Making a Dwarf (insert class here)

[Blackhawk748]

I was gonna make some kind of Assassin for our E6 game, but now my buddy introduced to me Diggy Diggy Hole and its friggin stuck in my head and i want to make a Dwarf. Now awhile back i was gonna make a Fighter/Spirit Shaman Dwarf, but that particular wont really work all that well in E6.

So now i know im gonna play a Dwarf, my new problem? i dont know what to play!
Its been awhile since ive played a Dwarf (probably almost 2 years or more) and i think the last one i played was a Fighter. Now i wouldnt mind playing a Dwarven Fighter again, as its classic, but id like some ideas. So my fellow Dwarves, regale me with tales of your beardy winness so that i may forge my own.


Note: i am aware that i could be a dwarven Assassin, but ive always thought that that was a bit weird, thats just my thought anyway.

[Sian]

Dwarf are probably my favorite race since they probably are second or third best (at worst) at anything that doesn't critically need high Charisma (and even then there's a few subraces which negates their -cha, most often with -Dex).

A personal favorite is a Dwarven Wizard, which lives high on his extra health via the +2Con, and +2 on Saves vs all kinds of Spells, making them a all but certain winner in any kind of Mage duel, levels being equal.

[Blackhawk748]

I remember a Dwarven Sorc i had years back, he was crazy durable. While i will never play a Wizard (i hate prepping my spells, i much prefer my "toolbox") i seem to recall them having some fun Dwarf specific stuff.

[Fax Celestis]

I like dwarven Druids, myself.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Note: i am aware that i could be a dwarven Assassin, but ive always thought that that was a bit weird, thats just my thought anyway.

Dwarven assassin with Darkstalker is IMO a super flavorful underground/mountain hunter. Maybe like Wildshape Ranger 5 / Assassin 1, or whatever entry seems reasonable.

[Blackhawk748]

I guess i've just always found a Dwarven Rogue to be a bit weird, and i usually enter Assassin with Rogue. Now Ranger into Assassin seems a bit less strange.

Maybe its the fact that i always think of dwarves as a bunch of honorable badasses so i find it hard to picture them sneaking about ganking people.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I guess i've just always found a Dwarven Rogue to be a bit weird, and i usually enter Assassin with Rogue. Now Ranger into Assassin seems a bit less strange.

Maybe its the fact that i always think of dwarves as a bunch of honorable badasses so i find it hard to picture them sneaking about ganking people.

If you haven't read it, maybe read some of Wishsong of Shannara. I kinda enjoy Terry Brooks' take on Dwarves as something other than rock hill mountain cave stone metal beer. He gives them a bit of the flavor that wild/wood Elves often have, as solitary forest hunters. It's an interesting way to think about it, and even if you're running a world with pretty standard Dwarves... well, any fantasy world that has Dwarves has nasty evil things that lurk in the places Dwarves are. It stands to reason there would be honorable badass hunters who go to confront them.

[Blackhawk748]

Hmmm honorable badass hunter, sounds like it would be a lot of fun, may actual just use dwarf as my race for the build i had.

[Fax Celestis]

Dwarf rogues can get into the Silver Key prestige class at third level, a dwarf-specific rogue PrC. It's in Dragonmarked.

[Sir Garanok]

Make a knight d12 + extra con = ultra tank

[Blackhawk748]

Make a knight d12 + extra con = ultra tank

Actually thought about this. Be a Gold Dwarf, take Titan Fighting, have a Tower Shield (my group ignores that stupid -2 to hit) wear Adamantine Fullplate, ??????? Profit!!


A little sad that i cant take Combat Vigor, that would be sick in E6

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fax Celestis
I like dwarven Druids, myself.

Dwarven druids, or dwarven ranger. Somehow that just works for me.

Although a dwarven paladin of freedom can be a trip.

[Sam K]

I guess i've just always found a Dwarven Rogue to be a bit weird, and i usually enter Assassin with Rogue. Now Ranger into Assassin seems a bit less strange.

Maybe its the fact that i always think of dwarves as a bunch of honorable badasses so i find it hard to picture them sneaking about ganking people.

Think ninja-style (not the class): a stealthy type utterly devoted to eliminating the enemies of his clan/people. You don't get much more badass than a ninja with a beard!

[Blackhawk748]

Ok ive made up my mind, im gonna make a Dwarven Knight. I may actually just go a straight 6 levels in it. As ive never made a Knight before im just gonna describe my basic concept. The Immovable Object.

He will wield a Dwarven Waraxe and a Hide Shield and will eventually wear Adamatine Fullplate. Basically im going fo the Dwarven Defender without the PrC.

Feats im thinking about: Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Combat Focus, Combat Defense, Combat Stability, Dodge, Titan Fighting, and finally Quick Draw (for Axe Throwing). Totally gonna ask my DM if i could take Combat Vigour as like a capstone feat.

So recommendations?

Edit: Realized that Knights arent proficient with Tower Shields

[Red Fel]

So recommendations?

Are you looking for effectiveness or flavor? Because in E6 (or even in regular play), a Dwarf Knight will be... tricky.

First off, a Knight's key ability - Knight's Challenge - keys off of Charisma. Unless you're picking a subrace without a Cha penalty (such as the Gold Dwarf mentioned upthread), that's going to hurt you. You can use that ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 your class level +Cha, or at cap 3+Cha times per day. That's not a lot unless you've got a healthy Cha.

