Wizard Cheese Tactics

[StoneCipher]

So, me and my friends take turns being DM every now and then. My friend has made a nightmare of my campaign by just being a bother to the party and rendering his alignment to be CS (Chaotic Stupid) and just being the worst kind of beatstick.

Now it's time for me to turn the tables on his campaign. We start at level 6.

I'm looking for cheese, great cheese, not pun-pun or unlimited wishes level cheese, but polymorph shenanigans and the like.

What ideas do you have for me, playground? So far I've followed Treantmonk's build for focused spec conjurer, deviating at level 6 to be master spec instead of mage of the arcane order. My race is lesser Tiefling. (I'm solid on the race for roleplaying reasons)

My DM has no restrictions because he has not that much grasp of the game outside of making a subpar fighter and throwing monsters at us (one time he had a phoenix burst out of the lava to attack us for no discernible reason)

I want to be overpowered, but not (literally) unstoppably broken...at least not until 20...

[RolandDeschain]

You'll get a lot of recommendations for Grey Elf, Generalist, Domain Wizard, Incantatrix. That, however, would require a complete rework of your specialized tiefling.

Frankly, your spell selection is going to make all the difference in the world:

you want to go to D&Dtools and search spells by level, and filter them - you're looking for no save/no sr spells and you're looking for swift/immediate action spells

It's been my experience that this is the quickest way to make your wizard a giant pain in the DM's backside

P.S. I personally recommend abusing the crap out of Scribe Scroll(especially starting at a level other than 1st) instead of swapping it out for improved initiative, but that's just me

[StoneCipher]

I did pick up domain wizard variant indeed. I still feel like I'm missing something since I didn't give anything up. It's like saying do you want free spells? Yes please.

[defiantdan]

How much are you willing to rework your character for this cheese? Treantmonk's stuff is usually how to play a well balanced and powerful character. Not terribly cheesey ones. do you want spellhoarding loredrake dragonwraught kinds of cheese?

[StoneCipher]

I'm only married to the race and being an arcane caster. Everything else can be cheesed as long as you can make some RP sense out of it. I plan on playing my Tiefling as NE with a god complex. Good thing I wanted to be a Wizard :smallbiggrin:

Edit:I will consider other LA 0 races, but the only thing my DM said to me was that he wanted "interesting races." I agree, who wants to be an elf all of the time?

[Vogonjeltz]

I did pick up domain wizard variant indeed. I still feel like I'm missing something since I didn't give anything up. It's like saying do you want free spells? Yes please.

Fortunately it's a poorly thought out (in balance terms) variant instead of a poorly thought out core rule. But yes, there's zero downside to taking it, although it's not an option if you're already a specialist, if I recall correctly.

[Rastapopolos]

If you're looking for cheesy and want the demonic tint, take a look at lesser fey'ri (technically its LA0) they're like teiflings on steroids and at will alter self is the bomb.

Is LA buyoff allowed? Vecna Blooded is a lovely template as it makes you completly immune to divination, if no buyoff some people say you can use up the DR to remove the LA but keep the div immunity.

Necropolitan makes you completley immune to enchantment, 90% of fort saves and a load of other undead immunities and has no LA- just a XP penalty plus you can stack as much stuff as your DM allows into your creation (desecrated alter definatly, Dread necromancer/ corpscrafter feats a bit more iffy) for D12+2-6ish hp/level, all for 1500xp. Swallow some black sand (sandstorm pg20) for pseudo fast healing 1d4/round neg energy damage.

Would second just searching for aload of broken spells, *cough*shivering touch, ray of stupidity, Celerity, shatter- useful for depriving the cleric of thier holy symbol if thier looking smity, the polymorph line - look up some things to turn into- heres a alter self guide http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811.0

I can never bring myself to specialise, theres too many spells I want. Take a look at Elven Generalist - that with domain wizard gives more spells than a specialist.

[StoneCipher]

I was considering lesser fey'ri, but I didn't know if I wanted to tip him off to me cheesing with a la 0 flying character haha. I will take a look at those suggestions and see where I am at.

[defiantdan]

Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 3/Incantatrix 3/Initiate of the Seven Veil 7/Mindbender 1/Archmage 3.

[Segev]

Familiarize yourself with the tinfoil hat trick. You make a cone out of lead or similar material that is big enough for you to stand comfortably inside. Decorate it with stars and moons to taste. Then cast shrink item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm) on it, and wear it like a hat. If your "just throws monsters and makes sub-optimal fighters" DM decides that you need to be brought down a peg with an anti-magic field, the field causes the shrink item spell to be suppressed, and suddenly you're standing inside a large lead cone. This cone breaks line of effect with the source of the emanation of the AMF, meaning that you, inside the cone, are no longer in the AMF and are free to use magic.

