DC for common sense

[The Vagabond]

Minor question, what would be the DC for Common Sense and basic things? Things such as not calling a person a whore after she asked you not too, despite it being a valid description, or knowing not to jump off the side of a building.

[Alefiend]

Well, neither are matters of common sense. The first is about politeness, unless the person in question is pointing a deadly weapon at you while asking not to be called a whore. The second is just bad physics—you don't jump off the side of a building, you jump off the top. :smallcool:

[Troacctid]

Such things do not require a roll.

[Red Fel]

Call it a "Blatant Stupidity" check. Have some rules:
Blatant Stupidity

Blatant Stupidity is a skill with no associated attribute. A character may not take ranks in Blatant Stupidity, but is assumed to have 1 rank in the skill nonetheless. A character may take 10 on a Blatant Stupidity check at any time, even in combat or when otherwise under stress. The DC of the average Blatant Stupidity check is 1. It is impossible to fail a Blatant Stupidity check.

At any time, a player can ask if a Blatant Stupidity check is appropriate. If it is, he is welcome to roll for it, or to take 10, at his discretion. If successful, the player is then informed either "No, that would be blatantly stupid," or "There is nothing blatantly stupid about that."

At any time during which a player might be entitled to ask for a Blatant Stupidity check yet fails to do so, the DM may roll the check for him. If successful, the player is informed only if his proposed course of action would, in fact, be blatantly stupid. Should the DM choose not to roll the check, he may inform the player after the fact that the player failed his Blatant Stupidity check.

And there you have it. A simple mechanic for a simple problem.

[Knaight]

Well, neither are matters of common sense. The first is about politeness, unless the person in question is pointing a deadly weapon at you while asking not to be called a whore. The second is just bad physics—you don't jump off the side of a building, you jump off the top. :smallcool:

You can jump off the side of a building just fine. As for the first being common sense, I suspect the concept relates more to realizing that calling someone a whore after they've asked you not to will be an insult. It's not a particularly hard social dynamic to understand.

[Urpriest]

"Roll for common sense" type stuff is more for when the character is wiser than the player. In these situations, just look at your player archly and say "I don't think I completely understood your suggestion there."

[Threadnaught]

One of my players, the yet unnamed one, violated all common sense at one point.


In MetaMyconid's game, Circa, "he who refuses to seek help for building his character in my Gestalt Campaign and will therefore see his character die a horrible death" and I were playing.
I began climbing down a 100 foot cliff face with my Warforged Artificer, when he tries jumping to the bottom, barely missing my character. I make it to the bottom with minimum damage, while he has to roll up a new character. Circa's character made it safely to the bottom by taking similar precautions to what I did, and then climbing down like a sane player of a 2nd level character.

And how do Circa and I respect the dignity of our fallen comrade? We loot his corpse of anything valuable. :smallamused:


Okay, technically he was MetaMyconid's player at the time, but that's not the important thing, the important thing is the fact that it happened.



The DC for common sense is the DM asking a player if they're sure they want to perform an incredibly dangerous action that will lead to a character death, explaining how it would lead to a character death and the player being able to ignore such obvious warnings against doing something so obviously bad.

[The Vagabond]

"Roll for common sense" type stuff is more for when the character is wiser than the player. In these situations, just look at your player archly and say "I don't think I completely understood your suggestion there."

The primary reason I want to know is for characters with wisdom of 5-3, or Charisma of 5-3, or Intelligence of 3-5. For characters like that (I have a Tiefling with a wisdom of 5 I've been wanting to play, hence the request for a common sense roll)

[Urpriest]

The primary reason I want to know is for characters with wisdom of 5-3, or Charisma of 5-3, or Intelligence of 3-5. For characters like that (I have a Tiefling with a wisdom of 5 I've been wanting to play, hence the request for a common sense roll)

Ah I see. If it's for your own roleplaying purposes (and not the DM being stingy with hints) then DC 10 should be a good way to represent "any normal person should know this".

[jedipotter]

Minor question, what would be the DC for Common Sense and basic things?


DC of 10 works for most things. With a DC of 20 for things that really should be common sense....but are not(like never give your bank information to Prince Zander of Nigeria...ever)

[KillianHawkeye]

I would go with a DC of 5 if it's really something that you'd expect everyone to know. A DC 10 means that Commoners with no bonus will fail to have common sense 45% of the time.

