E6 Assassin

[Blackhawk748]

We may be starting an E6 game in the near future (fingers crossed) but even if we dont this idea has been floating around in my head for awhile. The basic concept is something like this, highly mobile dual wielder. Ya i know those two things usually dont work, i just like having the option to gtfo if i need to and ive never actually gotten to play my dual handcrossbow wielder, as such the build looks something like this:

Ranger 2/Rouge 3/Assassin 1

1:Quick Draw, Craven (if rogue) or Weapon Finesse (if ranger), TWF
3:Weapon Focus Hand Crossbow
6:Crossbow Sniper

Ranger will net me Rapid Shot and ill have 3d6 sneak attack at lvl 6, poison use, death attack, and maybe a spell or two being icing. Now my big problem is, do i start as a ranger or a rogue? Also feat suggestions are always welcomed.

EDIT: im also not married to this particular progression this is just my opening concept

[Fouredged Sword]

Skill points are a premium in E6. That first level should go in your highest skill point class. Rogue 1 / Ranger 2 / Rogue 2 / Assassin 1

[Blackhawk748]

Well that means that ill be taking Craven buh-bye Weapon Finesse.
Also this will be my first E6 game so anything else i need to be aware of? I mean ive played a lot of DnD and we are usually around this lvl anyway so im fairly comfortable coming up with waky plans to save my rear end.

[Fouredged Sword]

skills and hp are big investments. Feats come without end. Scary things are scary. Gold is cheep, and solves many problems, check shax sack for ideas

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Keep in mind that in E6, level adjustment gets replaced by a lower point buy, so it doesn't cost you any levels.

Make your character a Marrulurk from Sandstorm, it has a +1 LA with three racial HD. You would need to work with your DM on coming up with a level progression similar to the ones in Savage Species. Add on one level of the Half-Fiend Template Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a), which gives you the Outsider creature type and base skill points, two claws, and some other benefits for another +1 LA. You can take as few levels of that template class as you want (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a), so you'll only ever have the first level of Half-Fiend. Use this variant (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) based on a Babau (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#babau) to gain all of its listed skills as class skills for your racial HD.

So that's a small size +2 LA jackal-headed part-fiend, with three racial HD and a +2 LA that gives you the following benefits:
Str +2, Dex +8, Con +4, Wis +6, Cha +4, 20 ft. base land speed.
+3 natural armor, two claw attacks at 1d3, Darkvision 60 ft., Low-Light Vision.
3d8 HD, +3 BAB, base saves Fort +1, Reflex +3, Will +3, proficiency in all martial weapons, light armor, and all shields.
Skills: (8+Int)x6 skill points for the racial HD, class skills are Bluff, Climb, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Slight of Hand, Spot, Survival, and Use Rope. +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently.
Point-Blank Shot and Rapid Shot as racial bonus feats!
Discriminate Hearing (amazing), Resistance to Dessication, Resist Fire 5, Poison Use, Death Attack (Cha-based), Sneak Attack +2d6, Nauseating Breath 1/day.
Darkness 3/day at a caster level equal to his total character level.

For a level progression for the racial HD, each level would give d8 HP, Fighter BAB, Bard base saves, and 8+Int skill points (x4 at 1st level) with the above class skills. He'd probably get 1d6 sneak attack at 1st and 3rd like a Rogue, proficiencies at 1st level, and the skill bonuses, Marruspawn traits, Half-Fiend benefits, and vision at 1st level. I'd give it the Marrulurk's +2 natural armor split up to +1 at 2nd and 3rd, Death Attack at 1st, Poison Use and Point-Blank Shot at 2nd, and Rapid Shot and Nauseating Breath at 3rd. Anything not mentioned would be gained at 1st.

Note that a Babau has Search and Disable Device, but no trapfinding. It would make sense to Rule Zero them into being able to find traps like a Rogue, and it would be fair to allow that to carry over to a (slightly) Half-Babau. Otherwise you would be waiting until 4th level to get Trapfinding.

Also keep in mind that you get two claws at 1st level. That means you don't need to take TWF and don't take the standard penalties for fighting with two weapons. Plus your racial HD gives you a +1 BAB at 1st level, so you can get Weapon Finesse immediately.

If you want to move faster, get the Quick Trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick) for a 30 ft. base land speed starting out.

[Blackhawk748]

Wall of scary scary thing

While all of the Above is true, i was thinking about having another guy try his hand at DMing for the first time, and the other OPer at the table would prbly slap me for that........ then id slap myself lol

Basically put while that is freakin sweet and actually fits my request, bit out of my optimization zone. Though i may play that if we ever do a monster game........

