. If there is a wording change that helps clarify "Yo dawg, now you can have psychic strike AND powers at the same time!" I'd be down.


I don't suppose we could get a blade skill requiring Mind Shield that lets you create little platforms beneath your feet to stand/jump in midair and emulate flight? Or for that matter, a variant/trait for the Shielded Blade archetype that turns your mind blade into the bashing component of your shield rather than a separate weapon?
I will have my Warder-Mage somehow. :smalltongue:

I dig it, let's make this do! Air Hike FTW. As for mind blade shield bashing, are we talking like a shield/sword hybrid? Like a Klar?


Can this be extended to energy resistance and immunity? Imagine using Ice Blade on a red dragon that's warded itself against cold or something. Without that clause, just having a skill like Ice Blade makes this one semi-redundant.
Piercing the target's immunity to critical hits might be another option.

I dig it. I could do something like that. I'll look at it and decide if I need a split up thing or if it would all be fair together.


What about mind armor or a mind shield?

No, Brutality Blade as written, no. Your whole focus is in the murder stick. I'm still iffy on not doing some kind of wild surge/rage hybrid instead of messing with the enhancement bonus.


You didn't actually specify what kind of weapons are in his hands. I'm presuming you get two of the light form of your mind blade (1d6, 19-20/x2), but even then it's better to give the stats directly - this archetype is theoretically compatible with future archetypes that don't have a light form, or have one that works significantly differently.

Fixed it - they're light weapon versions of the mind blade. I'll clarify it further.


The positioning of this sidebar makes it look like it gives manifesting to the archetype directly above it.

Really? It's not really intentional. It's just sorta... there?


Plus, you really shouldn't have to select the Gifted Blade archetype (and trade nothing) to gain this benefit. Imagine you have a GM who only allows one archetype for whatever reason. Aside from the limits on character concepts, they're going to think you're saying "You can get amazing power and versatility for free, OR you can trade out half your class features to get far less useful abilities. These choices are perfectly balanced with each other."
Just make the variant "all soulknives gain Gifted Blade manifesting".


I suppose I could just say "Soulknife Variant" and call it good, that might make it clearer.

-X

[Jurai]

A Bloodrager archetype for Soulknife.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pCGwpBLEfnAYHft7Vbb0CJnt3YzRMdtYVkPPT-ANX8Y/edit?usp=sharing

[Sayt]

Stunning Blade - is that extra language necessary? I said something along the lines as this counts as Stunning Fist. I would think that would work.

The current phrasing is counts for pre-reqs. So, for instance mantis style says "You are qualified to have me" but it's bonus is saying "I am point at the void"

That said, I think this might be a deeper rabbithole than I first realized, what with things like Dragon style Rar and Mantis Torment...

Edit: hell, I might homebrew/subuncha blade skill/series of skills myself after work to get stunning blade/fist/style feats to play nice...

[Prime32]

I dig it, let's make this do! Air Hike FTW.There's two levels to the trope, as far as I can see. The more basic form can't spam consecutive platforms (i.e. they'd need to expend their psionic focus to create one) so its uses are limited to double jumping, boosting a normal jump/dash, or slowing a fall. Or possibly helping allies do those things - RWBY had a few examples of Weiss doing this IIRC.
More skilled users are pretty much flying for all intents and purposes (or maybe air walk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/air-walk)ing, plus some acrobatics and minus the wind effects), and some can also expand the platform to fill their entire square, letting other creatures stand on it (though it still vanishes as soon as they move again).
The first level is mostly covered by Telekinetic Athleticism, so I could see it as a prereq for the second.


As for mind blade shield bashing, are we talking like a shield/sword hybrid? Like a Klar?Just hitting people with the shield. The Shielded Blade's version of the mind shield can be used to bash, but its weapon component never improves beyond masterwork unless you take the Deadly Shield skill (which cuts into its shield enhancements, and requires you to be lv5) or apply the Bashing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/magic-armor-and-shield-special-abilities/bashing) quality (which caps at +1).
You might be able to do it with the Emulate Melee Weapon (shield/shield spikes) skill, but it's not entirely clear how that would work.

[Ssalarn]

So, Chris and I were already talking about the possibility of an akashic soulknife archetype that got access to the Crusader's Shield and amped its abilities outside of the normal functions of the veil the way the Swarm Master or Snake Charmer get more out of the Pestilence Cloak or Light Whip veils.



Crusader’s Shield
Descriptors: none
Class: Daevic
Slot: Hands
Saving Throw: none
Bands of hardened akasha stretch out from your shield, creating an impenetrable wall of akashic energy.
Unlike most veils, Crusader’s Shield has no effect unless the veilweaver is wielding a shield or buckler. When you shape this veil, it forms around your shield, amplifying its protective abilities. As a move action, you can cause this veil to expand outward, creating a translucent, flat, vertical plane of akashic energy whose area is one 10-foot square wall that stops attacks, movement, breath weapons, and any targeted spells or effects that would pass through it. Teleportation spells or effects that do not require physical contact, such as hypnotic pattern, are not impeded. Effects that deal hit point damage that are intercepted by this akashic wall instead deal damage directly to the veil. The veilweaver cannot move while this wall is shaped, but may dismiss it as a free action.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, its hardness increases by 2 and the wall extends an additional 5 square feet.
Chakra Bind (Hands): [D4] Binding this veil to your Hands chakra makes it vastly more responsive; you may now activate the barrier as an immediate action a number of times per day equal to your veilweaving modifier.


What if we combined that with the idea of being able to create mobile platforms for airwalking and a few other abilities into a kind of highly mobile tank, something between Weiss from RWBY and Bartolomeo from One Piece. While we were at it, I'd also like to make the mindshield completely replace the mindblade, allowing it to gain full enhancement bonuses and use it as a primary weapon.
So, basically, the best parts of Thor from Absolute Duo, Bartolomeo from One Piece, and a splash of Weiss from RWBY. Thoughts?

[ErrantX]

So, Chris and I were already talking about the possibility of an akashic soulknife archetype that got access to the Crusader's Shield and amped its abilities outside of the normal functions of the veil the way the Swarm Master or Snake Charmer get more out of the Pestilence Cloak or Light Whip veils.



Crusader’s Shield
Descriptors: none
Class: Daevic
Slot: Hands
Saving Throw: none
Bands of hardened akasha stretch out from your shield, creating an impenetrable wall of akashic energy.
Unlike most veils, Crusader’s Shield has no effect unless the veilweaver is wielding a shield or buckler. When you shape this veil, it forms around your shield, amplifying its protective abilities. As a move action, you can cause this veil to expand outward, creating a translucent, flat, vertical plane of akashic energy whose area is one 10-foot square wall that stops attacks, movement, breath weapons, and any targeted spells or effects that would pass through it. Teleportation spells or effects that do not require physical contact, such as hypnotic pattern, are not impeded. Effects that deal hit point damage that are intercepted by this akashic wall instead deal damage directly to the veil. The veilweaver cannot move while this wall is shaped, but may dismiss it as a free action.
Essence: For each point of essence invested in this veil, its hardness increases by 2 and the wall extends an additional 5 square feet.
Chakra Bind (Hands): [D4] Binding this veil to your Hands chakra makes it vastly more responsive; you may now activate the barrier as an immediate action a number of times per day equal to your veilweaving modifier.


What if we combined that with the idea of being able to create mobile platforms for airwalking and a few other abilities into a kind of highly mobile tank, something between Weiss from RWBY and Bartolomeo from One Piece. While we were at it, I'd also like to make the mindshield completely replace the mindblade, allowing it to gain full enhancement bonuses and use it as a primary weapon.
So, basically, the best parts of Thor from Absolute Duo, Bartolomeo from One Piece, and a splash of Weiss from RWBY. Thoughts?

Actually, I was intending on using the paladin spear thingy :smallredface: I'll email you what I'm planning! Just been busy at work today.

Made more sense to weave that to a mind blade than the shield thingy. Also, I don't want to tie the disk idea to mind shields only - not every soulknife uses that and I don't want to force someone into an option they don't want just so they jump twice.

-X

[Ssalarn]

Actually, I was intending on using the paladin spear thingy :smallredface: I'll email you what I'm planning! Just been busy at work today.

Made more sense to weave that to a mind blade than the shield thingy. Also, I don't want to tie the disk idea to mind shields only - not every soulknife uses that and I don't want to force someone into an option they don't want just so they jump twice.

-X


Ah, fair enough. Like I was saying earlier, I was thinking that with the shield you get a lot more room for creating surfaces in general, so you can expand the idea a lot more while proc'ing off of existing mechanics. I'll keep an eye out for your e-mail.

[Kaidinah]

Now that I think about it, I am not the biggest fan of the akashic soulknife archetype being based off a veil that deals with alignment. Are there any other veils that could work for this concept?

[Ssalarn]

Now that I think about it, I am not the biggest fan of the akashic soulknife archetype being based off a veil that deals with alignment. Are there any other veils that could work for this concept?

Chris and I will dig into it a bit when he's got some free time and sort out some options, never fear!

[PsyBomb]

Now that I think about it, I am not the biggest fan of the akashic soulknife archetype being based off a veil that deals with alignment. Are there any other veils that could work for this concept?

There are literally about 15 veils which can work for Soulknives, ranging from melee weapons to ranged weapons to weapon enhancements. Written correctly, the archetype will be nearly as diverse as the base Soulknife (or more so)

[Kaidinah]

There are literally about 15 veils which can work for Soulknives, ranging from melee weapons to ranged weapons to weapon enhancements. Written correctly, the archetype will be nearly as diverse as the base Soulknife (or more so)
A archetype meant to pick a weapon-lke veil and stick with it could be very very cool.

[PsyBomb]

A archetype meant to pick a weapon-lke veil and stick with it could be very very cool.

Spitballing here (I'm away from my resources at the moment), but let's see...

Melee Weaponlike:
Crimson Totem
Embrace of the Old Ones: Shoulder Bind
Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light
Sea Drake's Talons (questionable)
Whirlpool Lash
Wrathful Claws

Ranged Weaponlike:
Hand Cannons
Riven Darts (questionable)

Weapon Enhancement:
Armory of the Conqueror
Daevic Aspect: Wrath (questionable)
Forcestrike Knuckles (questionable)

In addition, the Storm Gauntlets fall into all three categories depending on Bind. I didn't include Veils that didn't result in actual damage, regardless of using attack rolls or not, nor ones that were spell-like in execution.

of the above, I'd get really excited about Spear, Totem, Claws, Cannons, and Armory. I could really get behind Storm Gauntlets as well, but that would take a LOT of finagling to make it work.

[ErrantX]

You're awesome for that list, Psybomb - that's a huge help!

So before I start posting the psychic armory, more blade skills (yes, more of them!) and some feats, I'd love to get some more feedback specifically on the Brutality Blade, but really anything. Be it a flavor question or issue, be it mechanical, whatever. I've had largely positive stuff so far so I'm stoked, but I have gotten some complaints of "This doesn't need to exist" pretty much to everything I've written so far archetype wise as well from a few people more privately. Any input would be awesome.

-X

[Mehangel]

Okay so I am going to give my thoughts on different parts of the Psionics Augmented: Soulknife document, starting off with Bladeskills:



Blade Rush : While not particularly useful for Gifted Blades who have the Hustle power, it is definitely worthy of being a blade skill. Not everyone can be a gifted blade.

Cleave Space : Uh Hell yeah. I would think it safe to say that even Gifted Blade's might take this power. I dont want it changed, but something that I thought I should bring up is that blade skills are Extraordinary abilities. This means that this bladeskill as written can be used even in a Null Psionics Field. But please dont change this.

Devastating Blade : Not much to say on this, I mean I like it, and I think it is balanced.

Dispelling Strike : While not a particularly bad bladeskill, I often wonder if most soulknives might just take Additional Configuration or Fluid Form bladeskill and add the Suppression Weapon enhancement to the other mindblade. Again, not saying that it is a bad bladeskill, just that there are already 2 ways of accomplishing this.

Metapsionic Knife : Meh, its a great bladeskill for multiclass soulknifes, but this might be better off as a feat that allows manifesters to deliver touch attacks with their weapon. Even Dark Tempests will not find much use for the bladeskill as they already grant it, and with free manifesting to boot. A Gifted blade with this bladeskill will not likely ever use it and would honestly be more useful to any other class.

Mindflayer : Great, definitely worth taking.

Power Reserve : No. Uh, I can forsee alot of issues arising with this and Nimble Gifted Blades. Nimble Gifted Blades able to manifest level 1 powers unaugmented for free (via Adaptive Form + Mental Power) is one thing, but being able to cast any power it knows at full augmentation for free is just wrong. So no, either make it require 8 hours of rest for the points to be added to the power pool or remove this bladeskill from the list.

Psychic Net : Great bladeskill, but I dont think it would be unbalancing to remove the prerequisite bladeskill.

Psychic Toolkit : I am so happy this is getting added, I had often in an earlier game with a nimble gifted blade made use of Adaptive Form + Emulate Melee weapon to create improvised weapon: Toolkit. Just glad that I no longer need to do that.

Stunning Blade : Decent bladeskill, nothing to add. Moving on.

Tactile Telekinesis : I am not really seeing how this fits into the realm of the soulknife. But also, I looked in my copy of Ultimate Psionics, and I cannot find a power called Tactile Telekinesis, it should be appearing between Synthesate and Technique as One. On top of that, I feel that whatever Tactile Telekinesis does, it might be taking away from the power of the Telekinetic Weaponmaster prestige class..

Telekinetic Athleticism : Decent bladeskill, I am sure it will see use.

Telekinetic Bolt/Blade : Awesome, I always wished that a soulknife could have both ranged and melee weapons (besides mind daggers), even if it meant that the bladeskill was only available at level 10. Good to hear that these will be available before then at level 4.

Telekinetic Edge : Yes, Yes, Yes. I have often found myself in need of bypassing hardness.. I wasn't so much in need of bypassing damage reduction. But this was much needed.

Telepathic Blade : Flavorful, and useful outside of combat. Definitely approve.



EDIT 1: Added notes on the Brutality Blade


Manifest Rage Blade : I can't help but feel like this is both very wordy and needlessly complicated. I tried to rewrite the class feature but only managed to shorten it by 5 sentences. Because I dont have a solution to this problem, I would say leave it as written. Though if it actually becomes an issue, perhaps you can simplify it by having it reworded as the following:

At 1st level the brutality blade may create what is called a rage blade. A rage blade has twice the total enhancement bonus it normally has. (Temporary increases in enhancement such as Greater Magic Weapon do not double or stack with this increased enhancement). A rage blade may increase a mind blade's enhancement past the +10 maximum, but may only be maintained a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Wisdom modifier. Once a brutality blade has dismissed his rage blade, he becomes fatigued a number of minutes equal to the number of rounds that the rage blade has been active. The total number of rounds per day are renewed after 8 hours of rest.
- This ability replaces both Throw Mind Blade and the Bonus feat at level 1.

