Spider Rider

[torrasque666]

So I have a new player coming in who wants to make a character based on riding a spider and performing mounted combat on it. Thing is, I have NO idea how to help him do so. I have no knowledge with mounted combat, how to be good at it, how even would even go about getting a good Spider Mount, etc...

Help?

All non-setting books and all Eberron books. Try to avoid Dragon Magazine as much as you can, preferably even Dragon Comp. 2 flaws allowed. Avoid pathfinder stuff.

[Flickerdart]

There are a whole bunch of Drow-themed classes, ACFs, and feats based around getting spider minions.

[atemu1234]

There are a whole bunch of Drow-themed classes, ACFs, and feats based around getting spider minions.

The above, look in Drow of the Underdark v3.5.

[torrasque666]

So far, he's going Paladin of Tyranny(with some ACF to get rid of the casting)5/Valadis Beastkeeper 4.

Flaws: Curious, Frail
Feats(As far as I know them) Mounted Combat, Rideby Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack(Hopefully)
Human
Still kinda dunno on his Stats.

[atemu1234]

So far, he's going Paladin of Tyranny(with some ACF to get rid of the casting)5/Valadis Beastkeeper 4.

Flaws: Curious, Frail
Feats(As far as I know them) Mounted Combat, Rideby Attack, Spirited Charge, Power Attack(Hopefully)
Human
Still kinda dunno on his Stats.

For obvious reasons he should invest in dexterity. Next he needs strength and a decent constitution, from there probably a good investment in intelligence for help ranking in ride along with other important skills. Since he's a PoT, he'll need charisma and Wisdom. Right now he seems to need all stats in the 12+ range.

[Pex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoB8t0B4jx4

[The Viscount]

DMG makes mention of alternate mounts for simply getting a spider. If you really want to make it useful, Knight of Lolth from Drow of the Underdark lets you ride the thing up walls and across ceilings with no checks. You have to burn a feat on Vermin Trainer (though it lets you handle your spider if need be), but still potentially worth it if it's the type of game with lots of walls and ceilings.

Out of curiosity why ditch the casting if the player is going to get more casting from Vadalis Beastkeeper?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Any Paladin can get a large Monstrous Spider as a special mount at level 6 (DMG).

[torrasque666]

Out of curiosity why ditch the casting if the player is going to get more casting from Vadalis Beastkeeper?

Because he really doesn't want to play a caster at all, and was only open to Beastkeeper when I mentioned that it has a very select list of spells, and not many. It pulls from its own list(doesn't advance casting) and gets, at max level, 2 firsts, 1 second, 1 third, and 0 fourths, before accounting for bonus spells.

I did advise him to take Knight of Lolth though.

[Blackhawk748]

He may honestly want to get a bow and some Mounted Archery, mainly because a Large Spider isnt exactly the best for heavy cavalry shenanigans, which appears to be what hes going for. Not that they cant do it, its just that your not really taking advantage of their climbing ability that way.

I actually made a bunch of Spider Clan goblins who rode around on monstrous spider and just riddled everyone with arrows from the ceiling or the treetops or just in general high places. Spiders are a great way to make Mounted Archery useful almost anywhere.

[Irk]

Vermin Trainer + Arachnid Rider into Spider Companion, Knight of Lolth, and Lolth's Boon, in that order. Big bonus on Handle Animal and Ride with Monstrous Spiders, bonus on damage and attack when having your spider charge, you don;t fall off when it climbs walls or ceilings, the ability to grant your spidee bonus HP and a damage bonus by expending turn/rebuke undead (cloistered cleric dip?), and access to a Monstrous Spider of a size up to Huge as an animal companion. You just have to have an animal companion.

[torrasque666]

Irk, you missed the part about no FR stuff didn't you...

[Blackhawk748]

Wow i missed that to, good thing i usually give campaign ambivalent advice anyway :smallwink:

Kinda sucks though because most of the good Vermin mount stuff IIRC comes out of Faerun

[Irk]

Irk, you missed the part about no FR stuff didn't you...
'Twas explicitly meant to defy you! Also, I can't read.

Vermin Trainer + Knight of Lolth and Spider Companion should serve as a good base, Lolth's boon is too little for so much investment, though, now that I think about it.

Make sure the Spider is Huge and has the feats Crush (new attack) and Improved Web (+2 DC and other benefits). You'll be able to shoot arrows while climbing up a wall, having the spider shoot web to keep the target in place, get to the ceiling, and flavor it as flipping over to land stomach side down on the opponent, all while firing away. maybe a ride check for that last bit.

With Improved Web, you'll also be able to hold 3 targets in place at once, all the better for counteracting charge counters.

I was looking at the various spider-themed classes, but I think that what you already had helps more.

Hope this post is more helpful than my last one!

[torrasque666]

Isn't a spider mindless, and therefore unable to take feats?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Isn't a spider mindless, and therefore unable to take feats?

The Vermin Trainer, Knight of Lolth & Spider Companion granted spider is mindless and doesn't get feats, unless you somehow get it a template like fiendish.
A Special Mount always has at least 6 Int though, no matter the base creature.

[Irk]

Isn't a spider mindless, and therefore unable to take feats?
Good point. Pay a Master of Flies to Awaken it?

[torrasque666]

In any case..... he has changed his mind YET AGAIN..... oif.

Now he wants to go for more a Beastmaster archetype, and he found the Beast Heart Adept. I did a quick check and found that the only classes that easily met the requirements were...... Factotum and if I recall correctly, Marshal. So I pointed him in the direction of Human Paragon instead, so that he could pick and choose his class skills, and advised a 2 level Marshal dip to get him the rest of the way, taking Able Learner at 1st so that he could easily afford anything.

I now realize I could have advised him to take anything really with Able Learner and still get into BHA at 6.

So any advice on a beastmaster style play? Because I got nothing on them.

[Blackhawk748]

Its basic minion-mancy honestly, you have your couple of scary monsters and they eat things faces for you. Personally i take Natural Bond a few times so all of my companions have at least similar HD.

[torrasque666]

You are aware that by RAW, Natural Bond doesn't work with Beast Heart Adept right? Natural Bond raises your effective Druid level, calls it out even, while BHA uses your BHA level for a Monstrous Companion, not an Animal Companion.

Most likely our DM will go for it, especially if I reason it out with him(he trusts me, I'm basically his co-DM for mechanics stuff)

I also have no idea how to suggest minionmancy stuff. I don't have any experience with it really.

[Blackhawk748]

Huh, well my DM oked it, probably for similar reasons. As far as minionmancy goes you need to get a couple of buffs for them, Mass Lesser Vigor, Mass Bulls Strength, Mass Venomfire if you wanna be really cruel. Im not really the best with living minions as i usualy Dread Necro when i make a minionmancer.