[3.5] The Commoner Swordmaster

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

We've all read the fantasy trope about the farm boy who is secretly heir to some great legacy and winds up becoming lost King of such-and-such. Often involves an ancestral sword of some kind, and saving the known world from a demon/God/wizard etc.

Anyway, got me thinking. As a build challenge, how would you build a commoner with the delusion that he is the long lost saviour of the universe, and swordmaster extraordinaire? And how effective can you actually make him at his role?

Build challenge guidelines:


Only class levels allowed are commoner. No multiclassing, no PrCs, no Paragon class.
Race must be Human. No templates or subraces please. This includes pseudo-templates like Dragonborn.
No spellcasting, even through feats. His "power" must come only through ability with a blade (ideally a longsword or bastard sword). For this purpose, spellcasting includes psionics, binding, invocations etc. Please don't use these (or anything similar that I've forgotten) in the build.
The sword may be masterwork, but not magical. He can pay to have it enchanted as he levels up and earns cash.
The "hero" should be good aligned, so no bonus vile feats for worshipping an Elder Evil, or Faustian pacts. Traits and flaws are fine, so long as they are NOT Chicken Infested. :smallamused:

tl:dr? How good a swordsman can you make a Human Commoner 20? I have a build in mind, and might post it after a few others have shown theirs. :smallwink:

Cheers - T

25 point buy (or Elite Array) is the preferred method for ability scores, but 32 point buy is also acceptable.
Standard PC WBL is assumed. If you want to make it more of a challenge for yourselves, trying doing it with NPC gear by level value instead! :smalltongue:
Cohorts and minions are discouraged, but not outright banned. If the minion is the primary (or sole) source of prowess (or is, in fact, more powerful than our "hero"), it pretty much defeats the purpose of the challenge.
A sword is generally the iconic weapon of this archetype, but if you can make another weapon work in context, go for it.

[Gwendol]

Point buy for abilities?

[Seppo87]

Iaijutsu focus is the way to go.
There are so many ways to make opponents flat-footed

add in assassin's stance and staggering strike. this guy is dangerous.

[ranagrande]

Ancestral Relic and nine Luck feats.

[Thurbane]

Point buy for abilities?
Let's assume 25 point buy (or the Elite array). We don't want him to be too big for his britches now, do we? :smallbiggrin:

32 point buy is fine if you want to make him truly heroic. :smallwink:

[WrathMage]

Interested to see how this goes.... :smallbiggrin:

[Incorrect]

The valiant hero will need a comic relief sidekick.
A bard cohort obtained through Leadership would be fitting; he would crack jokes, inspire greatness, and of cause die horribly shortly before the final confrontation.

[Nightraiderx]

Commoner with devotion feats:
1 Power Attack
H Travel Devotion
3 Law Devotion
6 Protection Devotion
9 Animal Devotion
12 Ancestral Relic
15 Law Devotion
18 Travel Devotion

It's probably not going to be as strong as iaijutsu master but still a different twist on a swordsman.

[Gwendol]

My second question is: the weapon, does it have to be a sword?

I'm imagining a Don Quixote like character, possibly with Leadership and a Bard cohort.

[ILM]

Wait, does he have to actually be good at this, or just have the delusion of being a swordsmaster and saviour?

Also, do we go with standard WBL?

[Thurbane]

The valiant hero will need a comic relief sidekick.
A bard cohort obtained through Leadership would be fitting; he would crack jokes, inspire greatness, and of cause die horribly shortly before the final confrontation.

I like the way you think, but heavy reliance on a cohort or similar would be a little outside of the intent of this build.

My second question is: the weapon, does it have to be a sword?

I'm imagining a Don Quixote like character, possibly with Leadership and a Bard cohort.

Sword would be iconic. I suppose a lancer is acceptable, but it's generally a lot easier to optimize a lance/mounted build than a sword.

Wait, does he have to actually be good at this, or just have the delusion of being a swordsmaster and saviour?

Also, do we go with standard WBL?
The better he can actually be to backup his delusion, the better.

Yep, assume standard WBL for a PC.

[supersonic29]

Ancestral Relic and nine Luck feats.

I like you.


Edit: Okay, gonna run with this, I'm going to make a trip-douchebag who wields a chain to portray that this isn't even a commoner who bought a sword, but a commoner who literally got a chain off the wall, maybe put some crude spurs on it, and started swinging at things.

Not super original, but I guess I'll see how trip-monkey stuff works within the commoner-only walls.

[ILM]

How about Ancestral Relic, 9 Martial feats and a Skillful weapon, blowing all his WBL on the List of Necessary Items, plus basically all save boosters he can stack?

[Thurbane]

How about Ancestral Relic, 9 Martial feats and a Skillful weapon, blowing all his WBL on the List of Necessary Items, plus basically all save boosters he can stack?

Sounds like a solid place to start. Skillful weapon is an excellent idea for a "swordsman" with a Wizard's BAB.

[Palanan]

So, Thurbane, will you be posting your build? You mentioned you had one in mind.

[Thurbane]

So, Thurbane, will you be posting your build? You mentioned you had one in mind.

I will indeed - unfortunately this weekend (Australian time) is crazy for me with commitments. I will try to get it on here ASAP, but might be a day or two

Don't get your hopes up too high, though, I'm not in the top tier of optimizers. :smalltongue:

[Jeff the Green]

Hmm. Ancestral Relic doesn't give us an enormous benefit since we've got WBL, but Item Familiar... We'll definitely want Iaijutsu Focus, but we'll also want Intimidate and UMD. Also Bluff, Spellcraft, and Decipher Script for synergy. Stat priority is Strength>Con=Cha>Dex>Int=Wis.