Psychic Enervation : Good as written, no need for change.

Raging Surge : Good as written, but if using the over-simplified rage blade, needs to be reworded to add only a bonus on saves (not attack and damage).

Wrath Augments : Good, but see the individual specialty bladeskills listed below:

o Body of Rage : Typo see below quoted text, I strike-through the word needed to be removed:

The rage blade takes a -1 to its overall enhancement bonus while manifested this way, but his both of his rage blades and his armor spikes share the same enhancements.
o Hand of Hatred : Good, no need for change here.
o Fountain of Blood : Also good, glad to see that you insured the bleeding stacked, otherwise it would've been not much better than the Rending Blades bladeskill.
o Rend the Body : Clarification needed, does the second strike gain Psychic Strike, or is this like haste, just gaining a second attack at highest BAB?
o Destroyer's Will : It is good as written, but I am wondering if having the Stalwart ability would be more fitting, i.e. Cuthroats get evasion, so giving stalwart to the brutality blade just sounds appropriate. Maybe give them both.

Instantaneous Wrath : Good as written.

Wrath Perfected : Appropriately written.

[ErrantX]

Okay so I am going to give my thoughts on different parts of the Psionics Augmented: Soulknife document, starting off with Bladeskills:



Blade Rush : While not particularly useful for Gifted Blades who have the Hustle power, it is definitely worthy of being a blade skill. Not everyone can be a gifted blade.

Cleave Space : Uh Hell yeah. I would think it safe to say that even Gifted Blade's might take this power. I dont want it changed, but something that I thought I should bring up is that blade skills are Extraordinary abilities. This means that this bladeskill as written can be used even in a Null Psionics Field. But please dont change this.

Devastating Blade : Not much to say on this, I mean I like it, and I think it is balanced.

Dispelling Strike : While not a particularly bad bladeskill, I often wonder if most soulknives might just take Additional Configuration or Fluid Form bladeskill and add the Suppression Weapon enhancement to the other mindblade. Again, not saying that it is a bad bladeskill, just that there are already 2 ways of accomplishing this.

Metapsionic Knife : Meh, its a great bladeskill for multiclass soulknifes, but this might be better off as a feat that allows manifesters to deliver touch attacks with their weapon. Even Dark Tempests will not find much use for the bladeskill as they already grant it, and with free manifesting to boot. A Gifted blade with this bladeskill will not likely ever use it and would honestly be more useful to any other class.

Mindflayer : Great, definitely worth taking.

Power Reserve : No. Uh, I can forsee alot of issues arising with this and Nimble Gifted Blades. Nimble Gifted Blades able to manifest level 1 powers unaugmented for free (via Adaptive Form + Mental Power) is one thing, but being able to cast any power it knows at full augmentation for free is just wrong. So no, either make it require 8 hours of rest for the points to be added to the power pool or remove this bladeskill from the list.

Psychic Net : Great bladeskill, but I dont think it would be unbalancing to remove the prerequisite bladeskill.

Psychic Toolkit : I am so happy this is getting added, I had often in an earlier game with a nimble gifted blade made use of Adaptive Form + Emulate Melee weapon to create improvised weapon: Toolkit. Just glad that I no longer need to do that.

Stunning Blade : Decent bladeskill, nothing to add. Moving on.

Tactile Telekinesis : I am not really seeing how this fits into the realm of the soulknife. But also, I looked in my copy of Ultimate Psionics, and I cannot find a power called Tactile Telekinesis, it should be appearing between Synthesate and Technique as One. On top of that, I feel that whatever Tactile Telekinesis does, it might be taking away from the power of the Telekinetic Weaponmaster prestige class..

Telekinetic Athleticism : Decent bladeskill, I am sure it will see use.

Telekinetic Bolt/Blade : Awesome, I always wished that a soulknife could have both ranged and melee weapons (besides mind daggers), even if it meant that the bladeskill was only available at level 10. Good to hear that these will be available before then at level 4.

Telekinetic Edge : Yes, Yes, Yes. I have often found myself in need of bypassing hardness.. I wasn't so much in need of bypassing damage reduction. But this was much needed.

Telepathic Blade : Flavorful, and useful outside of combat. Definitely approve.



Thanks for the feedback - but one thing in particular stood out and I need to call attention to it.

That Nimble Blade trick is illegal. You get the Blade Skill Mind blade Finesse but not the class feature "Blade Skill"; it's like receiving a specific bonus feat at 1st level but that doesn't give you the Bonus Feat class feature (if that analogy makes sense). So does that change your impression on Power Reserve?

-X

[Mehangel]

Thanks for the feedback - but one thing in particular stood out and I need to call attention to it.

That Nimble Blade trick is illegal. You get the Blade Skill Mind blade Finesse but not the class feature "Blade Skill"; it's like receiving a specific bonus feat at 1st level but that doesn't give you the Bonus Feat class feature (if that analogy makes sense). So does that change your impression on Power Reserve?

-X

First off, concerning Power Reserve, I dont know why you are bringing up 'Mind Blade Finesse.' I am talking about the level 10 ability that the Nimble Blade gains. See the below text:


Adaptive Form

Once a nimble blade has reached 10th level, she has learned how to rapidly alter her use of the mind blade to adapt to any particular situation. As an immediate action and by expending psionic focus, the nimble blade can select any one blade skill whose requirements she meets and be treated as having that blade skill. The effect of the blade skill selected lasts until she expends her psionic focus as an immediate action to change it.

This replaces the blade skill normally gained at 10th level.

I also checked the text from my copy of Ultimate Psionics pg 283 and it is the same.

So, no. It does not change my opinion on Power Reserve.

[ErrantX]

Okay, so I just sorta wanna chat about a few things we've got out already. I've got Psychic Armory finished, and I'm working on some feats. Finished some new Blade Skills too.

So - let's talk about Augmented Blade first. The goal is someone who instead of being a manifester of a pure psychic weapon, he instead slaps a psicrystal on any weapon (this includes, bows, crossbows, heck, could even stick it to a gun I suppose) and augment and enhance it. He may be able stripped of a weapon, but any weapon he has is going to be amazing in his hands. It's sort of like taking the skills that change your weapon or emulate weapons and having that for everything. You get some fighter training too. Is there anything else you think this archetype needs to do, anything you like or don't like?

Next up - Brutality Blade. So, when I was building it initially I was going for a sort of 'rage psychic beast' thing, where I'd take some elements from barbarians (rage powers), the combat wilder's wild surge replacement (and enervation, of course) and such, and then I was suggested to do what I did here and I thought that was more interesting - but I am not 100% on the execution here. Any thoughts on the ideas or implementation of the brutality blade in general would killer.

Pious Soul - I was excited by this one and one of my fellows at DSP pretty much hates the concept because we don't mesh 100% when it comes to high concept stuff with game design. It makes us better for it, but sometimes one of us has to be right! I like the idea that faith having an effect on how one conceptualizes one's psychic nature - one affects the other so to speak. So if you're one who is psychic and you're one of faith, your personal power (psychic) would be altered/empowered/changed by your faith in the divine. How do you all feel about Pious Soul?

Blade Skills - Any feedback on blade skills is cool.

-X

[Mehangel]

Augmented Blade:

What I like:
o Concept
o Compatible with War Soul archetype

What I don't like:
o That it replaces the abilities of the weapon in hand with abilities from a shorter list.

What I would recommend:
o Allow the individual augmented blade the choice of what abilities it replaces. Thus if a level 10 augmented blade has a +1 Bane (Undead) weapon, it isn't forced to loose the bane enchantment, but can instead augment it to a +3 bane (Undead) weapon, +2 Keen Bane (undead) weapon, or can change out the bane augment for Ghost touch. Does this make sense?

Brutality Blade: I already placed input in a previous post concerning it.

Pious Blade:

What I like:
o Concept
o Blade Vows

What I don't like:
o Found nothing really wrong with the archetype.

What I would recommend:
o Add a blade skill that gives Channel Energy;
o Add additional blade skills that tie into the above channel energy + psychic strike that focus on specific creature types (such as aberrations and constructs).

[Ssalarn]

Pious Soul - I was excited by this one and one of my fellows at DSP pretty much hates the concept because we don't mesh 100% when it comes to high concept stuff with game design. It makes us better for it, but sometimes one of us has to be right! I like the idea that faith having an effect on how one conceptualizes one's psychic nature - one affects the other so to speak. So if you're one who is psychic and you're one of faith, your personal power (psychic) would be altered/empowered/changed by your faith in the divine. How do you all feel about Pious Soul?


-X

Kind of reminds me of the 3.5 Ardent, one of my all time favorite classes. I think your faith influencing the way your psionic powers manifest makes a lot of sense and provides some very cool design territory.

In fact, maybe you and I should get together and pitch a book full of faith-based psionic archetypes to the bosses :)

We could do an Aegis that gets angelic customizations, a Dread that literally strikes the fear of god into his enemies... my brain is telling me that there's a cool way to take Oracle Mysteries and apply them to Cryptics. Plus, you could do psions who use domains instead of picking disciplines.

Anyways, back to the point, I'm all about the Pious Soul.

[Nihilarian]

Augmented Blade is cool because it encourages the golfbag warrior concept.

"Hmmmm, yes. Caddy, bring me my adamantine warhammer, I believe I'll need the extra punch to get through this horror's grotesque shell."

[Forrestfire]

Pious Soul - I was excited by this one and one of my fellows at DSP pretty much hates the concept because we don't mesh 100% when it comes to high concept stuff with game design. It makes us better for it, but sometimes one of us has to be right! I like the idea that faith having an effect on how one conceptualizes one's psychic nature - one affects the other so to speak. So if you're one who is psychic and you're one of faith, your personal power (psychic) would be altered/empowered/changed by your faith in the divine. How do you all feel about Pious Soul?

On one hand, I like the idea that having a belief in something would filter your psionic power, but given that the last time someone tried to write something like that, it was a travesty of terrible fluff (Divine Mind), all I can think here is that I don't trust it. It could be good, but if not written incredibly carefully, then it's not going to be.

Psionics' fluff has always been about coming from within. Altering the power from within through belief is a thing that could be awesome (like how the Ardent did it, focusing on concepts they modulate thier power with), but if you're thinking of tying it directly to gods or implying that you're getting psionic power from a higher power (like Divine Mind did it), that's a huge break from the established fluff and really should not exist.

[Powerdork]

Ultimately, the concept of faith in a manifester is fine so long as you don't even DREAM of touching divine magic with the pious soul. If you try, you are going to suffer from the same problem as the Divine Mind of 3.5, where psionics being FROM THE GOSHDARN SELF is being violated heavily.

Edit: Noticed the spellcasting. Feels out of place. Belongs in a theurge prestige class.

[Mehangel]

On one hand, I like the idea that having a belief in something would filter your psionic power, but given that the last time someone tried to write something like that, it was a travesty of terrible fluff (Divine Mind), all I can think here is that I don't trust it. It could be good, but if not written incredibly carefully, then it's not going to be.

Psionics' fluff has always been about coming from within. Altering the power from within through belief is a thing that could be awesome (like how the Ardent did it, focusing on concepts they modulate thier power with), but if you're thinking of tying it directly to gods or implying that you're getting psionic power from a higher power (like Divine Mind did it), that's a huge break from the established fluff and really should not exist.

+1, I agree that just as long as the Pious Blade doesn't get his power from the gods, it should be fine. Having his power augmented by his faith is okay though.

[Forrestfire]

And having gone and looked at the Pious Soul, I can now safely say I hate it. Sorry :smallfrown:


Power granted by a god, forced to worship a god
Completely breaks away from psionics' "power from within" fluff
Direct of cleric domains instead of unique abilities to give the class an identity
Divine spells (on a really crappy progression) instead of psionics
Alignment powers instead of (rather than into addition to) something more unique

This is basically a list of ways to do this sort of class wrong :smallsigh:

If you want a psionic/divine theurge, I would write a prestige class for it, rather than taking an idea that could be cool (mind blades modulated by strong belief) and wasting its potential on a paladin knockoff that breaks psionics' most basic fluff conceits.

EDIT: And since saying "I hate it" without suggesting alternatives isn't constructive at all, here's how I might do it differently:

Pious Blade

Alignment: Although a pious blade often worships a deity, he is not bound to follow that god's alignment, and some pious blades even believe in alternate interpretations of gods. An evil pious blade from a desert nation might worship the god of the sun as a terrible destroyer (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/1115741), rather than a holy light that routs undead, for example.


Mind Blade: If the pious blade worships a deity, his mind blade can be shaped into that deity's favored weapon rather than its base form. If he does not, it can become a single simple or martial weapon of his choice. This cannot be changed.


Piety (replaces bonus feat at 1 and psychic strike): At 1st level, a pious blade chooses a single cleric domain (does not have to be from his god's list) to embody his most core beliefs. He does not gain domain spells or the domain's granted power. At 1/3/7/11/15/19, he gains a thematic abilitied tied to that domain. Possibly tie specific domains' abilities to 1/3/11/19, and allow them to grab off another domain's list at levels 7 and 15, to represent how they're different from others, or possibly from a base, "generic" list, which could include divinely-inspired PLAs that are not fluffed as being directly granted divine spells, but as channeling power from within to emulate people who are granted such power. Some examples:

Destruction – some sort of bonus damage at 1, the ability to overcome DR at 3, a powerful sequence-breaking tool at 11 (blow holes in walls or something), an instant-kill capstone at 19
Fire – energy damage mind blade at 1, the ability to toss out blasts of flame as a scaling AoE in place of an attack at 3, human torch flight at 11, and an AoE nuke around you at 19
Healing – merciful mind blade at 1, healing shivs at 3, something like Breath of Life at 11 (with a decent cost), and the ability to self-resurrect at 19
Trickery – some sort of flat-footing or better feinting at 1, sneak attack or something at 3, cloaking and misdirection/teleports at 11 (like the warlock invocation flee the scene, perhaps), and the ability to fake out the grim reaper and not die at 19
Knowledge – bonuses to knowledges at 1, benefits to attacks from identifying creatures at 3, the ability to negate effects through smarts at 11, and some powerful not!divinations (maybe foresight and also a fluff ability) at 19


Etc. The alignment-themed blade skills could stay on now that the pious blade had something neat to fill the thematic gap and make them something more than knockoff paladins.

