Backstabing with style : A magical take in roguish territory

[Dezea]

Hey guy,

After lots and lots and loooots of years playing D&D, we switched recently to Pathfinder with my mate. I have always enjoyed the tricky character, full of malice and sneak...And magic. Because magic.

So, since we've started playing Pathfinder, I've played a Bard - Tons of fun, god I love this class - and a Priest full of dext with trickery domains and nets. A lot of nets. That was hellishly fun too, by the way.

Now, we are getting to another campaign, and I'm really looking for idea for a character of the same type, but not using the same classes. All pathfinder material is authorized, the only limitations is me not wanting to take one step too much in cheese territory.

Any idea of builds or even just concepts ? I'll be really curious to have your takes !

(On another topics, forgive my english, ain't my mother tongues)

Dez

[Dyllan]

Backstabbing with style? Sounds like you want Arcane Trickster.

It's pretty easy to get into now. You need three things: Ability to cast mage hand (easy, 0 level spell, you can even take a trait for that I). Ability to cast one 2nd level arcane spell (3rd level wizard, or SLA cheese) and 2d6 sneak attack.

That last one you can get in 1 level, 2 different ways.

A Kobold can take a feat, Merciless Precision, to get an extra 1d6 sneak attack against an opponent who has virtually any negative condition. That, plus a level in any class that gives sneak attack at first level qualifies you. Stack on your 3 levels of wizard and you're in at 5th level, and your casting progression is only 1 level behind a straight wizard (on par with a straight sorcerer).

Or, you can take a level in the Brawler hybrid class with both the Snakebite Striker archtype for 1d6 sneak attack and the Strangler archetype for 1d6 sneak attack when grappling. Those count as 2d6, getting you in.

If you want in sooner, you can choose any race that gives a level 2 arcane spell as a spell like ability. Recent rulings have determined that sla's count as ability to cast spells of that level. Personally, I find that cheesy, but it is legal. So a level 1 Brawler, level 1 Wizard, could then get into Arcane Trickster. Technically, a level 1 Brawler could go straight in, but there'd be no arcane casting to advance.

Of course, you could do sorcerer instead of wizard with the SLA trick, and still get in at level 3.

[stack]

How are you bypassing the skill requirements?

[Larkas]

I suggest taking a look at the inquisitor, the vivisectionist alchemist and the investigator. All take a different take on "roguiness", but can be quite fun to play. Also, see the red mantis assassin, it's not "3.5 assassin levels of good", but can still be nice.

Failing all that, take a look at the last link in my signature. :smallbiggrin:

[Dezea]

Hey, thanks for the answer !

@Dylan : It's pretty impressing to see how easily you can get into arcanne trickster with some cheesing ; o
I kind of didn't put much tought about Arcanne Trickster, since it was absolutely awful in 3.5, wich seems pretty different in Pathfinder, indeed !

Tho, I prolly won't go the kobold / brawler way, since it's a bit too milky for my taste...Is the trickster still good if you enter at level 7 ? And knowing that I don't expect our game to go much further than 9 or 10 level, is this still worth it ? (I guess the level 4 to 6 will be really sucky, right ?)

@ Larkas : I really liked the Alchemist, even if I guess you need some heavy optimization to make it really sneaky right ? The inquisitor could be a really fun concept to pull off too, but i'm a little bit unimpressed by the investigator : o

By the way, I really liked your take on rogue archetype !

[Larkas]

@ Larkas : I really liked the Alchemist, even if I guess you need some heavy optimization to make it really sneaky right ? The inquisitor could be a really fun concept to pull off too, but i'm a little bit unimpressed by the investigator : o

I wouldn't say "heavy", but it seems to me it needs some optimizing. I've never played it, but vivisectionist is pretty popular around these parts, I'm sure you can find a handbook or at least a fellow player to point you towards the right path!

Regarding the investigator, it is more of a "Sherlock-type" rogue. The class is pretty new, so I don't think there are any finalized handbooks, but keep your eyes peeled. It might not be your next rogue, but hey, it might be the next after that one! :smallsmile:


By the way, I really liked your take on rogue archetype !

Oh! I'm glad you liked it! :smallredface:

[Dezea]

Sudden twist : we might end up playing core only in fact : is the arcane trickster still okay without the early entry tricks ? Any other viable core options ?

[Psyren]

Does "core-only" mean you can take non-core archetypes with the core classes, or are you really restricted to the CRB for everything?

Your best bet if it's the latter is probably going to be Arcane Trickster.

[Dezea]

Yup, sadly anything not coming from the PHB1 is banned.

I really fail to be impressed by a level 7 arcane trickster entrance...
What is your opinion about a full dex sorcerer, going melee with weapon focus and transmutation buff ?

[Psyren]

PHB? Aren't you playing Pathfinder?

I would go Wizard so you still have a shot at 9ths, plus the high intelligence will help with your skillmonkeying.