3.5 Dragonwrought Kobold Wizard Optimization help

[EvilPig]

Hello there.

I read much things about Dragonwrought Kobold but i still have some problems to create a optimized build for a wizard (not a sorcerer) and to understand what are advantage for using (and maybe abusing) of this race.

I have 80 pts to place in stats and i was thinking Str 6 (10-4) Dex 16 (14+2) Cos 16 (18-2) Wis 12 (9+3) Int 21 (18+3) Cha 14 (11+3, i like to have some Cha on my chars)
First of all i dont understand if qualifing as Dragon i get d12 for HP and 6+Int skill points or i just follow the Wizard rules. I am sure i get dragon Traits (darkvision, lowlight, etc).
I have in mind to be Focused Specialist in Conjuration giving up Abjuration, Enchantment, Evocation. Then maybe get in Master Specialist prestige class and finally become Intantatrix. But i am not really sure about this progression because i give up 4 magic schools.
Maybe i could use better the affinity of Kobolds with Sorcerer and become ultimate magus but i dont know if is a good choose.

So i would like to have a big help about this. Thanks in advice.

[Daishain]

One option that I've found appealing from an optimization point of view (though I haven't had the chance to actually test it out) would be to go sorcerer, undergo both draconic rites of passage, and prestige into Mage of the Arcane order. Its a prestige class made for wizards, that actually benefits the sorcerer more.

For the sorcerer spells, focus on useful ones that don't appear in the PHB spell list. The main MoAO class feature will let you retrieve a huge number of other spells you might need as a full round action. RAW, this just lets you pull those sor/wiz spells mentioned in the PHB, but it also mentions that the DM can designate others as being available (try talking them into allowing the spell compendium list to be used for this purpose for instance)

Mechanically, a sor10/MoAo10 going this route has got the full power of a 21st level sorcerer in addition to most of the versatility of a level 20 Wizard. (You could stop earlier, MoAO7 gets you the full spellpool ability, 9 gets you a free metamagic, 10 just gets you a title, a diplomacy bonus, and some extra responsibilities)

From a roleplaying point of view, you've got a kobold joining up with a bunch of wizards, who are likely to be somewhat... dismissive of the idea of having such a peer. You character would likely have to prove himself in a rather spectacular fashion. However, once in the door, the kobold's natural tendency towards order and working for and with a tightly-knit community would mesh very well with the order's fluff. Should be one hell of a story.

Note: The mechanics of a spontaneous caster using the MoAO's spellpool are poorly defined, but it is specifically mentioned as being possible. My interpretation? The feat arcane preparation (which you probably need to pick up to qualify for MoAO anyways), basically lets you burn spells per day uses to prepare specific spells, usually for the purpose of using metamagic without increasing casting time. Between combats, use it to burn enough SPD to prepare open spell slots wherever you feel like remaining flexible, then use them with the spellpool just as they describe the wizard doing so.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The biggest reason a Dragonwrought Kobold makes a good Wizard is due to the Spellhoarding template from Dragon issue 313. That converts every level of Sorcerer spellcasting you have to equal levels of Wizard spellcasting.

Combine that with the Spellhoarding archetype from Dragons of Eberron for +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting at no drawback, and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) for another +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting, and at 6th level you're casting spells as a 9th level Wizard.

If you take levels of Sorcerer, the spellcasting is converted to Wizard casting, but alternate class features and class variants that affect your Sorcerer spellcasting won't carry over to your Wizard spellcasting. So you could go Wizard 1/ Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ PrCs, and have considerably better HP, BAB, and proficiencies than if you'd gone Wizard 5. Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) is from UA, Stalwart Sorcerer is in CM, they can be combined and both reduce your Sorcerer spells/day and spells known, but you can still convert your total level of gimped Sorcerer spellcasting into equal levels of normal Wizard spellcasting.

[Red Fel]

Hello there.

I read much things about Dragonwrought Kobold but i still have some problems to create a optimized build for a wizard (not a sorcerer) and to understand what are advantage for using (and maybe abusing) of this race.

The reason many people suggest Sorcerer instead of Wizard is that Kobolds are designed with Sorcs in mind. Read Races of the Dragon, they're built for it, right down to the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). That said, play what you want, nothing wrong with a Kobold lugging around a spellbook almost half as big as he is. (I had a friend who played a Kobold Barbarian once. Dakdak the Mighty was one of the greatest characters ever.)


First of all i dont understand if qualifing as Dragon i get d12 for HP and 6+Int skill points or i just follow the Wizard rules. I am sure i get dragon Traits (darkvision, lowlight, etc).