[Powerdork]

Alternatives to divine spells:


Spell-like abilities from a carefully-picked list of divine spells, particularly if they lack alignment descriptors.
Spell-like abilities from the Paladin spell list, " " " " ".
Psi-like abilities from a carefully-picked list of divine spells, " " " " ".
Psi-like abilities from the Paladin spell list, " " " " ".
A list of unique supernatural options, chosen by fleshing out the class so it doesn't feel hacky.
Psychic strike.
Anything that isn't divine spells.


If you're a soulknife, why are you casting spells anyway? You belong in the middle of the brawl, and if you have ANY spells, they need to allow you to do things that fit your concept better (shaping...) hold on. This archetype doesn't even have a clear concept listed in its introductory text! Please flesh out this idea before treading any further.

[Ssalarn]

I think the idea of a class like the Pious Soul is really good, though I agree that it needs to be separated a bit from true divine magic. I think having to worship a deity or at least a specific concept is fine; you have to believe in something strongly for that belief to manifest itself in your abilities, and losing said belief should negatively impact you, not because a deity is no longer empowering you, but because your belief was so intertwined with your focus and will. I've known great men and women in my life who could take a room by storm and seemed like forces of nature, but who were completely unmade by events that shook the foundations of their beliefs, so the idea that a loss in belief would undermine other mental faculties makes perfect sense.

I like the idea of Domains, but completely divorced from divine spell casting. Use the domains as something to hang your hat on, or even make psionic variations of a few of the most thematically appropriate domains.

As I think about this, it does seem like this idea might warrant more than an archetype in a release focused on a single class to be done right... Still, there's room for something good to happen here.

[Kaidinah]

I like the idea of Pious Soul. I just think that introducing divine magic is not the best idea. Divine influenced, but ultimately self powered psionics is cool, and I think that the archetype should be pushed in that direction.

Side note: I recall there being a soulknife archetype in Seventh Path that could heal with its mind blade. Is it compatible with Pious Soul? The two arechetypes feel very compatible mechanically and thematically.

[Nyaa]

The only thing I don't like about Augmented Blade is weapon training, as it means gloves of dueling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gloves-of-dueling) and probably bunch of other stuff I'm not aware of. Also a blade skill for each instance of weapon training is kinda expensive.

[tekevil]

+1, I agree that just as long as the Pious Blade doesn't get his power from the gods, it should be fine. Having his power augmented by his faith is okay though.

Well which powers are you talking about?

His Psionic powers that he was innately born with and uses to manifest a soul weapon or the Divine Spells that he prays for from his deity every morning? It's possible to draw power from multiple sources and that's exactly what the current incarnation of this archetype does.


I really don't see why people are saying that having Divine casting is forcing your psionic power to come from a deity.

In Pathfinder having access to Divine Magic has absolutely no bearing on your innate abilities. They are literally miracles granted by a deity for whatever reason they choose. So if a Soulknife, who uses their own psionic talent to manifest mind weapons, prays and worships hard enough why shouldn't he be granted miracles from the god he worships?

Is Gorum going to look at them and say "Well I would give you awesome miracles in the form of spells, but you have that thing where you can do stuff with your mind. That's totally icky and you don't deserve spells because of it."

It sounds to me like a bunch of people here have an irrational fear based on some jank from 3.5 that has no bearing on this archetype.



If you're a soulknife, why are you casting spells anyway? You belong in the middle of the brawl, and if you have ANY spells, they need to allow you to do things that fit your concept better (shaping...) hold on. This archetype doesn't even have a clear concept listed in its introductory text! Please flesh out this idea before treading any further.

A lot of Paladin spells are intended to be used in combat though. In fact the Paladin spell list is the spell list most suited to being in the middle of a brawl.

[Forrestfire]

It sounds to me like a bunch of people here have an irrational fear based on some jank from 3.5 that has no bearing on this archetype.


The thing is... This archetype's fluff is pretty much the Divine Mind's. It's not really irrational when the Pious Blade embodies almost everything people hate about that class.

[Powerdork]

It sounds to me like a bunch of people here have an irrational fear based on some jank from 3.5 that has no bearing on this archetype.

I'm saying that it has no purpose as an archetype. If anything, the concept (again, my big complaint: which concept?) deserves a prestige class.

[Turion]

The thing is... This archetype's fluff is pretty much exactly the Divine Mind's. It's not really irrational when the Pious Blade embodies almost everything people hate about that class.

... Divine Mind's fluff is "DA GODZ GAVE ME PSYCHIC POWAHS RAWR;" Pious Blade is "my faith changes how I view my power, and my God gives me aid."

The whole problem that people have with Divine Mind is that it was a divine class that granted manifesting (that you could lose for violating a code of conduct, no less). If it granted divine spells instead, it would have been less objectionable (though mechanically, still terrible, and also not really psionic anymore).
Pious Blade has a very loose code of conduct, and you don't lose psionic abilities for violating it (you keep your blade skills and mind blade; you lose blade vows and spellcasting, both of which are divine in nature).

I'm honestly not seeing the comparison.

[Forrestfire]

"A divine mind is a psionic character who channels the power of the divine through psionic talent instead of faith."

vs

"a blending of the faith and holy powers that would be bestowed upon one so devout is instead altered by the psionic nature of the recipient into a wholly new form of power - neither divine nor psionic."

It's roughly the same thing. Divine Minds had psionic power and used it to fuel their god-given abilities, Pious Blades have psionic power and use it to fuel their god-given abilities.

It's also a huge problem that the archetype requires a god (and has alignment restrictions/can lose powers) at all, because, again, psionics is defined by coming from within. This isn't "my faith changes how I view my power," this is just "my god gives me aid." If it was the former, that'd be great. You could run a character whose faith truly changes their abilities, tempering the internal psionic power through belief and maybe some extra help from a higher power or ideal... But this isn't it. It's just as bad as requiring Paladins to worship gods. Deities are not and should not be the end-all and be-all of divine energy, especially in a subsystem whose fluff is defined by pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Personally, Pious Blade is my favorite archetype displayed so far for the Soulknife, including already released ones.

[tekevil]

It seems pretty clear cut to me that a Pious Blade has 2 power sources

Internal (Psionic)
-Blade Skills
-Soul Weapon

External (God Granted through faith and prayer)
-spells
-Blade vows

Also whats wrong with requiring a God and worship? Some people like to make religous characters. It's not a downside. Also it is completely and totally different from whatever that 3.5 class was.

Lastly, so what if this is PrC fodder? This is Pathfinder not 3.5, so it's more convenient that it's an archetype.

[Vhaidara]

Also whats wrong with requiring a God and worship? Some people like to make religous characters. It's not a downside.

Some people don't like having a god on their religious characters (religion != a god). People who do like having a god can have a god, but as it is written now, those who do not want to have a god do not have that option. It is a restriction upon the fluff that does nothing meaningful to enhance the game (like alignment restrictions on Monk, Barbarian, and Bard)

[Lord_Gareth]

Lastly, so what if this is PrC fodder? This is Pathfinder not 3.5, so it's more convenient that it's an archetype.

And this is DSP, not Paizo. We make PrCs where it's more appropriate to do so.

[tekevil]

Some people don't like having a god on their religious characters (religion != a god). People who do like having a god can have a god, but as it is written now, those who do not want to have a god do not have that option. It is a restriction upon the fluff that does nothing meaningful to enhance the game (like alignment restrictions on Monk, Barbarian, and Bard)

So something like the text in the Domain class feature text from Cleric which lets you choose an ideal would be all you need then?

[Ssalarn]

So something like the text in the Domain class feature text from Cleric which lets you choose an ideal would be all you need then?

That's kind of what I was thinking; just allow the archetype to believe in an ideal instead of a deity.

In rereading it, I have to agree that it seems pretty clear the archetype has two component power sources, one psionic and one divine, so I don't think the Divine Mind comparisons are all that accurate. You've got a psionic character who amplifies his innate abilities with divine help, and the divine and psionic components are pretty clearly delineated. Also, people probably wouldn't have flipped so much about the Divine Mind's fluff if it hadn't been attached to a crappy class. I thought people hated it because it was the psionic equivalent of the Soulborn more than because it had fluff about deities opening up worshippers minds instead of granting them spells.

[Prime32]

What if Pious Soul became a feat chain? The first feat grants you a Faith Blade, the second grants a Vow. That should make it more clearly a separate thing from your psionic abilities.

[Vhaidara]

I actually favor that because of the weird way archetype stacking works: Vows would be considered a change to Blade Skills, which would block compatibility with War Soul (but not Gifted Blade). Likewise, it can't be matched with any of the other archetypes (which modify your mind blade).

One of my favorite things with Soulknife is the way that their archetypes pretty much fall into 2 categories: Blade Shape and Steroid. Blade Shapes (Deadly Fist, Soulbolt, Nimble Blade, Armored Blade, Shielded Blade) determine what you use, while Steroids (War Soul and Gifted Blade) determine how you use them effectively.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I actually favor that because of the weird way archetype stacking works: Vows would be considered a change to Blade Skills, which would block compatibility with War Soul (but not Gifted Blade). Likewise, it can't be matched with any of the other archetypes (which modify your mind blade).

Wouldn't that be an optional change, making it still stack? Similar to Qinggong Monk or Hexcrafter Magus.

[Vhaidara]

Doesn't Qinngong have a callout that it still works? I haven't looked at hexcrafter, but I remember there was some combination I wanted to take that was illegal because they both added options to the customization feature.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Qinggong was mentioned in FAQ as being compatible as compatible with archetypes. Hexcrafter doesn't have such language either. If an archetype were to explicitly say that it modifies the customization feature then there would be some other argument, but as is all this does is give an optional addition to the feature. Technically speaking, Blade Vows are an additional feature on top of Blade Skills.


Edit: Pious Blade could work as a prestige class, allowing soul knives / any full divine caster into an interesting theurgic option. That said, unless it worked well theurging with paladin I'm just not sure if I'd like it. The reason why I like this has a lot to do with the flavor of archetype, but also its access to the litanies and other swift/immediate action spells that make Paladin as versatile as it is, and I'd absolutely hate to lose out on that. A theurge... well, it seems like it couldn't be balanced for all 3 spell progressions.

[Extra Anchovies]

So, um, why are Blade Vows not just Pious Soul-exclusive Blade Skills? Because that's pretty much what they are.

The Psychic Armory sounds very much like the concepts that have been discussed for the Pharaoh (link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409134-Dreamscarred-Press-Presents-Akashic-Mysteries-Thread-2&p=19494015&viewfull=1#post19494015)). Any thoughts regarding this similarity?

Is Veilwoven Spearman actually going to have interesting class features, or is it just going to be able to apply enchantments and blade skills to the Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light? That might be tricky to balance (I think it's an intentional design decision that LPSoL doesn't get enhancement bonuses or weapon abilities from essence), and it feels really bland. All of the good akashic archetypes (Snake Charmer, Swarm Master) take a veil and do something legitimately interesting with it, instead of just tacking a veil on. Since Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light isn't a particularly complex veil, I don't know if there's much that can be done with the veil as the centerpiece of an archetype.

[tekevil]

To be honest I liked the akashic shield idea more. We already have a myriad of ways of doing cool hitting stuff with a Soulknife, so an archetype to protect your allies and such would be a welcome addition to the Soulknife roster.

[Powerdork]

Also, people probably wouldn't have flipped so much about the Divine Mind's fluff if it hadn't been attached to a crappy class. I thought people hated it because it was the psionic equivalent of the Soulborn more than because it had fluff about deities opening up worshippers minds instead of granting them spells.

Those deities closing the minds back up after they've already opened them is the most interesting thing I've seen, Idunno about you.

[Ssalarn]

Those deities closing the minds back up after they've already opened them is the most interesting thing I've seen, Idunno about you.

I don't know, gods with close-minded worshippers sounds pretty par for the course :P

[Powerdork]

I don't know, gods with close-minded worshippers sounds pretty par for the course :P

Cheap wordplay's nice, but the issue stands: Are the gods really capable of doing this? Are they doing this?

[Nyaa]

Cheap wordplay's nice, but the issue stands: Are the gods really capable of doing this? Are they doing this?

But that was clever wordplay (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/clever-wordplay).

[tekevil]

As fun as it is to watch people argue over the internet, I don't really think it's appropriate to argue about an old 3.5 class in a playtest thread for Pathfinder. The only connection, that it involves a Divine+Psionic hybrid of sorts, is at best a loose connection to the actual contents of this thread.

In more relevant news, I finally looked over the Rage Blade. Also semi-rambly since it's late.

The example given for the Brutality blade is incorrect

For example, a 7th level brutality blade with a normally +2 keen mind blade using this ability on his mind blade would be able to add +3 to his enhancement mind blade class feature (increasing this from +3 to +6 effectively),
compared to


At 5th level, a brutality blade increases this enhancement bonus to his mind blade by two instead of one. At 10th level, he increases this enhancement bonus to his mind blade by three; at 15th level, by four; at 20th level, by five.

In the example the 7th level Brutality Blade is doing what a 10th level character should be doing. Additionally I think the example should be saved for after the ability description, it reads better that way.


As for balance I believe that the class doesn't need two steroids. I think that going above the enhancement cap is a perfectly fine and unique design choice, but stacking it with Raging Surge is unnecessary. I'd have to test it, but I don't think it's as game breaking as everyone worries. Though it can be stacked with powerful archetypes like the War Soul and Gifted Blade, so perhaps having Rage Blade replace Psychic Strike and scale from level 3 would work best?

-Body of Rage: It's cool, but it taking a Standard action at tenth level is kind of saddening. It's not part of a crazy reach build since we're talking light weapons, so making it a swift action even at a cost like Psionic focus wouldn't be game breaking.

-Hand of Hatred: Seems ok on its own, but I have a problem with Raging Surge and Rage Blade being stacking steroids.

-Fountain of Blood: First sentence seems wacky.

-Rend the Body: Well I was suggesting Rage Blade replace Psychic strike, so I don't know how to discuss this skill.

-Destroyer's will: Perfect.

Overall I like the rage blade and don't see the big hullabaloo surrounding it. At most I think it's a bit over tuned and maybe going over enhancement cap can have some crazy rules interaction that I am not expecting. Though I don't really see how it breaks things.