As a conjuration specialist, you of course have Abrupt Jaunt, so can teleport out of there on or after your next turn (assuming you didn't do so to escape the field in the first place).


Make extensive use of illusions, if you can, too. Mirror Image, annoying Silent Images that prevent his monsters from knowing where you are, Invisibility, etc. Pick up Invisible Spell, the metamagic feat, and use it on Obscuring Mist. When he inevitably brings out monsters that can see through illusions, they'll be blinded by the mist that is invisible to you and your allies. (Beware of glitterdust, though. That is what Silent Image is for, however: make more glitterdusted images!)


Augment Summoning could also be good. Bring in summoned monsters that have buff spells on them. If you can bring in ones that match what he's throwing at you, so much the better. "Mine's bigger!"

[Dalebert]

Familiarize yourself with the tinfoil hat trick... Pick up Invisible Spell, the metamagic feat, and use it on Obscuring Mist. When he inevitably brings out monsters that can see through illusions, they'll be blinded by the mist that is invisible to you and your allies.

I bow in reverence to your cheesy brilliance! I'm gonna share these.

[Segev]

I bow in reverence to your cheesy brilliance! I'm gonna share these.

To be fair, none of those were original to me; I learned them here. They are, however, in my standard list of cheesy wizard tricks for if anybody asks or I ever need them, hence my sharing of them. Glad you find them as amusing as I did!



edit to add: For one I DID come up with...

Make a cloak with Silent Image and Create Water on it. The Create Water spell is used to constantly create a very small amount of water in a broad area (basically, increase the humidity and create a bit of a clammy sensation), and the Silent Image is of a bank of fog or mist surrounding you. The DC to see through the illusion is only 11, but others must interact with it in a way that could indicate its falsehood to even have a chance. Or be told it's an illusion, in which case they get a +4 to the save (making it an effective Will DC of 7).

You tell your allies it's an illusion. They therefore know and can make the save; hopefully they succeed a DC 7! Having saved, they can see through the illusion as if it were only a faint outline, and it doesn't obscure their vision. Enemies, on the other hand, have no way to interact with the illusion without the illusion reacting appropriately, so they get no save, and are effectively blinded by it.

[Oryan77]

So you're looking to make his life as DM difficult? I know people usually do this by thinking, "I'm going to powergame!" But have you ever thought about doing the exact opposite, and on a grand scale? I would love to see how that works out.

If screwing with your DM is what your group does for kicks, try talking to the other players and see if they are all willing to make the worst PCs possible. Don't tell your DM this though. Pretend to be taking it seriously, then during each combat, keep going for a TPK. Each time a PC dies, just roll a new PC up as fast as possible...in the worst way possible. See how long you can keep it going without the DM realizing that you're doing it on purpose.

If he questions any of your bad build choices, just say it is for roleplaying purposes.

[StoneCipher]

So you're looking to make his life as DM difficult? I know people usually do this by thinking, "I'm going to powergame!" But have you ever thought about doing the exact opposite, and on a grand scale? I would love to see how that works out.

If screwing with your DM is what your group does for kicks, try talking to the other players and see if they are all willing to make the worst PCs possible. Don't tell your DM this though. Pretend to be taking it seriously, then during each combat, keep going for a TPK. Each time a PC dies, just roll a new PC up as fast as possible...in the worst way possible. See how long you can keep it going without the DM realizing that you're doing it on purpose.

If he questions any of your bad build choices, just say it is for roleplaying purposes.

While it would be fun, I know he wouldn't believe it since he knows us all too well. He knows if I made a character for RP reasons, I would at least make it manageable.

My goal is to eventually fulfill the ego that this character will have and make him as close to a god as possible just so I can dictate the campaign and ruin things.

Namely, if anyone can think of any anti-dragon cheese, that would be fantastic since this campaign's function is just killing evil dragons and demons.

[SciChronic]

to shut down his "throw dudes at you" tactics, make sure to grab shape spell, with grease and glitterdust on your spell list. then you can pretty much mass control the entire fight.

[Segev]

Anti-dragon cheese...

There's the obvious elemental resistance/immunity spells. Pick them carefully for the appropriate dragon type. Use spells that are similarly of opposed energy types; reds and golds have the [fire] subtype and thus take extra damage from cold, for instance.

Make sure you have means to fly; the dragons certainly will. They will also be faster than you; concentrate on maneuverability and tactical teleportation.

