PoW Discipline Weapon reference tables.

[Greenish]

Path of War is a Tome of Battle-inspired new book for Pathfinder by Dreamscarred Press. See the general thread about it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?308912-PF-DSP-Dreamscarred-Press-announces-ToB-inspired-product-II-The-Rematch).


Each discipline has certain weapon groups (defined by fighter's Weapon Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Weapon-Training-Ex-) class feature) as discipline weapons. Unlike in ToB, discipline weapons have some mechanical functions.

Using a strike with a discipline weapon of the same discipline adds +2 to the save DC of the maneuver. Broken Blade maneuvers may only be used with weapons of that discipline, and add +2 to damage with said weapons. Solar Wind may only be used with weapons of that discipline. Iron Tortoise and Steel Serpent do not specifically call for their discipline weapons to be used, but have other limitations that may de facto result in a preference towards discipline weapons.

I've made the following tables mostly for my own reference, but maybe someone else will also get some mileage from them. The source for most of this is D20 PFSRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) or Path of War itself. Additions and corrections are welcome.


Classes, disciplines, weapon groups, key skills, and traditions:



Discipline
Classes
Weapon groups
Key skill
Tradition


Black Seraph
none
axes, flails, polearms
Intimidate
Black Thorn Knights


Broken Blade
Stalker, Warder, Warlord*
close, monk, natural
Acrobatics
none


Golden Lion
Warder, Warlord
heavy blades, hammers, polearms
Diplomacy
none


Iron Tortoise
Warder, Warlord*
axes, heavy blades, close
Bluff
Defenders of the Realm


Primal Fury
Warder, Warlord
axes, heavy blades, hammers
Survival
Bloody Fangs


Scarlet Throne
Warder*, Warlord
heavy blades, light blades, spears
Sense Motive
Scarlet Sentinels


Silver Crane
none
bows, hammers, spears
Perception
Empyreal Guardians


Solar Wind
Stalker, Warder*, Warlord
bows, crossbows, firearms, thrown
Perception
none


Steel Serpent
Stalker, Warlord*
light blades, close, monk
Heal
none


Thrashing Dragon
Stalker, Warder*, Warlord
close, light blades, double weapons
Acrobatics
none


Veiled Moon
Stalker
light blades, double weapons, spears
Stealth
The Wayward Wanderers



Class name marked with * means an archetype of said class gains said discipline. Archetypes for non-initiator classes not included (at least yet).

Weapons that belong to multiple weapon groups:




Axe
Heavy Blade
Light Blade
Close
Double
Flail
Hammer
Monk
Natural
Polearm
Spear
Thrown


Axe
X

Pata*

Orc Double Axe*




Bardiche

Throwing Axe


Heavy Blade

X
Chakram

Two-Bladed Sword*, Double Walking Stick Katana*


Double Chicken Sabre, Nine Ring Broadsword, Temple Sword*, Seven-branched Sword*

Nodachi

Chakram


Light Blade
Pata*
Chakram
X








Dagger, Starknife, Chakram


Close



X


Mere Club
Brass Knuckles, Cestus, Dan Bong*, Emei Piercer*, Fighting Fan*, Unarmed Strike, Wushu Dart
Unarmed Strike


Wooden Stake, Wushu Dart, Throwing Shield


Double
Orc Double Axe*
Double Walking Stick Katana


X
Dire Flail*

Bo Staff, Quarterstaff, Double-chained Kama*, Kusarigama*


Chain Spear(?)



Flail




Dire Flail*
X

Double-chained Kama*, Kusarigama*, Kyogetsu Shoge*, Nine-section Whip*, Nunchaku*, Sansetsukon, Urumi*




[TD]


Hammer



Mere Club


X




Aklys*, Light Hammer, Club
[TD]


Monk

Double Chicken Sabre, Nine Ring Broadsword, Temple Sword*, Seven-branched Sword*

Brass Knuckles, Cestus, Dan Bong*, Emei Piercer*, Fighting Fan*, Unarmed Strike, Wushu Dart
Bo Staff, Quarterstaff, Double-chained Kama*, Kusarigama*
Double-chained Kama*, Kusarigama*, Kyogetsu Shoge*, Nine-section Whip*, Nunchaku*, Sansetsukon, Urumi*

X
Unarmed Strike
Tiger Fork
Tiger Fork
Dan Bong*, Kyoketsu Shoge*, Lungchuan Tamo, Rope Dart*, Shuriken*, Wushu Dart
[TD]


Natural



Unarmed Strike



Unarmed Strike
X

Unarmed Strike

[TD]


Polearm
Bardiche
Nodachi





Tiger Fork

X


[TD]


Spear







Tiger Fork

Tiger Fork
X
Amentum, Short Spear, Javelin, Harpoon*, Trident
[TD]

[TR]
Thrown
Throwing Axe
Chakram
Chakram, Dagger, Starknife
Throwing Shield


Aklys*, Light Hammer, Club



Amentum, Short Spear, Javelin, Harpoon*, Trident
X


Exotic weapons marked with *.