Instead of enervation I think it would be cooler if you had a chance of hurting yourself for every turn you keep your Rage Blade out. I currently imagine a rage blade as shifting a lot more than a normal mind blade, with spikes, razors, studs, and barbs poking out in response to a tumultuous sea of emotions. Maybe even shards shooting off from the rage blade. Thus if control isn't fully maintained it would be very easy to harm yourself in combat from poky bits coming out into your hands, hooks getting caught on your flesh when you swing, or sparks/shard imbedding themselves in your flesh.

That would feel like a real cost for the increase in power someone would experience with this archetype if you decide to keep Psychic Strike.

[ErrantX]

New stuff posted. There are some new blade skills, some edits to some existing ones. Posted feats, including a combat style, and the Psychic Armory. I've not touched Pious Soul and Brutality Blade yet but those are pending some reviews. I've begun discussions with Ssalarn and Psybomb on Akashic archetype.

-X

[meemaas]

So far, two complaints about the feats.

First, Deadly Imbuement is a weaker version of the Reaper's Blade blade skill. I can see absolutely no reason to use it, except at a lower level in which it would be retrained the moment Reaper's Blade comes online.

Secondly, Swift Imbuement is pretty much mandatory for any Soulknife using Psychic Strike. It's by and large a massive improvement from the default options, with no downside.

Edit: Forgot about this while complaining. Love the Psychic Armory.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I love the Psychic armoury, it looks really, really fun. I think there should be a Blade skill that gives you concealment (maybe scaling) against ranged attacks while you have the Panoply of blades active, I mean a swirling mass of weapons should make difficult to target the guy inside it.

Psychic Fortress needs to note what type of action it is (I'm guessing immediate) and I think Panoply drive could let you choose other type of areas or t least a cone. Maybe letting the Psychic Armoury to choose what area he wants when he selects the blade skill, and allow them to select the blade skill more than once?

[Mehangel]

Bladeskills:

Power Reserve: Thankyou very much for fixing that.

Psionic Training: Its great, if a nimble gifted blade wasn't Tier 3 before, it definitely is now.

Psychic Platform: I can see alot of use with this bladeskill both in combat and out of combat.

Psychic Strike: At first glance, I wasn't sure how I felt about this, but after some calculations and build-theory, I have determined that it is fine, awesome, but fine.

Feats:

Cloak Dancer's Waltz:
Alternately, you may perform a cloak dance as a full round action you may move up to your base speed while gaining total partial concealment. Is it supposed to be Total Concealment, Concealment, or Partial Concealment (if that is even a thing)?

Critical Imbuement: I love it, one of my previous soulknives liked critting, this just made the build that much easier.

Swift Imbuement: Again, this makes it so that the Soulknife is more mobile than before, no more needing to choose between regaining psychic strike or advancing upon the enemy.

[ErrantX]

So far, two complaints about the feats.

First, Deadly Imbuement is a weaker version of the Reaper's Blade blade skill. I can see absolutely no reason to use it, except at a lower level in which it would be retrained the moment Reaper's Blade comes online.

Secondly, Swift Imbuement is pretty much mandatory for any Soulknife using Psychic Strike. It's by and large a massive improvement from the default options, with no downside.

Edit: Forgot about this while complaining. Love the Psychic Armory.

Glad you like the Armory! Also - if those are the only complaints then those are ones I can live with. Swift Imbuement is totally there to bandage psychic strikes if you plan on keeping it to keep it viable. It's definitely the redheaded step child of the class to turn a phrase, and this sort of thing can keep the damage rolling. Deadly Imbuement is there because Reaper's Blade is decent, but it can't wait til level 10 to come online either.


I love the Psychic armoury, it looks really, really fun. I think there should be a Blade skill that gives you concealment (maybe scaling) against ranged attacks while you have the Panoply of blades active, I mean a swirling mass of weapons should make difficult to target the guy inside it.

Psychic Fortress needs to note what type of action it is (I'm guessing immediate) and I think Panoply drive could let you choose other type of areas or t least a cone. Maybe letting the Psychic Armoury to choose what area he wants when he selects the blade skill, and allow them to select the blade skill more than once?

That's not a bad idea for blade skill. I'll see if I can get that written up and added today.

And thank you for the feedback on the other skills, Dusk. Appreciated! :)

-X

[Extra Anchovies]

Hold up.

The psychic armory forms a myriad of blades around her body to encircle her loosely, orbiting over and around her in shiftless patterns.

Did... did you just make me want to play a Soulknife???

Yes, yes you did. (https://youtu.be/Y4REfVDtqo0?t=2m10s)

Like, come on. This archetype is Penny, and if you say otherwise you're lying.

ETA: Okay, it's also some other characters. But among them is Penny.

Things:
1. It doesn't list the level at which you can form two-handed blades.
2. Being forced to take Two-Handed Throw is kind of... very bad. The only thing you get out of it is a slightly larger damage die. Is this an intentional handicap?
3. Panoply Drive is really cool, but I feel like it should be less spammable than it currently is. It also feels like the sort of thing that would expend psionic focus, so maybe that could be a thing? It still lets them use it every round for maximum laz0rs, but they'll be a stationary turret when doing so.
4. I have the same concerns about Swirling Panoply as I do about Panoply Drive (it should expend psionic focus), and the former is also in a shape that is more conducive to hitting every enemy at once. Maybe restrict it to centering the effect on the Psychic Armory? It also doesn't have a stated action to activate, which should be standard.
5. At what level do they get Swift Panoply?
6. Why is the Enhanced Mind Blade progression slower than normal? I don't see this class having a higher damage output than Soulbolt (which no longer holds the title of Mega-Man thanks to the Adaptive Gunner Marksman, btw), and Soulbolt gets the full progression.
7. Is there some way that we could get increased range increments on the panoply? Being stuck with 20 feet really bites.

Overall, though, it's hella cool and lets thrown weapons actually work. Thank you. I'll see if I can get this into a playtest game sometime soon.

ETA: Going by the video, Penny apparently has 28 Wisdom (ten blades). Huh.

[Prime32]

Psychic Platform seems too complex for a blade skill, and the positioning of the HP/hardness makes it sound like it can only be damaged if you choose to let gravity affect it. Also it's a little disappointing that it's a swift rather than immediate action.
EDIT: And despite requiring a blade skill that lets you expend psychic strike instead of psionic focus, you can't expend psychic strike to create a platform?


The psychic armory forms a number of blades equal to 1 + her Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1) of each kind of mind blade (light and one-handed forms at 1st level; and two-handed forms ) as a move action.And two-handed forms what?

I'm not seeing the connection between Cloak Dancer's Style and soulknives; at least, I can't see why it has Mind Blade + Psychic Strike as prereqs. Gaining psionic focus should be the default benefit, with a Special entry for "if you have the psychic strike class feature". Also, Cloak Dance isn't a psionic feat, so the name should somehow allude to the style's psionic nature.

Imbuement of the Phantom Weapon lets you carry dozens of weapons and charge them all with psychic strikes.


You may treat the mind blade or mind bolt as a member of the thrown category, and your levels in soulknife count as marksman levels when determining your favored weapon bonuses.Should be "your mind blade or mind bolt always counts as a thrown weapon for your Favored Weapon class feature"?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I actually though of a Golden armoured king when I first read the archetype.

[Chimmon]

Does the Psychic Strike bladeskill give you a psychic strike of +1d8 damage, or does it progress as the class skill raising in power, but with an additional +1d8 damage? One is strictly better than the Powerful Strikes bladeskill, but the wording seems to indicate that's how it is.

Psychic Enervation seems at odds with the Rageblade's other mechanics. Due to the rather severe penalty of ending your rage (btw, why is it 5 times longer fatigue than a Barbarian, plus no psionic focus - seems overly harsh), and the ability to only quickdraw when raging @level 5 - it seems that you want the Rageblade to only rage when needed. That means that when the chips are down, and you start to rage... you have a 15% of being stunned, dropping your blade, losing your focus, and becoming fatigued and un-focusable for 1 minute. That's like a sick joke. Perhaps change stunned to dazed, so you don't drop all your held items. Even then, I'm not sure I'd like that gamble.

I love the Psychic Armory! Very Fate/Stay Night Gilgameshesqe. :) How does Enhanced Armory work with additional blade forms? Such as from Mind Daggers or something like Emulate Melee Weapon (though I notice they can't take that one). How about a Psychic Armory bladeskill like this:

Spread Panoply - As a Full-Round action a Psychic Armory can spread out their Panoply in a radius around themselves. This effects a burst around the Psychic Armory equal to 10 ft + 5 ft/four class levels. Enemies treat this area as difficult terrain, and the Psychic Armory may make attacks of opportunity as if she threatened every square in the burst. During the turn the Psychic Armory activated this effect, she may make an additional number of attacks of opportunity equal to her Wisdom modifier.

Why isn't Cloak Dancer's Style a prerequisite for Cloak Dancer's Retribution/Waltz? Do the two of them stack, allowing you to recover your focus and your psionic strike?

Swift Imbue is great. Especially now that so may archetypes are giving up Psychic Strike. Now there's a good reason to have it (or pick it up with a bladeskill).

[Mehangel]

Does the Psychic Strike bladeskill give you a psychic strike of +1d8 damage, or does it progress as the class skill raising in power, but with an additional +1d8 damage? One is strictly better than the Powerful Strikes bladeskill, but the wording seems to indicate that's how it is.

I read it as follows:

o Only a soulknife without Psychic Strike may gain the Psychic Strike Blade Skill.
o Gaining the Psychic Strike Blade Skill only grants the +1d8
o However, a soulknife with the Psychic Strike Blade Skill may take the Powerful Strikes Bladeskill for an additional +1d8 (so total of 2d8).

I do not read this as it gives you the full psychic strike progression of the soulknife.

[meemaas]

Glad you like the Armory! Also - if those are the only complaints then those are ones I can live with. Swift Imbuement is totally there to bandage psychic strikes if you plan on keeping it to keep it viable. It's definitely the redheaded step child of the class to turn a phrase, and this sort of thing can keep the damage rolling. Deadly Imbuement is there because Reaper's Blade is decent, but it can't wait til level 10 to come online either.


I still dislike Imbuement as written because it's strictly superior. The base soulknife can expend focus to do the same thing, so you're simply killing the cost.

My suggestion is to change the cost with the feat. Rather than just removing it, make it something easier to pay (1pp as a swift action?) Or add in a clause that makes the cost a limiter that's only temporary (when you expend focus to charge psychic strike, you can regain your focus as a free action upon dealing damage with psychic strike)

As for Deadly Imbuement, I simply don't like that it's a weaker version of an already existing Blade Skill. My suggestion for that is to add a bonus if you possess both. Maybe something along the lines of "If you also possess the Reapers Blade blade skill then increase the damage bonus for already having a psychic strike charged to two times the base amount.

[Forrestfire]

Given that psychic strike us an absolutely terrible and mostly useless ability and you could probably give it to them on every attack without breaking anything, it kinda makes sense to provide a band-aid patch to the thing. It'd be nicer if they just fixed it with an errata to the base class, but this isn't a perfect world.

[Deadkitten]

Since the Psichic Armory is compatible with the War Soul, It can still emulate other weapons with the Discipline Blade Shape Blade skill.

Psichokinetic combat should probably let you qualify for feats that have those as prerequisites.

Also Panoply Barrage seems absolutely terrifying. My gut reaction is that it is too strong even at 10yh level.

[Nyaa]

Psychokinetic Throw range/increment?
Why is Enhanced Armory progression slowed? What can it do that Soul Archer PRC can not?

[Chimmon]

Why is Enhanced Armory progression slowed? What can it do that Soul Archer PRC can not?

Imagine the party is going out into goblin/orc territory. The Psychic Armor grants his light blades goblin-bane, and his one-handed swords orc-bane, leaving his 2H enhancements something more generic. Unlike a regular Soulknife, he doesn't have much of an opportunity cost of customizing his enchantments for the more common mobs he might encounter. Even beyond that, he can have one with a lot of damage bonuses for easy to hit monsters, and another focused on getting + to hit for high AC mobs.

It's his inherent versatility in selecting enchantments that warrants slowing down his total.

[Extra Anchovies]

Imagine the party is going out into goblin/orc territory. The Psychic Armor grants his light blades goblin-bane, and his one-handed swords orc-bane, leaving his 2H enhancements something more generic. Unlike a regular Soulknife, he doesn't have much of an opportunity cost of customizing his enchantments for the more common mobs he might encounter. Even beyond that, he can have one with a lot of damage bonuses for easy to hit monsters, and another focused on getting + to hit for high AC mobs.

It's his inherent versatility in selecting enchantments that warrants slowing down his total.

That's not enough to make the loss worthwhile, especially because of how effing terrible the range increments are on anything more than a light weapon, and also how the archetype is locked into what is probably the worst possible blade skill at level 2.

[Chimmon]

That's not enough to make the loss worthwhile, especially because of how effing terrible the range increments are on anything more than a light weapon, and also how the archetype is locked into what is probably the worst possible blade skill at level 2.

They get to throw in melee, and can choose what to throw whenever they want. I see the Two Handed Throw as their melee option. If they want range, go with light blades. Or if you really want ranged, go with Telekinetic Bolt. That gives you 6 different soulknife setups that you can use whenever you want (depending on Wisdom I guess?). Having your Soulknife enhancement being lower is a high price to pay, but it's only +2 less. I'd be willing to pay it (along with the blade skill tax), but I can understand others not wanting to.

[Deadkitten]

Another tidbit: are you considered to be weilding the Panoply of Blades?

Because War Souls who trait or tradition for primal fury might be able to combine martial throw mindblade with the Frenzy strike maneuver for some nasty damage as early as 7th level.

I might be missing something though. I'm looking at all of this by phone.

[Kaidinah]

I was wondering.Is there a chance at a sidebar explaining how soulknifes interact with Inherent Bonus Progression (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/automatic-bonus-progression)

Blade Skills:
Telekinetic Athleticism: Would the feats granted actually count as feats for the purpose of psionic body?

Archetypes:
Also Psychic Armory is just amazing! I am in love with these mechanics. Am I interpreting this correctly? A psychic Armory with 18 wisdom forms 5 light blades, 5 one-handed blades, and 5 two-handed blades? Very very handy if so, especially if you go into TWF and grab rapid shot. You don't ever have to worry about having enough one-handed and light blades to throw if so. Panoply Barrage seems a bit powerful though. It effectively grants 2 full-attacks at a -2 penalty.

Feats:
Blade of Terror is COOL! Only problem is a lot of terrors rely on Dread level for saving throws.

Pattern Blade might become problematic when combined with a Psychic Armory, getting a lot of free entangles on everything it touches. Even better if they use TWF to really throw out the entangles.

Improved Psychic Strike will do some silly damage with the aforementioned Panoply Barrage.