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

While all of the Above is true, i was thinking about having another guy try his hand at DMing for the first time, and the other OPer at the table would prbly slap me for that........ then id slap myself lol

Basically put while that is freakin sweet and actually fits my request, bit out of my optimization zone. Though i may play that if we ever do a monster game........

It's not really even optimized, it's just a race with a single level of a template class. Granted those three racial HD are considerably better than three levels of Rogue, and the stat bonuses are extremely good for a +2 LA, but it's no Half-Minotuar.

[Blackhawk748]

Valid point, i guess it just looks freakin nuts

[Gemini476]

Also keep in mind that you get two claws at 1st level. That means you don't need to take TWF and don't take the standard penalties for fighting with two weapons. Plus your racial HD gives you a +1 BAB at 1st level, so you can get Weapon Finesse immediately.

I'm pretty sure he wanted TWF so that he could dual-wield crossbows.

...If you do decide to go this route, which may or may not be a good idea (I probably wouldn't with a first-time DM), consider making good use of your full BAB and taking it all the way up to +6/+1 at level six. An extra attack is still a pretty big deal in E6, and given how you're planning on Rapid Shot Two Weapon Fighting you'll need all of the bonuses you can get. (You're already at +2 over the Ranger/Rogue/Assassin build, so it kind of cancels out.)

[Fouredged Sword]

To be fair, it IS a fairly beastly 3 levels. Not any worse than being a pixie though. Permanent Greater Invisibility and flight, high stat bonuses in everything you care about? No RHD? SR 15+HD and DR 10/cold iron?! Yes please.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If all you want to do is make sneak attacks, a Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) Thug Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) is actually quite good. Go with a Whisper Gnome (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) and get two flaws to start with Weapon Finesse, TWF, and Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) at 1st level. Pick up Craven and ITWF at 3rd and 6th, then with your post-6th feats for E6 take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, the E6 Fighter capstone feat, Melee Weapon Mastery, Improved Critical, and Greater Weapon Focus. Also consider taking Extra Silence and Silencing Strike if you go Whisper Gnome.

I would drop the hand crossbow gimmick and try to get Gloves of Endless Javelins in MIC. Use your Wild Cohort as a flanking partner when needed, and you can use it as a mount when traveling. Make it a (Magebred) Riding Dog trained for war for the trip attack, and use Handle Animal to give it the Warbeast template in MM2.

[dascarletm]

Don't worry if you need to delay picking up a feat, as previously mentioned you'll get quite a few after you hit 6.

[Gemini476]

To be fair, it IS a fairly beastly 3 levels. Not any worse than being a pixie though. Permanent Greater Invisibility and flight, high stat bonuses in everything you care about? No RHD? SR 15+HD and DR 10/cold iron?! Yes please.

Personally when it comes to strongish creatures that become hilarious in E6 I'm partial to MMII's Sylph. 3HD+5LA, so I guess that makes it ECL 4 with a 0PB in E6?
The thing is, though, that the Sylph has a racial Sorcerer casting equal to its HD+4.
Yes, this thing rivals the legendary Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold.
It is hilarious.

You also have at-will Greater Invisibility(Self Only), 1/day Summon Monster VI for large elementals, 90' good flight, and you're an Outsider(Air).

There are some downsides, of course - you can't be raised or ressurected, for one, and the statline is somewhat bad. (Str 6, Dex 10, Con 6, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 14).

But still. You get to be a Sorcerer Of Great And Untold Power as a teeny tiny (actually Small, but w/e) fairy person.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Personally when it comes to strongish creatures that become hilarious in E6 I'm partial to MMII's Sylph. 3HD+5LA, so I guess that makes it ECL 4 with a 0PB in E6?
The thing is, though, that the Sylph has a racial Sorcerer casting equal to its HD+4.
Yes, this thing rivals the legendary Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold.
It is hilarious.

You also have at-will Greater Invisibility(Self Only), 1/day Summon Monster VI for large elementals, 90' good flight, and you're an Outsider(Air).

There are some downsides, of course - you can't be raised or ressurected, for one, and the statline is somewhat bad. (Str 6, Dex 10, Con 6, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 14).

But still. You get to be a Sorcerer Of Great And Untold Power as a teeny tiny (actually Small, but w/e) fairy person.

So a Slyph with three Sorcerer/PrC levels casts as a Sorcerer 13, but it has a +1 LA you can't drop which means you only get five levels total, reducing you to two levels of Sorcerer and casting as a Sorcerer 11. The Kobold + shenanigans casts as a Wizard 9 and can learn spells from any class spell list, so both get 5th level spells but I think the Kobold is still ahead.

