Weekly Archer Thread

[Baroknik]

Hey all, I know the archer-type (sorry for the pun) of the "one shot one kill" is pretty close to impossible to do well in 3.5, but I was thinking about this combination and was curious where to go from here to get some more mileage...

Elf Warblade 1 / Sleeping Tiger Decisive Strike Monk 2
Feats:
(R) Weapon Prof: Longbow
(1) Weapon Focus: Longsword
(MB1) Weapon Finesse
(MB2) Improved Initiative
(3) Whirling Steel Style

The idea I had was that Warblade's Weapon Aptitude will allow him to treat Whirling Steel Style for Longbow, and so treat it as a monk weapon and gain double damage with a single attack at -2 as a full-round action... Not ideal, but combining it with splitting, etc. It seems like it could be pretty useful. Any suggestions on the build to add more damage to the single shot?

I am also have a couple of mechanical questions:
1) I assume extra dice wouldn't increase their damage? I know that is normally the case, but just wanted to double check since Decisive Strike simply states that the attack deals double damage.

2) If I took Stunning Fist instead of the Hidden Tiger route, could Adaptive Style allow Stunning Fist attempts through the bow?


By the way, there is one catch that would require a ruling from your DM -- Whirling Steel Style requires Flurry of Blows, which Decisive Strike replaces.

[malonkey1]

2) I believe so, yes, but it's kind of a danger zone.

[aethel27]

Why use archer? Play a dwarfy ranged character


Note Requires Pathfinder

From the pathfinder forums of cheese Advice I present the thread I throw a rock at it (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qkpe&page=1?I-Throw-a-Rock-at-it)
Osirion Cao Phen Jan 15, 2014, 09:45 AM

Ok, Variant on the Rock Thrower which would hopefully fufill all proficiency requirements and such.

Tally-Ho, the Dwarven Rock-Heaver:

Dwarf Stone Oracle 4/Weapon Master 7

STR - 18
DEX - 13
CON - 10+2
INT - 7
WIS - 9+2
CHA - 14-2

Favored Class Bonus -
Oracle:

Traits - Zest for Battle, Fate's Favored

1 - Rock Throwing, Point-Blank Shot
2 -
3 - Precise Shot
4 -
5 - Rapid Shot, Quick Draw
6 - Deadly Aim
7 - Weapon Focus (Rock), Weapon Training (Rock)
8 - Weapon Specialization (Rock)
9 - Improved Critical
10 - Clustered Shots
11 - Disposable Weapon, Weapon Training (Rock)

Bless, Divine Favor will both be casted beforehand. This will add +2/+3 to the calculations (already added in)

1 - +3(2d4+9)
2 - +4(2d4+9)
3 - +5(2d4+9)
4 - +9(2d4+9) - Non-proficiency is cleared, +1 STR
5 - +8(2d4+9) - Rapid Shot
6 - +11(2d4+14) - Rapid Shot/Deadly Aim, Belt of Migthy Hurling
7 - +14(2d4+15)
8 - +16(2d4+20) - +1 STR
9 - +16(2d4+22)
10 - +18(2d4+23) - Greater Belt of Mighty Hurling
11 - +20(2d4+24)

No Barbarian class this time. Strength is less, but the casting of Bless and Divine Favor covers it. Range is reduced by 10, resulting to a 30 range without penalty, maximum range of Point-Blank Shot.

[Darkweave31]

2) I believe so, yes, but it's kind of a danger zone.

Well it would make him a top gun

[Baroknik]

Why use archer? Play a dwarfy ranged character


Note Requires Pathfinder

From the pathfinder forums of cheese Advice I present the thread I throw a rock at it (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qkpe&page=1?I-Throw-a-Rock-at-it)
Osirion Cao Phen Jan 15, 2014, 09:45 AM

Ok, Variant on the Rock Thrower which would hopefully fufill all proficiency requirements and such.

