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atemu1234
2014-09-05, 03:23 PM
I was designing an ACF for a sorcerer where you trade your familiar for a bloodline feat (such as illithid bloodline, etc.). I was operating on the idea that one feat equals another (Acquire Familiar as opposed to a Bloodline one), what do you think?

Also, if you think the ACF is good, let me know.

Bakkan
2014-09-05, 03:33 PM
I haven't looked at the potential applications of your particular ACF, but I can assure you that feats are nothing like equal in value. Natural Spell, for instance, is at least 100 times better than Deceitful (both from Core).

Necroticplague
2014-09-05, 03:49 PM
No, because feats are not always equal in power. Even taking prerequisites into account as a balancing factor, the power level of feats is all over the board, from weapon style feats that require the two-weapon and weapon focus and power attack lines in exchange for the possibility of a debuff under specific conditions, to tactical feat with only 1 feat you wouldn't take anyway (2 total) that greatly increases the strength of the combat methods promoted by both of it prereqs.

Now, with this in mind, lets move on to your specific example. It is both obsolete (there's a flaw that takes away your familiar, and just gives a blank feat slot), and not a very good trade. Heritage feats restrict what kind of spells you can cast by many more magnitudes than what you get out of it, so one who took this ACF would be short a familiar and down by a good amount of potential ability.

Also, do note that Acquire Familiar is actually better than the class feature, since the feat scales by your CL, while the class feature only scales with levels in that class (in fact, a classic trick is to use the above-mentioned flaw to get Acquire Familiar for a net power gain with no loss).

Extra Anchovies
2014-09-05, 03:57 PM
Feats are not equal, not by a long shot. See: Dodge vs. Power Attack. Both require only 13 in an ability score, but one of them is a painful painful feat tax while the other is the central element of almost any melee build, and is the only reason Überchargers function.

AmberVael
2014-09-05, 04:06 PM
Now, with this in mind, lets move on to your specific example. It is both obsolete (there's a flaw that takes away your familiar, and just gives a blank feat slot), and not a very good trade. Heritage feats restrict what kind of spells you can cast by many more magnitudes than what you get out of it, so one who took this ACF would be short a familiar and down by a good amount of potential ability.

I think your assessment of heritage feats is inaccurate. First, as a sorcerer you only get a minimal number of spells anyway- unless you're cut off from a significant number of good spells, its unlikely to truly hurt you all that much. On the other hand, extra spells known is a really nice thing to have. A bloodline feat will give you another nine spells over the course of your levels, and since you normally only get 34 (not counting cantrips, because... cantrips), it is a significant addition. Especially since you get them immediately upon obtaining that spell level.

Some of them do have more painful limitations, granted. But I'd always take a bloodline feat when I'm offered the chance- "Oh no, I can't cast daylight. I must console myself with Black Tentacles, Plane Shift, and being able to duplicate basically all the evocation spells as I need them."

Suffice to say, I'd take this ACF, especially because I'm not fond of familiars. It does overlap with Forlorn, but eh.

Phelix-Mu
2014-09-05, 04:09 PM
On the general topic of feat equality, some feats also lead to other good feats, which increases their value to a character. Dead-end feats lack this, and thus are less useful, in the abstract.

Asrrin
2014-09-05, 04:38 PM
Getting the ACF to give you a free bloodline feat at the cost of your familiar is strictly superior to simply picking up the bloodline feat for one simple reason: the feat for getting a familiar counts your total class level, while the familiar class ability only counts sorcerer levels. So if you are planning on PrCing it gets rid of the one and only downside for the sorcerer to PrC (letting the familiar's level languish). Sorcerers get literally no other class feature from staying in the base class aside from leveling up the familiar.

Chronos
2014-09-05, 08:58 PM
Count me as another one who would always take a bloodline feat if they're available. Though, I'd also always take Obtain Familiar if I didn't already have one. So I'd say that, while feats in general are not all equal, these two are, or are close enough that it doesn't matter (by the time you get to "always take this", it doesn't matter which is better than the other). And it would still be a slight upgrade, both because of the better scaling on Obtain Familiar than on the class feature, and because it would guarantee that the bloodline feats are available, which they aren't always.