Overpowered League of Injustice

[Surrealistik]

Just a collection of the most overpowered builds I'm aware of.

Thus far:

Sorcerer 17/Warlock 3

The injustice league's main striker.

Darkness + Devil Sight or Hex + Agonizing Blast + Spell Sniper

Enhance your 4x 1d10 + 5 with Darkness and Devil Sight for auto-advantage (and auto-disadvantage for enemies) or Hex for +1d6 extra necrotic damage per bolt.

Then split it with Twin Ray metamagic.

Then cast it again with Quicken Spell. Unfortunately we can't Twin the Quickened casting because we're only allowed to use one Metamagic per spell.

12d6+12d10+60 total damage (Hex), or 12d10+60 damage with advantage (Darkness + Devil Sight) at the low cost of 3 sorc points that ignores cover and has a range of 240 feet (480 with Distant spell).

All this +9th level casting, and a slew of features like perma-flight + Wish > Simulacrum for doubled spell slots.




18 Wizard/Fighter 2

The injustice league's utility caster/brains.

Obvious. Heavy Armour + Mirror Image (no Concentration) and Shield in perpetuity (effective 26 AC without magical armour) with the ability to drop a level 8 and 9 spell on the same turn.

Abjuration specialists are excruciatingly difficult to kill between being impossible to hit with attack rolls as above, their Ward, advantage vs spell saves, resistance vs spells, and superior dispel magic/counterspells.

Necromancers can raise insanely huge armies.

Transmutationists can do all kinds of ridiculous things with their Philosopher's Stone.

Also level 9 casting and Wish + Simulacrum.


20 Druid (Moon Circle)

The injustice league's party tank.

9th level spell casting + spam Wild Shape to gain 126 HP, phys resistance and immunities by transforming into an Earth Elemental each turn as a bonus action. Couple with Foresight.


18 Bard (College of Lore)/2 Fighter:

The injustice league's skill monkey.

Proficiency in allll the skills and important tools.

The usual heavy armour + Defense fighting style + Action Surge multicast shenanigans.

Cherrypick all the best spells in the game from all the spell lists. Win initiative with Peerless Skill. Use Cutting Words (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ah5xJz6ZU) to make enemies dun goof at critical moments as a Reaction, hopefully coming out with a net action economy gain.

Wish + Simulacrum.


Any other stupidly OP builds out there? I expect virtually all of these will involve casting in some form.

[Malifice]

12d6+12d10+60 total damage (Hex), or 12d10+60 damage with advantage (Darkness + Devil Sight) at the low cost of 3 sorc points that ignores cover and has a range of 240 feet (480 with Distant spell).

Paladin 6/ Cleric 11/ Fighter 3.

Cast Hold Monster, walk up to BBEG and Action surge Attack (twice) with advantage - scoring an Auto crit on each hit. Expending superiority dice as you hit. Auto Crit triggers extra attack via GWM feat. Spam 5d8 4th level Smites on each hit. Assuming Half Orc and Greataxe:

9d12+38d8+45 (+6d8 vs undead and outsiders). Reroll 1's and 2's.

Gets better with a Magic Weapon.

Also has Cha to saves, 6th level Cleric spells (and 2nd level Paladin spells). Heavy armor, two fighting styles, lay on hands, second wind and channel divinity.

[Surrealistik]

Paladin 6/ Cleric 11/ Fighter 3.

Cast Hold Monster, walk up to BBEG and Action surge Attack (twice) with advantage - scoring an Auto crit on each hit. Expending superiority dice as you hit. Auto Crit triggers extra attack via GWM feat. Spam 5d8 4th level Smites on each hit. Assuming Half Orc and Greataxe:

9d12+38d8+45 (+6d8 vs undead and outsiders). Reroll 1's and 2's.

Gets better with a Magic Weapon.

Also has Cha to saves, 6th level Cleric spells (and 2nd level Paladin spells). Heavy armor, two fighting styles, lay on hands, second wind and channel divinity.

It's a cool build to be sure!

My biggest issue is that it's all nova (but what a hell of a nova!) and relies on a saving throw spell with a status effect that quite a few monsters, particularly late game monsters have immunity to (and then there's the monsters with autosave abilities). Flying monsters with ranged attacks also give it a lot of trouble.

Keep in mind that the Sorcerer/Warlock can basically throw down its stated damage all day (or at least with Twin Spell, novaing with Quicken and converting spells to Sorcery points as necessary).

[Malifice]

It's a cool build to be sure!

My biggest issue that it's all nova (but what a hell of a nova!) and relies on a saving throw spell with a status effect that quite a few monsters, particularly late game monsters have immunity to (and then there's the monsters with autosave abilities). Flying monsters with ranged attacks also give it a lot of trouble.

