Other Floating Feats?

[Nettlekid]

The Chameleon's single best class feature in my opinion is its floating feat, which offers more versatility in style (if not power) than even the changing spells it gets. I was hoping to capitalize on it as an item crafter by using it on feats which are keyed to other feats, in conjunction with gaining Item Creation feats elsewhere. For example, using it for Magical Artisan to decrease the cost of items made with whatever Item Creation feat I choose elsewhere. Trouble is, I can't seem to find a good other source of a changeable feat. The best option I think is the Binder binding Astaroth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a), but that requires significant investment and I was hoping to have 12 levels of Warlock in order to make use of Imbue Item. I don't want to use the DCFS in this, so please no suggestions of "Cast Heroics and DCFS it out for something else," or anything of that nature. Also I presume it would have to stick around long enough to make an item, so the Void Disciple probably wouldn't work (but if you have reasoning otherwise I'd like to hear it.) Any other suggestions?

[Troacctid]

Why not just go Binder 5/Chameleon 10? Chameleons get enough spells that they don't really need Imbue Item. Binder 5 with Improved Binding is enough for Astaroth, and you can get Disguise as a class skill by being a Silverbrow Human.

Edit: Or dip Artificer, which gets the equivalent of Imbue Item at 1st level instead of 12th.

[Chronos]

Can you qualify for the feats you want as a binder/chameleon? Remember, a chameleon can't use anything gained from aptitude focus to qualify for anything.

[Nettlekid]

Why not just go Binder 5/Chameleon 10? Chameleons get enough spells that they don't really need Imbue Item. Binder 5 with Improved Binding is enough for Astaroth, and you can get Disguise as a class skill by being a Silverbrow Human.

Edit: Or dip Artificer, which gets the equivalent of Imbue Item at 1st level instead of 12th.

Just going all the way with Chameleon means I couldn't make items of 7-9th level spells, which is kind of bad, since I won't have a whole lot else going for me.

Does the Artificer's crafting ability work for non-Artificer CL? Like, I see it says that you can emulate spells with a UMD check, and then that the Artificer's CL counts as its Artificer level+2, so with an Artificer dip I could make CL 3 Items. But could I use Chameleon's CL 20 to meet CL requirements and then independently emulate spells with a UMD check?

Obviously I don't want to make a build that begs "Why not just play an Artificer instead of a weird Artificer wannabe with an Artificer dip?" but if that works, then it might be a pretty kooky "I can do a bunch of stuff, pretend to be a bunch of people, and make items too in my spare time." Which is pretty neat.

EDIT:
Can you qualify for the feats you want as a binder/chameleon? Remember, a chameleon can't use anything gained from aptitude focus to qualify for anything.

I'm keeping that in mind, and maybe I'll mess up somewhere, but I'm pretty sure I do qualify. I'd be using the Binder to get Astaroth, which gives me an Item Creation feat, and then the Chameleon's feat to get Magical Artisan (The Item Creation feat I just got) to get a discount on that Item Creation feat. I'd only be limited to Item Creation feats with a CL requirement less than my Binder level (so I think Craft Staff is out, but if I do Binder 10/Chameleon 10 I don't think anything else is lost) or Item Creation feats which have other Item Creation feats (or really anything else) as prereqs, like Craft Construct.

[SinsI]

Can't you just make yourself some items that grant you appropriate feats?

[Troacctid]

Just going all the way with Chameleon means I couldn't make items of 7-9th level spells, which is kind of bad, since I won't have a whole lot else going for me.

Does the Artificer's crafting ability work for non-Artificer CL? Like, I see it says that you can emulate spells with a UMD check, and then that the Artificer's CL counts as its Artificer level+2, so with an Artificer dip I could make CL 3 Items. But could I use Chameleon's CL 20 to meet CL requirements and then independently emulate spells with a UMD check?

Obviously I don't want to make a build that begs "Why not just play an Artificer instead of a weird Artificer wannabe with an Artificer dip?" but if that works, then it might be a pretty kooky "I can do a bunch of stuff, pretend to be a bunch of people, and make items too in my spare time." Which is pretty neat.

As a Chameleon 10, I'd say you still have plenty going for you. You're not just crafting items with your spells--you're also casting them and kicking ass. 6th level spells are nothing to shake a stick at, nor are 4th level vestiges. (You only need Astaroth on your off days, after all.)

[Nettlekid]

As a Chameleon 10, I'd say you still have plenty going for you. You're not just crafting items with your spells--you're also casting them and kicking ass. 6th level spells are nothing to shake a stick at, nor are 4th level vestiges.

At 20th level, though? I've always been somewhat of the mind that specialization leaves you better off than dabbling, and these are classes that are all about dabbling so it's like you're dabbling in dabbling.

I'm also annoyed that there doesn't seem to be a way, barring Bloodline cheese, to nab 3 vestiges with Binder 10/Chameleon 10. Just two levels away with Improved Binding.

EDIT: So which looks like a more solid build, Artificer 1/Binder 9/Chameleon 10, or Artificer 1/Binder 17/Chameleon 2?

[Troacctid]

At 20th level, though? I've always been somewhat of the mind that specialization leaves you better off than dabbling, and these are classes that are all about dabbling so it's like you're dabbling in dabbling.

I'm also annoyed that there doesn't seem to be a way, barring Bloodline cheese, to nab 3 vestiges with Binder 10/Chameleon 10. Just two levels away with Improved Binding.

You're still an order of magnitude above any non-caster. But if you must have 9ths, you could try finagling in Sublime Chord/Anima Mage or Ur-Priest/Tenebrous Apostate for the latter levels.

Improved Binding doesn't affect the number of vestiges you can bind, so it's not actually that close to triple vestiges.

[Nettlekid]

You're still an order of magnitude above any non-caster. But if you must have 9ths, you could try finagling in Sublime Chord/Anima Mage or Ur-Priest/Tenebrous Apostate for the latter levels.

Improved Binding doesn't affect the number of vestiges you can bind, so it's not actually that close to triple vestiges.

Oh, right you are. I must have been thinking about how the PrC advancement of binding does count that but not other Binder benefits, and confused them.

Sublime Chord is too complicated, and I think Tenebrous Apostate would clash with Ur-Priest since you have to worship Tenebrous as a god, and Ur-Priests hate gods. Unless maybe Tenebrous counts enough as a "nothing" (being a vestige and a lost remnant of divinity) so that Ur-Priests can get behind that.

An Artificer 1/Binder 6/Ur-Priest 2/Tenebrous Apostate 5/Chameleon 2/Divine PrC +4 gets full Ur-Priest casting, 2 6th level Vestiges, and the crafting combo I was hoping for. That's not too bad, though it's certainly not an elegant build.

[SiuiS]

Just going all the way with Chameleon means I couldn't make items of 7-9th level spells, which is kind of bad, since I won't have a whole lot else going for me.

Champion of legacy explicitly advances other prestige classes, doesn't it? So you could take that and continue gaining CL as a chameleon?

[Nettlekid]

Champion of legacy explicitly advances other prestige classes, doesn't it? So you could take that and continue gaining CL as a chameleon?

I said that when I wasn't using the Artificer 1 "emulate spell" feature, so while the Chameleon's high CL was perfectly fine, the problem was that it doesn't get 7-9th level spell slots and so I couldn't cast those spells in order to make items out of them.