I'm going to say he thinks he's a scion of the line of Sparhawk from the Elenium, and thus his favored weapon is a longspear rather than a sword, but we are going to "curse" it as the -2 sword

Human: Able Learner
Flaw: Nymph's Kiss
Flaw: Imperious Command
1st: Apprentice: Soldier (becomes Mentor)
3rd: Item Familiar
6th: Power Attack
9th: Martial Study (Cloak of Deception)
12th: Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance)
15th: Craven
18th: Law Devotion

Starting off he relies on Intimidate, which he has a pretty good bonus on (good Cha, +4/6 from feats, class skill, Item Familiar), and those cases when he can get in Iaijutsu. Starting at 8th he gets a Skillful weapon and can make use of PA and iteratives. Cloak of Deception lets him get in an attack dealing 1d8 + 1.5*Str + 2d6 + level damage in a minimum of 1/encounter, and he should be able to use wands to get more in.

[Gwendol]

Jeff, I've been thinking along those lines (Ability-wise) and the use of Dreadful Wrath. However, the poor commoner isn't proficient with either sword nor armor. Have you considered that as well?

[Jeff the Green]

Jeff, I've been thinking along those lines (Ability-wise) and the use of Dreadful Wrath. However, the poor commoner isn't proficient with either sword nor armor. Have you considered that as well?

That's why I went with longspear. :smallwink:

Armor's easily solved with mithral hellforged breastplate (5200 GP); with no ACP there isn't actually a downside to nonproficiency. Early on you can wear leather (10 GP), masterwork studded leather (175 GP), or masterwork hellforged chain shirt (1250 GP). It's not great, but we should be able to afford a 12 or 14 in Dexterity. Early on when our attack bonus will suck anyway, we can also go with a MW buckler.

[Azoth]

Surprised the devotion commoner didn't spend its flaws on god touched and divine channeler. Give yourself a TU pool you can boost with items and qualifies you for Extra Turning.

[Segev]

If we're going with Longspear, at low level his "brave companions" are his animal friends, raised on his farm and now traveling with him. Handle Animal lets him train them for combat, and now they can serve as a front-line meat shield while he uses his Longspear over their heads. They Aid Another his attack rolls.

[Kevingway]

Commoner with Wild Talent (for psionic focus) and Diamond Mind maneuvers (particularly Insightful Strike). I like cheating and going Tenebrous Apostate combined with Psionic Meditation and Travel Devotion to be able to perform full actions in the same rounds as recovering maneuvers through... uh, whatever feat allows you to do that by expending psionic focus.

It's fun. Give it a try. Not quite within the flavor of the sword commoner, but this build is one that I like to utilize with underpowered classes that I eventually feed into a prestige class. Commoners are nice because of access to Survivor as soon as CL 2, and prestige classes give full initiator progression as opposed to 1/2 from base classes.

Edit: Requires a Binder dip, though.

Edit 2: Diamond Mind, not Devoted Mind. I'm an idiot.

[Inevitability]

Hm... When you say 'no spellcasting', do you mean 'no spellcasting at all' or can cohorts, hired spellcasters and followers still buff/cast spells on our brave commoner?

[Flickerdart]

Commoner with devotion feats:
1 Power Attack
H Travel Devotion
3 Law Devotion
6 Protection Devotion
9 Animal Devotion
12 Ancestral Relic
15 Law Devotion
18 Travel Devotion

It's probably not going to be as strong as iaijutsu master but still a different twist on a swordsman.
IIRC there is a limit on the number of devotion feats you can have (one or two, clerics get around it by trading in domains though).

[Aegis013]

IIRC there is a limit on the number of devotion feats you can have (one or two, clerics get around it by trading in domains though).

That's correct, and they have to thematically fit together. Whatever that may mean. (Complete Champion pg. 52 underneath "Domain Feats")
The line in question specifically says
"Furthermore, you can never have more than two domain feats (except as specified in Clerics and Domain Feats, below)."

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
Don't get your hopes up too high, though, I'm not in the top tier of optimizers.

Neither am I, so no worries. :smallsmile:



Speaking of which, is there a clever op-fu reason why Nightraiderx included both Travel and Law Devotion twice?

[dysprosium]

Speaking of which, is there a clever op-fu reason why Nightraiderx included both Travel and Law Devotion twice?

If you take a devotion feat more than once you get to use its listed ability once more per day.

Otherwise you can use turn undead to fuel them.

[Kevingway]

It would be interesting to bond with a weapon as a commoner using the PHBII rules.

[Azoth]

Flaw: God Touched
Flaw: Divine Channeller
Human: Law Devotion
1st: Travel Devotion
3rd: Power Attack
6th: Leap of the Heavens
9th: Martial Study (sudden leap)
12th: Leap Attack
15th: Martial Stance (Leaping Dragon Stance)
18th: open


Classic image of your boy starting a charge and then flying at the enemy sword raised high to deliver that one massive blow.

God Touched and Divine Channeler give him a TU pool to enhance further with reliqary holy symbol and nightstick using WBL. You could also shift the feats down one to give him an Extra Turning at level 1 so he can naturally have 5TU uses and can activate his devotion feats multiple times per day.

[Nightraiderx]

IIRC there is a limit on the number of devotion feats you can have (one or two, clerics get around it by trading in domains though).

Never knew that restriction.. and also 5 TU are not going to help much with your build it takes 2 to 3 uses of turn undead to reactivating them.