Making batman (gestalt)

[maniacalmojo]

Girlfriend wants to play batman. So far she is thinking swordsage with the dark template for first level and then progress swordsage and urban ranger until she can qualify for vigilante. What do you guys think?

[eggynack]

It would be odd to enter into a thread seeking batman build advice and not mention the batman wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?104002-3-5e-The-Logic-Ninja-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-Batman). So I won't. Beyond that, I see Batman as something of a factotum, what with all of the intelligence/skill focus, combined with some level of sneakery, and arcane dilettante as a sort of magical utility belt. Something like that anyway. Factotums are cool, is the point.

[ben-zayb]

Human Artificer // Factotum with a splash of Decisive Monk and Chameleon sounds about right; you got crafting gadgets, preps, gamebreaking powers, "non-metahuman" feel, INT focus, athleticism and stealth, disable device and trapfinding (tech savvy).

[malonkey1]

Actually, I was a massive fan of the Arkham games, so I prefer to focus on the Bat's martial prowess. Keep the Factotum side, I say, but on the other side, use a ToB class. Probably Swordsage or Crusader (if DSP's Path of War is available, Stalker would be ideal).

[ben-zayb]

^ Caped Crusader / Paladin / Dark Knight Vindicator? Sounds awesome.

[malonkey1]

^ Caped Crusader / Paladin / Dark Knight Vindicator? Sounds awesome.

Well, whether Batman qualifies for being a Paladin is...debatable (http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/batman-alignment-chart.jpg).

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, I would go Factotum // swordsage with kung-fu genius. If you are higher level, I would consider Factotum 8 / chameleon 10 / PRC X // swordsage 20.

Int to all str and dex skill checks, int to def, int to attack, int to defense AGAIN when needed...

[ben-zayb]

Well, whether Batman qualifies for being a Paladin is...debatable (http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/batman-alignment-chart.jpg).
Needs more than three variants, clearly.

[AvatarVecna]

It really depends on what kind of Batman you're going for. A while back, I was building a Batman-esque character for an epic gestalt game that, unfortunately, never started. You could focus on making the ultimate predator, specializing in sneaking around and taking people out from behind; you could build a batman wizard who's prepared for anything and everything. You could focus on his martial prowess, taking out people with fists and batarangs.

The build I was putting together was getting an intelligent item as a cohort; the idea was that an intelligent suit of armor would represent Oracle, serving as the textbook character, while also being a "utility belt" for batman to make use of. That build focused on throwing batarangs: between crescent knives, dual-wielding, the Master Thrower PrC, the Bloodstorm Blade PrC, and other shenanigans, he could throw three or four enchanted crescent knives at someone and attack them almost 40 times. He also had that Pathfinder Rogue archetype that changed all SA dice with daggers to d8s; throw in the Distant Shot epic feat, and he could hit anyone from anywhere. It would've been epic, especially with a powerful caster backing him up.

Anyway, that's my two coppers.

[malonkey1]

It would've been epic, especially with a Green Lantern backing him up.

Fixed That For You

[AvatarVecna]

Fixed That For You

I was pointing out how, mechanically, Oracle (the character) was going to be built as a caster backing Batman up. And besides, a Lantern of any color could easily be replicated by making a shaper psion.

[Bluydee]

I'ma do Batman, to freshen this thread up;

True Neutral Advanced (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/advanced-creature-cr-1) Dark Human (bought off LA) Unarmed Swordsage 2/Ninja 3/Urban Ranger 2/Avenging Executioner 5/Chameleon 8

32 pointbuy

Str: 24
Dex: 23
Con: 23
Int: 23
Wis: 23
Cha: 23

Feats:
1: Able Learner
1B: Darkstalker
1B: Improved Unarmed Strike
1F: Two Weapon Fighting
1F: Dreadful Wrath
3: Craven
6: Superior Unarmed Strike
7B: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9: Frightful Presence
12: Imperious Command
15: Intimidating Prowess
15B: Shadow Blade
18: Gloom Razor

Wears a Shadowsilk +5 Freedom leather that is also a masterwork tool of hide and move silently enchanted with Greater Shadow, Greater Silent Moves, Bane Blind (human) and carries a belt of hidden pouches with all sorts of gadgets (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29). Has read all tomes. Is extremely stealthy, good at combat, and is the scariest mofo in Gotham.

Here's what I made for a batman build once, and this is only one half, so I bet you could do far more.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

This may just be me, but I am of the mind that Batman's player rolled nothing but 18's for his or her stats.:smalltongue: That being said, unless she's going for an Elseworld's Batman where he has access to either a Green or Yellow Lantern Ring or anything else that pushes him from non-metahuman1 (Ex) and into metahuman or effectively magic powers (Su, SLA, etc.), ToB is the way to go on one side.

As others have said, Factotum is rather wonderful what with the idea being "I can probably do everything, just not all at once!" aspect of the class and its abilities, even if you start getting into out-and-out magic with Arcane Dilettante. Artificer would help with his seemingly endless supply of toys, too. I'm just personally of the mind that Artificer would require probably too much bookkeeping for her (and most people, really) than she would want. Also, without a Dedicated Wright (Alfred?, more so for the Beyond AI than the butler himself) making all your things for you, downtime is worth more than gold.

I'm also more inclined to go Warblade in light armor than asking for something like Kung-Fu Genius to apply to (Unarmed) Swordsage. That being said, ToB is amazing in how it does multiclassing, so both could be possible if the DM let's Kung-Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk apply to the Swordsage's AC bonus. As for the actual maneuvers chosen, I'd focus heavily on Diamond Mind, a sampling of the less teammate-orientated White Raven maneuvers, and possibly also some Iron Heart or Tiger Claw to round him out. Given Batman's runs-in with the League of Assassins, Master of Nine could be a possible prestige class.

My rough outline for a mostly nonmagical Batman would be Factotum 8//Swordsage 2/Warblade 6 to start. Warblade 8 would also work, but if the Int-based AC bonus flies, she will want that sooner rather than later. After (or even during) those first 8 levels, toss on some Master of Nine, more Warblade, possibly taking Bloodstorm Blade on the Factotum-side for AvatarVecna's baterang shenanigans. Rogue or other rogue-like prestige classes could supplement the typical ambushes tactics Batman uses, especially if you don't want to be in Assassin's Stance 24/7.



Note 1: To be fair here, DND's (Ex) already hits metahuman capabilities even with things like a Barbarian's rage and most things past 6th level, so worrying about not being magical is probably something best ignored.

[TandemChelipeds]

In Pathfinder, I'd go with hybrid classes. Bounty Hunter/Investigator. This way, you have the detective skills, the stealth, and the nonlethal takedowns covered.