Well, let's look at the RAW involved. According to the Dragonwrought feat:
Your type is dragon rather than humanoid, and you lose the dragonblood subtype. You retain all your other subtypes and your kobold racial traits. Your scales become tinted with a color that matches that of your draconic heritage. As a dragon, you are immune to magic sleep and paralysis effects. You have darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision. You gain a +2 racial bonus on the skill indicated for your draconic heritage on the table on page 103.

And, according to the Dragon type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#dragonType):
Features

A dragon has the following features. 12-sided Hit Dice. Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter). Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. Skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

A dragon possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in the description of a particular kind). Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision. Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects. Proficient with its natural weapons only unless humanoid in form (or capable of assuming humanoid form), in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry. Proficient with no armor. Dragons eat, sleep, and breathe.

So where does that leave us? Well, generally speaking, BAB, saves, and skill points granted by class levels override those granted by monster type. The specific language at which I'm looking says (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels):
Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.
And (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#increasingHitDice):
Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

Thus, short version, your d12 is overwritten by your class levels. You get Wizard's d4 HP and 2+Int skills.

[EvilPig]

Ayone can link me Spellhoarding template? I could not find what it do.
I was thinking at wizard to take variant from UA to get quick summon and epower summon in place of familiar and scribe scrolls.
How about i get lvl in wizard (focused specialist variant), then sorcerer and then i do draconic rites. In this way wizard and sorcerer lvl stacks? How this work?
With spellhoarding template i cast on int or cha? Also in this way i could qualify for ultimate magus?

[EvilPig]

Red Fel thanks a lot for your infos

[Red Fel]

Ayone can link me Spellhoarding template? I could not find what it do.
I was thinking at wizard to take variant from UA to get quick summon and epower summon in place of familiar and scribe scrolls.
How about i get lvl in wizard (focused specialist variant), then sorcerer and then i do draconic rites. In this way wizard and sorcerer lvl stacks? How this work?
With spellhoarding template i cast on int or cha? Also in this way i could qualify for ultimate magus?

The Spellhoarding template is one of the Dragon Psychoses templates from Dragon Magazine. For a short version of what it does: Replaces a Dragon's Sorcerer casting with Wizard casting. Uses your scales as a spellbook (called your spellhoard). You may lose spells from your spellhoard to cast them without xp or gp components, or as from a scroll. Gain +2 Int, -4 Wis, Eschew Materials and Scribe Scroll as bonus feats, and +5 to Spellcraft.And yes, if you're casting as a Wizard, you cast from Int.

Dragon Psychoses can be applied to True Dragons. There is debate - extensive debate - over whether a Dragonwrought Kobold, because it is a Dragon that advances by age category, can be considered a True Dragon. It boils down to this: If Dragonwrought Kobold is a True Dragon, it can take Sovereign Archetypes and Dragon Psychoses. (Find a comprehensive list here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?303204-The-Truest-of-the-True-A-Handbook-to-non-Kobold-Dragons-%28WIP%29).) If Dragonwrough Kobold is not a True Dragon, then it is only a Dragon in type, like the Pseudodragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pseudodragon.htm). It cannot take Sovereign Archetypes or Dragon Psychoses.
Whether it is or it isn't, as mentioned, is an extensive debate, and probably best settled between you and your DM.

As an aside, your Wizard and Sorcerer levels generally do not stack. You would be stunting your CL progression to attempt to combine them. The regular Draconic Rite does not require Sorcerer levels at all; it simply gives you a 1st-level Sorcerer spell as a 1/day SLA; the Greater Draconic Rite, however, applies only to your Sorcerer casting, not to Wizard. In short, the regular Rite may be useful to any Kobold, but the Greater is only useful for Kobold Sorcerers.

[Daishain]

Ayone can link me Spellhoarding template? I could not find what it do.
I was thinking at wizard to take variant from UA to get quick summon and epower summon in place of familiar and scribe scrolls.
How about i get lvl in wizard (focused specialist variant), then sorcerer and then i do draconic rites. In this way wizard and sorcerer lvl stacks? How this work?
With spellhoarding template i cast on int or cha? Also in this way i could qualify for ultimate magus?
The wording suggests that you cast on Int, but I don't have the magazine needed to confirm.

Frankly, I'm not even sure you can apply that template to a Kobold, at least not to practical effect. Again, I don't have the magazine to check on the details, but it sounds like it is referencing a true dragon's innate spontaneous spellcasting that advances with age rather than class levels, which even dragonwrought kobold sorcerers simply do not get.

In addition, I believe that the answer to your question of qualifying as ultimate magus is no. You must be able to spontaneously cast 1st level spells, and the template (if it works) gives up all your sorcerer's spontaneous spells

I think you would have to dip into a different spontaneous casting class (dread necromancer perhaps?) to qualify with that template.

