Spoiler- Epic Reinforcements?

[Tulisin]

There are a few recurring themes with huge fantasy battles like the one we're seeing now.

1. Good side usually defending fortifications and being assaulted by evil people.
2. Good side favors quality over quantity, evil the reverse.
3. Evil side has a secret weapon.
4. Good side has some awesome reinforcements that appear at the last minute.

So far we've seen 1, 2, and possibly 3 (Titanium golems could fufill secret weapon, or whatever they're cooking with Xykon).

So, we're missing some epic last-minute reinforcements for the good guys. Problem is - the OoTS hasn't really made any friends with powerful individuals that could save them.

Possibilities:
Captain Julio and a fleet of airships?
The oracle?
One of the members of Dorukan's old group?
Celia and some elementals?
Hilgya with dwarves?
Someone else?

Of course, the series isn't even close to over yet, so this isn't the absolute final battle, maybe Azure City will just fall.

[sikyon]

There's also the 2 super-members durkon found in the first few OTS...(joke)

Also Evil Side DOES have a secret weapon, which has been around for quite a while.

[Tulisin]

There's also the 2 super-members durkon found in the first few OTS...(joke)

Also Evil Side DOES have a secret weapon, which has been around for quite a while.

I'd totally forgotten about MitD's status as a veiled superweapon, but I think it more likely he'll be unveiled later in the plot.

[Querzis]

There's also the 2 super-members durkon found in the first few OTS...(joke)

Also Evil Side DOES have a secret weapon, which has been around for quite a while.

Yes, a secret weapon that suck at «Who hit the lightest». but I dont think there is going to be reinforcement for the good guys this time or at least, it wont be epic reinforcement.

[Hoorex]

Roy does have the "booty" talismen after all...that'd be a safe bet...

[blackout]

Captain Julio/airship support: Possible.:)
The Oracle: Pfft. ain't happenin'.
Dorukan's Old Group: Possible, but doubt it.
Celia/Elementals: Very possible, but not likely.
Hilgya: NO.
Someone Else: No.

[Tilian]

Celia and some elementals?


That's just begging for tragedy.

[HomerHT]

I could totally see Lirian or Girard showing up. Maybe even Serini. All three of them should be epic level and more than an equalizer for team Good. Julio would be an interesting choice, though he'd inevitably die--way of the Dashing Swordsman and all that. Celia also has "imminent death" written on her forehead. I hope Roy doesn't use the booty talisman, but he may have to...

[Tolkien_Freak]

Of course, the nobles could repent when they see their lovely castles getting plundered, and have their loyal armies join the fun...

Why did no one think of the nobles?

[Haruki-kun]

Captain Julio/airship support: Possible.:)
The Oracle: Pfft. ain't happenin'.
Dorukan's Old Group: Possible, but doubt it.
Celia/Elementals: Very possible, but not likely.
Hilgya: NO.
Someone Else: No.

Captain Julio: I disagree. He'd never return to Azure city because first he's a wanted criminal, and second, he wouldn't want to die plot-wise.
The Oracle: "Pfft. ain't happenin'" is quite correct. How much good would he do anyway? the most he could do is get killed by Belkar.
Dorukan's old group: Wouldn't they be DEAD by now?
Celia/Elementals: Agreed as well. I don't think Celia is a very heroic character.
Hilgya and Dwarves: YES. VERY POSSIBLE. Hilgya is the only character so far who'd actually be likely to show up, precisely because she'd come with the dwarves. The dwarves and the elves usually show up at the last minute to help their long-time inferior friends, the humans.

Someone Else: Depends on whom. Maybe V's Mate ;) or maybe Julia o.O ...........yeah, right.

[Tolkien_Freak]

Hilgya and Dwarves: YES. VERY POSSIBLE. Hilgya is the only character so far who'd actually be likely to show up, precisely because she'd come with the dwarves. The dwarves and the elves usually show up at the last minute to help their long-time inferior friends, the humans.

Someone Else: Depends on whom. Maybe V's Mate ;) or maybe Julia o.O ...........yeah, right.

Or the nobles.

And Hilgya wouldn't even KNOW they're in Azure City unless she's been following them for the past 300-odd comics, and certainly wouldn't have enough time to go back and get an army in the day or so they found out Xykon was attacking.

[Tulisin]

The oracle was stretching it, but I was wracking my mind for people of power who are associated with the OotS.

Aren't Elan/Nale related to some kind of warlord? He should have an army, right?

[WNxArrakis]

Celia and some elementals?

Dismissal!

[Artega]

Odd little theory that has little to no backing, but I think it might be fairly interesting.


As far as we know, its impossible to claim that no one knows of Xylon's army's existence except for a couple frightened (and probably reanimated) villagers.

