DM's Call: Prestidigitation

[jedipotter]

So Prestidigitation is a great little ''mini wish'' spell that has tons and tons of uses. But exactly what Prestidigitation can do is left up to the DM. And every so often a Prestidigitation thread comes up with all sorts of things that people have seen or done in a game with the spell. But I wonder how many DMs would allow each of them to be done?

So you have a use, then post it. Otherwise, lets hear how you'd rule.



The main things i use prestidigitation for are: Instabath

The spell only lists cleaning objects, I would rule that Prestidigitation can not clean a creature.




Ive personally used it to melt a giant icicle which impaled a frost troll which then caused a bit of a cave in.

I can't see this working. Warming up one pound of ice and causing an icicle to fall and impale a creature? It's way too much. I'd rule this could never work in my game

[Sir Chuckles]

I'm fine with it cleaning a creature, though the icicle is fairly dubious. I don't think warming something is the same as melting it, especially since it's in a frozen environment and everything around it is at freezing temperatures.

Even with it not affecting creatures, you can at least still have Instalaundry.

[heavyfuel]

Melting the ice could work. Think about melting a thin, but wide layer of ice that weights less than the maximum pound, it would make the bottom part of the icicle to fall. I still would require an attack roll on flat-footed AC (or regular AC if the target was aware) to hit the icicle and give the target creature the standard Reflex CD15 to save and take half damage (AFB right now, someone correct me if this isn't the way it works)

As for instabath, I'd allow it to clean things similarly to how a wet cloth can clean you. You'll be free of sweat and dirt; but acid, oils, poisons, and the like will still affect you normally.

[Spindrift]

I'd rule that it could clean a dead creature, as corpses are considered objects for the sake of most effects. I'd also allow it to clean a willing creature(depending on creature size and level of filth), but I wouldn't let it remove acid/burning oil/glitterdust or other special effects from them.

[Sir Chuckles]

I'd rule that it could clean a dead creature, as corpses are considered objects for the sake of most effects. I'd also allow it to clean a willing creature(depending on creature size and level of filth), but I wouldn't let it remove acid/burning oil/glitterdust or other special effects from them.

So a Commoner with the Dead flaw, using the bonus feat for Magical Training would never have to bathe again?

[Blackhawk748]

Im gonna clarify the Icicle bit, i didnt use the warming function of Prestidigitation, i used the 6 inch finger flame function and blow torched it.

[Jeff the Green]

As for instabath, I'd allow it to clean things similarly to how a wet cloth can clean you. You'll be free of sweat and dirt, but acid, oils, poisons, and the like will still affect you normally.

Agreed. Prestidigitation can reasonably be expanded to similar minor abilities. Tome and Blood explicitly did, and the "a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects" clause implies so. I may describe it as decidedly unpleasant, though, as if you were being scoured with a scrub-brush and ammonia.

The icicle thing is dubious because of the "cannot deal damage" clause. If that's okay because the effect is indirect, it's fine. According to Tome and Blood's web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), you can "increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal." As long as the thing isn't below -8° F, it can be melted.

[Spindrift]

So a Commoner with the Dead flaw, using the bonus feat for Magical Training would never have to bathe again?

I think he's got bigger problems than being a little dirty, I'd just let him take a homebrew feat that makes his corpse always be clean and smell nice if that's what he wants, I don't think it would unbalance the game. Maybe the feat gives him a +2 on diplomacy checks with morticians and people who are forced to handle his corpse.

[jedipotter]

I've seen it used to "curse" someone into having a pink shadow. It didn't really matter that the duration was only 1 hour. The target didn't know that at the time.

A pink shadow? I would never allow this one.


A group of wizards were working on a summoning and controlling ritual. There was a ritual circle drawn in dried blood, and candles lit up. there was a barrier around the whole thing that "nothing could penetrate in any way" (this was supposed to be the end battle).
I decided to cause a small gust of wind in a focused area to break the ritual circle (no one noticed that the circle was broken.)

Maybe. If your talking about knocking over a tiny candle. But if ''nothing'' could pass the barrier, I'd rule that blocks Prestidigitation too.


I used prestidigitation to put a golden glowing mark of Corellon Larethian on the forehead of a drow priestess right before she was about to give a big speech. I did a similar thing to a priest of Tiamat with a mark of Bahumat when he was going to meet a red dragon. Fun times, fuuuuuuun times

This is way too much and it violates the prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects rule. Id say no.

[Sir Chuckles]

Curious, what DO you allow it to do?

[heavyfuel]

A pink shadow? I would never allow this one.

Maybe. If your talking about knocking over a tiny candle. But if ''nothing'' could pass the barrier, I'd rule that blocks Prestidigitation too.

This is way too much and it violates the prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects rule. Id say no.

Neither would I. A shadow isn't an object. You could make the place where their shadow is pink, but as soon as they moved, the pink wouldn't move with them.

Agree as well. Also, something every spellcaster seems to forget is that spells with Verbal component (like Prestidigitation) must have said component spoken "in a strong voice". Unless no one there had ranks in Spellcraft and were also deaf, there's no way "no one noticed", especially since presti has a range of only 10ft. (or he had that one skill trick)

Yes, this too is outside the range of presti

[ben-zayb]

Maybe. If your talking about knocking over a tiny candle. But if ''nothing'' could pass the barrier, I'd rule that blocks Prestidigitation too.I read that as him "cleaning" enough surface of the ground to break the blood-drawn circle

[jedipotter]

Create a small sphere of darkness with which to blind someone.

No, way too much of an effect for Prestidigitation.


Create a glowing sphere of light which illuminates as a candle.

No, way too much of an effect for Prestidigitation.



Create the illusion of a small cover around a torch or sunrod to block light if the people fail their saves.

No, way too much of an effect for Prestidigitation.



Create a small flame (size of a thumb nail) which set an enemy on fire.


No, way too much of an effect for Prestidigitation.



Our party wizard caught a rapscallion child pickpocketing him, Grabbed the kid and used Prestidigitation to make his own hand appear on fire and threatened to melt the kids face. Our barbarian "talked" him out of it and we were not bothered by pick pockets the rest of our time in town.

This one is just fine. I'd allow this. I'd even allow a +1 to the Intimidate skill.




I once used Predistigation to dry two other player's clothes and armor after they've been forced to take a swim in a lake in cold night, so they didn't freeze to death. I don't know if it's been possible by RAW, though.


This one is fine too.

[Daishain]

Agreed. Prestidigitation can reasonably be expanded to similar minor abilities. Tome and Blood explicitly did, and the "a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects" clause implies so. I may describe it as decidedly unpleasant, though, as if you were being scoured with a scrub-brush and ammonia.

The icicle thing is dubious because of the "cannot deal damage" clause. If that's okay because the effect is indirect, it's fine. According to Tome and Blood's web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), you can "increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal." As long as the thing isn't below -8° F, it can be melted.
Nope, not going to cut it far as I'm concerned. The energy requirement to melt ice is bloody huge.

The heat of fusion in the case of pure water is about 334 joules per gram. Impurities can and will change this amount, but not by a huge degree (at least not prior to it not really being water anymore)

For comparison, the energy needed to heat the same amount of water by forty degrees Fahrenheit is a bit over 90 joules, the spell doesn't provide nearly enough.

Now, you might be able to make the argument that you can concentrate the heat to a very very small volume (effect similar to a laser), which would work from a physical point of view, but the spell doesn't say a thing about such shenanigans, and allowing it would open up an entirely new can of worms, such as giving a creature a lethal fever by heating the blood as it leaves the heart.

[backwaterj]

If we're going at this from a physics standpoint, an icicle is a great example of potential energy. It's an inherently brittle and heavy item rooted to a single solid point on some sort of overhang. Given this, I don't think melting it is even required (though I'd also rule that unless it's well below freezing you could melt enough to do the trick), you'd merely need to weaken the molecular bonds enough that the ice's crystalline structure forms a split. Gravity does the rest.

The sketchier bit is the "causing damage" part. My take on that is this action wouldn't break invisibility, why should it break the presti damage clause?

That said, there are a lot of easier ways to make an icicle fall, most of which don't involve burning even a 0-level spell.

[Jeff the Green]

Nope, not going to cut it far as I'm concerned. The energy requirement to melt ice is bloody huge.

The heat of fusion in the case of pure water is about 334 joules per gram. Impurities can and will change this amount, but not by a huge degree (at least not prior to it not really being water anymore)

For comparison, the energy needed to heat the same amount of water by forty degrees Fahrenheit is a bit over 90 joules, the spell doesn't provide nearly enough.

Now, you might be able to make the argument that you can concentrate the heat to a very very small volume (effect similar to a laser), which would work from a physical point of view, but the spell doesn't say a thing about such shenanigans, and allowing it would open up an entirely new can of worms, such as giving a creature a lethal fever by heating the blood as it leaves the heart.

:smallannoyed: It's magic. Magic does not care about hydrogen bonds, nor hear capacity.

[jedipotter]

My favorite was the time I used it to cut the bowstring of an archer who was about to fire on one of my foes.

I don't think Prestidigitation can destroy anything. I would not allow this.



To tie someone's shoelaces together

I would not allow this either, or maybe I'd let it happen....but not have any effect. I would sure not make a creature trip or stumble or have any other effect.



Snap my fingers and change a miniscule bit of iron into a Gold coin.

This is just fine.



Freeze water, trapping a monster


No, unless the ''monster'' is like a tiny goldfish.

[backwaterj]

This is just fine.

Actually, this sounds an awful lot like PAO and therefore duplicating a spell effect. And in any case said coin would be obviously fake if we go by prestidigitation's rules on creation.

[Troacctid]

Actually, this sounds an awful lot like PAO and therefore duplicating a spell effect. And in any case said coin would be obviously fake if we go by prestidigitation's rules on creation.

Changing the color and making it shiny isn't a big change. It wouldn't hold up to serious scrutiny, but it could certainly look the part until the duration runs out.