[Divide by Zero]

I would go with a DC of 5 if it's really something that you'd expect everyone to know. A DC 10 means that Commoners with no bonus will fail to have common sense 45% of the time.

Take 10? Sure, they can't do that in combat, but untrained combatants aren't known for making smart tactical moves so that's perfectly reasonable too.

[KillianHawkeye]

Take 10? Sure, they can't do that in combat, but untrained combatants aren't known for making smart tactical moves so that's perfectly reasonable too.

Oh, right. I forgot about that.

[Knaight]

DC of 10 works for most things. With a DC of 20 for things that really should be common sense....but are not(like never give your bank information to Prince Zander of Nigeria...ever)

I'd be inclined towards DC 5. With your example, that still works - anyone actually informed about computers (with skill ranks) won't fail, but even somewhat smart people with no skill ranks can fail every so often, and that entire model is pretty much designed to weed out all but the most susceptible as quickly as possible, reel them in, then cash in by sheer volume.

[jedipotter]

I would go with a DC of 5 if it's really something that you'd expect everyone to know. A DC 10 means that Commoners with no bonus will fail to have common sense 45% of the time.

Well, that sounds about right.....

Too only use fiction:

The classic guard in the dark with a single torch that ''heads over to check out that strange noise''.

When ever Thor, Superman, the Hulk or Robocop walks into a room, there are always plenty of guy with guns to pointlessly shot at them...

When ever Batman, Captain America or any ninja gets into a massive out numbered fight, the bad guys will attack one at a time.....

Your already in a strange place and have a chance to see strange things...but when you touch a rock and your skin starts to turn green or like grow a hand....you keep it secret from everyone

Take any monster movie.....you will get that bit where Mayor Cupcake, despite evidence, does not believe in the monster and is more worried about the ''tourist money''.

Take any movie with a bad, bad, guy and you have that only slightly bad guy who betrays his friends to the bad guy for money or something...and the bad, bad just turns and kills them....

Teen movies and dramas are full of the jerk boy friend cheating on a girl...yet, the girl knows and stays with him

And well, soap Operas and adult dramas are full of cheating spouses and the others that let them slide...

And the old, lock Macguyver in the tool shed or lock the A-Team in the garage....

[blackspeeker]

Well, that sounds about right.....

Too only use fiction.

Just because popular media is hackneyed and lazy doesn't mean we as DM's should have all of our PCs and NPCs be bumbling oafs or not think tactically.

[Leviting]

Well, that sounds about right.....

Too only use fiction:

The classic guard in the dark with a single torch that ''heads over to check out that strange noise''.

When ever Thor, Superman, the Hulk or Robocop walks into a room, there are always plenty of guy with guns to pointlessly shot at them...

When ever Batman, Captain America or any ninja gets into a massive out numbered fight, the bad guys will attack one at a time.....

Your already in a strange place and have a chance to see strange things...but when you touch a rock and your skin starts to turn green or like grow a hand....you keep it secret from everyone

Take any monster movie.....you will get that bit where Mayor Cupcake, despite evidence, does not believe in the monster and is more worried about the ''tourist money''.

Take any movie with a bad, bad, guy and you have that only slightly bad guy who betrays his friends to the bad guy for money or something...and the bad, bad just turns and kills them....

Teen movies and dramas are full of the jerk boy friend cheating on a girl...yet, the girl knows and stays with him

And well, soap Operas and adult dramas are full of cheating spouses and the others that let them slide...

And the old, lock Macguyver in the tool shed or lock the A-Team in the garage....

Well, what does else does the guard do, turn around? What if the intruder tripped?
Also, it's not like you can run from Superman, but at least you can hope that a bullet to an eye might hurt his depth perception
When your skin turns green, do you want to have to deal with everyone knowing? I don't tell everyone every time a get ringworm, is an extra hand that much worse?
Monsters are uncommon in a city, tourist money is important.

The rest are either consciously pretending what you want is true, or really are stupid.

[Thurbane]

One thing I got drilled into me by a corporation I worked for in Occupational Health and Safety training: there is no such thing as "common" sense. Everyone's experiences are different, so no such thing as "common sense" actually exists. I personally don't subscribe to this theory.