What if, through some act of coincidence and luck, Lord Tyrinaria decides he's had enough of the Goodie Too-Shoe Azure City and their Sapphire Guard. Say, he decides to invade them to stop possible "humanitarian observers" from entering his domain. What would his excursion force encounter? A massive army of Hobgoblins/Zombies/Redcloak.

Now, approach this from an monomaniacal point of view. Do you really want some guy simply walking in and trumping your arch-nemesis when you've been planning this moment of vengence for a good long while?

It just so happens that a land army would have to go about the same path as the one Xykon has taken. Which means the army would be DIRECTLY behind the invasion force at its weakest point. Commanding posts, siege engines, anything that is delicate and needs a nice meat shield will be completely vulnerable. Regardless of the fact that they are also evil and they are also destroying an enemy state, it does not remove the fact that you have a nice situation to take advantage of.

Would it be a complete twist if the "good side [that] has some awesome reinforcements that appear at the last minute" are in fact their sworn enemies of tyranny and injustice?

[brian c]

Captain Julio: I disagree. He'd never return to Azure city because first he's a wanted criminal, and second, he wouldn't want to die plot-wise.
The Oracle: "Pfft. ain't happenin'" is quite correct. How much good would he do anyway? the most he could do is get killed by Belkar.
Dorukan's old group: Wouldn't they be DEAD by now?
Celia/Elementals: Agreed as well. I don't think Celia is a very heroic character.
Hilgya and Dwarves: YES. VERY POSSIBLE. Hilgya is the only character so far who'd actually be likely to show up, precisely because she'd come with the dwarves. The dwarves and the elves usually show up at the last minute to help their long-time inferior friends, the humans.

Someone Else: Depends on whom. Maybe V's Mate ;) or maybe Julia o.O ...........yeah, right.

Dorukan's original group wouldn't necessarily be dead, they're probably very old but as high-level adventurers that shouldn't stop them. However, Serini is the only one who shouldn't be guarding her gate (well, besides Dorukan and Lirian but I have to assume they're dead).

I don't see why Hilgya would come back; she showed absolutely no loyalty to her husband, so why would she be loyal to Durkon; and I honestly can't think of any reason at all why the dwarves would come in the first place, noboyd called them and we have no evidence that Azure City is especially friendly with the dwarves.

Celia might actually come becuse of the booty talisman, but it's hard to predict if she would be of much help, or who she would be able to get to come with her.

[Tolkien_Freak]

I don't see why Hilgya would come back; she showed absolutely no loyalty to her husband, so why would she be loyal to Durkon; and I honestly can't think of any reason at all why the dwarves would come in the first place, noboyd called them and we have no evidence that Azure City is especially friendly with the dwarves.

Celia might actually come becuse of the booty talisman, but it's hard to predict if she would be of much help, or who she would be able to get to come with her.

True, and like I said, it would be impossible to get an army from the Dwarven homelands to Azure City in the time since they realized Xykon was attacking.

And
It is NOT a Booty Talisman.
Besides, she got turned to stone by an almost-random wizard.


And I am still curious as to opinions on my nobles theory.

[brian c]

Tolkien Freak: I'm aware that it isn't actually a booty talisman, but that's the most convenient thing to call it.

As for your theory on the nobles, I agree but it's possible that this has already happened (perhaps after the ninja attacks failed) and/or the troops who would follow their lords instead of Hinjo aren't numerous enough to make a very big difference in the battle.

[The Extinguisher]

New character. Definitely a new character.

Why? Because they need one. Belkar is locked up for a year, and a new reccuring character/main character is always good.

There is like 4-7 books left. We're going to see a lot of characters come and go.

[Green Bean]

I doubt anyone from the Dorukan group will come. They're epic characters: It'd be boring.

"I slay Xykon with a single blow, then spend the next three rounds mopping up the thousands of hobgoblins."

[Illiterate Scribe]

I doubt anyone from the Dorukan group will come. They're epic characters: It'd be boring.

"I slay Xykon with a single blow, then spend the next three rounds mopping up the thousands of hobgoblins."

Epic Spell - PWND, N00BS! As it is otherwise known.

[Tulisin]

I doubt anyone from the Dorukan group will come. They're epic characters: It'd be boring.

"I slay Xykon with a single blow, then spend the next three rounds mopping up the thousands of hobgoblins."


You figure they're all about as strong as Dorukan was, and Xykon killed him. An epic character might be just what is needed to remove Xykon from the equation and even things out while those two fight.

[Mawhrin Skel]

Could Dorukan or Lirian be True Resurrected?

Or at a real stretch ... Leeky Windstaff to the rescue. Even an evil druid would loathe undead, yes?

[Jarelk]

Why is everyone questioning Celia's power?