[heavyfuel]

Actually, this sounds an awful lot like PAO and therefore duplicating a spell effect. And in any case said coin would be obviously fake if we go by prestidigitation's rules on creation.

Assuming he meant turning the coin golden and make it into a coin made out of gold, this is perfectly withing the limits of the spell as it explicitly says you can color an object.

[backwaterj]

Copper coin to "gold" coin I'd buy, but not the cited example, which is chunk of iron to gold coin.

[Inevitability]

What is the purpose of this thread anyway? We come up with creative uses of prestidigitation, and Jedipotter either responds with:


No, way too much of an effect for Prestidigitation.


or:


This is just fine.


Who died and made JP the ultimate prestidigitation-authority? :smallannoyed:

[Amphetryon]

Nope, not going to cut it far as I'm concerned. The energy requirement to melt ice is bloody huge.

The heat of fusion in the case of pure water is about 334 joules per gram. Impurities can and will change this amount, but not by a huge degree (at least not prior to it not really being water anymore)

For comparison, the energy needed to heat the same amount of water by forty degrees Fahrenheit is a bit over 90 joules, the spell doesn't provide nearly enough.

Now, you might be able to make the argument that you can concentrate the heat to a very very small volume (effect similar to a laser), which would work from a physical point of view, but the spell doesn't say a thing about such shenanigans, and allowing it would open up an entirely new can of worms, such as giving a creature a lethal fever by heating the blood as it leaves the heart.

What's the temperature of the Fireball spell, by RAW, please?

If it's not listed, then you're getting real-world science all over my D&D, and my catgirls aren't happy about it.

[Sir Chuckles]

What is the purpose of this thread anyway? We come up with creative uses of prestidigitation, and Jedipotter either responds with:

Who died and made JP the ultimate prestidigitation-authority? :smallannoyed:

Jedpotter. They are like a phoenix who slays themselves in order to regain HP and cause a small explosion.
I give it another page or so before it devolves into nitpicks and such about either physics, Jedipotter, or an inane, non-tangential off topic.

Though anything like cutting bowstrings I'd say no to. It can't do damage, and it exerts less force than Mage Hand. Not very useful for stealth, due to the whole vocal thing.
Really tripped up one of my players once with "Yes, you're a Favored Soul, no that does not mean you don't chant and wave around a holy symbol."


What's the temperature of the Fireball spell, by RAW, please?

If it's not listed, then you're getting real-world science all over my D&D, and my catgirls aren't happy about it.

The catgirls will be disappointed to know that Fireball is only stated to be able to melt certain metals and cause fires on certain materials, but not the actual temperature.

[backwaterj]

What is the purpose of this thread anyway? We come up with creative uses of prestidigitation, and Jedipotter either responds with:



or:




Who died and made JP the ultimate prestidigitation-authority? :smallannoyed:

I believe that was President Obama (spoiler alert!)


What's the temperature of the Fireball spell, by RAW, please?

If it's not listed, then you're getting real-world science all over my D&D, and my catgirls aren't happy about it.

You got D&D in my real-world science!

[Spindrift]

What is the purpose of this thread anyway? We come up with creative uses of prestidigitation, and Jedipotter either responds with:


Who died and made JP the ultimate prestidigitation-authority? :smallannoyed:

Well, he's asking about other people's opinions and how they'd rule on this spell.
Then he's saying he would/wouldn't allow it to do X or Y suggestions.
In the end the entire post is founded on the idea of opinion/interpretation, and if he wants to say someone else's opinion is wrong, that's his opinion and ultimately meaningless to how you play your game. If he shoots down your interpretation cause he doesn't like it, you can shoot down his ruling if you disagree, cause it's all opinion and it won't be possible to agree unless people change their opinion.

Perhaps the title of the thread should have been "give me your opinions/interpretations/rulings on prestidigitation and I'll tell you if I'd allow them" if that was his intention when making the thread. But that's another issue.

[Spore]

Prestidigitation can do everything its description allows and no other more powerful/expensive spell already covers.

[backwaterj]

It can spice up my trail rations. This is really all I need to know.

[sideswipe]

prest can make it so you no longer need the toilet.

when you drink too much you heal the ability damage, but it does not say you heal the "hangover" so i always rule that with no in game effect except role play that characters who heal the damage from drinking still have a hangover. prest gets rid of it.

[Jormengand]

I just don't let my players use the spell. The fact that it can near-enough copy tons of other spells, even if it technically can't copy their effects exactly, is a bit much for a 0-level spell.

[Thiyr]

Using this (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) as additional presti content.


I'm of the opinion that the insta-bath is actually still quite possible, even if you're staying strictly to what's written in there. Dirt, grime, etc, are all objects. Simply lift if off you slowly, 1 pound at a time. Bam, clean'd. And you've got an hour to do it in, at that!

As far as other bits:

Icicle: I'd be fine with that, but it's gonna take more than a round to do, even with the warming bit. I'm usually willing to let parts of objects count if you've got a restriction such as the 1 pound at a time, so heating up a pound of the ice between the majority of the icicle and where its affixed should work fairly well. Doesn't even need to melt fully, given the weight, just weaken enough that it can't support itself. Given that its basically instant-heat, I'd say it would take...maybe a minute? Easily doable in presti's timeframe, but not exactly a combat trick either. Doing it the blowtorch method would go slightly faster, maybe half a minute. It's hot enough to ignite a torch and it's directional.

Pink Shadow: I'm down with that. Presti doesn't -need- to target an object, its target is dependent on what its doing. I'd give it as an extention of the linked color change bit, given that it's extra-minor, not replicating anything else aside from itself, and really doesn't do a whole heck of a lot. Easily fits under the "minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice" header.

Ritual Candle: Maybe. Depends on situation. Can other spells that don't have the caster as an origin point start inside the barrier? Then sure. Similarly, is the barrier blocking air flow? If yes, then presti can't blow it from outside, but the people inside might be running out of breathable air, and as a DM, once that call is made I'd probably roll to see just how long they have. Turn it into a new angle for the encounter.

Glowing God Marks: Sure, sounds about right. Sounds like the kind of things wizards do in class to prank each other, which again falls squarely into "minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice". Also, it's basically the sketch function. Can't really see any issues.

Darkness-on-head: I'd nix that one as presented. Even if it were darkness per the spell, that's a bit much. Now, if they're wearing glasses or, better yet, a helmet with some kinda clear face plate or some such, coloring THAT black and "blinding" them would be fine. But just making anyone blind like that, no save? Nu-uh. At best, it would be tied to a point in space rather than following them, so they could move out of it.

Light like a candle: Sure, we have precedent on it being a weaker imitation of other cantrips (mage hand vs move a pound of stuff slowly), and it's weaker than Light by a significant margin, so I've got no issues. It's at best gonna be a "oh bollocks, i didn't prep light but i have presti. Well, better than nothin'" Even if that's too much, use presti to make a candle and then light it.

Make something to cover torches: Illusion, no. That's doing even more than a standard illusion spell would. At best you'd have to do something physically blocking it.

Tiny flames: Sure, it's basically the fire finger use. All good.

Intimidation aid: Using magic for theatrics is the whole point of prestidigitation, a-okay.

Dry stuff out: Standard use, no arguments.

Cut a bowstring: At absolute best, I'd let it go if its on a non-magical bow that hasn't been drawn or is otherwise unattended. Not gonna let it interrupt attacks.

shoelaces: I'd say it would take some time, prob half a minute, but otherwise sure. It's a decent prank, and might help if you can sneakily do it before combat, but it'll be tricky to pull off at best.

iron to gold: Make it look like gold? Sure, that's just changing form, which it can already do. But it won't stay that way, and I'd probably make it not -feel- like gold. Keeps it more as a parlor trick, and forces you to be otherwise tricky if you want to fool someone with fake gold.

freeze water: Nope. The chill function can never drop temp below freezing, and even if it could you wouldn't be able to affect enough water unless it's a really, really small monster. No good.

Don't gotta poo: An amusing way to use it, though I'd say at best it delays rather than outright obviates the need to do it. I might also include heightening someone's need to whiz.

Hangover cure: Not bad. Basically letting it replicate the Alchemist's Mercy from Dragon Compendium, so I'm down.

[backwaterj]

Using this (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) as additional presti content.

Pink Shadow: I'm down with that. Presti doesn't -need- to target an object, its target is dependent on what its doing. I'd give it as an extention of the linked color change bit, given that it's extra-minor, not replicating anything else aside from itself, and really doesn't do a whole heck of a lot. Easily fits under the "minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice" header.

Strictly against RAW, but as a DM I'd make this turn anyone using said shadow for shadow walk and the like pink as well. :smallsmile:


iron to gold: Make it look like gold? Sure, that's just changing form, which it can already do. But it won't stay that way, and I'd probably make it not -feel- like gold. Keeps it more as a parlor trick, and forces you to be otherwise tricky if you want to fool someone with fake gold.

I stand corrected.

[Dalebert]

I feel like my DM gets carried away with the no duplicating other spell effects and that means he doesn't allow the finger-flame application because of Spark. Spark sucks, btw. I feel like prestidigitation should be the convenience but nearly completely useless for combat spell and it should function as a tinderbox, basically. Not a big deal. Spark, meanwhile, is not even usable to ignite a creature you just covered in flammable oil which I think, if you're going to devote a special cantrip just for igniting things, it should be usable for that and should even have like short range.

That whole deal about heating up to or cooling down 1lb of material for 1 hour thing is ripe for complications. I think the intention here was for people to heat up their tea or cool down their water or wine on a hot day.

If you heat up a rock to 140F and it STAYS there for an hour, then it's generating heat continuously, and potentially a LOT of heat. It's that whole deal about mixing magic and physics. I think the DM has to put his foot down and say it's useful for some specific things but has limits. In actuality, things cool down when you transfer the heat out of them to something else so the implication here is that it generates as much heat as necessary to stay at 140 regardless of the heat sinks around it. Stick it in a pool that's fairly cold and it will, in a relatively short time, heat the entire pool quite a bit because it will continue generating more and more heat in order to stay at 140 whereas the heat transfer is based on differential temp which would be a lot in very cold water or in ice. So yeah, the DM prolly just needs to ignore physics here to a large extent because made-up magic and real-life physics can be a nightmare. He can maybe just put reasonable limits on the total amount of heat it can generate depending on the environment, e.g. it's not going to keep you warm during a raging blizzard but it might save you having to make a fire on a chilly night.

