Ways for mundane fighters to counter flight?

[InfinityArts]

I'm looking for ways that a melee fighter can counter flight, without actually resorting to flight themselves (via magic or items).

Also, I'm having trouble finding rules for taking damage while flying, is there a simple save/skill check to be made to avoid plummeting? In what conditions does a flying creature enter freefall? My google-fu isn't turning up anything for this.

Thanks a lot, friends!

[VoxRationis]

Nets, bolas, harpoons (I think they're in a sourcebook somewhere), bows. Tanglefoot bags. Use of the environment helps as well.

[SiuiS]

Being tripped, being prevented from moving if your maneuverability/flight class are bad enough, and being knocked out all force you into free fall. Free fall is 250' per round descent, although there is a general rule somewhere about winged creatures having bone structure lock into place and they enter an extraordinary feather fall-like state.

Mundane methods of countering flight are basically what you see in dragonslayer movies; giant nets. Fire them from siege engines. You can launch giant spears with the same effect on a hit as caltrops (pierced wings, DM fiat) or you can load up the creature beyond it's light or sometimes medium load. That's it. The best defense a fighter has for flight is a ranged option. Personally, I always resort to cracking mountains and launching them, but that's beyond the means of most mundane warriors.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Nets, bolas, harpoons (I think they're in a sourcebook somewhere), bows. I'm not sure if weapons count as "items" by your reckoning. Few mundane fighters forgo them, though.

And of course, they're all ranged weapons.

Basically, for a mundane mêlée Fighter to counter flight, they must have some means of getting flying creatures in range. If having their own form of flight is out of the question, then I suppose their only option would be to be very very large. So, in game terms, being Gargantuan or Colossal might give you adequate reach to deal with some flying enemies, at least.

As far as being forced out of the air due to taking damage, I'm not sure that's a feature of 3.5 - maybe you're thinking of Pathfinder? Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#tacticalAerialMovement) are the SRD rules on tactical aerial movement.

[Red Fel]

Nets, bolas, harpoons (I think they're in a sourcebook somewhere), bows. Tanglefoot bags. Use of the environment helps as well.

Pretty much this. Only way to attack a ranged enemy without flying is via a ranged weapon. Since you're specifying "mundane," we can assume no magical assistance - no Downdraft or anything like that. That basically just leaves whatever you can throw or shoot.

And if they have Protection from Arrows or Wind Wall, you're basically hosed. Fly is delightfully broken for its level like that.

Are SLAs on the table? The Least Dragonmark of Storm (Gust of Wind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gustOfWind.htm)) can make a flying target think twice. The Lesser Dragonmark (Wind's Favor) and Greater (Control Winds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWinds.htm)) are also useful, as is the Storm Sentry PrC. But those are SLAs, so you're outside of purely mundane territory.

[ben-zayb]

Optimize Jump checks, or ride a dragon (yes, it has to be a dragon, trust me).

[OldTrees1]

As far as being forced out of the air due to taking damage, I'm not sure that's a feature of 3.5 - maybe you're thinking of Pathfinder? Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#tacticalAerialMovement) are the SRD rules on tactical aerial movement.

3.5 printed rules for Aerial Combat Maneuvers: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a
Tripped while flying = Stalled

Pathfinder made it harder.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Or at the very, very least, assuming they're not using breath weapons or spells: a readied action to smack 'em when they fly into range. Bonus points if you can grapple them or have Stand Still.

[InfinityArts]

3.5 printed rules for Aerial Combat Maneuvers: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a
Tripped while flying = Stalled

Pathfinder made it harder.

I find it strange that there's no rule on taking damage while flying (specifically the fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) spell, which states that flying "requires only as much concentration as walking"). Figures that it would be just like a wizard to take a giant arrow to the abdomen and continue floating along like it's no big deal. Should at least force a concentration check?

[Kymme]

Jumping. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html)

Failing that, using some kind of bow or spear or other ranged option. In the Age of Worms adventure path, there was a pretty cool setup for taking down dragons: giant harpoons tied to boulders, and trebuchet-ing nets of carrion crawler heads.

[bekeleven]

I find it strange that there's no rule on taking damage while flying (specifically the fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) spell, which states that flying "requires only as much concentration as walking"). Figures that it would be just like a wizard to take a giant arrow to the abdomen and continue floating along like it's no big deal. Should at least force a concentration check?

If you don't stop walking when taking damage, why is it strange to lack a rule making them stop doing something that requires just as much concentration?

[Psyren]

- Fight indoors, use terrain to your advantage.
- In PF, flying monsters need to make fly checks every time they're damaged.
- In PF, mundane fighters can craft their own Boots of Flying without going to Hogwarts.

[sideswipe]

an "i shoot half a mile with no penalties and it hits like a meteor" build. there are many.

[r2d2go]

The OP did say melee, right?

Anyway... Optimize Jump, I suppose. Or Balance - if you can consistently hit DC 120, you can walk on clouds. That means if you get, say, continuous Fog Cloud, you can walk anywhere. If the flyer is restricted to melee attacks, ready actions to smack, grapple, or trip them. If they're not, get to a better position where they can't hit you (that's the best you can do). If you have to attack a ranged flyer, you're a bit screwed unless they're very slow or you have psuedo-flight.

[Jormengand]

Take the "Lesser utterance of the evolving mind" and "Item familiar" feats; take cross-class truespeak ranks and put ranks in your item familiar. Inertia surge is a handy way of dropping yourself and your allies out of effects that would stop them moving, and Reversed Inertia surge is nasty - no save, you just can't move. If you drop yet another feat, you can make it last two rounds instead of the slightly sucky one, but you need to be able to make that truespeak check.

This is assuming that your fighter didn't really like being mundane anyway, of course. He can still be a fighter, though!

Oh, and if you're PF, 6+ level ninjas can walk on anything. No exception is made for anything except air. You probably didn't want to be a ninja, though.

[Curmudgeon]

If your enemies are flying, be unseen. Hide in foliage, fog, under overhangs, & c. Their flight does them little good if they have to come down to ground level to be able to have a chance to see you.

[Bud the CHUD]

Nets, bolas, harpoons (I think they're in a sourcebook somewhere), bows. Tanglefoot bags. Use of the environment helps as well.

Nailed it right here

[Lans]

[QUOTE=Red Fel;18069730]Pretty much this. Only way to attack a ranged enemy without flying is via a ranged weapon. Since you're specifying "mundane," we can assume no magical assistance - no Downdraft or anything like that. That basically just leaves whatever you can throw or shoot.

And if they have Protection from Arrows or Wind Wall, you're basically hosed. Fly is delightfully broken for its level like that.


Not true, protection from arrows is negated by magical weapon, and wind wall only provides a 30% miss chance against non arrows or bolts

[Averis Vol]

If you're willing to take hidden talent or whatever the feats called that gives you powerpoints, you can take the up the walls feat. Pair that with a couple levels of warblade or swordsage (or even a few feat dips) and you can just run up walls or trees or what have you and sudden leap to them, because long jumps are a ****load easier to make than high jumps. Bonus points if you nab leaping dragon stance for the always considered to have a 20 foot run and +10 to jump. You can also take mental leap and expend your focus at the jump for another +10.

[Eldariel]

While not easy to optimize in a generic warrior build 'cause 3.5, archery should be the obvious solution.