An amusing tactic I'd love to see tried at some point would be to have a party that includes an ubercharger, a full-attacker-of-doom, and a caster with benign transposition. Round 1, the ubercharger does his thing. Then the wizard benign transposes him with the full attacker of doom. The full attacker of doom now can full attack without having to waste a round moving in and without provoking AoOs. The ubercharger is also set up for a second round of charging. That round, put a touch spell in your Familiar. Next round, get the ubercharger to wait until your turn's passed so you can Benign Transpose him with your familiar. Familiar delivers touch spell, and the ubercharger charges again. If you've shared Mirror Image with your familiar like a good master, there's a good chance the AoO when your familiar takes his move action to retreat will hit the wrong one. Setting you up to benign transpose your familiar and the ubercharger again next round.

[Garktz]

not as far as pun pun on cheese territory but i.ll drop this here....
is as far as i think you can go on cheese with a wizard

http://web.archive.org/web/20061112212001/http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=540563

[StoneCipher]

Holy crap that beholder mage...too bad a dispel would basically break you until you got another scroll of PaO.

I'm not too certain on this lesser template when it comes to Fey'ri. What do I lose and what do I keep?

[Rastapopolos]

Anti dragon tactics you say? See aforementioned Shivering Touch metamagic it with reach spell, ocular spell or the archmage special ability.. use your swift action before you cast it to cast assay spell resistance and you will one shot most dragons

[StoneCipher]

So I decided on Necro lesser Fey'ri and I ultra cheesed by taking the liberties of a friendly Dread Necro with all the proper feats to make me supercharged...and made myself venerable. Along with taking DR/ FR/ Enervation/ Dim Door from my 4 Fey'ri race abilities, then took the Magic in the Blood feat. But hey, I was at least nice enough to deduct the casting of a permanent black sand spell for me to swallow from my starting gold. Bought the traditional int headband and a hat of disguise to ensure my undeath wasn't apparent, and have a nice natural bluff score to boot after picking up the snake familiar.

All I have left is two feats to decide upon. I almost felt like taking knowledge devotion because it felt like gimping myself a bit.

Wiz 5

75 HP

9 Str
16 Dex
24 Int
18 Wis
16 Cha

What should I blow my remaining 1500 gold on?

I'm looking at fun/screwey items because this guy is powerful enough at this point..

The idea is I'm going to disguise myself as a human farmer at all times until I really need to alter back to my true form.

[Darkweave31]

Since nobody else is saying it I will... Your motives for building a powerful character seem to be very antagonistic towards your DM. This is not a good reason to optimize. Before you go about trying to destroy a campaign that you don't seem to be enjoying, do your group a favor and talk to the DM. Voice your concerns and see if you can come to an agreement. It's by far the more mature thing to do than this. If your DM really wants to run a fun game for your group they will listen and try to improve.



but since I can't help myself... for the two feats you could take spell mastery and uncanny foresight for limited spontaneous casting.

[StoneCipher]

Since nobody else is saying it I will... Your motives for building a powerful character seem to be very antagonistic towards your DM. This is not a good reason to optimize. Before you go about trying to destroy a campaign that you don't seem to be enjoying, do your group a favor and talk to the DM. Voice your concerns and see if you can come to an agreement. It's by far the more mature thing to do than this. If your DM really wants to run a fun game for your group they will listen and try to improve.



but since I can't help myself... for the two feats you could take spell mastery and uncanny foresight for limited spontaneous casting.

Don't worry about it, the ENTIRE party is doing it because this guy is always a MASSIVE pain in games to everyone haha. We give each other hell and return it in kind. It will be fun watching him try to kill me.

[Segev]

On the subject of anti-dragon tactics, take a look at the Spell Compendium's "Draconic Ally" line of spells. As written, they're clearly intended to be used to call forth a dragon and bargain for its services; there is no binding in the magic, just a conjuration and the opportunity to negotiate. It provides rules for minimum amounts of payment the dragon might request.

However, it actually calls the dragon to you. While the rules state that the dragon will refuse service for less than minimum payment, it doesn't take into account the ability to do things TO the dragon once it's there.

One trick would be to call it to you and negotiate while your party robs its lair. Another would be to call it into a trap of some sort and extort its services. Or just kill it and use its corpse for whatever purpose you have in mind. Heck, having it there could be a means of acquiring a scale or blood or something to make a Simulacrum.

The spells are poorly thought-out enough to be ripe for abuse.

[Dalebert]

One trick would be to call it to you and negotiate while your party robs its lair.

I like the idea. This part seems a little tricky. It summons "a" dragon. How do you know where its lair is. I suppose you could use some divination to find out. Depending on how common dragons are, it could be very far away. The spell obviously teleports the dragon in, presumably over however far a distance is necessary.

[StoneCipher]

I do agree that's a neat trick, given the proper pre-meditated divinations. I think I have enough in my arsenal to remind him of what he puts me through. He can't think much past beatstick mentality, even when DMing, so I think Shivering Touch every now and then will put him in his place.