I would say "common sense" is a DC X Wisdom check, where X is proportional to exactly how stupid what you are about to do is. Negative DCs should be possible for the extremely obvious.

[Urpriest]

One thing I got drilled into me by a corporation I worked for in Occupational Health and Safety training: there is no such thing as "common" sense. Everyone's experiences are different, so no such thing as "common sense" actually exists. I personally don't subscribe to this theory.

I would say "common sense" is a DC X Wisdom check, where X is proportional to exactly how stupid what you are about to do is. Negative DCs should be possible for the extremely obvious.

Inversely proportional, surely?

[Gracht Grabmaw]

Isn't that just a wisdom check?

[Urpriest]

Isn't that just a wisdom check?

That's what we've been saying, yes.

[dascarletm]

That's what we've been saying, yes.

No, but isn't it just a wisdom check?

:smalltongue:

[Gemini476]

One thing I got drilled into me by a corporation I worked for in Occupational Health and Safety training: there is no such thing as "common" sense. Everyone's experiences are different, so no such thing as "common sense" actually exists. I personally don't subscribe to this theory.

I would say "common sense" is a DC X Wisdom check, where X is proportional to exactly how stupid what you are about to do is. Negative DCs should be possible for the extremely obvious.
Ayup. The big thing about common sense is that it isn't.

I'd call it a DC 10 check for the appropriate skill, maybe disallowing taking 10 as well. Diplomacy or some appropriate knowledge for not calling someone a whore, perhaps, but in that case I'd honestly just ask the player "are you SURE you want to do that?"

[Dalebert]

Take 10? Sure, they can't do that in combat, but untrained combatants aren't known for making smart tactical moves so that's perfectly reasonable too.

That was my thought as well. At first, I thought 5, but then I realized that many normally sensible people do stupid things when they act rashly for whatever reason--like they're really nervous and not thinking straight or they're trying to multi-task and work quickly, they're distracted by intense combat, etc. I'm sure we've all been there. We looked back on a decision we made and think "What the Hell was I thinking?"

So 10 means that anyone, if they take a moment to think it through (take 10), will always succeed at a common sense check, but plenty of people will fail occasionally depending on the context.

[IAmTehDave]

is an extra hand that much worse?

And that's why, in the PbP game I'm in, if I ever have my alchemist pick up the "Vestigial Arm" discovery, I'm not going to tell my co-players about it unless it comes up in Narration.

[Dalebert]

And that's why, in the PbP game I'm in, if I ever have my alchemist pick up the "Vestigial Arm" discovery, I'm not going to tell my co-players about it unless it comes up in Narration.

It's just a matter of time before someone in your party walks in on you when you're paying a visit to an adult chat room. :smallcool:

[jedipotter]

Well, what does else does the guard do, turn around? What if the intruder tripped?
Also, it's not like you can run from Superman, but at least you can hope that a bullet to an eye might hurt his depth perception
When your skin turns green, do you want to have to deal with everyone knowing? I don't tell everyone every time a get ringworm, is an extra hand that much worse?
Monsters are uncommon in a city, tourist money is important.

The rest are either consciously pretending what you want is true, or really are stupid.



1. The smart guard hits the 'yellow alert' and calls for back up....they never go ''look for a strange noise'' by themselves.

2.You can run or give up, there is no point putting up a fight....

3.Yes....

4.So says Mayor Cupcake....


What most would call ''common sense'' is not all that common.

[dascarletm]

1. The smart guard hits the 'yellow alert' and calls for back up....they never go ''look for a strange noise'' by themselves.

2.You can run or give up, there is no point putting up a fight....

3.Yes....

4.So says Mayor Cupcake....


What most would call ''common sense'' is not all that common.

Let me take a crack at this!

1. Is that actually the protocol used in military or other guarded station (ignoring comm channels, unless that is duplicated with magic), or just something you decided should be protocol for a guard hearing a noise that could very well not be anything.

2. I agree. Though is superman an established thing at this point or is he/his powers relatively unknown/understood? That would make a big difference.