[WhamBamSam]

There are reasons to play a Dragonwrought Wizard without jumping straight for the top shelf gouda with a Spellhoarding Loredrake (which your DM will probably not allow).

A personal favorite bit of Dragon-type cheese (just dragon type, this works regardless of where you stand on the True Dragon argument) for me is this little bit of bad writing from Races of the Dragon.
Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers or spells that require the dragonblood subtype.Automatically means automatically, so you can ignore the other prereqs for most things with the Dragonblood subtype as a prereq. Among those is the Singer of Concordance PrC, also from Races of the Dragon. It's intended for Clerics of Io, but will progress any spellcasting class, and any dragon (such as a Dragonwrought Kobold) qualifies automatically. It's not that great a PrC, but it's defensive abilities are powerful at low levels when it wasn't really intended for you to have them. It also gives you a Bonus Domain from Io's list, so if you're a Domain Wizard, you'll get more options to prepare in your domain slots (and more still if you can get access to Substitute Domain (Spell Compendium) somehow (friendly Cleric, Eternal Wand, or Wyrm Wizard 2 would be the most likely methods) as you can worship any deity you like and still qualify). All you really lose is your 5th level bonus feat/Spontaneous Divination.

Dragonwrought Kobold Domain Wizard 1/Singer of Concordance 5/Divine Oracle 2/Full-Casting +12 is not a bad way to go. You'll have 3 domains, which Substitute Domain can shuffle around, filling up what few holes exist in the Wizard spell list, and good low-level defenses when you're at your squishiest.

That said, if you want to go for Spellhoarding, the Dragon Psychosis templates are in Dragon Magazine 313.

[EvilPig]

I just read DR 313 and make me a little clear.

But RAW i need to know how to build the char.


As lvl 1 talent i take Dragonwrought then i decide to apply to my Kobold Spellhoarding template and decide to be older then 121 years.

So i have -4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Cos, -1 Wis, +5 Int, +3 Cha.

I would like to take first lvl as Wizards. Focused Specialist in Conjuration with UA variant to get Rapid and Enhance Summoning in place of familiar and scribe scrolls (but i still have this feat from Spellhoarding template). I am doing right till now?

How about all the rites?
Then whats up if take a lvl in Sorc? How i have to progress?

My Wizard should be a great controlloer. I love summon spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) from UA doesn't have a Con penalty.

Be sure to get the Spellhoarding archetype from Dragons of Eberron, which gives you two levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability, which is automatically turned into equal levels of Wizard spellcasting due to Spellhoarding.

I would normally recommend taking Abrupt Jaunt in PH2 instead of Rapid Summoning, and later on see if you can take the feat Obtain Familiar and trade that for Rapid Summoning. However, with this build you should actually be able to pick up a level of Sorcerer, which increases your Wizard spellcasting due to Spellhoarding, and trade that familiar class feature for Rapid Summoning. As long as you're a specialist Conjurer and would be able to gain a familiar, you can trade that ability to gain a familiar (regardless of where it came from) for Rapid Summoning.

[EvilPig]

With Spellhoarding i get wizard progression for spells? Also i get 2 new spells inscribed on my skin when i get a new leve as wizard?
Just to be clear... at first level i cast as wizard lvl 3?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

With Spellhoarding i get wizard progression for spells? Also i get 2 new spells inscribed on my skin when i get a new leve as wizard?
Just to be clear... at first level i cast as wizard lvl 3?

Yes to everything.

[EvilPig]

So this mean i can be a wizard at 100% ? Without any drawback? I can specialize and everything else?
With dragon rites of passage what advantage i could? Those rites are normal feats? Or just something i can do?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So this mean i can be a wizard at 100% ? Without any drawback? I can specialize and everything else?
With dragon rites of passage what advantage i could? Those rites are normal feats? Or just something i can do?

All your spellcasting will be Wizard spellcasting. Every level of Sorcerer spellcasting you gain will instead be added to your Wizard spellcasting. As long as you take at least one level of Wizard you'll have all the benefits that a Wizard would normally have, including specialization.

The Draconic Rite of Passage is detailed in Races of the Dragon page 43. The Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) is at the link provided, and works nearly the same way. The only feat you spend is on Draconic Reservoir, which is also at the link provided. Be sure to pick a spell that's going to remain useful for your Draconic Rite of Passage, such as Nerveskitter or Benign Transposition, though you could also pick Identify to not need a material component, or Charm Person to qualify for a Mindbender dip despite banning Enchantment.