Second off, what does it get you? Well, you can use Fighting Challenge for a +1 bonus on Will saves, attack rolls, and damage rolls against a particular enemy. And you can use Test of Mettle to force enemies to make a Will save or target you. That Will save, by the way, is DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Cha, which at capstone will be DC 13+Cha. Not hard for most enemies to make. Remember also that Knight's Challenge abilities don't work against creatures that have low Int or lack a language. So, useless against undead and animals, for example.

Third, what did you plan to do with the character? You're going to be heavily armored, so nobody who can avoid it will target you. Your speed will be poor, so if you get separated from the party there's basically nothing you can do for them. You will either dump Cha (because Dwarf), meaning your Knight's Challenge will be disappointing, or dump Dex (because Gold Dwarf), meaning you might not even qualify for Dodge, and your touch AC - which involves bypassing that pretty plate of yours - will be in the toilet.

Bottom line: What are you trying to accomplish with this character? You say "The Immovable Object." The thing about immovable objects is... They don't move. They don't accomplish anything. Nobody is afraid of an immovable object. It's not menacing. It won't give chase. It won't hurt them. It just stands there... Not moving.

So are you going for flavor or effectiveness?

[Blackhawk748]

Effective Flavor is usually my goal. I think of something i think is cool and then Optimize for that goal.

Race will be Gold Dwarf as im not a huge fan of Dream Dwarf. As for the movement issue i take the boots of striding and springing with virtually every character i play as i like getting around the battlefield. As for the DC the mages are in a similar boat, but the are SAD so it really isnt a huge deal for them, thankfully its a Will save which is usually the lowest of all monster saves.

As for my stats we roll those, so i should be able to get the numbers where i need them, as if your stats are kinda crap you get a free reroll (we are VERY generous with our base stats i once had a human whose lowest stat was a 15, never used that dice roller again)

I guess the goal is to be the archetypical Dwarven Tank which the Test of Mettle will help me accomplish, thankfully unlike the Dwarven defender i dont turn into a large adamatine boulder that you put in front of a door. Might use Never Outnumbered for a bit of Intimidate usage and i may invest a bit into some Mounted Combat as i get it for free.

Note i will be playing this character under a new DM so i dont need to go freakin nuts on OPing, id just like to be viable.

[troqdor1316]

I guess i've just always found a Dwarven Rogue to be a bit weird, and i usually enter Assassin with Rogue. Now Ranger into Assassin seems a bit less strange.

Maybe its the fact that i always think of dwarves as a bunch of honorable badasses so i find it hard to picture them sneaking about ganking people.

My favorite and only Alliance character in Vanilla WoW was a Dwarven Rogue. You just have to think about it differently; a Dwarven Rogue doesn't need to sneak, he's got his best buds that he can rely on for flanking whenever he needs them. A Dwarven Rogue isn't a thief. He's a connoisseur. After all, nobody can appreciate fine gemstones and metalwork better than a dwarf (except an azer), and if ya aren't appreciating it properly, by the sod you don't right deserve it, now do ya laddy? A Dwarven Rogue isn't a locksmith...well...actually, yeah, he probably is.

A Dwarven Rogue can not only drink you under the table, he can drink you under the table and then win all of your gold in a game of Five Finger Fillet while completely smashed.

A Dwarven Rogue is the height of sophistication and elegance in a compact, hair-covered frame.

A Dwarven Rogue has a goddamn gold-embroidered beard because He's Just That Classy.

It's all about playing against the stereotype that makes the character fun. Think of Varric from Dragon Age 2.

[Fax Celestis]

There's a shield property that let's you put your shield enhancement bonus to your touch AC. It's a +1. Ghost ward or something. With the knight's shield bonus and aggro mechanic, it helps. You might want to invest in Combat Expertise + Deadly Defense, but it's a little mediocre. Maybe you could toy with Combat Reflexes + Evasive Reflexes? The latter lets you sub a 5' step for an AoO. Couple with Karmic Strike or Robilar's Gambit and a reach weapon for shenanigans.

Or you could go with Vexing Flanker + Adaptive Flanker, which ups your flanking bonus to hit to +4, and then lets you designate a square you threaten to also be treated as occupying for flanking purposes (which, incidentally, means you can flank with yourself).

[Blackhawk748]

I do remember Ghost Ward, but i was gonna grab Shield Ward so i can do that at all times.

[gorfnab]

How about Crusader? Stone Dragon maneuvers seem to fit themeatically with dwarf.

[Blackhawk748]

How about Crusader? Stone Dragon maneuvers seem to fit themeatically with dwarf.

While Crusader is valid for this concept, im just not a fan of it. If i was gonna go with a ToB class id go with Warblade as its my favorite. As it goes i was thinking of snagging a few Stone Dragon Maneuvers with feats.

[Drelua]

Well, I'm a big fan of Dwarven rangers. My first PFS character started as a Dwarf barbarian, and now he's a barbarian 1/Ranger 10, with extra rage so he has just rounds per day to cover the big fights, and the two-handed combat style. I don't know if 3.5 has a 1st party two-handed style, but I think there was one from Dragon magazine. Ranger's can be decent TWFers anyway, since they don't have to worry about getting their DEX up. He's a really fun character, who I basically play as a normal frontliner with decent skills, and a pet kitty. Pathfinder has some really good Dwarven weapons, like the longhammer, though again, I'm not sure if anything like that exists in 3.5.