5E: Summoner build help Expedition Legal

[Xaragos]

I was thinking of making a summoner type of character using the core free pdfs for Expedition adventures. Any thoughts on the build, race, use of standard array vs alternate, etc. On a general note, is a summoning class viable in 5E or am I spinning my wheels? Brand new to this sytems so still trying to get my feet wet.

Thanks ahead of time.

[Yorrin]

Two things to note:

1. None of the Summoning spells are available in the Basic PDF

2. Most of them aren't that great in this edition anyway (imo)


That being said you can still roll a minion-mancer, but it would have to be a necro-wizard, and even then you dont have most of the good tools for that in the Basic PDF. So if you're set on the idea of a summoner you'll need to spring for a PHB if you want any semblance of effectiveness.

[Inevitability]

One great summoning spell is Conjure Woodland Beings. 4 pixies for the low, low prize of a single spell slot? Yes please.

[Giant2005]

Conjure Animals is pretty good too - 8 Giant Badgers with a total of 16 attacks for a level 3 spell slot is some pretty good economy.

[Yorrin]

Conjure Animals is pretty good too - 8 Giant Badgers with a total of 16 attacks for a level 3 spell slot is some pretty good economy.

Until you compare the badger's +3 to hit and 1d6+1 dmg with the party's +7 or +8 to hit with 1d6+4-5 (or more) at that point. Really the badgers become a field of meat. This only gets worse as you climb in level, since the beasts are capped at CR2 even at the highest levels, meaning that at best you'll be pulling, what, giant elk? Which is about as good as a 5th level melee character with no special abilities...

[hymer]

at best you'll be pulling, what, giant elk?

May I suggest you bring the polar bear instead? The giant elk is best at charging or trampling, but even then it doesn't outperform the bear. Bearington Bear also hits better and deals reliable damage whether toe-to-toe or moving about.
At level 5, summoning a polar bear to do the heavy lifting for you is a pretty good way to spend your concentration. Later, you'll have to upgrade to more powerful summoning, of course. You better have Warcaster before you start summoning elementals, though.

[Xaragos]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Do you recommend it be a wizard or sorcerer? Or perhaps is a cleric better for the undead type summons?

[Yorrin]

Conjure Animals= Druid/Ranger
Conjure Celestial= Cleric
Conjure Elemental= Druid/Wizard
Conjure Fey= Druid/Warlock
Conjure Minor Elementals= Druid/Wizard
Conjure Woodland Beings= Druid/Ranger
Create Undead= Cleric/Warlock/Wizard
Planar Ally= Cleric
Planar Binding= Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizard

So sorcerers don't get summoning at all. Past that, depends on what you want to summon. Druids and Wizards are the winners in most cases, though Cleric could be used as well in a non-traditional way. A properly built Warlock actually makes a halfway decent summoner, too. Ranger just doesn't have the spell slots to dedicate to it, despite having a couple of them.

[Giant2005]

Until you compare the badger's +3 to hit and 1d6+1 dmg with the party's +7 or +8 to hit with 1d6+4-5 (or more) at that point. Really the badgers become a field of meat. This only gets worse as you climb in level, since the beasts are capped at CR2 even at the highest levels, meaning that at best you'll be pulling, what, giant elk? Which is about as good as a 5th level melee character with no special abilities...

Those Giant Badgers will tear apart a horde of Kobolds much faster than that Fighter could ever hope to and even against targets in that sweet spot where their AC is too high for a Badger to reliably hit but not too high for a fighter to reliably hit, they still due reliable damage by virtue of sheer numbers. If you have Faerie Fire active or something else that gives advantage, they are making 32 attack rolls and statistically at least one of them should nail a critical and the odds have it that a second one will too. Those criticals would either do an average of 8 damage or an average of 11 damage depending on which attack landed. Also if you are fighting enemies that only inflict single target damage, those 8 Badgers will absorb way more hits than a Fighter and act as a better meatshield (unless the Fighter has extraordinary AC).
The Badgers are pretty much better than a level 7 Fighter in all occasions unless there is AOE damage involved or the enemies are in a very narrow niche that emphasizes the Fighter's abilities perfectly.

[hymer]

The Badgers are pretty much better than a level 7 Fighter in all occasions unless there is AOE damage involved or the enemies are in a very narrow niche that emphasizes the Fighter's abilities perfectly.

There's also fighting space to consider. In most dungeons, 8 badgers are going to have a tough time attacking, getting in the way of each other and the party. And then there's the consideration of the party becoming camp followers to a badger army. The badgers could easily come to take up more time than the rest of the party in fights.

[Xaragos]

Conjure Animals= Druid/Ranger
Conjure Celestial= Cleric
Conjure Elemental= Druid/Wizard
Conjure Fey= Druid/Warlock
Conjure Minor Elementals= Druid/Wizard
Conjure Woodland Beings= Druid/Ranger
Create Undead= Cleric/Warlock/Wizard
Planar Ally= Cleric
Planar Binding= Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizard

So sorcerers don't get summoning at all. Past that, depends on what you want to summon. Druids and Wizards are the winners in most cases, though Cleric could be used as well in a non-traditional way. A properly built Warlock actually makes a halfway decent summoner, too. Ranger just doesn't have the spell slots to dedicate to it, despite having a couple of them.

Excellent summary. I think I will go with Druid. Any recommendations on builds for a druid?

[hymer]

Excellent summary. I think I will go with Druid. Any recommendations on builds for a druid?

I wrote a little druid guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370229-Druid-Guide-amp-Discussion) (I'm still contemplating and collating, but it's perfectly readable and useful now), which should get you going.