[Alex12]

As far as I'm concerned, Prestidigitation is the go-to spell for non-combat stuff. PF specifically calls out magical laundry services as being based on Prestidigitation. You can use it to make your Eternal Rations taste like bacon. You could use it to clean just about anything, and avoid showing up in front of the king while covered in blood and viscera from your enemies. I once used Detect Magic and the warming function of and Eternal Wand of Prestidigitation to determine if Knock would work on a certain lock made of an unusual material that seemed to absorb/deflect/neutralize magic, (I was a Dread Necromancer and didn't have Knock on my spell list)

[Troacctid]

Glowing God Marks: Sure, sounds about right. Sounds like the kind of things wizards do in class to prank each other, which again falls squarely into "minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice". Also, it's basically the sketch function. Can't really see any issues.
This one should be a no-go because it duplicates the effect of another spell--Arcane Mark. Which, in fairness, is still a minor trick that novice spellcasters use for practice, but you can't just let Prestidigitation stand in for any other cantrip effect ever, or there'd be no point to cantrips other than Prestidigitation.


I feel like my DM gets carried away with the no duplicating other spell effects and that means he doesn't allow the finger-flame application because of Spark. Spark sucks, btw. I feel like prestidigitation should be the convenience but nearly completely useless for combat spell and it should function as a tinderbox, basically. Not a big deal. Spark, meanwhile, is not even usable to ignite a creature you just covered in flammable oil which I think, if you're going to devote a special cantrip just for igniting things, it should be usable for that and should even have like short range.
I believe Spark is a Pathfinder spell, so it's not an issue in 3.5. :smallsmile:

[Brookshw]

What is the purpose of this thread anyway? We come up with creative uses of prestidigitation, and Jedipotter either responds with:

or:

Who died and made JP the ultimate prestidigitation-authority? :smallannoyed:

Eh, we're all welcome to speak up on how we'd handle/rule it.
Clean: yup
Icicle: probably not.
Pink shadow: go for it.
Break circle: Nah.
Glowing mark: Nah, at least I doubt it. Would want to check something.

[Dalebert]

This one should be a no-go because it duplicates the effect of another spell--Arcane Mark.

But it wouldn't duplicate Arcane Mark. It can't be invisible and it wouldn't last forever, at least not glowing marks. Obviously prestidigitation can draw things because it can change colors of things but it would just be a mundane mark; not one that can be invisible and that radiates magic... forever. This feels like another case of reading too much into the "can't duplicate another spell effect". It's doing something similar but not as good. That's not duplicating which would mean there'd be no point in ever casting the other spell.

[backwaterj]

But it wouldn't duplicate Arcane Mark. It can't be invisible and it wouldn't last forever, at least not glowing marks. Obviously prestidigitation can draw things because it can change colors of things but it would just be a mundane mark; not one that can be invisible and that radiates magic... forever. This feels like another case of reading too much into the "can't duplicate another spell effect". It's doing something similar but not as good. That's not duplicating which would mean there'd be no point in ever casting the other spell.

Arcane Mark cannot be dispelled, placing it at a significantly higher power level for that particular effect at the same spell level. The glowing mark effect seems to combine the writing and light source functions of prestidigitation; as such, I'd personally allow it with a saving throw.

[Debatra]

Do we really want to be that strict with the "can't duplicate other spell effects" part? Let's take that to the logical extreme. Here's something Prestidigitation can explicitly do:


A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material.

But then it supposedly can't do that because the Telekinesis spell exists. Some people are in effect saying "nope, Telekinesis can move things so Prestidigitation can't".
---
Back on topic, I once asked a DM if, since the tumblers of most locks weigh less than a pound, I could use Prestidigitation to pick locks. He said I could. I never got a chance to try it, but it was interesting.

[Dalebert]

Do we really want to be that strict with the "can't duplicate other spell effects" part?

But then it supposedly can't do that because the Telekinesis spell exists. Some people are in effect saying "nope, Telekinesis can move things so Prestidigitation can't".

Exactly. It explicitly does some things like that. I interpret "can't duplicate other spell effects" to mean the desired effect would essentially make the other spell pointless to even exist. A cantrip level of power half-assed similarity to another spell is not duplicating the effects of that spell.

[Thiyr]

Exactly. It explicitly does some things like that. I interpret "can't duplicate other spell effects" to mean the desired effect would essentially make the other spell pointless to even exist. A cantrip level of power half-assed similarity to another spell is not duplicating the effects of that spell.


Agreed. Lifting something that weighs 1 pound very slowly is similar to, say, mage hand, but it doesn't -duplicate- mage hand. If we want to get all english-y, "Make or be an exact copy of" is the OED definition of duplicate. Because you're not trying to make it indellible. Also, it's still a valid use, given that it is specifically called out as a potential option:


Sketch: You create a two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire. You can leave the image hanging in the air, in which case it is immobile, or place it on a mobile object, such as a shield. The image can be no more than 1-foot square, and it lasts a maximum of 1 hour.



NOTE: Specifically for purposes of prestidigitation, I consider instances of object to include creatures. We are given a great deal of freedom with prestidigitation, and the target is left vague. Mostly 'cause it's still situational at best for it to actually do anything.

[Daishain]

Back on topic, I once asked a DM if, since the tumblers of most locks weigh less than a pound, I could use Prestidigitation to pick locks. He said I could. I never got a chance to try it, but it was interesting.
I'm not sure I'd agree, at least not until you explained your technique a bit further.

You could certainly move the tumblers around, but they each need to be lifted, separately, to varying heights. Prestidigitation seems to indicate that it can only lift one object at a time. While I would be willing to rule that the tumblers could be treated as a single object, you would have to move them all together.

Solve that problem, and there's the issue of knowing how much to move the things. Just moving everything up to the top won't work, and last I checked, even blindsense won't let you see inside the lock to know the setpoints.

[geekintheground]

I'm not sure I'd agree, at least not until you explained your technique a bit further.

You could certainly move the tumblers around, but they each need to be lifted, separately, to varying heights. Prestidigitation seems to indicate that it can only lift one object at a time. While I would be willing to rule that the tumblers could be treated as a single object, you would have to move them all together.

Solve that problem, and there's the issue of knowing how much to move the things. Just moving everything up to the top won't work, and last I checked, even blindsense won't let you see inside the lock to know the setpoints.

isnt that what the clicks are for? (full disclosure, i dont know anything about lock picking)

[backwaterj]

I'm not sure I'd agree, at least not until you explained your technique a bit further.

You could certainly move the tumblers around, but they each need to be lifted, separately, to varying heights. Prestidigitation seems to indicate that it can only lift one object at a time. While I would be willing to rule that the tumblers could be treated as a single object, you would have to move them all together.

Solve that problem, and there's the issue of knowing how much to move the things. Just moving everything up to the top won't work, and last I checked, even blindsense won't let you see inside the lock to know the setpoints.

Hmm, arcane friends, Open Lock, and the assist rules? Though line of sight/effect might be a problem; prestidigitation can't ignore the basic rules of spellcasting.

[Vortenger]

Agree as well. Also, something every spellcaster seems to forget is that spells with Verbal component (like Prestidigitation) must have said component spoken "in a strong voice". Unless no one there had ranks in Spellcraft and were also deaf, there's no way "no one noticed", especially since presti has a range of only 10ft. (or he had that one skill trick)

You should read the section in Races of Stone that says with the right skill check (pg. 133) you can do exactly that thing that you claim can't be done. With a simple Sleight of Hand check. It does not require a skill trick, nor a feat, or deaf commoners without spellcraft for that matter. Cheers!

[Alex12]

Agreed. Lifting something that weighs 1 pound very slowly is similar to, say, mage hand, but it doesn't -duplicate- mage hand. If we want to get all english-y, "Make or be an exact copy of" is the OED definition of duplicate. Because you're not trying to make it indellible. Also, it's still a valid use, given that it is specifically called out as a potential option:

This makes perfect sense. After all, I think we can safely assume that Wish (and Limited Wish, Miracle, Reality Revision, and Bend Reality) can easily do literally anything Prestidigitation can. But that doesn't mean Prestidigitation is incapable of doing anything. It's just a matter of degree.

[jedipotter]

It should be noted, that if the spell is used creatively, the DM is permitted to allow up to a +2 circumstance bonus to a given skill check, but this is the full extent of any benefit the spell can grant. It cannot add to saving throws, to hit, damage, or any other roll. Just a +2 circumstance bonus to skill rolls, if the DM is impressed enough.

I'd allow this.



Wookie-ranger
A hole opens up in a bucket.

This one is fine.


The examples of torture I've heard are things like making insects that crawl all over them and/or underneath their skin (doing no damage, just being psychologically scaring), or chinese water torture-esque things.

I will go with you can't cast the spell ''on'' a creature. I'd allow the ''water torture'', though as the spell can move small amounts of water as per the description.




Silverbrow Human Wizard 1
Feats:
Fell Drain (1st)
Practical Metamagic (Fell Drain) (Human)
Improved Initiative (Wizard variant)

Your first level spells are Fell draining prestidigitation. Every turn, for an hour, it can shoot a small jet of fire that does 1 point of damage and inflicts a negative level.

So clever use or abuse? I'd disallow it....it is just too much.


Then move one pound of air (lots and lots of volume) away from a person's square, and start them suffocating.

No, does not work.

[Judge_Worm]

Prestidigitation and lockpicking is a no-go for me. Modern locks at least have varying sized pins that have to fully compress the spring, the spring exerts more than a single pound of force. I would however allow this with mage's hand in a combination with stick, and the use of a small flat surface (like a pocket knife) to actually turn the lock (for simple locks). Modern locks are more complex, but fairly easy to pick if you're willing to break them, most simple locks can be busted with just one half a pair of scissors being jammed into them. The best bet either way is to through some cross-class skills into lockpicking, or picking up craft (locksmith).