The Cloak Dancer's Style line has a few possible glitches and a lot of skill prerequisites. I don't think it needs the knowledge (psionics) prerequisite especially with Psionic Meditation requiring 4 autohypnosis ranks. Cloak Dance also requires 7th level, due to requiring 7 ranks in stealth. A Soulknife won't even be allowed to take the 1st style feat until 9th level due to this. Also, was Psionic Meditation meant to be a prerequisite to the 1st style feat? Because it is not listed as one. Cloak Dancer's style already recovers your Psychic Strike/Psionic Focus upon using the dance, so half of the Waltz feat does not do anything. Does the Cloak Dancer's Retribution refer to the full-round dance, or the move action dance? Because that seems too strong for a move action.

Swift Imbuement completely changes the usefulness of psychic strike. Its basically a requirement for all psychic strike using soulknifes to take. Not saying that is a bad thing however, as I feel this feat helps regular soulknifes catch up a bit.

All in all, the feat section provides a variety of ways to do cool things, multi-class, and even get psychic strike recovered in a more reasonable manner.

[Sayt]

Improved Psychic Strike on top of Knife to the Soul/Devastating Blade seems.....Problematic. "What's that, I just shore off ten points of your con score in one round?" Actually, lets do some theoryhammer....

A level 16 character has 4d8 Psychic Strike damage. Powerful Strikes adds another for 5d8. Devastating strike turns that into 10 points of ability damage. With an intelligent selection of which score, this could just take someone out of a fight if they have a dump-stat, at cost of 4 blade skills.

Throw in Improved Psychic Strike and that can easily be 20 ability damage. Throw in TWF line and this could get silly, quick.

Is this excessive, or have I calibrated 'reasonable' too low for a level 16 character?

Edit:
This seems to be a problem of multiple blade skills, taken on their own to not be hugely problematic, but combined together get quickly out of hand.

Potential Solutions:

Nix Improved Psychic Strike: I really don't like this one, I'd like to take this on quite a few builds
Put a save for half ability damage at (10+wismod+1/2 SK level) on Devastating Blade. Gives a chance at mitigation, keeps the expansion into physical scores and allows the potential for big damage.
Disallow the use of use Psychic Strike Substitutions on a round you use improved Psychic Strike: Probably the most clunky, but also my favourite, oddly?

[Mehangel]

Throw in Improved Psychic Strike and that can easily be 20 ability damage. Throw in TWF line and this could get silly, quick.



Re-read Knife to the Soul, you can only use the blade skill once per round. It doesn't matter how many psychic strikes you have, you can only use it once per round.

[Sayt]

Re-read Knife to the Soul, you can only use the blade skill once per round. It doesn't matter how many psychic strikes you have, you can only use it once per round.

Oh, well, that solves it pretty well. Missed that condition in the block of text on the mobile site. Reservations abandoned! Futureproofing Success!

[ErrantX]

I'm going through an addressing your feedback in my document before copying it to the live doc, much appreciated.

In the meantime, I'm going to shelve Pious Soul for now - the reason is two-fold. One, it's kinda controversial and its opening a bag of worms that I didn't intend to open with divine/psionics stuff that Divine Mind kinda @#$@ all over in 3.5. The baggage we all have to carry, I know. And secondly, it intrigued me enough to consider further investigation into the idea as a separate product - the soulknife book is NOT where I want to explore this kind of stuff. It will be replaced with another forthcoming archetype here.

One thing I wanted to address, brought up by Kaidinah, is that until I'm told differently by my superiors, we're not building with Unchained in mind as it is purely designed to be an optional set of rules changes and variations. I've actually gone out of my way to NOT look at it. That's impossible to design against that kind of variety, so I we're just not planning on it. YMMV when it comes to Unchained rules used with DSP stuff.

I'll be updating the doc shortly. Is there anything anyone is specifically looking for feat wise, traits(!!), or other such shenanigans?

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

I'll be updating the doc shortly. Is there anything anyone is specifically looking for feat wise, traits(!!), or other such shenanigans?

-X

The ability to summon a second mindblade with the dancing property!

[ErrantX]

The ability to summon a second mindblade with the dancing property!

I could see that easily a panoply armory tactic, maybe as a blade skill for general use. Hmm... that's one to think about. Just don't wanna step all over TK Weaponmaster.

-X

[Nyaa]

traits

Obligatory +2 levels of enhanced mind blade, up to HD, that activates once you have said enhanced mind blade class feature?

[Ilorin Lorati]

Obligatory +2 levels of enhanced mind blade, up to HD, that activates once you have said enhanced mind blade class feature?

Already in there.

How about a trait that lets you add a weapon special to the list of ones available? I'm not really sure how it would affect balance, but theoretically it wouldn't be anything major - just an increase in flexibility.

[Mehangel]

How about a trait that lets you add a weapon special to the list of ones available? I'm not really sure how it would affect balance, but theoretically it wouldn't be anything major - just an increase in flexibility.

I was just about to suggest this. There are so many great weapon specials (both magical enhancement or mundane) that having a trait/feat for this is almost screamed for. Perhaps a trait for a mundane weapon special, and a feat for a magical weapon special.

[Extra Anchovies]

The thing is, if there is even one weapon special ability that shouldn't be on a mind blade, a trait to add one weapon special ability to the list is a bad thing. Sure, that one special ability could be called out as not applicable, but that's a band-aid fix that would become irrelevant the next time an unbalanced-or-otherwise-unsuited-for-mind-blades ability is printed.

The list of available weapon properties is there for a reason - because only certain abilities should be available to a mind blade. If you allow a way to get another property on the list, you might as well not have the list at all, because there's likely to be only one off-list property that a certain build needs.

[Forrestfire]

If anything, the one weapon enhancement that shouldn't be on the list is already there—Lucky. By RAW, each time you're form your mind blade, you're making a new one, which would allow you to drop it and quick draw another on every attack, giving you effective Advantage on every strike.

The list is also the thing that makes mind blades overall worse than someone with a normal weapon outside of very niche circumstances, so... It's probably something worth having a trait to expand that. It's not likely to break anything that isn't already broken.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I honestly don't see why the Soulknife used a whitelist anyways, except that there are a few specials that don't make sense (such as the Lord_Gareth mentioned Dancing) and as such aren't on the base list. I suggested the trait as a manner of future proofing - even if the special list is expanded to include everything that was released after Ultimate Psionics, there's going to be more made - and quite a few made by other developers that may be in use in a given game that the DSP devs don't (and shouldn't have to) worry about.

[Extra Anchovies]

How do Mind Daggers interact with Psychic Armory? Does it let us overcome that awful 20-foot range increment?

For that matter, how would Lucky and other X/day weapon properties interact with Psychic Armor? Would they get to use the Lucky property 1+Wis times per day?

Why does Deadly Imbuement need to exist? We already have the Reaper's Blade blade skill.


The list is also the thing that makes mind blades overall worse than someone with a normal weapon outside of very niche circumstances

...no? It's free, it scales to +9 or +10, can't be lost or destroyed, and you can change up the weapon enhancements from day to day. There's a case to be made for the Black Blade of a Bladebound Magus being more powerful (being able to change weapon enhancements several times per day is nice, but it can be lost or destroyed), but a Mind Blade is definitely better than a physical weapon.

I'm going to ask in the DSP FAQ about Lucky on a mind blade.

Ilorin makes a good point - a trait that lets you add properties to the list leads to wacky stuff like Dancing mind blades.

Also, @Ilorin: Soulknife uses a whitelist for the same reasons that a Magus or Warpriest do - balance.

Besides, why not just ask your DM if you can add a property to the list? If you aren't trying to break the game you should get it okayed, because your DM is already the sort to allow third-party content.

[Forrestfire]

Well, it's not free. A mind blade has a massive opportunity cost: levels. By having a mind blade, you're giving up the possibility of other class features. A psychic warrior with a greatsword is going to outfight a soulknife almost every time, just by the power his powers give. Initiators from Path of War will do it as well. In addition, it can't be hit with greater magic weapon to make it stronger (unless you keep the mind blade up at all times), and the items you're getting in exchange for a weapon's WBL cost probably don't make up for the cost of the levels you had to invest, unless you're using cross-class UMD and partially-charged wands to get ahead.

[Mehangel]

Just so others understand, when I said a trait to give a mundane weapon special, I was talking about weapon specials such as monk, brace, etc.

I suggested that a feat be used to gain magical weapon specials such as bane, ki focus, etc.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Isn't there a Blade Skills that already does this?

[Extra Anchovies]

Just so others understand, when I said a trait to give a mundane weapon special, I was talking about weapon specials such as monk, brace, etc.

There's already a blade skill for that; it's called Weapon Special.


I suggested that a feat be used to gain magical weapon specials such as bane, ki focus, etc.

That would be fair. Might need to have a "with DM approval" clause or some other way of cutting out the silly stuff like Dancing.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Also, @Ilorin: Soulknife uses a whitelist for the same reasons that a Magus or Warpriest do - balance.

Magus (10) and Warpriest (9-11) both have a very limited list made up almost entirely of pure offense specials. The Soulknife (46) one takes up nearly a whole column and is not limited in such a way.

Seriously, in terms of scale you're comparing a cereal cabinet with a kitchen - and then saying that the kitchen is limited because they don't want the cereal to taste good.

You'll be hard pressed to convince me that either of those are true - I'd wager magus and warpriest seem to be limited because their special abilities are built with a specific purpose: magus being offense and warpriest being to evoke being a warrior of a given type of god.

[Extra Anchovies]

The Soulknife is a class built entirely around the mind blade, hence the larger list. The fact that its list is longer doesn't change the fact that there are probably weapon properties the class should not have access to, or at least should not have easy access to. A feat is sufficient cost for adding a weapon property to the list.

[Mehangel]

There's already a blade skill for that; it's called Weapon Special.

Yeah, except that the weapon special blades kill only includes 3 choices out of the 15 currently on the pfsrd.

[Dusk Eclipse]

In that case the blade skill itself should be expanded, introducing a trait for that isn't the right approach IMP

[Ssalarn]

Yeah, except that the weapon special blades kill only includes 3 choices out of the 15 currently on the pfsrd.

You can also take a blade skill to turn your mind blade into any specific weapon, so you have access to pretty much any property you want +some.

[Ilorin Lorati]

A feat is sufficient cost for adding a weapon property to the list.

At which point most of your argument


The list of available weapon properties is there for a reason - because only certain abilities should be available to a mind blade.

is moot, and we're just talking about relative cost per power. I don't think spending a whole feat to get the ability to spend another, even more limited resource, is a fair trade.

[Extra Anchovies]

At which point most of your argument

In case you hadn't noticed, I have since clarified and refined my point. In fact, I did so in one of the posts you quoted, which you would have noticed if you had read any part of my post except the last sentence.

The Soulknife is a class built entirely around the mind blade, hence the larger list. The fact that its list is longer doesn't change the fact that there are probably weapon properties the class should not have access to, or at least should not have easy access to. A feat is sufficient cost for adding a weapon property to the list.

[PsyBomb]

Here's the thing, I don't see dancing as being an illogical or overpowered choice, other than for Deadly Fist for obvious reasons. I'd be all in favor of abolishing the whitelist entirely, if certain ground rules are in place (like the Mind Blade always counting as the same weapon no matter how many times it is formed).

[Ilorin Lorati]

I stand by my point.

[Forrestfire]

Yeah. As fun as the exploit with Lucky is, the sane ruling would be to get rid of that interaction entirely (and then go back to buffing the class, because it really needs the help).

[Mehangel]

You can also take a blade skill to turn your mind blade into any specific weapon, so you have access to pretty much any property you want +some.

True, and this is actually what I have been doing most of the time, but it doesn't make possible some combinations, of which aren't even particularly powerful (nonlethal, trip, monk) or (performing, disarm, monk)

[Ilorin Lorati]

In case you hadn't noticed, I have since clarified and refined my point. In fact, I did so in one of the posts you quoted, which you would have noticed if you had read any part of my post except the last sentence.

I stand by my point. Your argument visibly changed, even if on your end it's a clarification. We essentially disagree on the power:cost ratio, and I also disagree that traits are any easier to come by than feats - especially with the category limitation on them.

[Extra Anchovies]

I stand by my point. Your argument visibly changed, even if on your end it's a clarification.

Yeah, it did. Sometimes I change my mind about stuff. I hope that's not a problem, because it shouldn't be.

Regardless, we have more important things to discuss, like the Psionics Augmented: Soulknife playtest :smalltongue:


We essentially disagree on the power:cost ratio,

Indeed. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, because there are no equivalent abilities to compare to. The closest thing is the Gnome Magus FCB, but that isn't adding to the whitelist from the entire set; it's adding to the whitelist from another whitelist.


and I also disagree that traits are any easier to come by than feats - especially with the category limitation on them.

Traits are much easier to come by than feats, because everybody gets two of them for free and you can get two more traits for every one feat you give up. So traits are twice as easy to acquire as a single feat is (slightly more than that, because of the free ones at 1st level), albeit in a sort of clunky way.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Traits are much easier to come by than feats

Except you can only have a single trait in a given category, and since presumably this would be going into the Psionic category it would be competing with Psychoportive Talent and Psionic Knack.

[Extra Anchovies]

Except you can only have a single trait in a given category, and since presumably this would be going into the Psionic category it would be competing with Psychoportive Talent and Psionic Knack.

Soulknifes don't even have a manifester level for Psionic Knack to increase, and there are much better things to spend your immediate/swift actions and/or psionic focus on than Psychoportive Talent.

[Kaidinah]

Soulknifes don't even have a manifester level for Psionic Knack to increase, and there are much better things to spend your immediate/swift actions and/or psionic focus on than Psychoportive Talent.Psonic Knack would be for multiclassing. Just like the trait for +2 mind blade levels.

[ErrantX]

Brutality Blade and Psychic Armory have been updated with responses today. Brutality Blade especially is all new.

Also, let me derail this current conversation. I cannot change the original soulknife or any of the blade skills there-in. I can only add, not change. I don't have that luxury, so theorizing is about as far as this goes.

-X

[Ilorin Lorati]

Soulknifes don't even have a manifester level for Psionic Knack to increase, and there are much better things to spend your immediate/swift actions and/or psionic focus on than Psychoportive Talent.

Gifted Blade is probably the single most common archetype for a single-classed Soulknife, and while I'll agree that in most situations Psychoportive Talent isn't a game changer, you'll be hard pressed to find a better trait when you're using it. Seriously, it's a 5-foot step that you can take off-turn and doesn't prevent further movement.