A Hatchling Phaerimm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a) (last page), is +2 LA, its 1 HD gets replaced by its first class level, it gets Sorcerer spellcasting equal to its HD. At Sorcerer 6 it casts spells as a Sorcerer 12, and if you're good-aligned you can use the Ancestral Relic Runestaff trick.

[Gemini476]

So a Slyph with three Sorcerer/PrC levels casts as a Sorcerer 13, but it has a +1 LA you can't drop which means you only get five levels total, reducing you to two levels of Sorcerer and casting as a Sorcerer 11. The Kobold + shenanigans casts as a Wizard 9 and can learn spells from any class spell list, so both get 5th level spells but I think the Kobold is still ahead.

A Hatchling Phaerimm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a) (last page), is +2 LA, its 1 HD gets replaced by its first class level, it gets Sorcerer spellcasting equal to its HD. At Sorcerer 6 it casts spells as a Sorcerer 12, and if you're good-aligned you can use the Ancestral Relic Runestaff trick.

I'm pretty sure that when a race refers to hit dice it's referring to racial hit dice. Someone might correct me, though.

(Of course, the hypothetical CL 11 Sylph Sorcerer is still kind of on the same general power level as the spellhoarding loredrake dragonwrought kobold sorcerer. And finally beyond the power of the Artificer and List Casters, who have access to 4th level spells as well through various tricks. The level 1 kobold paladin still laughs at them all, of course.)

[Blackhawk748]

Wow, those are freakin scary, and i made the guy that i may yet convince to DM, cringe

[Gemini476]

Wow, those are freakin scary, and i made the guy that i may yet convince to DM, cringe

There are some things that have lower power but still manage to get somewhat freaky in the confines of E6.

The Mystic Ranger, for instance. It's from some Dragon Magazine and drops some combat styles for some weak-ish spellcasting - it maxes out at 5th level spells at level 10, and stays there for the next infinity of levels. Kind of like the Old-School Elf, I suppose.
Now take that same Mystic Ranger, somewhat balanced by his limited spell-list and top spell level, and stop playing at level 6. BAB +6/+1 and 3rd level spells is a bit strong.
Now give him the Sword of the Arcane Order feat, so he can prepare Wizard spells in a spellbook if he acquires them.
Now give him the Wildshaping SCF so that he can Wildshape into only medium forms (but that's your limit in E6 anyways) and the ACF that gives you trapfinding.
Oh, and take the Wild Cohort feat to get back the animal companion you traded out.

Congratulations, you have condensed an entire party into a single PC.
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Beguilers, Warmages, and Dread Necromancers know their entire list of spells when they get access to each level. If you give them access to the Versatile Spellcaster feat, they can use two 3rd-level slots to cast a 4th level spell they know (say, Heightened Fireball.) They then know their 4th-level list, and can use Versatile Spellcaster to cast 4th-level spells whenever they wish (albeit expensively).
Now give the Dread Necromancer some metamagic reducers on Enervate to make it Ocular or Maximized or Twinned or whatever (Maximized Twinned Ocular Enervation gives you two shots of touch AC-or-8 negative levels). Negative levels are scary in E6.
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Sixth-level Artificers can craft scrolls of 4th-level spells.
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Did you know that a lot of classes have some really nice sweet spots showing up in the E6 levels? Fighting dudes get a second attack, for instance, Crusaders can be nearly invincible tanks, and Incarnum is also nice there.

Some classes are less fortunate - the Truenamer, for instance, is faced with static skill ranks and steadily increasing CRs (and no Quicken Utterance or Fog From the Void in sight!), and the Shadowcaster gets his first big anti-xbowmode class feature... at level 7.
These are probably things that [Epic E6] feats should be implemented to fix, but it's nice to see the contrast.

Oh, and Fighters are decent in E6, yeah, but their main class feature is feats and if there's one thing you aren't starving for in E6 it's feats.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I'll remind folks of the feat "Open Minded" that grants 5 skill points.

Sixth-level Artificers can craft scrolls of 4th-level spells.True but good luck getting a DM to agree to letting a PC do so.

[Blackhawk748]

Open Minded is definitely being put on the List of "Stuff i should take"

Also i was thinking about just taking 6 levels of Ranger, and then getting Sneak Attack some other way. The usual ways to do this, Bind Andromalus or take Assassin's Stance dont work, as i either need a Binder Dip, which i cant afford, or just be higher level. Bugger.