Pink shadows is a no, pink ground where the shadow should be is ok however.

Icicle is ok, but I would give the target a +5 circumstance bonus on its reflex save because you were chanting loudly in order to use presti.

God marking on the head is a no, I explicitly disallow presti on nonvoluntary living creatures, undead and constructs are fair game however. Same for the burning hand thing, unless the player used it on the air around the hand which would have the same exact end result, I'm just picky.

I'd allow most the other ones.

[jedipotter]

What is the purpose of this thread anyway? We come up with creative uses of prestidigitation, and Jedipotter either responds with:

Yea, I just want to see how others rule. Just look how many would allow the pink shadow or instabath.



Who died and made JP the ultimate prestidigitation-authority? :smallannoyed:

Raistlin Majere

[Thiyr]

Prestidigitation and lockpicking is a no-go for me. Modern locks at least have varying sized pins that have to fully compress the spring, the spring exerts more than a single pound of force. I would however allow this with mage's hand in a combination with stick, and the use of a small flat surface (like a pocket knife) to actually turn the lock (for simple locks). Modern locks are more complex, but fairly easy to pick if you're willing to break them, most simple locks can be busted with just one half a pair of scissors being jammed into them. The best bet either way is to through some cross-class skills into lockpicking, or picking up craft (locksmith)

I think the intent seemed more like using prestidigitation in place of thieves tools rather than as replacing Knock. And at that point, I'm down with it, still needs Open Lock. And 'cause i'm ornery when it comes to wording, D&D typically uses pounds in the context of mass rather than force, so it wouldn't matter how strong the springs are. So long as the pins weigh less than a pound, you're good. And if they weigh more than a pound, I'm pretty sure you could just climb -into- the lock and pick it by hand.

As far as more uses:

Torture: I'm down. Still feels right up the alley of minor tricks, and any damage done is basically self-inflicted at that point.

Move a pound of air: Clever, but does not work as intended. To demonstrate, a pint of water is about a pound. Go to the nearest large body of water, and scoop a pint of it out, and lift it out slowly. Note how the water all flows back in? Air's gonna do the same thing. Especially given how it gets lifted -slowly-. Now, at that point you're basically just making a light breeze, which could have its own value, but still.

Negative Levels: Nope. Even in Tome and Blood, no mention of doing damage with presti comes up. Nothing breaks the "presti doesn't do damage" rule, so you're gonna have to stick to the old standbys if you want to drain people's life force. I recommend Ray of Frost, personally, just so you can start tacking on split ray on top of twin. Because super charging your cantrips is fun!

Also, if you've never had someone use prestidigitation to give your cape a dramatic billow at the appropriate time, I don't know what you're doing with your life.

[blackspeeker]

I used it to give a town food poisoning by making them think what they were eating was fresh and delicious instead of spoiled rotten.

[jedipotter]

Blow snot out of your nose that turns into a butterfly. Later, when the duration expires, it will turn back. I hope nobody is playing with it. Remember: animal secretions fall under the animal kingdom.

I'd allow this one...


we found out the entrance to a room was guarded by a trap that blasted an area if anything went through a space not walking on the ground. We lured the guards a few rooms down to this door and I made a pebble float in the space. Turns out the trap was a rocks fall everyone dies... that missed us and hit the guards.

Ok, with floating a pebble....


I like to use it as a gas mask, creating either small amounts of oxygen in my lungs or a bubble of clean air around my head.

No, way too powerful.


We had an adventure on a mountain where there was a bunch of dead magic zones scattered around everywhere, so we used prestidigitation to paint a bunch of arrows and parts of our clothes bright orange so we could easily tell where magic was working and where it wasn't.

This works just fine and is a good idea.



Make materials separate from water to get pure water. Now, this doesn’t work with anything that dissolves in the liquid or chemically reacts. If you have muddy water, you can filter out the mud. If you have poison that dissolves in water, you are out of luck.



I'd allow this....but, it sure gives a boost to science in D&D.


I built an engine.
Warming/cooling nonliving matter(We used Mercury) in order to alter internal pressure, thus moving cylinders. It's a basic combustion engine, but without any of the fuel.

I guess this would work by RAW....this would make for some nice magic items....

[Segev]

Flavoring (and texturing, if you're clever and maybe with an appropriate craft check) food is a favorite use.

It can be a poor man's Endure Elements. It's not perfect, but you can get a lot out of having self-heating mittens and hats and coats and the like. As well as self-cooling ones.

+2 circumstance bonus on disguise checks is easily doable by altering hair color, skin pigmentation, or quick-dying your clothes.


The pink shadow is a bit questionable; you're better off "cursing" somebody with a hideously stupid hair color (pink with green polka-dots, perhaps).

Definitely can light a fire in an easily-ignited substance (oil, kindling, etc). Shouldn't be able to do damage on its own. But burning oil DOES do damage, so a two-step process with Prestidigitation helping provide you with the mundane fire-weapon works.

The fake gold coin is obviously fake, per Prestidigitation's rules on creating things. Could conceivably be used to help disguise an item, however, by making it a "fake gold coin" rather than whatever it was. Particularly clever to make an actually valuable thing look like an "obviously fake" thing of value, so people discount it as not really valuable after all. +2 circumstance bonus on the bluff, at the least.

I'd allow Prestidigitation to let you write in the air with your finger, and create hovering images (to the limits of your skill at drawing, again with up to a +2 circumstance bonus). Nothing that's going to fool anybody, but you don't need a convincing illusion to show somebody some doodles that help you get your point across, or to make a picture that helps identify somebody you're capable of drawing.


And Jedipotter is the arbiter of Prestidigitation for her game(s). This thread is about anybody who wants to saying what they would or wouldn't allow and why; she's commenting on her own allowances. I so far have agreed with most of them (though the disallowance of Prestidigitation igniting a flammable substance is one with which I disagree).

[aethel27]

To copy Jedi Potter's secret house rules......... *whistle*

in all seriousness to create back ups of important document before turning them over to "friendly" guard captains or what have you (Severe case of paranoia is helpful with campagins where everything IS out to get you :D )

Annoying the bad guy during his speech by casting a silent predistigation that makes his armor turn all poketdotty....or see through like glass :P

heating up my frozen cream pies....

lighting torches carried by my mage's hand

or causing distraction by moving 1pound of rock onto a badguy's head so I can cast a silent pilfering hand....
generally find a way to cause chaos.

[jedipotter]

Put a lump of poison in the bottom of a goblet. Shape the goblet to cover over the poison in a sealed compartment. When the spell expires, the goblet returns to its normal shape, releasing the poison.

I'd allow this one, and it sure is a good idea...



Create a field of fake caltrops that you have no problem running through, but may give pursuers pause.

This would work just fine....



Make smoke pour out of someone’s nose. Capture it in a bottle. Claim to have captured their soul. Have the smoke in the bottle resemble them and pound on the glass.

This would all be within the spell by RAW, so yes....



Replace screws and bolts with conjured screws and bolts. Just enough to hold up something, so it collapses under additional weight. A bridge or balcony for example.

Yes, and a nice one too....



Evaporate a glass of liquid. (1 cubic foot/round), Evaporate just the alcohol from your drink so it appears like you are drinking, Evaporate the water out of something to leave behind the concentrated form of whatever isn’t water in the liquid..

All work and all are nice....




Make a spellcraft roll to dry out a potion until it’s just a highly concentrated drop of liquid. Put it in a fake tooth. Crunch down on it when you really need a +4 to your strength or something. Failing at the spellcraft roll means you ruin the potion while trying to concentrate it. (DC 20 check.)

No. Reducing a potion down to a drop is way too powerful.

[Nessa Ellenesse]

Agreed. Prestidigitation can reasonably be expanded to similar minor abilities. Tome and Blood explicitly did, and the "a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects" clause implies so. I may describe it as decidedly unpleasant, though, as if you were being scoured with a scrub-brush and ammonia.

The icicle thing is dubious because of the "cannot deal damage" clause. If that's okay because the effect is indirect, it's fine. According to Tome and Blood's web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), you can "increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal." As long as the thing isn't below -8° F, it can be melted.
g

I disagree. The scrub brush and Ammonia would make it do damage akin to acid splash. Also clean is did not make it from 3rd to 3.5 and was rolled into presditdigitation. Mend does not clean. Create Water Creates gallons of water so I don't see how acting like a damp rag and soap would be duplicating this because you can't drink it!

My DM allowed us to use it to clean people. Have you read sci fi (or more accurately space opera) books where to save water aboad a star ship the show does not use water. I see it more as the magical version of that only since showers did not exist in preindustrial times. It just makes it dissappear leaving whatever surfase clean.

[TheMonocleRogue]

I used it once to change the flavor of a potion of poison. Good times.

[Bronk]

Wow, there are a lot of good uses for Prestidigitation on here!

I don't think I would allow the lockpick aspect though, unless the character both passed an open lock skill check and used actual lock picks to get around the line of sight/effect issues.

I wouldn't allow the 'mark on the forehead' bit either, especially without allowing the target a will save or something.

I don't think the issue with 'speaking in a strong voice' needs to ever come up though, since the spell could be cast up to an hour ahead of time and grants you continuous access to the various minor powers and tricks.

[Dalebert]

When I heard the glowing runes part, it made me think of an old Vincent Price movie called The Raven. It opens with a wizard sitting in his chambers, moving his finger and drawing a 2D raven in the air. Prestidigitation should be able to do that. He was just amusing himself (and it was a bit of blatant foreshadowing so maybe it was reflective of him having a psychic experience and contemplating it). It shouldn't ever be convincing. No one should walk in and be frightened by a cartoon lion that you drew in the air with your finger. It's not "duplicating the effects" of Silent Image. Yes, of course you could draw in the air with Silent Image but you can do so much more that Prestidigitation can't come close to imitating, just as you can do so much more with Telekinesis than slowly move 1 lb of matter.

