3.5 Character Help

[CQCMerch]

Hey guys and gals,

I'm currently entering a DnD 3.5 campaign and I was wondering if you could help me figure out how to build a particular character.

I really want to play a character who is a leader of a large merchant company who uses his words and money to get stuff done. I was thinking of starting off as a bard, and having him do poetic talks instead of singing (because that is beneath him). He's supposed to be someone regal. I'm not too sure I want him to be a huge force in battle. I'm more looking to make him a support character who might be good in melee.

Keep in mind that this is my second 3.5 campaign and my fourth DnD campaign ever, most of them never got very far with each respective playgroup. So some abbreviations or lingo might be lost on me.

I am NOT allowed to use homebrew
I am allowed to use any source book (except for magazines) provided I have a copy or a pdf of it.

Thanks in advance!

[xkaliburr]

What books are available to you for character creation? And when you say not got in battle, but good in melee what do you mean?

Also, how optimized is your party you are joining?

[CQCMerch]

Currently, I have access to:

Players Handbooks 1 and 2
Draconomicon
Arms and Equipment Guide
Complete Adventurer/Arcane/Divine/Mage/Warrior
Heroes of Horror
Libris Mortus
Player's Guide to Faerun
Races of Faerun
Spell Compendium

I could always get more books, which is not a problem. As long as the classes/races aren't overly complicated.

As for battle, I'd like him to be fairly competent in melee but not a meat shield. Mostly, I want to be able to buff the party and then pull out my weapon and take on some of the weaker foes, letting the Barbarian, Monk and Cleric take the heavier things.

[Greenish]

Bard does sound like a good fit, though perhaps leaving the party a bit light on arcane magic (but you can live with that).

[WhamBamSam]

You can contribute a lot in combat with bardic music by using Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) to jack up your allies damage. You also will want Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting), and maybe Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds, though being a goody two-shoes may not fit your concept), and should pick Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium) as a first level spell known, and try to get your hands on few key items like a Vest of Legends (DMGII). This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830) is a pretty good comprehensive guide on the topic, though it may be slightly out of date. The default race for a Dragonfire Bard is the Silverbrow Human. By the letter of the rules, the extra damage is always fire damage (which a lot of stuff is resistant to) unless you have the Draconic Heritage feat, which will require you to take a one level dip of Sorcerer or Dragonfire Adept. Sorcerer is probably the better option, as you can use the Dragonblood Sorcerer racial substitution level in Races of the Dragon to get Draconic Heritage as a bonus feat. If you want to just go by the fluff of Silverbrow Humans and go with Silver Dragon heritage, that's probably fine, but Battle Dragon herritage is better, as sonic damage isn't resisted by very much and you'll get a slight bonus to your perform skill.

[Ettina]

As for battle, I'd like him to be fairly competent in melee but not a meat shield. Mostly, I want to be able to buff the party and then pull out my weapon and take on some of the weaker foes, letting the Barbarian, Monk and Cleric take the heavier things.

Maybe a bard/rogue multiclass?

[CQCMerch]

You can contribute a lot in combat with bardic music by using Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic) to jack up your allies damage. You also will want Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting), and maybe Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds, though being a goody two-shoes may not fit your concept), and should pick Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium) as a first level spell known, and try to get your hands on few key items like a Vest of Legends (DMGII). This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830) is a pretty good comprehensive guide on the topic, though it may be slightly out of date. The default race for a Dragonfire Bard is the Silverbrow Human. By the letter of the rules, the extra damage is always fire damage (which a lot of stuff is resistant to) unless you have the Draconic Heritage feat, which will require you to take a one level dip of Sorcerer or Dragonfire Adept. Sorcerer is probably the better option, as you can use the Dragonblood Sorcerer racial substitution level in Races of the Dragon to get Draconic Heritage as a bonus feat. If you want to just go by the fluff of Silverbrow Humans and go with Silver Dragon heritage, that's probably fine, but Battle Dragon herritage is better, as sonic damage isn't resisted by very much and you'll get a slight bonus to your perform skill.

Is that 5 books in total to make the character? Does that require a lot of micro-managing? I'm looking for something simple for my noob brain to wrap itself around. lol


Maybe a bard/rogue multiclass?

Would Swashbuckler be a good multiclass option as well?

[Greenish]

Is that 5 books in total to make the character? Does that require a lot of micro-managing? I'm looking for something simple for my noob brain to wrap itself around. lolIt mostly fiddles around with your Inspire Courage. I doubt full-on Dragonfire Inspiration would even fit into your campaign, but well, what do I know.