You could actually go Wizard 5/ Sorcerer 1/ Ultimate Magus, using the Spontaneous Divination ACF in CC at Wizard 5 to qualify for the spontaneous casting prerequisite, and apply the spontaneous casting class increases to Sorcerer which immediately would be converted to levels of Wizard spellcasting thanks to Spellhoarding. So ten levels of Ultimate Magus would give you seventeen levels of Wizard spellcasting, on top of Loredrake and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. You have to trade your Wizard 5 bonus feat for Spontaneous Divination, so you can't use this if you trade Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning. I would instead use this Wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard), which gives you a Fighter bonus feat at 1st and 5th instead of the normal Wizard bonus feats. Take Improved Initiative at 1st from that, and you still have a bonus feat at 5th that you can trade for Spontaneous Divination.

[EvilPig]

Ultimate magus will give "only" 17 wizard levels in addition the 5 wizard and 1 sorc (this stack with wizard?) i alrady got when i enter in prestige class? Then 3 lvl more with template and rites? Lorekeeper what else will give?
So i will cast as what lvl? Since lvl are up 20 where i found the right progression for spells?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ultimate magus will give "only" 17 wizard levels in addition the 5 wizard and 1 sorc (this stack with wizard?) i alrady got when i enter in prestige class? Then 3 lvl more with template and rites? Lorekeeper what else will give?
So i will cast as what lvl? Since lvl are up 20 where i found the right progression for spells?

After Wizard 20 you don't get any additional spells/day, but you continue gaining spells known and your caster level keeps increasing.

Wizard 5/ Sorcerer 1/ Ultimate Magus X, with Loredrake and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, should have the following spellcasting:

Character level; Class level; Effective Wizard level
1. Wizard 1; 3rd (Wizard 1; Loredrake Sorcerer +2 becomes Wizard +2)
2. Sorcerer 1; 4th (Sorcerer 1 becomes Wizard +1)
3. Wizard 2; 5th (Wizard +1)
4. Wizard 3; 6th (Wizard +1)
5. Wizard 4; 7th (Wizard +1)
6. Wizard 5; 9th (Wizard +1; Greater Rite Sorcerer +1 becomes Wizard +1)
7. Ultimate Magus 1; 10th (Ultimate Magus Sorcerer +1 becomes Wizard +1)
8. Ultimate Magus 2; 12th (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)
9. Ultimate Magus 3; 14th (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)
10. Ultimate Magus 4; 15th (Ultimate Magus Sorcerer +1 becomes Wizard +1)
11. Ultimate Magus 5; 17th (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)
12. Ultimate Magus 6; 19th (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)
13. Ultimate Magus 7; 20th (Ultimate Magus Sorcerer +1 becomes Wizard +1)
14. Ultimate Magus 8; 22nd (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)
15. Ultimate Magus 9; 24th (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)
16. Ultimate Magus 10; 26th (Ultimate Magus +1 to both Sorcerer and Wizard, Sorcerer converts to Wizard)

[EvilPig]

This sound to be great. Thanks a lot

[EvilPig]

Is good get all those wizard lvls or is better get in another prestige like incantatrix?
What feats i should get and at what lvl?

[EvilPig]

I was thinking to take dragon wings at lvl 3.
I got alter self and as dragon i have many forms that got fly but i think that have just wings is better.

[EvilPig]

Bump. I need a little few to finalize my char :)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Bump. I need a little few to finalize my char :)

Incantatrix is pretty good, I'd probably start taking it after Ultimate Magus 5, so you get access to 9th level spells at your 11th character level. Be sure to get its Iron Will prerequisite from the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel. You can even apply its prohibited school to Sorcerer, which you don't even cast spells from anyway!

Be sure to pick up Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) asap, and invest every skill point you get after that into it for the greatest return. This will boost your Spellcraft check high enough to use Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic to add Persistent Spells to your highest level spells by taking ten on the check. You can use Cooperative Metamagic on your own spells outside of combat because the action economy system only exists during initiative. Make the item familiar a ring or similar, you can wear the above gauntlet over it so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or slight of hand it. Item familiars are intelligent items which are regarded as constructs, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas. It can start as a +1 Ring of Protection and you can upgrade it yourself to another type of ring that has a +1 Deflection bonus to AC added per MIC p234, which should only cost you the normal price for crafting the type of ring you upgrade it to.

[EvilPig]

I forgot to ask. With loredrake i also get skill point, hd, new bab etc?

[WhamBamSam]

I forgot to ask. With loredrake i also get skill point, hd, new bab etc?No. You 'only' get the 2 extra levels of spellcasting progression.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I forgot to ask. With loredrake i also get skill point, hd, new bab etc?

You have no racial hit dice, which is a good thing, because that would be that many fewer class levels you could take. The BAB, base skill points, base saves, etc. of racial hit dice do not carry over to class levels.

[EvilPig]

If i take familiar with
http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/obtain-familiar--2078/
Can i use the variant of wizard and drop again familiar? Since i alrady dropped one at llv 1