Bows, crossbows, and firearms groups omitted since they have no overlap with any other group.

Might be missing some weapons, especially monk ones. There's less overlap than you'd think. Especially polearms seem to rarely show up in other categories, even though I'd have expected more than a few of them to overlap with heavy blades, axes, or spears.

Dwarven Urgrosh probably should be in both Axes and Spears, but isn't. Dwarven Longaxe and Longhammer should probably be in both polearms and axes/hammers, respectively. Gnome Hooked Hammer probably should be Hammer, but isn't.

Weapons in more than two categories:

Chakram - heavy blade, light blade, thrown
Double-chained Kama & Kusarigama - double, monk, flail
Unarmed Strike - close, monk, natural
Tiger Fork - monk, polearm, spear
Wushu Dart - close, monk, thrown


Bonus points for showing me how to order the latter table so there's no redundancy.

[Elfkin_King]

I don't know why no one has said anything yet, but this table is a gods-send. O.O Definitely helpful.

Is there any way that you could include the damages for non-core weapons? I always have trouble finding the exact dX for them. >.<

And where did you find what weapons fit in which catagory?

Edit:
And can there be a table with Weapon types on the X-axis and Schools on the Y-axis? That way a person could point to the weapon catagory and trail sideways and say "OK, these are the schools this weapon gets bonuses to for being a Heavy Blade, and THESE are the ones that it gets for being a Double Weapon." IDK if it's just me, but I thought that might be super easy. Maybe even mention a few choice weapons that get the most bonuses from School count per class? such as "Warlord: X weapon: x school, y school, z school/ Y weapon: A school, B School, C school/ Z weapon: A school, Y school, Z school"
Maybe I'm over complicating and asking for too much to be handed to me... lol, if you like, I can put together some of that information for you tonight when I get off work. :) Hell, I could probably use these tables here and d20 together durring my break today to put together a rough estimation. (Keep it mind it wouldn't be based off of Die count, but Bonuses)

[deuxhero]

This information is also very useful for Warpriests who take Martial Versatility (or anyone who takes Martial Versatility, but only Warpriests actually get enough to justify the feat use).

[stack]

I noticed that the earth dealer doesn't appear to show up on the listings on the srd. Obviously it should be a hammer. Anyone else notice this?

[Elfkin_King]

This information is also very useful for Warpriests who take Martial Versatility (or anyone who takes Martial Versatility, but only Warpriests actually get enough to justify the feat use).

Yeah, I thought that too. Originally I had thought to have a monk4/martial adept 16 and focus on thrashing dragon and broken blade, but the Warlord has an archetype that's basically monk flat out. I'm wondering if it might be fair to combine ToB and PoW so there are 6 classes and to houserule the unarmed dmg improvement feats (where they stack so that after 3 feats you have the UAS of a monk of equal level). Is that too much?

[master4sword]

Solar Wind may only be used with weapons of that discipline, except firearms (which can't be used despite being discipline weapons).

In Systems and Use, it explicitly says you can use Solar Wind with firearms, in the line after defining Solar Wind's discipline weapons.


All maneuvers of this discipline require the use of a weapon in these groups or the firearms weapon group.

Which just makes me think that when firearms were added, consistency issues cropped up, such as not listing them in the valid options when describing Solar Wind maneuvers, and calling out "discipline weapons and firearms" when firearms are discipline weapons and shouldn't need the redundant allowance. So while the book tells us both that we can and can't use firearms, I'm leaning "can".

Anyway, this is a wonderfully useful table, so thanks for sharing it with us!

[Greenish]

Is there any way that you could include the damages for non-core weapons? I always have trouble finding the exact dX for them. >.<Try here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons) or here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons).


And where did you find what weapons fit in which catagory?Here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter#TOC-Weapon-Training-Ex-).



And can there be a table with Weapon types on the X-axis and Schools on the Y-axis? That way a person could point to the weapon catagory and trail sideways and say "OK, these are the schools this weapon gets bonuses to for being a Heavy Blade, and THESE are the ones that it gets for being a Double Weapon." IDK if it's just me, but I thought that might be super easy.I'll think about it.


Maybe even mention a few choice weapons that get the most bonuses from School count per class? such as "Warlord: X weapon: x school, y school, z school/ Y weapon: A school, B School, C school/ Z weapon: A school, Y school, Z school"I did something like that for the (now out of date) stalker handbook. If and when the handbooks get brought up to date, I might poke my nose in.


Maybe I'm over complicating and asking for too much to be handed to me... lol, if you like, I can put together some of that information for you tonight when I get off work. :) Hell, I could probably use these tables here and d20 together durring my break today to put together a rough estimation. (Keep it mind it wouldn't be based off of Die count, but Bonuses)If you want to make such tables, I can put them in. They're bound to be useful to someone.


I noticed that the earth dealer doesn't appear to show up on the listings on the srd.More than a few weapons are missing their weapon group. I've noted a few that seem to fit into multiple groups in the first post, but ultimately they'll be "ask your DM" territory.


So while the book tells us both that we can and can't use firearms, I'm leaning "can".I was going by the early print. Errant X has confirmed that Solar Wind is meant to work with firearms. I'll edit that.

[Shinken]

Wow, chakram is a discipline weapon for basically all disciplines.

[jamieth]

Wow, chakram is a discipline weapon for basically all disciplines.

Unfortunately, it's a terrible melee weapon, that with -1 on melee attacks and a non-trivial (at least at low levels) Ref save versus damaging yourself...

[Elfkin_King]

So, I've determined that the Double Walking Stick Katana could effectively fit into all schools, minus Solar Wind, Silver Crane, and Black Seraph. It counts as a Quarter Staff when sheathed. So: Heavy Blade, Double, "Monk". That covers at least a slot for every discipline minus those three I mentioned (two of which you can't get unless you purposefully join their cults and fall under the alignment restrictions.
If you're good aligned then having a backup Bow would be perfect, allowing you to still push into Solar Wind and Silver Crane with ease. If you're evil? Grab a throwing axe or two.

All Classes: Double Walking Stick Katana. (keep one end sheathed and you never have to worry about it lol)

Warder: Double Chicken Sabre, Nine Ring Broadsword, Temple Sword*, Seven-branched Sword*. Temple Sword is going to be my top pick here because of it's spread: 1d8, 19-20/x2 and it's a TRIP weapon. Some of the other ones are have the Disarm feature, so if you prefer that, then go with the Seven Branched Sword. It's d10 x3crit.

Warlord: Pick your favorite heavy blade. Grab a bow. Maybe a back up Dagger, if you're taking Steal Serpent. If not, then the DWSK, or the Two-bladed Sword are perfect.

Stalker: Get yourself a pair of good daggers and your set.

[Psyren]

Wow, chakram is a discipline weapon for basically all disciplines.

Master of Nine Eleven, awaaaay!

[Prime32]

The bowstaff (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bowstaff) spell might be worth mentioning, for double/monk/bows or hammers/thrown/bows. You should be able to put it in a continuous magic item for 8,000gp.

Then there's bayonets (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/bayonet), which add a firearm or crossbow to the Close and Light Blades categories.

[Greenish]

So, I've determined that the Double Walking Stick Katana could effectively fit into all schools, minus Solar Wind, Silver Crane, and Black Seraph. It counts as a Quarter Staff when sheathed. So: Heavy Blade, Double, "Monk".Huh, not bad.


Warder: Double Chicken Sabre, Nine Ring Broadsword, Temple Sword*, Seven-branched Sword*. Temple Sword is going to be my top pick here because of it's spread: 1d8, 19-20/x2 and it's a TRIP weapon. Some of the other ones are have the Disarm feature, so if you prefer that, then go with the Seven Branched Sword. It's d10 x3crit.Excepting a few archetypes, warden will probably run around with sword'n'board, so shield slams take care of Close weapons. Add in hammer or heavy blade and you're set.


Warlord: Pick your favorite heavy blade. Grab a bow.Pretty much. If going for Black Seraph or the upcoming Piercing Lance, nodachi (heavy blade/polearm) is hard to beat.

If going for Steelfist Commando without Finesse, the already mentioned Temple Sword is pretty choice piece of weaponry, you don't even need EWP.

Stalker: Get yourself a pair of good daggers and your set.Well, starknives (better range) or kukris (critfishing), probably. Butterfly Sword (oops, it's missing from the list) is light blade and monk weapon, so if you're not throwing stuff around, that's pretty nice.


And of course, longbows and armour spikes/spiked gauntlets for everyone.


[Edit]:
The bowstaff (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bowstaff) spell might be worth mentioning, for double/monk/bows or hammers/thrown/bows. You should be able to put it in a continuous magic item for 8,000gp.3.5 had elvencraft bows do almost the same for 300 gp. Well, the enhancements working is nice.


Then there's bayonets (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/bayonet), which add a firearm or crossbow to the Close and Light Blades categories.I don't see much advantage using a bayonet over drawing a new weapon, though.

[Elfkin_King]

[Edit]: 3.5 had elvencraft bows do almost the same for 300 gp. Well, the enhancements working is nice.

This just made me think of a new magic item: A Double Walking Stick Katana that, when sheathed and STRUNG become a longbow with a +2 or +3 Str mod. Realistically, I know it's kind of dumb and that would mean that the blades and the weapon itself suck, but it's MAGIC. We can suspend reality for a bit, right?

"When strung it functions similar to the Bowstaff spell, but in reverse, causing the weapon to become slightly more supple, but retains enough strength to require more strength than average to draw." or something like that. I've never played an archer, so I'm not overtly familiar with all the exact wordings for specific bow stuff. or

Buuuuuut, maybe having a single item like that which could, effectively, function for damn near everything is a bit broke... even with needing a 14 or 16 in Str to wield as a bow.

As a side note: I noticed this morning that the description for the PDF boasts "13 martial disciplines" but there's only 11. Was that a typo or something that was changed later, or should there have really been 13?

[Greenish]

This just made me think of a new magic item: A Double Walking Stick Katana that, when sheathed and STRUNG become a longbow with a +2 or +3 Str mod. Realistically, I know it's kind of dumb and that would mean that the blades and the weapon itself suck, but it's MAGIC. We can suspend reality for a bit, right?I'd settle for good ol' swordbows.


As a side note: I noticed this morning that the description for the PDF boasts "13 martial disciplines" but there's only 11. Was that a typo or something that was changed later, or should there have really been 13?There are 13 if you count the illusion discipline and the ninja discipline. (The illusion discipline looks like something else, and you can't find the ninja discipline.)

[Elfkin_King]

There are 13 if you count the illusion discipline and the ninja discipline. (The illusion discipline looks like something else, and you can't find the ninja discipline.)

Where are these at? O.O

and while I'm thinking about it: What's the damage type(s) for the Double Walking Stick Katana? On the table that I have on an App on my phone it says Blunt, but I think that means if you're using it as a Quarterstaff... and, after reading the description, I'm a little confused. Is it basically an Eastern Double Sword with wooden sheaths, or is it a central casing with two Wakizashi's that do damage as Wakizashi's but (for the purpose of feats and, in this case, martial schools) function as a double weapon? >.< I'm so confused.

EDIT: I just now saw the white text from the quote.... xD Almost 24 hours later.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Where are these at? O.O

I believe he was being facetious about those last two. From earlier in the thread, it sounds like they are still in development.

[Novawurmson]

Looks stupendous! Mind if I add it to my guide to the guides?

[Elfkin_King]

I believe he was being facetious about those last two. From earlier in the thread, it sounds like they are still in development.

And thus I'm a victim of people being a wise ass over the internet again.... wait, I probably would have had that go over my head in RL too. xD Touche, though.


Looks stupendous! Mind if I add it to my guide to the guides?
Can you send me a link to that? lol

[Novawurmson]

It is in my signature, but here it is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233029)!

[aethel27]

you you forgot all the dwarven weapons...... maulaxe thrown hammer and thrown axe and axe and hammer group :)

[Lord_Gareth]

And thus I'm a victim of people being a wise ass over the internet again.... wait, I probably would have had that go over my head in RL too. xD Touche, though.

Oh no, my friend. The servants of sorrow are quite real (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HCtvRArIRPjcClMf5KVJrDBrkV_gBoaVFuvwA4CmCew/edit?usp=sharing), and their mastery of the Shattered Mirror discipline contains quite a few distortions of perception...and reality.

[Greenish]

Looks stupendous! Mind if I add it to my guide to the guides?Sure, feel free.


you you forgot all the dwarven weapons...... maulaxe thrown hammer and thrown axe and axe and hammer group :)I was going by the weapon groups in Weapon Training, which neglects most dwarven weapons (alongside a few others).

Maulaxe does look like it'd fit into both axes and hammers, but absent actual mention to that effect, who knows. The one dwarven weapon that made it to the list, dwarven urgrosh, is apparently neither axe nor spear, after all.

[PsyBomb]

The heavy Blade category is missing from the second chart, which is important because it is in four disciplines.

[Greenish]

The heavy Blade category is missing from the second chart, which is important because it is in four disciplines.I don't see it. I mean, I see it. Second after Axes, both in rows and columns.

[PsyBomb]

I'm blind, disregard. I thought it was alphabetical by the H and missed it

[Greenish]

I'm blind, disregard. I thought it was alphabetical by the H and missed itHaha alphabetical, what sort of an organized person do you take me for?


(It's "Blades, Heavy".)