Keep in mind that the Sorcerer/Warlock can basically throw down its stated damage all day.

It can avoid saving throw issues by using its PoV vengance (bonus action) to gain advantage and then action surge attacking 4 times, channelling 5d8 smite on hits. Can have hunters mark up and running (or a Paladin Smite spell heightened to a 6th level slot) also up in this case. Works better with Champion for 19-20 crit range seeing as you need to crit fish.

Assuming 4 Hits, youre looking at 4d12+4d6+20d8+60. (+4d8 v outsiders and undead).

Every Crit adds +2d12+5d8+1d6 to the damage. (+1d8 vs outsiders and undead).

Re-roll 1's and 2's.

Give it the magic greatsword floating around in an already published adventure and you can add +8d6 to the above damage.

Defensively solid with heavy armor, defence fighting style, and Cha to Saves.

[Malifice]

Works better with Sorcerer actually.

Paladin 6/ Fighter 3/ Sorcerer 11.

Cast quickened Hold Monster as a Bonus Action. Use 'bend luck' to apply a -1d4 penalty to the save.

Then move up and action surge attacking 4 times (with advantage + auto critting) channelling Smites and superiority dice on each hit.

12d12+46d8+60 (+8d8 vs undead and outsiders). Reroll 1's and 2's.

Still has Cha to saves, heavy armor and 2 fighting styles (defence and GWF). Mirror image and shield for added defence.

Also 6th level Sorcerer spells and 2nd level Paladin spells.

[Surrealistik]

Sorcerer is good for Fly too which addresses a pretty glaring weakness vs flying enemies.

Again though, by far my biggest issue with the build is that this kind of damage output has basically no staying power.

[Malifice]

Again though, by far my biggest issue with the build is that this kind of damage output has basically no staying power.

Yeah, thats a problem with Paladin generally. Every class feature (barring channel divinity) recharges on a long rest. Smites suck spell slots like candy.

Still, a decent nova strike. Would red paste even our 20th level Moon Druid.

[Surrealistik]

I wouldn't be so sure about that, at least not if the Druid has Freedom of Movement or is otherwise not paralyzed.

If paralyzed, yeah, it's definitely a goner, though keep in mind that all of its elemental forms are outright immune to paralysis.

[Malifice]

I wouldn't be so sure about that, at least not if the Druid has Freedom of Movement or is otherwise not paralyzed.

With the restriction on buff spells (only 1 concentration spell up at a time) its a lucky druid that selected freedom of movement to be up (and had the time to cast it).


If paralyzed, yeah, it's definitely a goner, though keep in mind that all of its elemental forms are outright immune to paralysis.

How many HP do the Elemental forms have?

Air has 90. Hows Earth looking?

[Surrealistik]

With the restriction on buff spells (only 1 concentration spell up at a time) its a lucky druid that selected freedom of movement to be up (and had the time to cast it).

That's part of why FoM is so good; it's _not_ concentration duration, which allows him to have Foresight up (this plus the recurring HP is what makes him truly immortal).


How many HP do the Elemental forms have?

Air has 90. Hows Earth looking?

Earth has 126, with 17 AC.

[Malifice]

Earth has 126, with 17 AC.

Intrestingly, easily destroyed by any 17th level Sorcerer.

Damaging cantrip (needs to deal 26 damage) + quickened Power word kill (no save). Foresight wont help at all.

Wizard 17/ Fighter 2 also for the same (or better) combo using action surge (Fireball plus PWK).

[Surrealistik]

Intrestingly, easily destroyed by any 17th level Sorcerer.

Damaging cantrip (needs to deal 26 damage) + quickened Power word kill (no save). Foresight wont help at all.

Wizard 17/ Fighter 2 also for the same (or better) combo using action surge (Fireball plus PWK).

Yep.

The problem of course is that only broke beats broke, and Power Word Kill isn't exactly common; I can see Wizards (because they can learn everything), Bards and _maybe_ Warlocks having it (though really Foresight and True Polymorph are much more enticing) but spell starved multiclass Sorcerers are almost certainly going to take the far superior and more versatile Wish as their one and only (and if they swap a spell out for another L9, it will probably be to get Meteor Swarm or Time Stop).

[Vowtz]

18 Wizard/Fighter 2

The injustice league's utility caster/brains.

Obvious. Heavy Armour + Mirror Image (no Concentration) and Shield in perpetuity (effective 26 AC without magical armour) with the ability to drop a level 8 and 9 spell on the same turn.