As a DM, I would make the call that since it's hovering in the air, it would dissipate as soon as he stopped concentrating, but I'd let him do glowing drawings on a surface that last an hour, and fairly permanent if they weren't glowing.

[Brookshw]

I used it to give a town food poisoning by making them think what they were eating was fresh and delicious instead of spoiled rotten.

Multiple castings or single?

[blackspeeker]

Multiple castings or single?

I legitimately can't remember at this point, was about six years ago at this point. And while we have a lax group, so it was probably one casting, now that you asked I could see the argument being made where multiple uses of the spell would be needed.

[Brookshw]

I legitimately can't remember at this point, was about six years ago at this point. And while we have a lax group, so it was probably one casting, now that you asked I could see the argument being made where multiple uses of the spell would be needed.

Mostly just curiosity on my part though I have to chuckle that multiple casting of presdi could likewise have raised the temp and killed off food born pathogens. Of the irony.

Hmmm, on that note actually that would sorta duplicate purify food, probably shouldn't fly.

[Dalebert]

Hmmm, on that note actually that would sorta duplicate purify food, probably shouldn't fly.

See, this is more of what I'm talking about. I might agree with you based on it's a stretch in that particular situation but not for the idea that it's duplicating purify F&D. Making bad food taste better vs. making spoiled food actually edible--clearly not duplicating the effect of the other spell. The spell explicitly states it can alter flavors.

It may very well be a stretch that truly putrefied food seemed a-okay and people gobbled it down. Seems like it would at least look completely unappetizing if it was spoiled enough and if it normally tasted absolutely foul because it was spoiled badly enough (did you ever get a mouthful of sour milk?), then I would not allow the spell to alter a taste enough to overcome that. Food that was just moderately spoiled but wouldn't make it past a careful inspection, probably. It should be able to handle that, but certainly not "It has green stuph growing on it" or milk with curdles. Just as I would put reasonable limits on how much it can alter temperature, I'd put reasonable limits on altering flavor.

[Deadline]

I try to find ways to tell my players "yes", rather than crushing attempts at creativity. So I generally say ok to anything that doesn't duplicate another spell effect, break the world, or fall outside the bounds of what 0-level spells seem to be capable of. I can't really envision why it couldn't be used to clean a person, so sure, that works. I'm a big fan of the creativity this spell brings out in players, and have noticed that when players feel like their creative solutions are considered (within reason), they tend to be more engaged and invested in the game.

[Thiyr]

It may very well be a stretch that truly putrefied food seemed a-okay and people gobbled it down. Seems like it would at least look completely unappetizing if it was spoiled enough and if it normally tasted absolutely foul because it was spoiled badly enough (did you ever get a mouthful of sour milk?), then I would not allow the spell to alter a taste enough to overcome that. Food that was just moderately spoiled but wouldn't make it past a careful inspection, probably. It should be able to handle that, but certainly not "It has green stuph growing on it" or milk with curdles. Just as I would put reasonable limits on how much it can alter temperature, I'd put reasonable limits on altering flavor.

I wouldn't let it change how it looks, but it does call out making spoiled food taste fine explicitly. Heck, they say it can make a -stick- taste amazing.

As far as heat-purifying your food, idunno what temp stuff starts dying off at, or how long it takes, but it is capped at 140F, iirc, and I don't think that's high enough. Maybe it is, but gut reaction is no.

[Sartharina]

I can't imagine NOT using Presdigitation as a mundane insta-bath! D:

I don't see how illuminating as a candle is too far for Presdigitation - it's too weak to step on Light and Dancing Light's spell's area (Just as the 1 lb movement is too weak to step on Mage Hand's stuff).

As for flavoring spoiled stuff - I don't think it can do that. It can add flavor, but not remove flavor (A stick has very little flavor, and you can augment it with another flavor to taste good). So, you'd get mixed signals.

[Bronk]

When I heard the glowing runes part, it made me think of an old Vincent Price movie called The Raven.

I like that! Or diary Tom Riddle writing 'I am Lord Voldemort' in the air, even with the part where he rearranges the letters.

[Dalebert]

As for flavoring spoiled stuff - I don't think it can do that. It can add flavor, but not remove flavor (A stick has very little flavor, and you can augment it with another flavor to taste good). So, you'd get mixed signals.

I mostly agree, but it's viable in mild cases. It can theoretically cover up for a moderate amount of spoilage. Food can be mildly spoiled, kind of right on the border of what will cause food poisoning for some people but not all depending on their tolerance, and be seasoned enough that you don't really notice.

Countries where they use a lot of spices in their foods are also countries where their meat tends to be not quite as fresh. There's a reason for all that spice. People can actually build up a tolerance for spoiled food to a point. It's while first-worlders visit 2nd and 3rd world countries and immediately get food poisoning when all the locals are fine.

[The Random NPC]

I feel like my DM gets carried away with the no duplicating other spell effects and that means he doesn't allow the finger-flame application because of Spark. Spark sucks, btw. I feel like prestidigitation should be the convenience but nearly completely useless for combat spell and it should function as a tinderbox, basically. Not a big deal. Spark, meanwhile, is not even usable to ignite a creature you just covered in flammable oil which I think, if you're going to devote a special cantrip just for igniting things, it should be usable for that and should even have like short range.
...

Wait, Spark doesn't have a range? Like, not even within 15 feet or something? *checks* The PRD says it has a short range, maybe they changed it?

[Brookshw]

I wouldn't let it change how it looks, but it does call out making spoiled food taste fine explicitly. Heck, they say it can make a -stick- taste amazing.

As far as heat-purifying your food, idunno what temp stuff starts dying off at, or how long it takes, but it is capped at 140F, iirc, and I don't think that's high enough. Maybe it is, but gut reaction is no.

Not near a book and didn't recall the cap, but yeah, 140 isn't high enough

[Sartharina]

From my food poisoning lectures in middle school (Stupid movie will forever annoy me), 140 is merely at the top of the'danger zone' of food spoilage.

[Thiyr]

As for flavoring spoiled stuff - I don't think it can do that. It can add flavor, but not remove flavor (A stick has very little flavor, and you can augment it with another flavor to taste good). So, you'd get mixed signals.

To bring up the relevant quote,


Flavor: You give a substance a better, worse, or different flavor. You could, for example, make porridge taste like lobster bisque. You do not change the substance's quality or wholesomeness. Spoiled food remains spoiled, a poisoned drink is still deadly, and inedible material provides no nourishment -- you can make a twig taste like steak, but it remains a twig.

The real question here is how we define "removing" flavor, I'd think. But overall, I'd say that twigs don't have no flavor, just one that isn't appealing. Porridge is bland, but it's still got flavor. And that all fits under "different". You could make the greatest meal in the world taste rotten, or make five-month-old raw aardvark meat taste amazing. But I don't think it's really that big of a jump, especially given how subjective the strength of flavors can be (if nothing else just due to exposure. That whole acclimating to things you eat a lot bit).

[Psyren]

Giving spoiled or nearly-spoiled food a "better" flavor would necessarily involve it tasting less spoiled. You are not "removing" the flavor, you are changing it.

[Segev]

Change always involves both creation and destruction, at least in small amounts. And often in combination.

Thus, "changing" a flavor is always going to include removing some aspects and adding others.

[Bloodgruve]

One of my daily eternal wand charges is slated to clean off our dwarven barbarian. DM is fine with it and the party is greatful. Best gold I spent in the campaign so far.

Blood~

[Vogonjeltz]

Also, it's still a valid use, given that it is specifically called out as a potential option:


Sketch: You create a two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire. You can leave the image hanging in the air, in which case it is immobile, or place it on a mobile object, such as a shield. The image can be no more than 1-foot square, and it lasts a maximum of 1 hour.

Where is this from? If it's 3.0 content it's not valid for 3.5 as Prestidigitation was reprinted for 3.5, which overwrites any 3.0 additions.

For my money, this is what Prestidigitation can do:

1) A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material.
2) It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round.
3) It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material.
4) Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial.

And restrictions on it:
1) It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters.
2) The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components.
3) Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects.
4) Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

[jedipotter]

Need to pick a lock? Hover a handful of water into the lock with prestidigitation and then freeze it solid with prestidigitation while holding it there. As it expands, it will burst the lock.



I might let this work on a very crude lock, but not nothing commonly found. A farmers shack, sure, but nothing like a bank vault.

[TheCrowing1432]

Icicle:Possible but it would take a long time, if its a huge icicle its anchored to the ceiling by millions of years of being frozen, one pound of 140 degree heat isnt going to budge it anytime soon. Better off just lobbing a fireball.

Pink Shadow: I would allow this. Some of prestginations minor effects already alter physics as it is, I dont see altering the color of someones shadow as being out of its range.

Ritual Candle: If its protected against magic, wouldnt prestiginations wind be blocked since its technically created through a magical effect? This seems to be the scenarios issue, not prestidgination.

Glowing God Marks: You can change someones hair color without any sort of save, so I dont see why you couldnt do this. Obviously the god marks would be crude and inaccurate, but from a distance they might withstand scrutiny.

Darkness-on-head: Nope. Imitates Darkness as the spell.

Light like a candle: Thats fine, its actually one of the uses described in Tome and Blood.

Make something to cover torches: No, you'd have to create a pound of crude cloth or something to physically block the torches, couldnt use illusions.

Tiny flames: See Light a candle.

Intimidation aid: Id allow it.

Dry stuff out: Standard use

Cut a bowstring: Kinda iffy. A magical bow I would say no, If the bow is wielded I would say no. But if the bow was unattented, (laying around or whatever) then yes, though if you saw a bow laying around why wouldnt you just cut it with a knife, or take it.....

shoelaces:

Tie: You magically tie a firm knot (as though taking 10 with the Use Rope skill) in a thread, string, cord, rope, or cable up to 10 feet long. You can knot together two such objects if they're within 1 foot of each other.

Yep described as in Tome and Blood

iron to gold: Iron and Gold are both metals. Under the rules of prestiginations altering abilities, this is perfectly fine, however the gold is crude as per the rules of prestingiations creation rules.

freeze water:

Chill: You reduce the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never below freezing (32° F). After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal.