Ultimate Spell of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0070.html)

I personally hope Celia will show up with lots of friends, hopefully being elementals.

[The Pink Ninja]

I doubt anyone from the Dorukan group will come. They're epic characters: It'd be boring.

"I slay Xykon with a single blow, then spend the next three rounds mopping up the thousands of hobgoblins."

They're probably all dead and certainly weren't Epic.

Dorukan was killed by Xykon alone

Soon died of old age

Girard is a spellcaster but human too so is either dead or extremely old.

Lirian is most likely dead since her gate and entire forest was destroyed...

[oball]

I'm sure almighty Banjo will use his immense power to utterly destroy Xykon's army.

[Purple_cloack]

I think next:
-Hilgaya and dwarfs attack
-Celia and others like him attack
-other airshps attack and elan is WOOOT!

[slayerx]

Well, i think Celia is the pretty much the only possible reinforcements i see; her and Lilian... though we didn't see it, she's the only one who might know of the attack since she knows Roy... all other possibilities are either dead, don't know of the attack, or probably ran like the selfish cowards they are (nobles)

Also i wouldn't expect someone new to show up... The way these battles go, it's always an old ally they shows up to save the day, not some random new person. Random poeple only show up to save the day from much smaller but still vital villian attacks; for example, Xykon on his own about to kill the OoTS and a newcomer jumping in at the last second to save them... a new comer however, would not come in during a massive fight such as this...

Also there is one other slight possibility... the remaining paladins of the saphire guard... it was memntioned that there were paladins who were away from Azure City at the time. If the divners have someway of contacting them, then they may know of the attack... it was sid that they were too far away to make it to the battle, but it could be possibly that with some extra perseverance, and if the battle goes on long enough, they may manage to make in the last minute... though it's highly questionable if they will enough to pull off a "rider's of Rohan"



Dorukan was killed by Xykon alone

Soon died of old age

Girard is a spellcaster but human too so is either dead or extremely old.

Lirian is most likely dead since her gate and entire forest was destroyed...
You forgot to include Serini, who is also probably dead seeing as Xykon has her diary

Lirian would be the most possible... being an elf she has long life and thus still in her prime, but as it's been said, she may have died when the forest burned down...

[Grod_The_Giant]

I predict that there are no reinforcements, and the gate is destroyed during the fighting. Just like the other two.

[Green Bean]

They're probably all dead and certainly weren't Epic.

Dorukan was killed by Xykon alone

Soon died of old age

Girard is a spellcaster but human too so is either dead or extremely old.

Lirian is most likely dead since her gate and entire forest was destroyed...

They are most likely epic level characters because 1) Xykon is epic level between his lich powers and sorcery, and it was a more or less even fight between them, 2) Dorukan mentioned that he'd use epic magic to defend the gates, and 3) the prices for traps are obscene; you'd have to be epic to afford building a dungeon.

And as for Lirian dying when her gate burned down:

:vaarsuvius:- It's a non-magical fire, it inflicts a mere 1d6 points of damage.

An epic level druid could sleep through a forest fire, and have enough time to have brunch and clean the house before she has to use a healing spell (yes, I know I'm exaggerating :smallbiggrin:)

[Jukashi]

I have to agree; Lirian is the most likely Deus Ex Machina we're likely to see. The circumstances of her "death" are much too conspicuously vague.

Consider: You are a druid. You are likely to have few companions save your animal companion. A high-level sorceror and cleric both turn up, wanting you dead. Powerful though you are yourself, if they defeat you, it essentially means the world's screwed (since they then get the gate; recall that Lirian was the one who (with Dorukan and Girard) designed the gates in the first place: thus, she's likely to realise that one might be able to control the Snarl).

Dorukan was smart enough to install a self-destruct: was Lirian as well? Was it she who burned the place down, for the greater good? A tricky dilemma for a druid, but the answer is quite clear.

Cast a fire resistance spell on yourself; burn down the forest; lose your druid powers for doing so; and spend the next X years Atoning in order to regain your abilities and then get back in the game... just in time to help out these new guys.

Even if she didn't burn down the gate herself, it's far too easy for a high-level druid to protect themselves from fire for her to die of it. If Xykon or Redcloak didn't kill her, what else could have done?

[Bluelantern]

I indeed think Lirian is alive, just because it is never said that she actually dead, it is that simple, If she is dead, it was because she died of old age, what is still unlikely.

I not sure, if she will help azure city, I think that the place will be destroyed, the last-hour enforciments will likely to be Celia and some elementals.

[slayerx]

Dorukan was smart enough to install a self-destruct: was Lirian as well? Was it she who burned the place down, for the greater good?