Oh, a caster is 5 feet away trying to shove a spell down your throat? NOPE.
An enemy just confirmed a x4 crit on their attack? HAHANO.
You can't afford to run through an enemy's reach for whatever reason? Cool beans.
You're just short of the bad guy? No problem!

[Kaidinah]

Brutality Blade and Psychic Armory have been updated with responses today. Brutality Blade especially is all new.

Also, let me derail this current conversation. I cannot change the original soulknife or any of the blade skills there-in. I can only add, not change. I don't have that luxury, so theorizing is about as far as this goes.

-XI am still not sure about the Brutality Blade. Rage Surge is an enhancement bonus and has no duration listed. Psychic Enervation is listed multiple class features before Rage Surge, but as far as I can tell Rage Surge is the only way to activate Psychic Enervation. Also, should their Psychic Enervation class feature get wording to count their levels as wilder levels for the purposes of enervation? Otherwise they cannot take Evervation Fortitude (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/enervation-fortitude-psionic). At this point, I think the enhancement bonuses should be turned to morale bonuses, and the numbers should be decreased.

Also, I wanted to point out the Cutthroat Soulknife archetype trades out Psychic Strike for Sneak Attack, and you might want to consider it for the proposed Black-Brother prestige class.

[Ssalarn]

True, and this is actually what I have been doing most of the time, but it doesn't make possible some combinations, of which aren't even particularly powerful (nonlethal, trip, monk) or (performing, disarm, monk)

Seems like the real issue then is access to the performing or monk qualities, yes? Basically every other combination is possible. Performing is an alternate subsystem ability, so I think it's primarily left out because it won't even be used in many (I daresay most) campaigns, and monk is only relevant on a multiclass character who wants to use Flurry with a two-handed weapon. They may not be supported, but do they need to be? Soulknives already have distinct WBL advantages, so they can more readily use the Bribe option to affect performance checks, and he already has options like Twin Strike, Dual Imbue, and Full Enhancement to help with TWF, as well as the Flurry of Fists line of options.

[ErrantX]

I am still not sure about the Brutality Blade. Rage Surge is an enhancement bonus and has no duration listed. Psychic Enervation is listed multiple class features before Rage Surge, but as far as I can tell Rage Surge is the only way to activate Psychic Enervation. Also, should their Psychic Enervation class feature get wording to count their levels as wilder levels for the purposes of enervation? Otherwise they cannot take Evervation Fortitude (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/enervation-fortitude-psionic). At this point, I think the enhancement bonuses should be turned to morale bonuses, and the numbers should be decreased.

Also, I wanted to point out the Cutthroat Soulknife archetype trades out Psychic Strike for Sneak Attack, and you might want to consider it for the proposed Black-Brother prestige class.

Fixed enhancement bonus to morale bonus like Barbarian, fixed the info in raging surge to work with enervation and the text for enervation for use with rage blade. Added wording to count as wilder's enervation that should allow for enervation feats.

Is the enhancement bonus buffs to Str and Con the deal breaker? If so I'm happy to reduce them.

-X

[Chimmon]

The Rageblade's enervation and potential downsides are now much nicer. :)

It's sad so see their enhancement progress reduced, especially since having a super-powerful weapon via Manifest Rage Blade was kinda their previous "thing". Mechanically, the Raging Surge makes up for this, and makes them more like a Barbarian. Would it open up to big of a can of worms to let them take a rage power as a bladeskill? I don't know if there are any potentially broken interactions there.

I'm confused about their Raging Surge. It says they can invoke it when manifesting a rage blade, and is maintained while the blade is manifested. It then says it lasts for 1 round. I'm guessing this is a typo from copying text from the wilder.

The Psychic Armory loss access to Mind Daggers, the best throwing form. :(

Until Telekinetic Bolt came along, which they can still get! :)

Increased Range further removes the need for that (yay!), but it's nice to have options.

Panoply Eruption is a thing now!!

[Extra Anchovies]

Again: Why is the Psychic Armory locked into Two-Handed Throw at 2nd level? It's an awful pick for that archetype.

Psychic Armory + Telekinetic Bolt lets us have a bunch of floating guns. There's some anime character who does that (I've seen them referenced on this forum multiple times before), but I forget who. Telekinetic Bolt also happens to be a Blade Skill tax for the Psychic Armor, because they can't get Mind Daggers.

Can a Psychic Armory with Telekinetic Bolt create a mix of ranged and melee weapons?

Thank you for giving us the Increased Range Armory Tactic. I'm glad that my feedback on Panoply Drive and Swirling Panoply was helpful.

Also, Panoply Eruption is really cool. Taking that one for sure when I get a chance to try this archetype out.

[Doomeye56]

Again: Why is the Psychic Armory locked into Two-Handed Throw at 2nd level? It's an awful pick for that archetype.

Psychic Armory + Telekinetic Bolt lets us have a bunch of floating guns. There's some anime character who does that (I've seen them referenced on this forum multiple times before), but I forget who. Telekinetic Bolt also happens to be a Blade Skill tax for the Psychic Armor, because they can't get Mind Daggers.

Can a Psychic Armory with Telekinetic Bolt create a mix of ranged and melee weapons?

Thank you for giving us the Increased Range Armory Tactic. I'm glad that my feedback on Panoply Drive and Swirling Panoply was helpful.

Also, Panoply Eruption is really cool. Taking that one for sure when I get a chance to try this archetype out.

I dont see how you would get a bunch of guns with it. and the Increased Range skill seem more of a tax (I really dont feel it is) then TK Bolt is.

[Extra Anchovies]

I dont see how you would get a bunch of guns with it.

TK Bolt lets you form ranged weapons. Psychic Armory lets you form 1+Wis weapons. Psychic Armory + TK Bolt lets you form 1+Wis ranged weapons.

At least, that's how it seems to work.


and the Increased Range skill seem more of a tax (I really dont feel it is) then TK Bolt is.

Yeah, I typed out the first chunk of my post before noticing Increased Range.

[Sayt]

Again: Why is the Psychic Armory locked into Two-Handed Throw at 2nd level? It's an awful pick for that archetype.

Psychic Armory + Telekinetic Bolt lets us have a bunch of floating guns. There's some anime character who does that (I've seen them referenced on this forum multiple times before), but I forget who. Telekinetic Bolt also happens to be a Blade Skill tax for the Psychic Armor, because they can't get Mind Daggers.

Can a Psychic Armory with Telekinetic Bolt create a mix of ranged and melee weapons?

Thank you for giving us the Increased Range Armory Tactic. I'm glad that my feedback on Panoply Drive and Swirling Panoply was helpful.

Also, Panoply Eruption is really cool. Taking that one for sure when I get a chance to try this archetype out.

I think you're talking about Mami from PMMMMMMM? (or however many Ms)

At any rate, I really love the Psychic Armoury, and I'm giving serious thought to playing one next time my group does a "Broken Planar Obelisk" Game (As in, get sent through to find funny stuff).

My main concern is that it's a little too SAD, getting Wis to hit and damage, and being the number of blades. The only other stats you really need are Con, for the same reason as everyone else, and dexterity, for ranged to-hit feats.

I'd possibly go down to +1/2 wis to hit as an insight bonus or something, and retain Dex to hit. Still pretty strong, but not as SAD.

Secondary question, can Psychic Armouries Two-weapon Fight with their panoply? Can they Multi-weapon fight?

Also, had an idea for a blade skill, which is basically just "Full round action, expend focus, make an attack with each blade in your panoply at a -5 to hit. Req's Armoury level 8~"


Also, thinking about it, is Psychic Armoury compatible with War Soul?

[Deadkitten]

Are you considered to be wielding all of the mindblades of the panoply at the same time?

[tekevil]

Unless I'm mistaken it seems the Raging Blade only gets the strength bonus for one round per combat?


At 4th level, brutality blade channels his emotions into a physical boost of energy that strengthens his body. A brutality blade can invoke a raging surge when manifesting his rage blade, and this surge is maintained while the rage blade is manifested. The brutality blade gains a +4 morale bonus to his Strength for one round after invoking a raging surge. At 8th level, the brutality blade also gains a +2 morale bonus to Constitution during a raging surge.

The points I got out of this are
-When you manifest your Rage Blade you may also manifest a Surge
-Said Surge is maintained for the duration you hold that rage blade
-You gain the str bonus for one round after invoking your surge

Since dismissing your Rage Blade fatigues you, essentially you only get to invoke a surge ones throughout the combat and thus only get the str bonus for one round?


Also I still believe Body of rage doesn't need to be a standard action.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I think you're talking about Mami from PMMMMMMM? (or however many Ms)

http://i.imgur.com/XQkYgNW.png

Edit:

I'm a little sad at the loss of Pious blade, but the potential for more content like it in a later supplement is good news to me.

I'm incredibly happy to see my suggested feat being in the list, and a Gifted Brutality Blade taking that feat is now high on my list of things I wanna be when I grow up characters I want to play. I don't get why people are still saying it's too strong - the default tier is a weaker soulknife, and their strong point is only somewhat improved but is per-day limited and dangerous.

Back to feat feedback (since this is what I really care about P:): the only thing that seems to be missing from Brutal Surge is potential interactions with Raging Surge, but that's hardly a necessary point.

[wooper]

I really love the Psychic Armory and I feel that it should already work very well mechanically. Some stuff should probably be cleared up wording-wise and be made more transparent in general, like whether or not you can TWF your panoply, and whether or not it interacts with Rapid Shot and stuff.
Though I'm a little let down by the capstone, I think it's a great archetype.

[SaintNick]

I noticed that Psychic Armory can be taken with War Soul. How would Psychic Armor interact with Discipline Blade Shapes?

[Kaidinah]

I noticed that Psychic Armory can be taken with War Soul. How would Psychic Armor interact with Discipline Blade Shapes?
"The following blade skills are not available to a psychic armory: Alter Blade, Deceptive Blade, Discipline Blade Shapes..."
It doesn't interact. Though I know you can use maneuvers on the thrown mind blades. I don't think the mind blades count as disc weapons without a feat however.

[Forrestfire]

Now, to actually be on-topic instead of just a random hater of one of the archetype concepts, I went and read through the doc. I really like what I saw :smallbiggrin:


The swift action mobility blade skills are really neat; the pseudopounce is a good way to get your full attacks in, and I love the fact that the spammable tactical teleportation doesn't eat your turn to do it. Cleave Space is cool enough that I am considering grabbing soulknife in a gestalt game entirely for it. Devastating Blade is an awesome lategame nuke for psychic strike users, and Dispelling Strike is great utility. Mindflayer's save or daze is pretty great, although it's a bit of a shame that it targets the strongest monster save (probably good, though, because otherwise it'd be really strong). However, I wish that Mindflayer allowed you to use it with normal mind blades (and Augmented Blade), instead of forcing the whip form. Psychic Net seems underwhelming compared to the other blade skills, since it's a 1st-level power on a blade skill. Psychic Platform is really neat, although I have no idea how strong it is. Psychic Strike is something I'm glad exists as a blade skill, since the more fun archetypes for soulknife normally lose it, and it's necessary for many of the interesting blade skill abilities. Psychic Toolkit feels incredibly underwhelming if that's meant to be a list of all things it can be. I'd just make it turn into masterwork tools of any skill, and let them skillmonkey a bit. Stunning Blade is neat, but I might consider kicking it down a few levels to be closer to the monk's ability to stun.

Tactile Telekinesis is something for which I have no idea what it does, since checking d20pfsrd gives me nothing. Telekinetic Athleticism is okay, but the feats it gives aren't really great (jumping scales really badly, even with high bonuses to the checks). Telekinetic Blade and Telekinetic Bolt are both neat, since it lets you get versatility you'd normally not have. I also like Telekinetic Edge, since things with DR are annoying, and it's useful for carving through walls. Finally, Telepathic Blade is awesome, but the name feels off, since it doesn't have anything to do with the blade.

Overall, I like the blade skills. However, I'm not a fan of how many of them require the use of psychic strike. It means that in order to get them, you need to either be a non-Gifted Blade (which in some circles is considered almost mandatory for a soulknife to be viable) or to eat a blade skill to get psychic strike. In addition, it means that using them means either eating your turn doing very little of value, or spending another feat (or having buff rounds before a fight). Psychic strike isn't a great ability, and while it's awesome that these make it useful, it's also a shame that they inherit its baggage. With the Swift Imbuement feat, though, they become awesome. Dispelling Strike is something I'd like to use against buffing mages (especially from the DM side of things).



http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74477/4227070-ronan-charging.jpg
I really like this archetype. The concept of someone augmenting, rather than generating, their weapon with psionic power is fairly neat and I'm glad to see it be a thing. Psicrystals are pretty cool and have useful effects, as well. I like that it's effectively the ability to swap between weapons, smacking your gem into it when you want your soulknife abilities, and using the weapon as normal otherwise.

I'm not a fan of them losing out on blade skills for weapon training. Trading the ability to get more versatile and unique abilities for a boring +numbers ability is pretty underwhelming. As a player, I think it'd be a lot better if it was the ability to choose this at 6th/12th/18th level in place of a blade skill, if you want; increasing the bonus by +1 each time you take it as normal.

Overall, neat archetype. I like the concept a lot. I probably wouldn't take it in a game unless the DM allowed me to not take weapon training (or take less of it), since the blade skills are cool and +numbers is significantly less so.



If I'm reading this right, the rageblade works similarly to a normal mind blade and scales slightly faster, but the Brutality Blade's normal mind blade is weaker when not a rageblade? If so, neat. It's an interesting tradeoff.

I really don't like the 15% chance of losing your turn every time you start a fight. That's needlessly frustrating when it goes off and doesn't add anything to the game, and the archetype doesn't get the sort of power boost that a Wilder does. None of its abilities warrant the risk of losing the most crucial turn in a fight, much less a random chance of it happening. That sort of thing makes or breaks a combat in Pathfinder, and I see it causing a lot of issues.

The Wrath Augments are mostly really cool. The expansion one is pretty neat, although it sucks that it eats a standard action to do it when normally someone of this level would be able to Swift-augment it. Fountain of Blood is underwhelming, because 2-10 bleed damage is incredibly weak, especially considering it can be healed as normal. Hand of Hatred is a powerful ally buff if you time it right, Raging Euphoria is some nice attack bonuses, Rend the Body is amazing, and so is Surging Assault. I like the Wrath Augments overall.

Raging Surge is pretty cool and strong, but the increase of your chance of losing a turn and possibly dying as a result increasing to 1/4th isn't very fun. I would consider making Raging Surge cause the daze chance, and normal rageblades not doing it at all, reducing the numbers correspondingly.