Would Swashbuckler be a good multiclass option as well?You'd probably be better off not multiclassing to either. It hits your spellcasting and bardic music for little gain.

[CQCMerch]

It mostly fiddles around with your Inspire Courage. I doubt full-on Dragonfire Inspiration would even fit into your campaign, but well, what do I know.

You'd probably be better off not multiclassing to either. It hits your spellcasting and bardic music for little gain.

Perhaps a straight up bard then? Using some PRCs along the way?

I'm not sure the Dragon stuff would be good for me to try to delve into. The DM is extremely secretive about his campaign and has told a couple players many times "Keep it simple, don't over complicate things."

[WhamBamSam]

Is that 5 books in total to make the character? Does that require a lot of micro-managing? I'm looking for something simple for my noob brain to wrap itself around. lolProbably more than 5 books to be honest, but no, it's not really that involved once it's been put together. Most of it is just flat bonuses to your Inspire Courage or things that allow you to use DFI.

Your first turn in pretty much any combat that doesn't actively prevent you from using your main schtick would be:
Swift Action: Cast Inspirational Boost
Standard Action: Use Dragonfire Inspiration
Move Action: Draw your weapon and move to where you want to be.

If you went the super extra good (as in alignment) route and took Words of Creation, you would have to decide whether to take 3d4 nonlethal damage in exchange for doubling your Bardic Music bonus, and on the second round of combat you would have to make the decision between maintaining your DFI song, or stopping it (meaning its effects would 'only' last another 5 rounds) to poke someone with your sword or start a regular Inspire Courage to have the effects stack, or something.

EDIT: I don't really know where to go with a music focused bard (as opposed to a casting focused or skill focused one) without DFI. Even in relatively low-op games, regular Inspire Courage is a little underwhelming compared to another sword arm or spell cast. But if you mostly want to be a party face, it might work out alright.

[CQCMerch]

Probably more than 5 books to be honest, but no, it's not really that involved once it's been put together. Most of it is just flat bonuses to your Inspire Courage or things that allow you to use DFI.

Your first turn in pretty much any combat that doesn't actively prevent you from using your main schtick would be:
Swift Action: Cast Inspirational Boost
Standard Action: Use Dragonfire Inspiration
Move Action: Draw your weapon and move to where you want to be.

If you went the super extra good route and took Words of Creation, you would have to decide whether to take 3d4 nonlethal damage in exchange for doubling your Bardic Music bonus, and on the second round of combat you would have to make the decision between maintaining your DFI song, or stopping it (meaning its effects would 'only' last another 5 rounds) to poke someone with your sword or start a regular Inspire Courage to have the effects stack, or something.

Oh, I see. I'll have to take a look into that. Thank you. :)

[nedz]

From your first post I would have said Beguiler (PH2), but they're not very good in melee.

Probably better skills than a Bard, because they are Int based — so more skill points. Bards would tend to be slightly better at Cha based skills to start with, but ultimately skill ranks outshine stats. Their casting is certainly better. YMMV

[Greenish]

Perhaps a straight up bard then? Using some PRCs along the way?There are a few decent bard PrCs, but with the advice of "keep it simple", bard 1-20 is sounding pretty good. Spells and songs oratory for buffing, whip for trip/disarm, longsword or rapier (or short bow or other weapon you feel fitting) for hitting people with. This (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1145396) may come in handy.

[CQCMerch]

From your first post I would have said Beguiler (PH2), but they're not very good in melee.

Probably better skills than a Bard, because they are Int based — so more skill points. Bards would tend to be slightly better at Cha based skills to start with, but ultimately skill ranks outshine stats. Their casting is certainly better. YMMV

That's actually a really cool idea, I hadn't even noticed the class. I'll definitely check it out. Melee isn't a huge concern, really, just the buffing idea. Thanks! :)


There are a few decent bard PrCs, but with the advice of "keep it simple", bard 1-20 is sounding pretty good. Spells and songs oratory for buffing, whip for trip/disarm, longsword or rapier (or short bow or other weapon you feel fitting) for hitting people with. This (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1145396) may come in handy.

I shall give this a look, thank you! :)

[Trasilor]

Just be careful, a DFI bard can catch a new DM off guard :smallamused:

I had that happen once. My DFI bard gave everybody +4d6 fire damage on all attacks. First the DM was like :smallconfused: then :smalleek:.