Tally-Ho, the Dwarven Rock-Heaver:

Dwarf Stone Oracle 4/Weapon Master 7

STR - 18
DEX - 13
CON - 10+2
INT - 7
WIS - 9+2
CHA - 14-2

Favored Class Bonus -
Oracle:

Traits - Zest for Battle, Fate's Favored

1 - Rock Throwing, Point-Blank Shot
2 -
3 - Precise Shot
4 -
5 - Rapid Shot, Quick Draw
6 - Deadly Aim
7 - Weapon Focus (Rock), Weapon Training (Rock)
8 - Weapon Specialization (Rock)
9 - Improved Critical
10 - Clustered Shots
11 - Disposable Weapon, Weapon Training (Rock)

Bless, Divine Favor will both be casted beforehand. This will add +2/+3 to the calculations (already added in)

1 - +3(2d4+9)
2 - +4(2d4+9)
3 - +5(2d4+9)
4 - +9(2d4+9) - Non-proficiency is cleared, +1 STR
5 - +8(2d4+9) - Rapid Shot
6 - +11(2d4+14) - Rapid Shot/Deadly Aim, Belt of Migthy Hurling
7 - +14(2d4+15)
8 - +16(2d4+20) - +1 STR
9 - +16(2d4+22)
10 - +18(2d4+23) - Greater Belt of Mighty Hurling
11 - +20(2d4+24)

No Barbarian class this time. Strength is less, but the casting of Bless and Divine Favor covers it. Range is reduced by 10, resulting to a 30 range without penalty, maximum range of Point-Blank Shot.

Never really got into PF, so that's not an option for my group, personally. Also, the fact that mine comes online at level 3 (and could maybe find a way to get it online at level 2) for the first doubling of damage is nice. Also, the more independent of spells, the more points (for flavor).

Also, the short range on that doesn't bode well for the "aim small miss small" sniper type.

[Vhaidara]

The idea I had was that Warblade's Weapon Aptitude will allow him to treat Whirling Steel Style for Longbow, and so treat it as a monk weapon and gain double damage with a single attack at -2 as a full-round action.

Um... Slight problem. You're confusing the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude, which lets you count as fighter of Warblade level -2 and lets you switch feats specifying weapons (such as Weapon Focus (X) or Improved Critical (X)) with the Aptitude Weapon enhancement, which lets your weapon count as other weapons for the purpose of weapon specific abilities.

[Baroknik]

Ah, thanks, I thought I had something off with the aptitude, but it still works if you buy an Aptitude Longbow, right?

[malonkey1]

Ah, thanks, I thought I had something off with the aptitude, but it still works if you buy an Aptitude Longbow, right?

Yes. Technically, you could also put the enchantment on arrows, but that's just silly. <waits for somebody to figure a way to break the game with an Aptitude Weapon arrow>

[Alent]

Yes. Technically, you could also put the enchantment on arrows, but that's just silly. <waits for somebody to figure a way to break the game with an Aptitude Weapon arrow>

It's just damage, but what about an archery build meshed with a greater mighty wallop cheeze build and a clawlock?

I'm sort of playing with stuff I loosely/barely know here, but: Martial monk 2 into Clawlock, Greater Mighty Wallop + Eldritch Claws + splitting bow + aptitude arrows?

Tons of arrows at collossal monk unarmed strike size + eldritch blast damage?

[Curmudgeon]

I'm sort of playing with stuff I loosely/barely know here, but: Martial monk 2 into Clawlock, Greater Mighty Wallop + Eldritch Claws + splitting bow + aptitude arrows?
Greater Mighty Wallop is only for bludgeoning weapons, which claws and bows are not.

Aptitude lets you use feats as if the weapon were the same type of weapon which you selected for a feat (so if you had Weapon Focus (longsword) and an Aptitude quarterstaff you'd be able to apply the Weapon Focus benefit to the quarterstaff). You don't list any weapon-specific feats, so Aptitude won't do anything for you.

[Grayson01]

Greater Mighty Wallop is only for bludgeoning weapons, which claws and bows are not.