3 N/A

4. "Mayor cupcake? You mean that nutter that says there is some "monster" in his town. Wait what are all these paranormal investigators doing? This looks like Roswell. I bet he made that up to attract more tourism."

[Thurbane]

Inversely proportional, surely?

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

[Sir Garanok]

I 'd say DC 1 or 2 depending on the task
so if someone has -3 modifier has some chances of failing.

A person of >8 wisdom will not do stuff like suiciding because he didn't realize how high it was.

The DM should make clear the mechanics of damage if that's the case.

[Thurbane]

2.You can run or give up, there is no point putting up a fight....

Well, if it's specifically Superman we are talking about, the time-honored methods are:

A.) Have/acquire Kryptonite
B.) Have/acquire some form of magic (unless DC have retconned Superman AGAIN): he is also vulnerable to all things mystical
C.) Hold some innocent/person of interest hostage to violence in such a way that Superman's ridiculous laundry list of powers can't be used as an "I Win!" button to save them
D.) <Insert plot-device of latest title writer here>

...sorry for the derail...

[Gemini476]

B.) Have/acquire some form of magic (unless DC have retconned Superman AGAIN): he is also vulnerable to all things mystical

Last I remember it was less "vulnerable to all things mystical" and more "magic gets around his super-defenses and affects him as if he were an ordinary unpowered human". So make sure that your magic is somewhat useful, at least. (Incidentally, IIRC this meant that magical weaponry also got around his defenses. Get the pope to bless some bullets for you or something.)

They might have changed that, though.

[Thurbane]

Last I remember it was less "vulnerable to all things mystical" and more "magic gets around his super-defenses and affects him as if he were an ordinary unpowered human". So make sure that your magic is somewhat useful, at least. (Incidentally, IIRC this meant that magical weaponry also got around his defenses. Get the pope to bless some bullets for you or something.)

They might have changed that, though.

Makes you wonder why Lex Luthor (when he used to be Eeeeeevil) never simply got one of the DC-verse magic types to enchant a bullet and pay Deadshot (or heck, even a normal everyday marksman) to nail Supes in the noggin with a sniper rifle?

Entirely possible it's changed though; the DC universe seems to reboot more often than my last dodgy Pentium.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Quite often this is an out of game issue, either the players aren't quite picturing a scene properly or have some misunderstanding of the rules. My usual response to a player wanting to do something stupid is "what do you think will happen by doing this?" Either the player will identify what they are misinterpreting or they will realise that they are about to do something colossally dumb. If they play coy and say something like "we'll see :smallwink:" then the character goes ahead and performs the action all consequences be damned.

[j_spencer93]

lol no he is still vulnerable to magic, which effects him basically as if he was a normal being (with a extreme amount of endurance still). The new 52 also has energy attacks actually effecting him, but this is not explained yet. Simply could be energy attacks faze him but can not truly hurt him.

[Threadnaught]

1. The smart guard hits the 'yellow alert' and calls for back up....they never go ''look for a strange noise'' by themselves.

Okay, so when breaking into the villain's stronghold, the heroes find every single entrance and decide they're going to enter via the most well defended. They do this by finding the weakest defended entrances and throw a stone near each to alert the guards from all over the fortress. Then they walk in through the front door now unguarded, right up to the Evil Emperor who is upset that his guards were stupid enough to treat every scuttling mouse as an invading army.

[NichG]

Proper guard teams should be composed of at least three guards. Upon detecting something, one guard tells their team mates and goes to check it out. If the guard doesn't return or give some kind of notice within (timespan that is reasonable given the rules of the game) - 30-60 seconds lets say, one of the remaining team signals the alert while, if necessary, the second remaining guard acts to delay the invaders and/or remain on scene to provide information about changes to the situation.

Once an alert is sounded, that means that at least one guard has already been killed. At that time, any sorts of portcullis/etc that can be lowered to create a bottleneck should be employed, so that if the intruders have very good stealth or whatever they can't just keep picking off guards.

The result is that trivial things don't escalate, but the things that aren't trivial put the entire defended compound on high alert and increase the guard density. As such, the 'throw a stone at every gate' tactic actually causes a disadvantage for the invaders since it gradually increases the alert status of the fort - which means getting off-shift guards out of bed, limiting the directions of access (and increasing resistance in those places), etc.