Instantaneous Wrath confuses me as to why it's not just a free action. The rageblade isn't strong enough to warrant eating your swift action (compared to a Swift Imbuement or boost or other ability); what am I missing here?

Wrath Perfected is pretty cool, if situational. The ability to not get dazed came about 19 levels too late, though.



https://animedigression.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/1_6.jpg
http://img.shendu.com/forum/day_101230/10123019056fa9cbcef789adda.jpg
http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-fd-1c/adam_eve_expert/folder/154541/32/16150032/img_0

I love this thing. Pretty much all of it, not much to say. Well, I agree that Two-Handed Throw shouldn't be something it's forced to get, but instead a side note that it's required to throw two-handed Panoply weapons. If someone wants to toss around knives, there's not a lot of reason to require them to be able to toss around greatswords, after all.

I would play this. Am planning on playing this, probably. Nice job with it. I especially like Panoply Counter and Panoply Drive as abilities, since off-turn and blasting are some of my favorite things. Blasting + competence in other areas to make up for when it's not useful is pretty much my holy grail.



This gets its own section because I think it's a really great thing to do for the soulknife. As you've said, you can't change the soulknife, but this sort of thing is a nice sidestep for many groups, giving a clear indicator of where the RAI lies regarding Gifted Blade being a rules patch for the soulknife. This is probably my favorite thing in this document.



First-off, I really like Deadly Imbuement and Swift Imbuement. Reducing the action cost on psychic strike is one of the two big things needed to make it a viable choice on most characters (the other is making it do useful things, which your blade skills do, so that's awesome). These feats are badass, and Swift Imbuement is probably necessary on most soulknives, but it feels like a necessary patch of a feat, so that's not really a problem with it.

The cloak dance line is interesting; I like that you can regain psychic focus while defensively protecting yourself with it. Improved Psychic Strike is really nice to have; another feat in the line of "make Psychic Strike suck less," which is something I like. How does this one interact with the blade skills that eat your psychic strike? Imbuement of the Phantom Weapon is neat if you're for some reason not using a mind blade, but probably situational and not a great feat to take unless there's something good to weild in someone's specific campaign. It's nice to have the option, though.

I feel like Metapsionic Knife should be a standard action, since mobility is important to have, and delivering a touch power through an attack roll is strong, but not strong enough to compete with full attacks in most cases. I don't have much to say about the multiclass feats, since I'm not too familiar with the classes they multiclass with.

Lastly, I like the trait. It's neat to allow some dips to exist (especially into initiators and PrCs).


Overall, I am a fan of this, and plan on buying it when it comes out. I think the most important thing in the doc, and my favorite part, is the sidebar about Soulknives in campaigns with people who know what they're doing. It pushes the class up towards the tier 3/high tier 4 sweet spot, and makes me want to actually play the class. I look forward to seeing everything else that shows up.

[Sayt]

I just had an idea for a feat: When you use Metapsionic Knife/Do the Dark Templar thing, reduce the damage on the Psychic strike by xd8 to increase the DC of the power by X

[tekevil]

Personally I think Rage blade would be more interesting as a mechanic to damage you per turn and have Raging surge give you vulnerability to Rageblade self damage.

[Nyaa]

Cloak Dancer’s Style can be taken at level 3... if not for Cloak Dance prerequisite that can't be taken until level 7.
Waltz doesn't do anything? I can already take a move action to gain concealment and another move action to, well, move. Why does Waltz suddenly require Psionic Meditation while Style does not?
Why does Style even have mind blade and psychic strike as prerequisites?

[Dusk Eclipse]

https://animedigression.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/1_6.jpg


http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/typemoon/images/0/07/GOB_fate.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100110142500


http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130829145613/villains/images/a/ab/0cc71930fa6b2c7a02cfdc9560885e51.jpg


I love this thing. Pretty much all of it, not much to say. Well, I agree that Two-Handed Throw shouldn't be something it's forced to get, but instead a side note that it's required to throw two-handed Panoply weapons. If someone wants to toss around knives, there's not a lot of reason to require them to be able to toss around greatswords, after all.

I would play this. Am planning on playing this, probably. Nice job with it. I especially like Panoply Counter and Panoply Drive as abilities, since off-turn and blasting are some of my favorite things. Blasting + competence in other areas to make up for when it's not useful is pretty much my holy grail.
[/SPOILER]



While I admit I also thought about good ol'Gilgamesh at first once I gave it more thought to the Psychic Armoury I couldn't help but think of 5th War Archer, it does needs some refluffing though, and sadly you won't be making stupidly long snipes, but one can't have everything

Go War Soul alongside Psychic Armoury. Your discipline of choice will be Solar Wind, Tempest Gale, Thrashing Dragon and of course Sleeping Goddess. Pick up, Increased Range, Distil Panoply and Panoply Barrage and you are set as far a blade skills go, though Focused Offence works wonders to reduce MADness. You also need a way to get 9th level maneuver, but Advanced Study and/or prestige classes also work (if you are in a high-psionic campaign and get "free" Gifted Blade, go Awakened blade and never look back).

Why those choices? Panoply Barrage+Full round strike (like say Dragon Assault)= Linked Crane Wing
Tempest Gale & Solar Wind maneuvers: Archer's plethora of modified swor... I mean arrows.
Sleeping Goddess, Battle in Dreams is pretty much Unlimited Blade Works, seriously the first time I read the maneuver I almost couldn't avoid chanting "I am the bone of my Sword" :smallbiggrin:

[ErrantX]

Made some tweaks and updates to the archetypes. No TK Bolt on Psychic Armory but I'm throwing Mind Daggers back to you. That's the big one. I'm satisfied I think with them as they are now, barring weird disaster. Moving on to the next section *fingers crossed*

One thing that keeps coming up - Two Weapon Fighting on the Panoply. With the myriad of things that makes the panoply do its job plus no AoO in melee and such, no, I don't want you to be able to Two Weapon Fight with it because its too much too good. You're not actually wielding the weapons, you're sitting still in a chair doing your nails while you murder people with mind blades that fly around you. I don't have a problem with Rapid Shot, but... how do I word this? I could really use some help from you all to get the wording right.

-X

[Dusk Eclipse]

You mean on base Armory right? If you do spend a Blade Skill in Distil Panoply you still get to TWF right? Please don't take Archer from me :smalleek:

[ErrantX]

You mean on base Armory right? If you do spend a Blade Skill in Distil Panoply you still get to TWF right? Please don't take Archer from me :smalleek:

That's fine! Distill the Panoply and two-weapon fight to your heart's content, I just don't want to do two weapon fighting on the ranged attacks that form the basis of the panoply.

-X

[Nyaa]

What makes people think Psychokinetic Throw is compatible with TWF? As I read it now it doesn't even allow iteratives.
2H throw is still a tax. It should be given for free and Increased Range should take its place, or be given out for free too.

[ErrantX]

What makes people think Psychokinetic Throw is compatible with TWF? As I read it now it doesn't even allow iteratives.
2H throw is still a tax. It should be given for free and Increased Range should take its place, or be given out for free too.

Nothing I wrote stated you didn't get iterative attacks at all, actually. I am not sure where you get that impression. Is there some wording that you feel I could add to clarify that you DO in fact get iterative attacks? That's intended. That'w why you have all those weapons floating around - they're available for throwing and you never have to touch them to do it.

Please recheck the document before you start crying taxes, Nyaa. :smallcool: Two-Handed Throw was folded into Psychokinetic Combat as a freebie at level 2, and you can start taking armory tactics as low as 2nd level.

-X

[Dusk Eclipse]

Question about Mind Daggers; what do you mean by " if the Mind Daggers blade skill is selected, these are added to the her panoply of blades."?

Do you get two daggers alongside your 1+wis mod of light, one-handed & two handed weapons? Or do the mind daggers replace the light ones?

[ErrantX]

Question about Mind Daggers; what do you mean by " if the Mind Daggers blade skill is selected, these are added to the her panoply of blades."?

Do you get two daggers alongside your 1+wis mod of light, one-handed & two handed weapons? Or do the mind daggers replace the light ones?

Neither.

You now have Mind Daggers floating inside your panoply, 1+Wis mod worth of them. It's incredibly important to understand that anything that gets added to your panoply is NEVER in your hands unless you're using Distill Panoply.

-X

[Chimmon]

Is the reason for not allowing Telekinetic Bolt (along with Emulate Melee/Ranged Weapon) for the Psychic Armory because that would grant them too many forms? With Mind Daggers + Improved Range the Psychic Armory can out-range nearly anything (well, not quite since it's a thrown weapon so only 5 range increments, which means a composite longbow still has a higher max). I'd love to have a PA that has access to Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, Anarchic, Brilliant Energy, and various elemental swords to use as applicable. Or to distill a bow or gun for... style I guess?

The PA has a nice SAD going on, which is nice because all soulknives can achieve that with Focused Offense, and the PA has soooo many bladeskills to choose from already. (And they become STR dependent if they want to use Distill Panoply and Panoply Barrage - which has enough raw power that it's worth it.)

Speaking of PA bladeskills, how about one that lets you use Panoply Eruption at the same time as Swirling Panoply (or perhaps Panoply Drive)? Bombarding an area with blades that stay around and hamper all the poor souls within. Possibly with a prerequisite skill that lets you use Panoply Eruption at range first.

On the Brutality Blade: 10% (or 20%) is an acceptable risk I think. I envision a Gifted Brutality Blade manifesting a power, then quick drawing his rage blade in the first round of combat. It costs a round of rage, but ensures you never lose an action. It also limits your custom rage skills that key off of psychic strike.

Fountain of Blood is also a potentially devastating blade skill since it's bleed effect stacks. Against targets without access to healing, it could get nasty. Or it could do nothing against the number of foes that are immune to bleeding, have regeneration, fast healing, or a cleric around. A really swingy skill.

Hand of Hatred now lasts for as long as the Rage Blade does. THAT is a reason to surge. Better than a bard.

[Nyaa]

Nothing I wrote stated you didn't get iterative attacks at all, actually. I am not sure where you get that impression. Is there some wording that you feel I could add to clarify that you DO in fact get iterative attacks? That's intended. That'w why you have all those weapons floating around - they're available for throwing and you never have to touch them to do it.
Probably because mind blade dissipates after using Throw Mind Blade and iirc you couldn't get more than two of them before Psychic Armory.


Please recheck the document before you start crying taxes, Nyaa. :smallcool: Two-Handed Throw was folded into Psychokinetic Combat as a freebie at level 2, and you can start taking armory tactics as low as 2nd level.

Oops :smallredface: Doc's too fast for me.
Psychokinetic Combat doesn't mention it explicitly though? Only Psychokinetic Throw does.


Some blade skills (Panoply Drive, Swirling Panoply) work off class levels. Shouldn't they be changed to effective Enhanced Mind Blade levels?

[ErrantX]

Probably because mind blade dissipates after using Throw Mind Blade and iirc you couldn't get more than two of them before Psychic Armory.



Oops :smallredface: Doc's too fast for me.
Psychokinetic Combat doesn't mention it explicitly though? Only Psychokinetic Throw does.


Some blade skills (Panoply Drive, Swirling Panoply) work off class levels. Shouldn't they be changed to effective Enhanced Mind Blade levels?

I'll add in some wording I guess. I just figured with a metric TON of blades floating around, you'd be ready to rock.

Oops, that's what I meant. Thow, not Combat. :smallredface:

Hrm... maybe. Yeah... I don't like it but it screws you if you PrC and take those. I dunno, anyone else wanna weigh on in the those blade skills being enhancement bonus or class level based?

-X

[Mehangel]

Hrm... maybe. Yeah... I don't like it but it screws you if you PrC and take those. I dunno, anyone else wanna weigh on in the those blade skills being enhancement bonus or class level based?


Well, looking at Ultimate Psionics page 348. The only way to have the bladeskills continue to scale is if:

A) The abilities are based off of the enhancement bonus of the blades.
B) There is a multiclass feat that allows for X class to count as Soulknife levels when determining power of bladeskils (i.e. 'Fighter's Blade')
and/or
C) The prestige class specifically calls out that it stacks (such is the case with Dark Tempest).

I would recommend not using the enhancement bonus, it can become very clunky if done improperly.
Adding a feat may help and might be a decent bandage for the situation.
As for prestige classes, sure, some are nice and fancy, but there will always be prestige classes that wont get the support they need. But for the most part, Soulknife is one of the few classes that you dont need to multi-class out of, and if you choose to multi-class out of it, you have to understand that you will be giving up a couple things.

So to summarize, probably add a generic multi-class feat (with Fighter's Blade as a prerequisite feat) that allows the player to choose X class and count that class as Soulknife levels for determining bladeskill effects.

[Chimmon]

I don't think a feat tax is the right way to go. Prestige classes already have that, and while I love stuff like Practiced Manifester it always feels bad to take "required" feats (much better as traits). Rather, change the wording to be like: "1d6 per class level that advances your soul knife". Since the worrisome part is only on certain blade skills, just adjust their wording.

[Aubreykun]

Cleave Space is horrifically broken, allowing the Soulknife to travel at nearly 41 miles per hour. How? It's simply the cost and that there's no limit per day. It can be used to escape from combat with anyone who has no ability to travel 200ft +20ft per the soulknife's level per round, with the soulknife still having a move action left over. The next round can be used to focus, and then jump away again.

More crazily, this can be done, at level 8 to go 400ft + 320ft = 720ft per 2 rounds, or 3,600ft per minute, or 216000 ft per hour which equates to just under 41mph. At level 12 this becomes 50mph. A Wizard at 9th level gets the ability to potentially cast Overland flight, which goes at 40ft per round, or Teleport which requires familiarity with the area and has a chance of error. And both are limited-use.

Psychic platform doesn't state any sort of strength check or amount of weight/force needed to move the stationary one (immovable rod functionality? Free Magic Item!), how much the platform weighs when it's affected by gravity, how much weight the sticky version can hold (if placed on the edge of a cliff, for example), and so on.

The Archetypes' excluded lists of Blade Skills is wonky, but stating "anything but these is permitted" is just as bad as "anything but these are disallowed" - this opens up holes in future publications to where the authors forget to exclude or include specific blade skills for a specific archetype. I don't have a perfect fix for this other than creating a tag for each's permitted Blade Skills (like how feats have the Combat tag) and even that doesn't seem like it's worth doing for a single archetype if more archetypes with restricted lists will be included later.

(EDIT: Typoes and clarifying that the blade skill lists apply to more than the one archetype, as I went back and realized it was for more than one.)