Abjuration specialists are excruciatingly difficult to kill between being impossible to hit with attack rolls as above, their Ward, advantage vs spell saves, resistance vs spells, and superior dispel magic/counterspells.

Necromancers can raise insanely huge armies.

Transmutationists can do all kinds of ridiculous things with their Philosopher's Stone.

Also level 9 casting.


I got the impression that as wizards go, diviners are stronger, since they wake up in the morning with three dices to guarantee hits / guarantee successful saves / guarantee failed saves (auto victory).

Am I overrating this ability?

[Rilak]

You cannot twin spell onto the same target again. Which means you would be unable to Hex the second target.
You cannot twin spell an Eldritch Blast anyway (because it has 4 targets; not a single target).

[Surrealistik]

You cannot twin spell onto the same target again. Which means you would be unable to Hex the second target.
You cannot twin spell an Eldritch Blast anyway (because it has 4 targets; not a single target).

So long as you target a single target with Eldritch Blast, it's fair game; the wording doesn't ask if a spell _can_ target multiple targets or not, only that it has a single target.

Further, while you can't select the same target twice with a Twinned Eldritch Blast, both the original and the secondary target take your Hex damage on each instance of the blast. My tally is concerned with aggregate damage, not damage dealt to a single target.


@ Vowtz:

Between the fact that you get only three dice per long rest, and you have to declare use before the roll makes me very reluctant to rate the Diviner alongside the Necromancer, Transmutationist and Abjurationist.

[Shadow]

Further, while you can't select the same target twice with a Twinned Eldritch Blast, both the original and the secondary target take your Hex damage on each instance of the blast.

What part of Hex's description makes you think this is possible?


You place a curse on a creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack.

The extra damage is an effect on the cursed/hexed creature, not on the attack that hit it.
And that's to say nothing of the fact that your DM may not allow you to twin EB at all.
So even if your DM does allow you to twin it, which he shouldn't, you would still only get the hex damage on the original target.

[Surrealistik]

What part of Hex's description makes you think this is possible?

The extra damage is an effect on the cursed/hexed creature, not on the attack that hit it.
And that's to say nothing of the fact that your DM may not allow you to twin EB at all.
So even if your DM does allow you to twin it, which he shouldn't, you would still only get the hex damage on the original target.

Twinned Hex.

Also I completely disagree with the interpretation that spells which can only ever have a single target are the only legal beneficiaries of Twin Spell; at best it's _a_ possible interpretation of two applicable ones. Until there's errata or the Word of God weighs in, it's indeed up to the DM on how to rule this; whether 'a spell with one target' means a spell that can only ever have one target, or a spell that has one target at the time of casting. Given the lack of explicit definition, the latter seems to be technically allowed by the RAW.

[Draken]

What part of Hex's description makes you think this is possible?



The extra damage is an effect on the cursed/hexed creature, not on the attack that hit it.
And that's to say nothing of the fact that your DM may not allow you to twin EB at all.
So even if your DM does allow you to twin it, which he shouldn't, you would still only get the hex damage on the original target.

While it is arguable whether or not he can twin Eldritch Blast, he most certainly can twin Hex.

[Shadow]

Twinned Hex.

Gotcha. I didn't realize that you were twinning the hex. I thought you were only twinning the blast.

[Giant2005]

18 Wizard/Fighter 2

The injustice league's utility caster/brains.

Obvious. Heavy Armour + Mirror Image (no Concentration) and Shield in perpetuity (effective 26 AC without magical armour) with the ability to drop a level 8 and 9 spell on the same turn.

Abjuration specialists are excruciatingly difficult to kill between being impossible to hit with attack rolls as above, their Ward, advantage vs spell saves, resistance vs spells, and superior dispel magic/counterspells.

Necromancers can raise insanely huge armies.

Transmutationists can do all kinds of ridiculous things with their Philosopher's Stone.

Also level 9 casting.

Evocationalists are pretty awesome too with their Overchannelled spells - they can spit out maximized Cantrips all day long.

[pwykersotz]

Evocationalists are pretty awesome too with their Overchannelled spells - they can spit out maximized Cantrips all day long.

FYI, according to Mearls, Overchannel was never meant to work with Cantrips. However, by RAW it still looks solid. Alas, I can't find the source at the moment.

[Shadow]

FYI, according to Mearls, Overchannel was never meant to work with Cantrips. However, by RAW it still looks solid. Alas, I can't find the source at the moment.