Don't gotta poo: Prestidgination doesnt destroy objects so how would this work?

Hangover cure: Hmm....id let this go.

[Jowgen]

I personally am a big fan of using it to divert the attention of unsuspecting NPCs, such as guards.

The 'tinklings of etheral music' bit is fun for subtle occasion -playing flight of the bumble bee by their right ear- while the sketch function has basically limitless applications in this. It creates a up to 1-foot square large "two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire". Simply imagine something that is likely to grab an NPC's attention for a bit (e.g. text on wall that looks like its written in blood for a guard), and while they're preoccupied, they take a -5 penalty to spot checks, while you sneak past, steal their wallet etc.

Obviously can't be used to distract a spellcaster though, as per the spells limitations, which is fair enough since someone channelling the arcane powers of the cosmos wouldn't really bother to take note of a playboy centrefold figment that appeared to their right.

[TheCrowing1432]

I personally am a big fan of using it to divert the attention of unsuspecting NPCs, such as guards.

The 'tinklings of etheral music' bit is fun for subtle occasion -playing flight of the bumble bee by their right ear- while the sketch function has basically limitless applications in this. It creates a up to 1-foot square large "two-dimensional visual figment of whatever you desire". Simply imagine something that is likely to grab an NPC's attention for a bit (e.g. text on wall that looks like its written in blood for a guard), and while they're preoccupied, they take a -5 penalty to spot checks, while you sneak past, steal their wallet etc.

Obviously can't be used to distract a spellcaster though, as per the spells limitations, which is fair enough since someone channelling the arcane powers of the cosmos wouldn't really bother to take note of a playboy centrefold figment that appeared to their right.

.....the use you described is Ghost Sound.

[Jowgen]

.....the use you described is Ghost Sound.

Ghost sound creates as much noise as 4 humans per caster level, and can be "virtually any type of sound within the volume limit". Prestidigitation specifically calls out having "producing tinklings of ethereal music" as one of its common applications, which depending on reading equates to something like a whistle or a crappy radio. It's the exact same concept as with Mage Hand.

Also, as for my other unmentioned use of using visual figments, it's the same in regard to silent image (two-dimensional 1-foot figment vs four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level large figment).

[Sartharina]

Don't gotta poo: Prestidgination doesnt destroy objects so how would this work?The cleaning function!

[Dr. Cliché]

The cleaning function!

Wait... are you cleaning their colon? :smalleek:

[backwaterj]

Wait... are you cleaning their colon? :smalleek:

Why not? It's an object that takes up less than a 1-foot cube! :smallamused:

[Brookshw]

Wait... are you cleaning their colon? :smalleek:

Are you sure you really want to know? :smallwink:

[Segev]

The self-cleaning diaper which need never be changed would be a BIG hit with parents and nannies everywhere.

[Dalebert]

Wait... are you cleaning their colon? :smalleek:

Bad idea. There are symbiotic organisms, flora that aid with digestion in very important ways. Wait, this might be considered an attack! Even so, there are line of sight issues here unless... I don't wanna go there.

[dascarletm]

I think the interrupting of the ritual is brilliant. Though I like the idea of people protecting against big obvious threats, but forgetting and leaving a hole for something that noone would expect. Like prestidigitation of all things. I mean who expects their enemies to try and attack them with that?:smallbiggrin:

[Dalebert]

The self-cleaning diaper which need never be changed would be a BIG hit with parents and nannies everywhere.

That would also be a big hit with busy adventurers on the go, or really just about anyone wealthy enough to afford one. When you're lounging in your expansive den by the fire, smoking a premium cigar, in your comfy leather chair, who wants to get up for a poop?

http://i.imgur.com/MdPgsVy.jpg

[dascarletm]

That would also be a big hit with busy adventurers on the go, or really just about anyone wealthy enough to afford one. When you're lounging in your expansive den by the fire, smoking a premium cigar, in your comfy leather chair, who wants to get up for a poop?

http://i.imgur.com/MdPgsVy.jpg

You Sir Dalebert are amazing.
I think you just won my heart and soul.
Wait, I gave my heart to my wife already, so just the soul.
Oh, dang it, that's been promised to other powers...
Hmmm... Well I have some gum so here, have that.

You get gum.

[Sir Chuckles]

Bad idea. There are symbiotic organisms, flora that aid with digestion in very important ways. Wait, this might be considered an attack! Even so, there are line of sight issues here unless... I don't wanna go there.

Arseplodemancer takes magical training?

[FabulousFizban]

I prestidigitate the fluid in his eyes inky black! (Or his pupils white if it has to be something I can see)

If you use a ring of prestidigitate, is the thing permanently prestidigitated? If so, I prestidigitate your drink cold so that when you drink it, it absorbs all the heat from your body and you die of hypothermia!

[Ionbound]

Theoretically, if you can get line of sight to the tumblers of a lock, it takes less that a pound of force to move them...

[Dalebert]

You get gum.

Not gonna knock it. It's more than I usually get for a post. :smalltongue:


If you use a ring of prestidigitate, is the thing permanently prestidigitated? If so, I prestidigitate your drink cold so that when you drink it, it absorbs all the heat from your body and you die of hypothermia!

When they said you can cool or heat a lb of material, I think this is exactly what they had in mind, though as usual, they did not consider all the ramifications of the physics. Technically, this is exactly what would happen if you cool your drink on a hot day. I talked about this in some thread about prestidigitation. I can't recall if it was this one. There are several floating around right now.

[lsfreak]

Multiple castings or single?

Doesn't matter. One casting lets you preform any prestidigitation effects for an hour.

[Brookshw]

Doesn't matter. One casting lets you preform any prestidigitation effects for an hour.
Yes, the effect lasts an hour but it does specify a pound which I'm interpreting as a single casting can only be affecting one pound at a time, hence multiple castings being required to flavor enough food for a large number of people.

[ekarney]

Create a pound of Acetylene in an adjacent square to an enemy.

Not technically a weapon, nor am i suffocating them with it, I just want to have someone throw a torch at it ASAP.

Alternatively, create the Higgs-Boson Particle!

[Brookshw]

Alternatively, create the Higgs-Boson Particle!

Hehe, I can see it now. Standing in front of a wizard committee, "behold, proof the particle exists!".

/confused looking wizards stare at one another.

"Cough. Sorry old boy but we're not sure what to make of this. We communed aeons ago and asked if it existed. It's rather well documented really."

[Dalebert]

Create a pound of Acetylene in an adjacent square to an enemy.

Not technically a weapon, nor am i suffocating them with it, I just want to have someone throw a torch at it ASAP.

Alternatively, create the Higgs-Boson Particle!

It would create "obviously fake" Acetylene and an "obviously fake" Higgs-Boson Particle.

[Dalebert]

Yes, the effect lasts an hour but it does specify a pound which I'm interpreting as a single casting can only be affecting one pound at a time, hence multiple castings being required to flavor enough food for a large number of people.

Actually...


Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/prestidigitation--2901/).

You can keep doing stuph for an hour so it's 1 lb of food per round. It states this explicitly for cleaning in the sentence before, i.e. "color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round" and remains understood thereafter. You can do some simple trick each round and those are just some examples to get an idea. The duration of those types of effects is actually instantaneous, i.e. once something is clean, it doesn't get dirty an hour later. Once something is seasoned, it doesn't become unseasoned. The crappy versions of objects it creates now exist, just like a conjured wall of stone.

[Brookshw]

Actually...



You can keep doing stuph for an hour so it's 1 lb of food per round. It states this explicitly for cleaning in the sentence before, i.e. "color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round" and remains understood thereafter. You can do some simple trick each round and those are just some examples to get an idea. The duration of those types of effects is actually instantaneous, i.e. once something is clean, it doesn't get dirty an hour later. Once something is seasoned, it doesn't become unseasoned. The crappy versions of objects it creates now exist, just like a conjured wall of stone.

Interesting point. I suppose by the same vein you could levitate 1 1 pound object a round for each round and be surrounded by, say, a mass of daggers.

[Segev]

Interesting point. I suppose by the same vein you could levitate 1 1 pound object a round for each round and be surrounded by, say, a mass of daggers.

Since the effect is instantaneous, nothing prevents prevailing conditions from affecting the items after you stop affecting them with Prestidigitation. So levitating a dagger one round, then levitating another next round, the first would fall to the ground as gravity took over when you stopped levitating it. Similar to how drying a cloth doesn't prevent it from getting soaked again if you are standing in the rain when you do it.

Furthermore, per the last line of the spell, "Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour." So flavors, colors, and conjurations all disappear after an hour.

Interestingly, it doesn't say "when the spell ends." It says "after 1 hour." So you could create an obviously fake gold coin on the last round of your hour of Prestidigitation, and it would stay in existence for an hour.

It also suggests that the object stays chilled or warmed for an hour, rather than being an instantaneous effect. I think I'd rule it to be instantaneous, myself, anyway, but that would definitely be a house rule. (Nothing stopping you from chilling or warming it again if it gets too close to room temperature for your liking while your spell is still allowing you to perform minor magical tricks, though.)

[Dalebert]

Interesting point. I suppose by the same vein you could levitate 1 1 pound object a round for each round and be surrounded by, say, a mass of daggers.

This is why I said "those types of effects". I thought the difference between those types of effects and a continuous effect was fairly clear. Obviously when you move something, say slide it across the table, it doesn't move back to where it was an hour later, but moving something up and keeping it there in defiance of gravity requires a continuous effect with a duration, and in this case, continuous concentration.


Furthermore, per the last line of the spell, "Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour." So flavors, colors, and conjurations all disappear after an hour.

Good clarification. I missed that part when reading it again recently.

[Brookshw]

This is why I said "those types of effects". I thought the difference between those types of effects and a continuous effect was fairly clear. Obviously when you move something, say slide it across the table, it doesn't move back to where it was an hour later, but moving something up and keeping it there in defiance of gravity requires a continuous effect with a duration, and in this case, continuous concentration.