[Mehangel]

Cleave Space is horrifically broken, allowing the Soulknife to travel at nearly 41 miles per hour. How? It's simply the cost and that there's no limit per day. It can be used to escape from combat with anyone who has no ability to travel 200ft +20ft per the soulknife's level per round, with the soulknife still having a move action left over. The next round can be used to focus, and then jump away again.

More crazily, this can be done, at level 8 to go 400ft + 320ft = 720ft per 2 rounds, or 3,600ft per minute, or 216000 ft per hour which equates to just under 41mph. At level 12 this becomes 50mph. A Wizard at 9th level gets the ability to potentially cast Overland flight, which goes at 40ft per round, or Teleport which requires familiarity with the area and has a chance of error. And both are limited-use.

I really dont want to see Cleave Space taken away, however, what if you are limited to a number of uses per day equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum 1)? This would allow for potentially multiple uses, but not nearly likely to break a game.

[Forrestfire]

Cleave Space is horrifically broken, allowing the Soulknife to travel at nearly 41 miles per hour. How? It's simply the cost and that there's no limit per day. It can be used to escape from combat with anyone who has no ability to travel 200ft +20ft per the soulknife's level per round, with the soulknife still having a move action left over. The next round can be used to focus, and then jump away again.

More crazily, this can be done, at level 8 to go 400ft + 320ft = 720ft per 2 rounds, or 3,600ft per minute, or 216000 ft per hour which equates to just under 41mph. At level 12 this becomes 50mph. A Wizard at 9th level gets the ability to potentially cast Overland flight, which goes at 40ft per round, or Teleport which requires familiarity with the area and has a chance of error. And both are limited-use.

I'm having difficulty seeing how this is a problem, let alone being horribly broken. Overland movement is a useful ability to have, and escaping from a fight is something that's normally almost impossible in Pathfinder. Overland flight is slower overland, but a significantly stronger ability in combat, because it can be used to hover or otherwise stay out of range. In addition, teleport is a lot better than you seem to be making it out to be. With some prep time through scrying, teleportation is the most reliable means of transport and bypasses any hazards and problems you'd have to deal with along the way, in addition to bringing the whole party with you. Being limited-use isn't relevant when you only need one. And one level after the soulknife gets the ability to hop at an average of 50 mph, the wizard and other casters get the ability to travel 1,300 miles or more in a single standard action, without having to have ever even been to a place, with no chance of error. The abilities can't really be compared.

You're vastly overestimating how powerful overland movement is; if anything, it's a good thing that the soulknife with it can hop across the landscape at a decent clip, because it opens up more plot possibilities. It's not flight, and it's not instant teleportation, so encounters on the way can and probably will happen (and the soulknife would be alone and have to deal with it as such).


I really dont want to see Cleave Space taken away, however, what if you are limited to a number of uses per day equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum 1)? This would allow for potentially multiple uses, but not nearly likely to break a game.

I also don't agree that it should be limited to a per-day use. Unless you have it accessible enough times that the limit is functionally nonexistent (such as class level per day), it removes the ability to use the power as a both a utility ability and a combat power, which is a very bad thing. This ability requires eight levels in a class and two of your permanently-chosen blade skills. That's a very high cost for for a powerful tactical teleportation and travel tool. Cleave Space is probably fine as it is. If the main concern is overland travel, then cutting its distance slightly is the answer, not removing half of why it's a good ability and limiting its uses to the point where it's just another combat tool.

[Nyaa]

How does Panoply interact with metaphysical weapon? Crystalline foci?
It would be nice to make Improved Snap Shot work with Panoply.
I suppose it works with Deadly Aim, not Power Attack?

[Mehangel]

I also don't agree that it should be limited to a per-day use. Unless you have it accessible enough times that the limit is functionally nonexistent (such as class level per day), it removes the ability to use the power as a both a utility ability and a combat power, which is a very bad thing. This ability requires eight levels in a class and two of your permanently-chosen blade skills. That's a very high cost for for a powerful tactical teleportation and travel tool. Cleave Space is probably fine as it is. If the main concern is overland travel, then cutting its distance slightly is the answer, not removing half of why it's a good ability and limiting its uses to the point where it's just another combat tool.

I want to agree that it should not be limited to a per-day use, but if it came down to either nixing the ability or making it per-day, I would in a heartbeat choose per-day. However, I can also see instances where long range teleportation at-will can make the gm's job difficult, which is not a good thing. Now true, this bladeskill is only available at level 8, which means that Psions can have access to this particular power one level before the soulknife, so multiple castings of the power should be prepared for. In addition, fold space being a 4th level power means that it can be enchanted into a dorje and have a considerable number of uses.

I suppose my main thing is, I want the soulknife to stay within the Tier 3-4 range, so if comparing something to wizard and showing that a Tier 3-4 class can do something better than a Tier 1 class, something is wrong. But I do not want the Cleave Space bladeskill to go away, and I am willing to sacrifice its at-will ability to be replaced with per-day or even per-encounter if necessary.

[Forrestfire]

Well, it's also not really long-range teleportation. It can be used for overland travel, but its utility is limited because it takes time to do so. This sort of ability is within the bounds of tier 3. If it was spammable teleport I'd say it's horrifically broken, but it's not. It's a slightly better dimension door on a class that needs the help to bring it up to parity with the other strong-but-not-broken classes.

If given a choice between removing it and making it a per-day thing, I'd also agree with a per-day thing being better. I think that the third option of not nerfing it, or nerfing it in a way that reduces how fast it can travel (halve the distance, maybe; it's still a strong tactical teleport and can still be used for utility, but isn't running around at a car's average road speed), would be significantly better.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hm. Cleave Space is definitely a fun concept, and it finally gives the Soulknife something to do outside of combat for once.

Dimension Door at will is really strong though. Halving the distance is an interesting idea but would need a bunch of extra words. Maybe set a 1/X rounds limit? One use per 3 rounds would be fair, IMO.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Limiting it by rounds is probably my favorite option here. Another idea would be to reduce the distance on consecutive uses over a certain period, but that would end up taking more bookkeeping than is needed.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm of the idea to keep it like it is currently is, but then again I loathe to nerf things in general (yes, even casters).

[Aubreykun]

I'm having difficulty seeing how this is a problem, let alone being horribly broken. Overland movement is a useful ability to have, and escaping from a fight is something that's normally almost impossible in Pathfinder. Overland flight is slower overland, but a significantly stronger ability in combat, because it can be used to hover or otherwise stay out of range. In addition, teleport is a lot better than you seem to be making it out to be. With some prep time through scrying, teleportation is the most reliable means of transport and bypasses any hazards and problems you'd have to deal with along the way, in addition to bringing the whole party with you. Being limited-use isn't relevant when you only need one. And one level after the soulknife gets the ability to hop at an average of 50 mph, the wizard and other casters get the ability to travel 1,300 miles or more in a single standard action, without having to have ever even been to a place, with no chance of error. The abilities can't really be compared.

You're vastly overestimating how powerful overland movement is; if anything, it's a good thing that the soulknife with it can hop across the landscape at a decent clip, because it opens up more plot possibilities. It's not flight, and it's not instant teleportation, so encounters on the way can and probably will happen (and the soulknife would be alone and have to deal with it as such).



I also don't agree that it should be limited to a per-day use. Unless you have it accessible enough times that the limit is functionally nonexistent (such as class level per day), it removes the ability to use the power as a both a utility ability and a combat power, which is a very bad thing. This ability requires eight levels in a class and two of your permanently-chosen blade skills. That's a very high cost for for a powerful tactical teleportation and travel tool. Cleave Space is probably fine as it is. If the main concern is overland travel, then cutting its distance slightly is the answer, not removing half of why it's a good ability and limiting its uses to the point where it's just another combat tool.

If the GM is allowing players to simply bypass areas of exploration by allowing a caster to research enough for a teleport spell to hit a destination unerringly and safely, then of course this doesn't matter as much in that context. What this does affect is when destination areas are unknown or potentially unsafe. It allows the Soulknife to scout faster than most other forms of travel, scale mountains, cross an entire city by rooftop in a relatively short span of time, and back out if arriving near unfriendlies, without having a high level spell slot burned.
Consider that this can also be used to teleport into midair which can be combined with a relatively inexpensive feather falling ring to allow unlimited pseudo-flight, and it becomes even more silly. Suddenly the majority of terrestrial barriers are of no issue, save those that impose other environmental effects (which are also rather easy to bypass and ultimately both uncommon and visible from miles away.) Even in a dungeon, the ability to bypass any obstacle that you can see across or past in two rounds is incredibly frustrating for a GM's dungeon design workload.

Additionally, there's no risk that the soulknife teleports into an area they cannot observe as it requires line of sight. As this is not stated to be a psi-like ability, it also theoretically should function in areas where magic and/or psionics don't.

And finally, the Soulknife can bring other people with himself. Per the Fold Space power http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/f/fold-space :
"You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three manifester levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you."

Additionally, I think you're overestimating and grossly misremembering the abilities of Teleport. It is a 5th level spell, which while being undeniably useful also competes with many other spells in the same slot (such as Cloudkill, Contact Other Plane, Summon Monster V, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Feeblemind, Wall of Force, Magic Jar, Baleful Polymorph, Polymorph, Telekinesis...)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/teleport It also has far, far more restrictions on it than you presented. You can bring the same number of creatures with you as fold space, and you're not even guaranteed to be anywhere close to your destination, even with "Very Familiar". Off target at 1% of 900 = 9 miles away, at 1% of 450 is still 4.5 miles away. If the Off Target is rolled, you have an equal shot of being relatively close to your target as you do being way way off target. While still blowing a 5th level spell slot, versus simply using an unlimited-shot power which is both more reliable and safer, even if it's slower.

Edit: Misread the 1300 miles part, but the rest still applies.

[ErrantX]

How does Panoply interact with metaphysical weapon? Crystalline foci?
It would be nice to make Improved Snap Shot work with Panoply.
I suppose it works with Deadly Aim, not Power Attack?

1 - It doesn't, you'd be enhancing too many individual weapons. If you used distill panoply though, that'd work.
2 - I'll make a blade skill for it. Too complicated to try to figure out the feat stuff for it when snap shot is already kind of built in.
3 - Deadly Aim for ranged attacks, and Power Attack when distilled.


Well, it's also not really long-range teleportation. It can be used for overland travel, but its utility is limited because it takes time to do so. This sort of ability is within the bounds of tier 3. If it was spammable teleport I'd say it's horrifically broken, but it's not. It's a slightly better dimension door on a class that needs the help to bring it up to parity with the other strong-but-not-broken classes.

If given a choice between removing it and making it a per-day thing, I'd also agree with a per-day thing being better. I think that the third option of not nerfing it, or nerfing it in a way that reduces how fast it can travel (halve the distance, maybe; it's still a strong tactical teleport and can still be used for utility, but isn't running around at a car's average road speed), would be significantly better.

I'm largely not in favor of nerfing it's ability to be used - there's already enough moving parts without having to keep track of uses when NOTHING else in the class has a limit of uses. I'll re-examine the range of the ability. Reduction of the range would be acceptable I suppose, though not thrilling. The problem is is that between Dimensional Slide and Fold Space there is a HUGE swath of range that isn't covered. Otherwise I'll just make up something. :smallbiggrin:

-X

EDIT: Fixed Cleave Space. Added in some more language for the panoply to hopefully tighten it up so it's clearer as to off-hand attacks etc (READ AS: You can't TWF or whatever). Added a new tactic to armory.

[Mehangel]

I'm largely not in favor of nerfing it's ability to be used - there's already enough moving parts without having to keep track of uses when NOTHING else in the class has a limit of uses. I'll re-examine the range of the ability. Reduction of the range would be acceptable I suppose, though not thrilling. The problem is is that between Dimensional Slide and Fold Space there is a HUGE swath of range that isn't covered. Otherwise I'll just make up something. :smallbiggrin:

I have three further ideas:

A) Make the bladeskill mimic Dimensional Slide as a swift action. (This will be a huge nerf distance wise, but At-Will close range teleportation isn't broken; should probably decrease level requirement of bladeskill [otherwise people would just spend a feat into Spheres of Power for the same thing]).

B) Do idea A), but also include a second bladeskill that requires the Dimensional Slide bladeskill. Have this bladeskill do what Cleave Space does. By including a bladeskill tax, it makes it less desirable.

C) Make a new Psionic Power, Hell call it Cleave Space, give it to the Psychic Warrior (as a 3rd level power). Make it grant Medium Range (100ft + 10ft/level) teleporation. Then have the Bladeskill mimic said power.

[Extra Anchovies]

Why does Cleave Space require Combat Slide in the first place? They have almost nothing to do with each other.

I also really miss being able to take friends with you via Cleave Space. That's a big part of what made it a useful blade skill. Self-teleportation is only really useful in combat, and even then it's kinda limiting. The range reduction is good (probably easier to understand than 1 use per 3 rounds, and requires less bookkeeping), but a scaling "take allies with you" would be nice. One ally per 3 levels would be fine.


A) Make the bladeskill mimic Dimensional Slide as a swift action. (This will be a huge nerf distance wise, but At-Will close range teleportation isn't broken; should probably decrease level requirement of bladeskill [otherwise people would just spend a feat into Spheres of Power for the same thing]).

Yes, let's buff the Soulknife's combat power without touching its noncombat utility. This will fix the problems the class currently has.

Also, the availability of Spheres of Power is not a safe assumption.


C) Make a new Psionic Power, Hell call it Cleave Space, give it to the Psychic Warrior (as a 3rd level power). Make it grant Medium Range (100ft + 10ft/level) teleporation. Then have the Bladeskill mimic said power.

Or just implement Errant's current fix, which is a lot simpler and uses a heck of a lot less words.

[Aubreykun]

EDIT: Fixed Cleave Space. Added in some more language for the panoply to hopefully tighten it up so it's clearer as to off-hand attacks etc (READ AS: You can't TWF or whatever). Added a new tactic to armory.

Looks much better. I did realize that you could also add a note making it count as hustled movement, as this would give RAW precedence that would prevent it entirely from being used as solo overland travel while still allowing the utility of unlimited movement, escape, and other such things.

Reason being that a character can't hustle for more than 1 hour between sleep cycles without penalties. (See: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/movement )

This means that a Soulknife with this is can contribute the impressive maneuverability it provides while still being reliant on sticking with the party and more conventional modes of transportation - it's simply more efficient to take a horse to the next town rather than expend all that mental effort to get not quite as far. It also means that other, NPC soulknives in the GM's setting are generally bound by the same restrictions (as anything a PC can do, an NPC of the same class, level, and such can do too.)