Nope
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html
Redcloak was the one who accidentally started the fire

Grant it, another thing that's overlooked is the possibility of not the fire killing Lirian, but Xykon... sure he didn't speciafically mention it, but unless Lirian wasn't there at the time, she would have attempted to do what she could have to stop Xykon... so it's a good possibility

[Jukashi]

Redcloak, however, says it was an "accident". It's possible that he merely tripped a trap that Lirian set up. In any case, that doesn't matter. That was merely a side-theory that has no bearing on whether or not she's alive now.

As to her not trying to stop Xykon... why would she be that stupid? Even Dorukan, a wizard who had the opportunity to memorise a bunch of arcane spells specifically for the purpose of dueling him, could not beat Xykon, and druids are not as good at spellcasting duels.

Granted, by that point Dorukan hadn't fought Xykon yet, but he was smart enough not to try it until he was prepared (Xykon says he had trouble luring Dorukan out). Lirian, a druid, could equally have seen that her chances of defeating both Xykon and Redcloak were far too slim for what was at risk if she lost.

As to her dying of old age... well, she is an elf. If Dorukan, a human, was still alive several years ago, she could easily be alive now. And at full health, I might add, due to the unaging nature of the most powerful druids.

[Pax_Chi]

Another possibility is that Red Cloak did not, in fact, accidentally destroy the gate, but did it on purpose in his secret quest to undo creation, as is implied by a lot of the story.

Regardless, Lirian and Celia are the two best bets on coming to the Order's aid. Given the OotS' general status as a lone group of adventurers, they really haven't developed a lot of contacts, allies and fellow heroes to call on for aid.

Azure City, though, could potentially have a lot of allies to call on for help.

[slayerx]

As to her not trying to stop Xykon... why would she be that stupid? Even Dorukan, a wizard who had the opportunity to memorise a bunch of arcane spells specifically for the purpose of dueling him, could not beat Xykon, and druids are not as good at spellcasting duels.

Granted, by that point Dorukan hadn't fought Xykon yet, but he was smart enough not to try it until he was prepared (Xykon says he had trouble luring Dorukan out). Lirian, a druid, could equally have seen that her chances of defeating both Xykon and Redcloak were far too slim for what was at risk if she lost.
Lirian, like dorukon would probably be about the same level as Xykon and she has the forest around her to back her up in a fight, specifically to take on Xykon's minions (redcloack and goblins). Thanks to the forest it would come down to a one on one against Xykon. What she lacks in offensive magic she makes up for in healing and melee ability, and since she is an elf she would also still be in her prime (dorukon may have suffered from the loss of constitution). When it comes down to it, she would probably have a pretty fair chance in a fight agianst Xykon... Defeating Xykon and saving the gate entirly would definatly take priority over destroying the gate for the greater good...

Hell, Dorukon as well, choose to fight Xykon instead of destorying the gate... Recall, it was a Self-destruct rune that was placed on a gate, NOT a booby trap. Once Dorukon faught and died there was no way that rune was going to go off because there was no one left to set off the rune. Dorukon threw away the chance to just destroy the gate outright in favor of trying to defeat Xykon then and there.

in short, Destorying the gate is a last resort, and she(and Dorukon) would not do so without first trying to get rid of Xykon. Afterall, get rid of Xykon and then the gate won't need to be destoryed. Destorying the gate is a VERY risking venture.

Furthermore, i doubt she was the one who destoryed the gate cause she probebly could have done so without destorying the rest of the forest with a forest fire... If she had the foresight to destory the gate, as a druid she would have found a way that would do only minimal damage to the forest.

[Zanaril]

Odd little theory that has little to no backing, but I think it might be fairly interesting.


As far as we know, its impossible to claim that no one knows of Xylon's army's existence except for a couple frightened (and probably reanimated) villagers.

What if, through some act of coincidence and luck, Lord Tyrinaria decides he's had enough of the Goodie Too-Shoe Azure City and their Sapphire Guard. Say, he decides to invade them to stop possible "humanitarian observers" from entering his domain. What would his excursion force encounter? A massive army of Hobgoblins/Zombies/Redcloak.

Now, approach this from an monomaniacal point of view. Do you really want some guy simply walking in and trumping your arch-nemesis when you've been planning this moment of vengence for a good long while?

It just so happens that a land army would have to go about the same path as the one Xykon has taken. Which means the army would be DIRECTLY behind the invasion force at its weakest point. Commanding posts, siege engines, anything that is delicate and needs a nice meat shield will be completely vulnerable. Regardless of the fact that they are also evil and they are also destroying an enemy state, it does not remove the fact that you have a nice situation to take advantage of.

Would it be a complete twist if the "good side [that] has some awesome reinforcements that appear at the last minute" are in fact their sworn enemies of tyranny and injustice?

Favorite theory yet.

Artega's right, we need a new character.