Good clarification. I missed that part when reading it again recently.

I don't actually see anything in the text specifying concentration being a requirement actually, just that you can lift it. I suppose an argument could be made that you remove gravity's effect upon it as well though I doubt it to be the case. Still, what am I missing?

[Dalebert]

I don't actually see anything in the text specifying concentration being a requirement actually, just that you can lift it. I suppose an argument could be made that you remove gravity's effect upon it as well though I doubt it to be the case. Still, what am I missing?
{Scrubbed} gravity. It's this thing that is constantly exerting a force on everything and pulling objects down toward the Earth all the time. The spell says you can slowly lift 1 lb, presumably by concentrating on where you want the object to go (like up). How else would you be controlling the movement if not by concentration? When you stop lifting, it falls. It's just like if you lift something with your hand but when you let go, it falls unless you placed it on something. Absent gravity, it would kinda stay there indefinitely, but there's gravity in most places in Pathfinder.

[Segev]

By the RAW, it actually does look like effects other than the ones listed (cleansing, soiling, and moving) ONLY fade after an hour has passed. So chilling or heating persists (which I again would house rule away), and instantly fades after the hour is up. The question is whether lifting a dagger (definitely movement) causes it to stay where you left it for an hour before it falls to the ground, or whether moving it up and releasing it results in immediate falling. Is the levitation "motion" or a separate, non-motion effect that happens to also allow motion?

I'd probably allow it to work as "hang it in the air for an hour" unless and until I saw that being used to break something in the game. Being able to "hang" a note in mid-air for an hour sounds useful, for instance. Or leave you trail of gold coins floating where they're obvious rather than hoping they're noticed on the ground. (Though that would admittedly make people suspicious!)

[Dalebert]

Honestly, it's all DM call and it can always be house-ruled. If you don't mind people doing it with a cantrip, then let them. I actually created a cantrip back in the days when Dragon Magazine invented them and they were something all wizards could do unlimited anyway. It was called "hold" and that's exactly what it did. A wizard could set his staff so it would stand on it's own while he was doing something else or place a small object in the air and it would stay for a period of time. My DM allowed it and we never abused it. However, I won't put it past the GitP to find a way. It's definitely a stretch by the spell as written and I certainly don't think it's intended. Why else would it talk about lifting an object, i.e. this is how much material you can move, and then explicitly exempt moving things from having a duration?

[Brookshw]

Honestly, it's all DM call and it can always be house-ruled. If you don't mind people doing it with a cantrip, then let them. I actually created a cantrip back in the days when Dragon Magazine invented them and they were something all wizards could do unlimited anyway. It was called "hold" and that's exactly what it did. A wizard could set his staff so it would stand on it's own while he was doing something else or place a small object in the air and it would stay for a period of time. My DM allowed it and we never abused it. However, I won't put it past the GitP to find a way. It's definitely a stretch by the spell as written and I certainly don't think it's intended. Why else would it talk about lifting an object, i.e. this is how much material you can move, and then explicitly exempt moving things from having a duration? The duration thing is curious but on the notion of it sitting in mid air I'm not really seeing any RAW requiring concentration, effectively being a minor levitate so to speak, which also doesn't seem to have any concentration requirement (also this might explain those floating candles in the harry potter dinner hall). I'm sure this could have potential for abuse but for something minor I might go for it.

And no dalebert, I'm not trolling you, we're talking about magic which is quite good at telling physics what it can go do to itself.

[Jowgen]

On the entire levitating things aspect, here's an interesting scenario IF levitated objects do indeed remain levitating for one hour, unless1 lb worth of force drags them back down.

Get a box of coppers, each weighin 1/20th of a pound. Levitate each piece one by one and arrange them into a structure where any weight placed upon them gets evenly distributed to the other coins (may require some sort of check). If you now step onto them, your weight is distributed accross the coins, and thusly, you and the coins remain aloft as long as your weight in lb < 0.95n coins. Then either create the same structure, or use the collecting fuction of presitdigitation to rearrange the coins under you as to make the coin-structure to re-build itself in the disired direction.

You now have a rediculously slow method of moving yourself through the air.

[dascarletm]

On the entire levitating things aspect, here's an interesting scenario IF levitated objects do indeed remain levitating for one hour, unless1 lb worth of force drags them back down.

Get a box of coppers, each weighin 1/20th of a pound. Levitate each piece one by one and arrange them into a structure where any weight placed upon them gets evenly distributed to the other coins (may require some sort of check). If you now step onto them, your weight is distributed accross the coins, and thusly, you and the coins remain aloft as long as your weight in lb < 0.95n coins. Then either create the same structure, or use the collecting fuction of presitdigitation to rearrange the coins under you as to make the coin-structure to re-build itself in the disired direction.

You now have a rediculously slow method of moving yourself through the air.

If you weigh 239lbs (including gear), you'd need 240 coins. Which would take 240 rounds to place, which would take 1440 seconds to place, which would be 24 minutes.

[Jowgen]

If you weigh 239lbs (including gear), you'd need 240 coins. Which would take 240 rounds to place, which would take 1440 seconds to place, which would be 24 minutes.

I think at 239 lbs you'd need 252 coins ( 0.95*252=239.4), but in any case, "ridiculously slow" might have been a bit of an understatement on my part, I suppose :smallwink:

[atemu1234]

The rule I used was that it can imitate any low-talent magic trick, like pull a rabbit out of a hat or pull a coin out of someone's ear (in the case of the coin, they had to use one on their person with a magical teleportation effect).

One of my players used it to get a +2 circumstance bonus on a diplomacy check with a young prince.

[Lycoris]

The Sorcerer in our current campaign has been doing his best to make use of Prestidigitation so far:

-Placed a rough military style insignia on his sleeve when attempting diplomacy on a group of half-orc MPs (that it was dark out helped sell the trick).
-Colored/Polished a bunch of junk from a caravan to pawn off to some run-of-the-mill bridge bandits as being made of gold/brass.
-Tried to con the bandits in a dice game first, but got reverse conned instead; prompting the above.

Of course, it helped that he always had Burning Hands as a backup....

[Brookshw]

Of course, it helped that he always had Burning Hands as a backup....

It's as true today.... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html) as when..... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0157.html)

[Gracht Grabmaw]

I saw someone use it once to burn a monster covered in oil alive, which was pretty brutal.

[Vortenger]

So yeah...Prestidigitation. That's good soup...

(Subtitle: Back on topic?)

[Nessa Ellenesse]

I can't imagine NOT using Presdigitation as a mundane insta-bath! D:

I don't see how illuminating as a candle is too far for Presdigitation - it's too weak to step on Light and Dancing Light's spell's area (Just as the 1 lb movement is too weak to step on Mage Hand's stuff).

As for flavoring spoiled stuff - I don't think it can do that. It can add flavor, but not remove flavor (A stick has very little flavor, and you can augment it with another flavor to taste good). So, you'd get mixed signals.

now the stuff produced by murlin's spoon is just flavorless I used presditigitation to make it go from bland to tasting good.

[Segev]

now the stuff produced by murlin's spoon is just flavorless I used presditigitation to make it go from bland to tasting good.

I've often wondered: would changing the TEXTURE of the food be within Prestidigitation's power, too? So you could have your tasteless mass not just taste like steak, but feel like it in your mouth?

[Dalebert]

What about making "obviously fake" food and then spicing it? Could prestidigitation conjure a substance that's edible (but of course not nutritious, just won't hurt you to eat). Imagine cheese doodles. Those are obviously fake anyway and have no nutritional value. Can you conjure a styrofoam-like substance and coat it in a cheesy powder with the flavor thing? It would just be a boredom snack or some popcorn(ish) that you conjure up in order to eat some popcorn while you watch your party members melodramatically argue about something silly.

[Segev]

What about making "obviously fake" food and then spicing it? Could prestidigitation conjure a substance that's edible (but of course not nutritious, just won't hurt you to eat). Imagine cheese doodles. Those are obviously fake anyway and have no nutritional value. Can you conjure a styrofoam-like substance and coat it in a cheesy powder with the flavor thing? It would just be a boredom snack or some popcorn(ish) that you conjure up in order to eat some popcorn while you watch your party members melodramatically argue about something silly.

You just invented zero-calorie candy as a 0th level spell.

[jedipotter]

So what is every ones call on the flavor use of Prestidigitation with poison?

So you have some poison and you make it taste like chicken.

Does the person eating it get a save? Is it save to negate the poison? Like they would ''taste through'' the fake flavor and taste the real poison and spit it out.

[Sir Chuckles]

If they failed the save and got poisoned, I'd give them a Will to disbelieve.

Though that implies that the poison has a strong enough taste to require the darned spell. Even then, I doubt many people would go "Hey, my stew is slightly bitter. Must be poison!"
Unless they're paranoid, of course.

[Dalebert]

It could be argued that the spell allows for a change in Target based upon the text which allows the spell to "color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round," but this text does not make clear whether the area being cleaned actually moves, or if the spell only creates a fixed 1-foot cube "dishwasher" area

I think the description makes it very clear.


Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour

It then goes on to give some examples and cleaning something in a 1 ft area is one of the examples of the various tricks you can do, once per round (presumably because you have to use an action each time), for an hour. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your POV, you have to make it happen with actions each round, but you can do that anywhere within range. And that's consistent with your interpretation that floating objects fall when you stop concentrating. So does the "dishwasher" effect.

[Segev]

So what is every ones call on the flavor use of Prestidigitation with poison?

So you have some poison and you make it taste like chicken.

Does the person eating it get a save? Is it save to negate the poison? Like they would ''taste through'' the fake flavor and taste the real poison and spit it out.

I'd probably require a Craft:Cooking roll to adequately flavor something to the point that the presence of poison was wholly disguised. Since this is theoretically something one could do without magic, I would give a +2 Circumstance bonus for using Prestidigitation, as well as permitting it to be done without the tools, time, and ingredients to specially prepare the concoction. It would be opposed by some sort of perception-based check; I'd probably allow Survival or Profession: Taste Tester or anything of the sort oppose it. Maybe Heal or even Spot (I'd find it harder to justify Listen, even though both are inappropriate). (In PF, I'd allow Perception, since that's more generic than Spot or Listen.)