Aptitude lets you use feats as if the weapon were the same type of weapon which you selected for a feat (so if you had Weapon Focus (longsword) and an Aptitude quarterstaff you'd be able to apply the Weapon Focus benefit to the quarterstaff). You don't list any weapon-specific feats, so Aptitude won't do anything for you.

AFBs but I think Blunt Arrows from the Arms and & eqipment guide are Bludg Dam.

[Alent]

Greater Mighty Wallop is only for bludgeoning weapons, which claws and bows are not.

Aptitude lets you use feats as if the weapon were the same type of weapon which you selected for a feat (so if you had Weapon Focus (longsword) and an Aptitude quarterstaff you'd be able to apply the Weapon Focus benefit to the quarterstaff). You don't list any weapon-specific feats, so Aptitude won't do anything for you.

Gotcha, on Aptitude. I misunderstood it to apply to feats or class features, not just feats. Torpedos that, was picturing aptitude letting the arrows be used as monk weapons to deal unarmed attack at ranged.

edit: Wait, adding Stunning Fist would achieve this, wouldn't it?

The exact sequence I'm picturing is Arrow dealing your GMW modified unarmed damage, then additional eldritch claw damage. Not picturing GMW adding directly to the claws. At the very least, Adaptive would allow the claws to apply to the arrow?

another edit: I think I've misremembered that monk weapons could deal unarmed attacks. I Can't seem to find that rule now that I'm looking for it.

Edit #3: And sometimes the answer is "You're an idiot, Norren." I'm thinking of the Ki point skill from Pathfinder that does this.

[arclance]

Greater Mighty Wallop is only for bludgeoning weapons, which claws and bows are not.
Blunt Arrows (Arrow, blunt: Races of the Wild pg.165) deal non-lethal bludgeoning damage.
Good if you don't want to kill your target for some reason, bad if you are facing undead.

They are in Arms and Equipment as well but they have a different range increment in Races of the Wild so it takes presedence as the 3.5 source.
Their range increment is the same as normal arrows in Arms and Equipment and "Half Normal Rounded Up" in Races of the Wild.

[Curmudgeon]

Blunt Arrows (Arrow, blunt: Races of the Wild pg.165) deal non-lethal bludgeoning damage.
There's a rules problem here. If you look at the Weapons table (file:///D:/FRP/Hypertextd20/www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons) (Player's Handbook, page 117) you'll see that the damage type, range, & c. are specified for the weapon, not the ammunition. That's why someone with Enlarge Person cast on them firing their enlarged bow deals the damage specified for that size of bow even though the arrows immediately shrink when loosed.

Now, you can have a specific type of bow which would deviate from the general rule; that's not the case here. There's also nothing in Races of the Wild which addresses this inconsistency.

It really bugs me when rules supplement authors don't pay attention to the basic game rules they're trying to supplement. :smallannoyed:

[malonkey1]

Well, I'd say specific over general here: Generally, an arrow fired from a bow deals the bow's listed damage type. Specifically, this one is always blunt instead.

[arclance]

Well, I'd say specific over general here: Generally, an arrow fired from a bow deals the bow's listed damage type. Specifically, this one is always blunt instead.
I agree with you, though you would need a Blunt arrow knocked for Greater Mighty Wallop to work since it is needed to set the correct damage type for the spell.
If Curmudgeon was right you also would need to have an Adamantine bow not arrows since the bows standard damage type does not overcome DR/Adamantine.

[Snowbluff]

I argued the use of Decisive Strike with Elvencraft Bows, which function as a quarterstaves.

Also, you want to go Monk2/Cloistered Cleric1, I think. Pick up Knowledge Devotion, Law Devotion, and maybe keep your third Domain.

Greater Mighty Wallop is only for bludgeoning weapons, which claws and bows are not.

Eldritch Claws adds your unarmed strike damage to your eldritch blast. Adding Beast Strike gets you twice that benefit.