Correct.
Cantrips are not 0th level spells in 5e. The wording of Overchannel states "of 5th level or lower, " but cantrips have no level.
So by RAW, it still wouldn't work.
Note how other effects which do allow use with cantrps specifically state how to do so (such as twin spell costing 1 sorcerery point).

edit:
Correction. Cantrips are indeed listed as 0 level in parenthesis

[Rilak]

Twinned Hex.

Also I completely disagree with the interpretation that spells which can only ever have a single target are the only legal beneficiaries of Twin Spell; at best it's _a_ possible interpretation of two applicable ones. Until there's errata or the Word of God weighs in, it's indeed up to the DM on how to rule this; whether 'a spell with one target' means a spell that can only ever have one target, or a spell that has one target at the time of casting. Given the lack of explicit definition, the latter seems to be technically allowed by the RAW.

Sure, you can twin hex. But note that it costs you a bonus action to cast it or reassign a target. Dropping your DPS in half (most enemies die in a single turn).

As for targeting the same creature multiple times, there was one ruling that said you have to combine Magic Missile hits to a single target into one damage roll, applying Empowered Evocation only once. If you think Eldritch Blast combines into one damage roll, feel free to Twin Spell it.
Using a twinned Hex, you would hit for (4d10+5+1d6)*2 damage (average 30.5*3 with Quicken).

4 beams = 4 targets...

[Chambers]

Correct.
Cantrips are not 0th level spells in 5e. The wording of Overchannel states "of 5th level or lower, " but cantrips have no level.
So by RAW, it still wouldn't work.
Note how other effects which do allow use with cantrps specifically state how to do so (such as twin spell costing 1 sorcerery point).


Spell Level
Every spell has a level from 0 to 9. A spell’s level is a general indicator of how powerful it is, with the lowly (but still impressive) magic missile at 1st level and the incredible time stop at 9th. Cantrips—simple but powerful spells that characters can cast almost by rote—are level 0.

Cantrips are in fact 0 level spells and as the RAW currently stands Cantrips can benefit from Overchannel. I concede that Mike Mearls explanation is the RAI but at this point his Tweets are not RAW.

[Shadow]

yeah, I just noticed that and corrected it already

[Surrealistik]

Sure, you can twin hex. But note that it costs you a bonus action to cast it or reassign a target. Dropping your DPS in half (most enemies die in a single turn).

Well this isn't correct in that many enemies you fight at the time you're L20 will probably survive more than one turn short of a spell/attack nova of some kind.

Further, reallocating a target with the bonus action only denies you Quicken assuming you want to use it. This costs you 1/3rd of your potential output, not half.


As for targeting the same creature multiple times, there was one ruling that said you have to combine Magic Missile hits to a single target into one damage roll, applying Empowered Evocation only once. If you think Eldritch Blast combines into one damage roll, feel free to Twin Spell it.
Using a twinned Hex, you would hit for (4d10+5+1d6)*2 damage (average 30.5*3 with Quicken).

4 beams = 4 targets...

What ruling is this? Also such a ruling doesn't have any RAW justification. Even if such a ruling on MM was true, it doesn't necessarily set precedent for Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Blast has multiple attack and damage rolls, each of which need to be resolved.

[Shadow]

What ruling is this? Also such a ruling doesn't have any RAW justification. Even if such a ruling on MM was true, it doesn't necessarily set precedent for Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Blast has multiple attack and damage rolls, each of which need to be resolved.


Brail ‏@Brail4 Jul 12
@mikemearls @Wizards_DnD Sorry to bug you more but..EmpEvoc +int mod,if thats on one target,is that still +intmod or +intmodX3?

Mike Mearls ‏@mikemearls Jul 12
@Brail4 @Wizards_DnD empowered evocation applies only once per target

calebrus44 ‏@calebrus44 Sep 3
@mikemearls @Brail4 @Wizards_DnD Does agonizing blast also only apply once per target, or does each blast count as a separate hit?

Mike Mearls ‏@mikemearls Sep 3
@calebrus44 @Brail4 @Wizards_DnD i believe each blast is separate, since each requires a separate attack roll

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/507207819083276288

[Surrealistik]

So in otherwords, each blast of multiple blasts from EB made against the same target are recognized as discreet and separate hits/instances of damage and therefore Agonizing Blast and Hex do indeed apply to each of those blasts.

[Shadow]

yep character quota

[Tasvel]

I like this post - nicely done. Point of interest, though:



Then cast it again with Quicken Spell.


A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You
must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell,
provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action
this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same
turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. (p. 202)

[Surrealistik]

I like this post - nicely done. Point of interest, though:

Thanks! Eldritch Blast is a cantrip.

[Tasvel]

Thanks! Eldritch Blast is a cantrip.

Goddamn - wow. I know nothing about warlocks. :smallsmile: