Potion Injector

[Captain Kablam]

In a campaign I'm running, I got an npc that does the Bane (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111153770/3945768-6432350152-32509.jpg) thing by drinking potions (specifically: Mage Armor, Bull's Strength, and Enlarge Person). Playing up the Bane angle, I thought of giving him a device that injects the potions into him, all at once. The technological setting is mid-late 1800s, so rubber tubing and fuel injecting are not necessarily out of the question.However, I realize that such a device has major gamebreaking potential if not handled correctly should it fall into player hands.

I need to know if there is a precedent for such a device, and if not, what should be done to make it work without breaking the game, or being so nerfed that it's not worth the effort, and of course what to price such an item at.

Insofar what I had in mind is that it's a device constructed of leather straps and padding, rubber hand pumps and tubing, glass tubes, and metal needles and casings, with different models designed to be affixed to the neck, shoulder, or bicep.

Activating the device, pressing the pump, is a move action. I feel 3 potions is a good max to have and a 20 heal check to properly affix the device, with a full round action per potion to switch out the empty vials, cutting this time down with Rapid Reload. Further more, wearing the device imposes a penalty to max hp based how many potions the injector has affixed (-1 for 1, so on), because of the needles.

Moving past that, I think there should be a percent chance that the potions could fail, on a sliding scale, so that unless someone is particularly unlucky they won't lose all three, and explain it away by saying the magics could interrupt and cancel out each other. I think 15% should do, 1-15, all three are lost, 16-30 two, 31-45 one, the user rolling at the time of injection. As for determining which spells are lost, I feel it would be fair to say that higher level, or stronger spells would be the last to go. E.G.: You got a Cure Light(Clr1), Cure Moderate(Clr2), and a Cure Serious (Clr3) wounds potions all loaded up, roll a 42, you lose the Cure Light, 21, light and moderate. Spells of the same level would roll a 1d2 or a 1d3 (depending on whether or not two or all three are the same level) to determine which are lost.

On top of that, having three potions go to war inside someone can be a bit disorienting, so I think a partial Fort save based on the combined spell level is not out of order. Specifically, pass the fort, you are sickened for 1 round, fail, sickened for 1d4+1 rounds.

As for firing off three spells at once, that can also be a bit much to handle, and I think the following reflects that. Spell DCs are -2 per each additional potion (-2 for two potions, -4 for three). Only a single touch spell can be charged in all of this, and concentration spells still need focus. So while you can't have three Vampiric Touch spells loaded up at once, you can fling a fireball, maintain a summoned swarm, and have Vampiric Touch charged. And again that's if you pass your percent roll.

So with all that done, what do you guys think? What should be priced at (particularly for the two potion and three potion variety), is it fair, and if it's broken are there ways to fix it?

[Dalebert]

There used to be special rules about potions interacting if you drank another while a previous was still in effect, but I think that was 2E and has been done away with since potions are now just spells in a bottle and people can have multiple spells on them without problem. Pretty sure but not 100%. Can someone confirm?

[Darrin]

I need to know if there is a precedent for such a device, and if not, what should be done to make it work without breaking the game, or being so nerfed that it's not worth the effort, and of course what to price such an item at.


The closest to a precedent would probably be the Ready-Drink Helm from Dragon Magazine #294. But that was in an April Fool's issue, and there were some drawbacks (if you're knocked prone, 25% chance a potion could get spilled). If you're looking for injections, Bloodspikes from Magic of Eberron can inject something into your bloodstream, and any time within the next hour you can activate them to get a special effect. These are reputedly alchemical items, but no craft DCs are given.

Delay Potion feat (Complete Arcane) can be used to delay the effect of a potion.


There used to be special rules about potions interacting if you drank another while a previous was still in effect, but I think that was 2E and has been done away with since potions are now just spells in a bottle and people can have multiple spells on them without problem. Pretty sure but not 100%. Can someone confirm?

The Potion Miscibility Table (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b) was updated to 3.5.

[Spore]

Still potions are a comparatively weak feature that uses up money so I guess your ideas are fine. Early on 50 GP for a CL 1 buff is decent yet expensive. Later on, even a move action for a mediocre buff is nice at best.

[Psyren]

The Potion Miscibility Table (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b) was updated to 3.5.

That's an April Fools' article though. Not exactly assumed rules in every campaign.

[Drackstin]

I believe there are potion darts and potion blatter in drow of the underdark that do what your asking, one is a throwing weapon that lets you inject a potion into someone, the other is a bag you keep under your arm and you squeeze down to inject the potion into yourself. I'm pretty sure there is no limit to the bags you can have attached to yourself also.

[Captain Kablam]

I believe there are potion darts and potion blatter in drow of the underdark that do what your asking, one is a throwing weapon that lets you inject a potion into someone, the other is a bag you keep under your arm and you squeeze down to inject the potion into yourself. I'm pretty sure there is no limit to the bags you can have attached to yourself also.

Those are nice, don't get me wrong, but I feel the big issue being missed is that in a single turn, three spells are being casted at the same time, with the user's body being the melting pot for it. To that end, does my set up, adequately address this?


Delay Potion feat (Complete Arcane) can be used to delay the effect of a potion.

The Potion Miscibility Table (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20060401b) was updated to 3.5.

Delay Potion is a nice feat, but feats aren't items. Definitely something I'm keeping my eye on. Moving along, I took a gander at the Miscibility table, and I thought about harsher penalties in the percent scale, however if things roll bad, they're already looking at a pretty substantial investment loss, it's that kind of kick 'em while their down mentality that makes sure such items never see use by anyone who's not a complete ignoramus. I want there to be risk, but not unreasonable risk.

Moving along. I'm beginning to think that there is no true precedent to follow, so I'll go forward with that mindset. As for pricing such an item, I think 100 for the single injector (why would anyone use this?), 300 for the double injector, 1,000 for the triple would be fair. What are you guys thoughts?

[Drackstin]

It doesn't matter how many spells get cast on you at the same time, you get all the buffs as normal, since any set turn is actually the same 6 sec in time, so if you have 3 please casting spells on you in one turn it's kind of the same thing, also for price, I would say to get the price take the price of the potion bladder and x it by 4, since it would be 3 injectiono at once, 1 standard price and the 2nd and 3rd being 1.5 cost for being added to it. Just like a magic item.

[Captain Kablam]

It doesn't matter how many spells get cast on you at the same time, you get all the buffs as normal, since any set turn is actually the same 6 sec in time, so if you have 3 please casting spells on you in one turn it's kind of the same thing, also for price, I would say to get the price take the price of the potion bladder and x it by 4, since it would be 3 injectiono at once, 1 standard price and the 2nd and 3rd being 1.5 cost for being added to it. Just like a magic item.

Then you must have pretty generous team mates to cast so many spells on on you in the same round (that or mine are real bastards), not to mention potions come in more than just buffs and heals, like I had mentioned before, you can lay in more damage or have major variety, depending on which potions are picked. Moving along, I think you're right on the pricing. SO if I've done the math right, with the Potion bladder being 25, that's 100 for the single, 250 for the double, 625 for the triple.

[Drackstin]

Lol it was just an example, but it's works the same way, and the cool thing is you can make a potion out of just about anything, it would suck if someone stoped time and swapped his buffs for potions of fire ball max level lol.

[Captain Kablam]

Lol it was just an example, but it's works the same way, and the cool thing is you can make a potion out of just about anything, it would suck if someone stoped time and swapped his buffs for potions of fire ball max level lol.

Hence the reason I was so worried about the mechanics of it being broken. With no penalty, it gives a single player a lot of power, for little cost. With a 45% chance of losing a single potion, it becomes a betting game, with greater reward than playing it safe, without making the act of safe play irrelevant. And that I like.

[Rainbaw]

Then you must have pretty generous team mates to cast so many spells on on you in the same round (that or mine are real bastards), not to mention potions come in more than just buffs and heals, like I had mentioned before, you can lay in more damage or have major variety, depending on which potions are picked. Moving along, I think you're right on the pricing. SO if I've done the math right, with the Potion bladder being 25, that's 100 for the single, 250 for the double, 625 for the triple.

Our meat shield usually has 3-4 buffs on him and our ranger who uses a bow has maybe 5-6. We have 3 arcane casters and one divine caster >_> And everyone is really happy to throw buff spells around to let the fighter and ranger just deal with the minor treaths and saving big dmg spells for big enemys.

[daremetoidareyo]

Hence the reason I was so worried about the mechanics of it being broken. With no penalty, it gives a single player a lot of power, for little cost. With a 45% chance of losing a single potion, it becomes a betting game, with greater reward than playing it safe, without making the act of safe play irrelevant. And that I like.

With the exception of Enlarge, your chosen buffs seem like they do the same thing as a barbarians rage. So why not just make the character fatigued after the three potions' duration ends? And have the apparatus itself impair movement a bit if they are injected (-1 dex and/or-5 movement rate) Are these injected or vaporized and inhaled?

The way this really gets abused is when certain spells get put into potions in creative ways: (put the injector on a shark: potions of Invisibility, flight, airbreating) Invisible flying sharks! Put it on a tiny viper: (truestrike, venomfire, enlarge) Put it on the paladins mount: (charge of the triceratops, allegro, bull's strength)

But, I like your idea a lot. So I would go with the heal check to hook it up. Higher DCs to non-demi-humans.

Assuming you can find blackguard, rangers, and paladins that brew potions for some of these:
Blur, mirror image, flight
bite of the werewolf, burning rage, protection from fire
fearsome grapple/mountain stance, babau slime, hamatula barbs
fangs of the vampire king, tongue serpents, magic fang
reduce, fell the greatest foe, bulls strength
claws of darkness, bladeweave, demonhide
protection from good, zeal, opportune dodge,
skin of the cactus, scintillating scales, bulls strength