[Jowgen]

I'd probably allow Survival or Profession: Taste Tester or anything of the sort oppose it

Bizarrely enough, I remember reading an obscure source recently that stated that one must make a spot check to notice an ingested poison in a food. Might have been a Dragon Mag.

[Brookshw]

Bizarrely enough, I remember reading an obscure source recently that stated that one must make a spot check to notice an ingested poison in a food. Might have been a Dragon Mag.

Wow, now that sounds strange though I can see the logic.

[Deadline]

Profession: Taste Tester

I was under the impression that someone who tested food for poison didn't detect it so much by tasting it, but by dying from it. Makes it a bit of a "short-lived" career, eh? :smallwink:

[Segev]

I was under the impression that someone who tested food for poison didn't detect it so much by tasting it, but by dying from it. Makes it a bit of a "short-lived" career, eh? :smallwink:

Probably! But I imagine if you live long enough to gain a level or two, you might just learn to sense them before swallowing.

I mean, false positives are going to be tricky to prove, unless you work for a tyrant who likes to force-feed people poison and/or there's a strong suspect for who the culprit is, so you could even afford to spit out food that you think is even slightly questionable and declare that your finely-honed senses have detected poison within.

How many potentates paranoid enough to have a taste tester are going to call him a liar and eat the food anyway?

(Beware the Detect Poison spell, though. Honestly, anybody who can afford a taste tester might be able to afford a 1st level wizard or sorcerer or cleric or even bard with Detect Poison known. And it'll be more reliable, with less wait time, and less need to have your food poked through by somebody else before you get to eat it.)

[Stella]

Another poster already said this, but it bears repeating: Prestidigitation specifies that YOU can perform EFFECTS, not that it is cast upon a target.
You're putting to much emphasis on the word effects and are ignoring a lot of other text in the spell description. You can perform effects simply means that the spell can do more than one thing. Effects, plural = more than one effect can be achieved by this spell. It does not mean that one casting of the spell can achieve everything described as being possible, nor that it can achieve multiple instances of the single effect chosen in a single casting.


The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material.
Slowly lifting one pound is a "severe limitation." There's nothing in the spell which suggests that you can lift that one pound object, leave it hanging in the air which is still that one pound object being lifted even if it is no longer being moved, and then lift another one pound object as well. The "one pound" is a set limit called out quite clearly in the spell description, and also backed up by the general limitation of being a minor effect with severe limitations.

So, no. You can't get your cloud of floating daggers. That is a direct violation of the limitations described right in the spell description. At best you can lift one pound at a time, moving one object and then another, but not having more than one pound under the effect of the spell at any time. The one pound limit is a limit which cannot be exceeded, per the RAW. And I still don't think that a DM who rules that the spell can only move the one pound of material initially selected, or who rules that the 1-foot cube area for cleaning, dying, or soiling items is fixed in place as per the RAW for spell Area and requires the caster or others to move items into and out of for the spell to effect items beyond those which were originally in that 1-foot cube area is out of line with their interpretation of the RAW. "Minor effects with severe limitations" gives the DM all the leeway to limit the effect of Prestidigitation that she needs.

[Jowgen]

Here's a simple question: when it says that you can slowly lift, what kind of movement speed qualifies as "slow"?

Assuming that it can move objects omnidirectionaly (the sorting function strongly suggests so), one should be able to use it to move oneself around while levitating at the above-questioned "slow" speed (assuming one accepts that levitating qualifies one to weigh less than 1 lb).

[nyjastul69]

Here's a simple question: when it says that you can slowly lift, what kind of movement speed qualifies as "slow"?

Assuming that it can move objects omnidirectionaly (the sorting function strongly suggests so), one should be able to use it to move oneself around while levitating at the above-questioned "slow" speed (assuming one accepts that levitating qualifies one to weigh less than 1 lb).

Lifting is not the same as levitating.

[Segev]

Specifically, the effect is to lift up to 1 lb. of material at a time. Effects remain in place for the whole duration. Once lifted, they stay lifted until something changes that condition. It is arguable per the RAW that they actually stay up indefinitely because movement is one of those things that stays in place even after the duration is over, but one can also argue that that movement did stay in place, but gravity took back over.

As for putting emphasis in the wrong place, I'm not sure how you can read, "Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour," and conclude that you can only perform one simple magical effect for that whole hour. It explicitly uses the plural, and does so after specifying that you can use multiple effects once you've cast the spell. For it to be restricted to one effect, it would have to be worded something like, "Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform one of a number of simple magical effects for 1 hour. Choose the effect from among..."

But it doesn't. It says you can perform effects, plural, for one hour after you cast the spell.

[jedipotter]

Here's a simple question: when it says that you can slowly lift, what kind of movement speed qualifies as "slow"?

Assuming that it can move objects omnidirectionaly (the sorting function strongly suggests so), one should be able to use it to move oneself around while levitating at the above-questioned "slow" speed (assuming one accepts that levitating qualifies one to weigh less than 1 lb).



Movement Rate of 1 would be slow....

And how does a levitating person move with Prestidigitation? A person is not an object. The spell levitate does not a person an object, nor does it make them weightless. It does not effect weight at all...

[Dalebert]

It is arguable per the RAW that they actually stay up indefinitely because movement is one of those things that stays in place even after the duration is over, but one can also argue that that movement did stay in place, but gravity took back over.

I actually made that very argument earlier in this thread somewhere. To sum up--you use a trick to move something from one place to another. As it says, that's an essentially instantaneous effect that doesn't wear off in an hour. (Imagine moving a glass across the table. It's not going to slide back in place an hour later.) When you move something upward, it's now say 2 feet above the table. The effect then ends. Moving something has no duration so it falls.

Common sense says you could continue concentrating to hold it there, essentially the same trick as moving it, but you need to spend an action each round to do so. That's if you're being strict. I added that in the game I'm DMing, I have no problem with sticking something in place, even in mid-air, and allowing that to last an hour. You can allow whatever you want as DM. The spell is written to allow for broad interpretation and that could be handy but I don't think it's game-breaking.

[Jowgen]

Lifting is not the same as levitating.

And how does a levitating person move with Prestidigitation? A person is not an object. The spell levitate does not a person an object, nor does it make them weightless. It does not effect weight at all...

Sorry, should have worded more clearly. My scenario presumes that the creature in question is already levitating due to some spell or effect. When moving that creature with Prestidigitation, I was presuming that the targeting problem would be circumvented by moving a securely attached piece of equipment (e.g. armor) or -rather uncomfortably- its hair (which is dead protein, and thus technically an object).

From a RAW perspective, I do suppose that levitating -while effectively equating to being unbound by gravity and thus having no weight- is not the same as having no weight in game terms, as weight is a rather constant property for items. As such, I can see the argument that even if something is levitating, it can not be affected by Prestidigitation if it's listed weight exceeds 1 lb. A rather stingy argument in my opinion, but it's valid.

To amend my scenario in response, I go back to the above-mentioned circumvention of the "1 lb object restriction", using a negligible-weight object to push or pull at the levitating creature with 1lb equivalent force. Whether 1 lb of force is sufficient to move a levitating creature is a physics problem, which does not bode well for a D&D debate. While levitating, the creature would be subject to its own inertia and friction from air.

Is 1 lb of force sufficient to overcome these? If yes, then 2 question remain. A: Is it disputed that prestidigitation can exert omnidirectional force? I believe that the Gather function from Tome & Blood demonstrates that it can. B: How fast would this propulsion via prestidigitation be? I severely doubt that 'slow' has a numerical definition in the rules....

[Brookshw]

I don't know how much RAW can be provided as an answer here but I would probably allow nudging along someone who is levitating by using prestidigitation at a rate of 5 feet a round. Alternatively though it simply might not be possible which is probably more likely the correct RAW response.

[Vogonjeltz]

I've often wondered: would changing the TEXTURE of the food be within Prestidigitation's power, too? So you could have your tasteless mass not just taste like steak, but feel like it in your mouth?

I don't see a clause regarding texture, just taste, so offhand i would say no.

[Psyren]

So what is every ones call on the flavor use of Prestidigitation with poison?

So you have some poison and you make it taste like chicken.

Does the person eating it get a save? Is it save to negate the poison? Like they would ''taste through'' the fake flavor and taste the real poison and spit it out.

Aren't most ingested poisons either flavorless or pleasant/inoffensive anyway (e.g. almonds)? You'd be a pretty bad poisoner if you engineered something designed to be eaten or drunk and made it taste like arse.

[Dalebert]

Aren't most ingested poisons either flavorless or pleasant/inoffensive anyway (e.g. almonds)? You'd be a pretty bad poisoner if you engineered something designed to be eaten or drunk and made it taste like arse.

If you're trying to be sneaky, you pick one of those. There are many poisons that take time to act also, hours or even days to finish the job, though I don't think D&D or PF accounts for those. You'd think that if someone were trying to be sneaky, they'd want to distance the death itself from the act of poisoning and hopefully be long gone when it happens. But I guess you run the risk of someone discovering the antidote. Sometimes the symptoms are hard to distinguish from other ailments though.

For instance, there's that plant that makes you unable to extract nutrients from your food and you slowly starve to death.

I'd say I don't know why they didn't use something a little less fast-acting on Joffrey but I know the answer. It would be less dramatic and therefore less satisfying.

[Segev]

For instance, there's that plant that makes you unable to extract nutrients from your food and you slowly starve to death.What's this one called?


I'd say I don't know why they didn't use something a little less fast-acting on Joffrey but I know the answer. It would be less dramatic and therefore less satisfying.It wasn't any slower in the novel; Littlefinger wanted Joffry dead before he could do any more harm, and the confusion provided a perfect opportunity to spirit Sansa away.

[Dalebert]

What's this one called?
I don't remember. I think I watched it on Netflix. It may still be there. It's not a bad movie.