Up the wall: Who stands to benefit most from the impossible?

[Xuldarinar]

Looking through bloodlines, something occurred to me. While all the bloodlines have their own treats, the impossible bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/impossible-sorcerer) has a specific gift I'd like to discuss here today.


Now, given the existence of the eldritch heritage line of feats, at 17th level anyone with a high enough charisma score can have this:

Relativity (Su): At 15th level, you can traverse vertical surfaces as easily as you walk on the ground. When climbing, you move at your normal land speed and take none of the penalties associated with climbing. The surface must be able to support your weight, and difficult terrain affects your speed as normal. You are also immune to reverse gravity and similar effects.


Really, I have two questions here: What all can you do with this, and what classes could most benefit from what this ability provides?

To my reading, an individual can basically consider vertical surfaces no different from horizontal ones. I wish this extended to ceilings, but without any preparation before hand or expending any energy on a spell or similar ability, being able to take a casual stroll up the side of a building and walk in through a window at the top story while your friends have to fight their way through everything else to be an incredible ability. Wish it were a lower level one, but such is life.

[Kudaku]

I think it's a cool ability, but it reminds me of the Tongue of Sun And Moon - by the time you get it, the game has assumed you have this ability for ages.

[Lightlawbliss]

It would be great if you didn't have flight so far in advance. By lvl 15, people are flying all day.

[Da'Shain]

It's a fun ability. Never played with that particular version, but an Elocater (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/elocater#TOC-Personal-Gravity-Su-) gets essentially the same thing at first level. In lower level games where flight is more expensive and lasts a shorter period (or is sometimes simply not available, depending on items/party composition), it opens up a myriad of possibilities. I enjoy it best on sneaky, skillful characters; I played a Cryptic/Elocater whose favorite trick was sneaking in, showing himself to guards, sounding an alarm, and then lying flat above doorframes while most of the guards rushed past looking for him. It also keeps you out of harm's way while you're firing off spells/ranged attacks inside larger rooms or next to cliffs.

At level 15 it's pretty old hat, though; overland flight pretty much does everything it does and then some. If you have a Robe of Arcane Heritage you can get it at 11th level instead, but it's still a bit late and also not especially useful for most sorcerers. It's flavorful but not much else.

[Xuldarinar]

It's a fun ability. Never played with that particular version, but an Elocater (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/elocater#TOC-Personal-Gravity-Su-) gets essentially the same thing at first level. In lower level games where flight is more expensive and lasts a shorter period (or is sometimes simply not available, depending on items/party composition), it opens up a myriad of possibilities. I enjoy it best on sneaky, skillful characters; I played a Cryptic/Elocater whose favorite trick was sneaking in, showing himself to guards, sounding an alarm, and then lying flat above doorframes while most of the guards rushed past looking for him. It also keeps you out of harm's way while you're firing off spells/ranged attacks inside larger rooms or next to cliffs.

At level 15 it's pretty old hat, though; overland flight pretty much does everything it does and then some. If you have a Robe of Arcane Heritage you can get it at 11th level instead, but it's still a bit late and also not especially useful for most sorcerers. It's flavorful but not much else.

So... Someone can spend 15 levels in sorcerer, give up 4 feats over the course of 17 levels, or dip one level at any time for a better version? Suddenly that bloodline power isn't looking so great.

[Red Fel]

So... Someone can spend 15 levels in sorcerer, give up 4 feats over the course of 17 levels, or dip one level at any time for a better version? Suddenly that bloodline power isn't looking so great.

That's the thing about a lot of the high-end Bloodline abilities. Some of them are pretty darn unique, but for the most part they simply duplicate something the rest of the party has been able to do for awhile. (Gaining a flight speed isn't uncommon, for example.) If you were optimizing towards that particular ability, you probably wouldn't use Sorcerer levels (unless you were planning to roll a Sorcerer to begin with) or Eldritch Heritage.

It's basically more of a bonus treat for the Sorcerer who makes it that far.

[Da'Shain]

So... Someone can spend 15 levels in sorcerer, give up 4 feats over the course of 17 levels, or dip one level at any time for a better version? Suddenly that bloodline power isn't looking so great.Well, not every table allows Psionics/3rd party material, even from Dreamscarred Press. I'm not aware of any other ways in Paizo material to get this ability (stuff like Spider Climb doesn't reorient your gravity and requires hands for climbing). Also, the feats required to get into Elocater are not great -- if you're looking to optimize, Elocater probably isn't for you either. It's just earlier than this Sorcerer thingie.

[5w337x7007h]

Technically speaking, you can climb horizontal surfaces, it just takes a lot more effort compared to vertical surfaces. The difference is that gravity is pulling you away from the surface as opposed to pulling you down alongside the surface.

[Spore]

That's the thing about a lot of the high-end Bloodline abilities. Some of them are pretty darn unique, but for the most part they simply duplicate something the rest of the party has been able to do for awhile. (Gaining a flight speed isn't uncommon, for example.) If you were optimizing towards that particular ability, you probably wouldn't use Sorcerer levels (unless you were planning to roll a Sorcerer to begin with) or Eldritch Heritage.

It's basically more of a bonus treat for the Sorcerer who makes it that far.

A flight speed from wings still is immune to Dispel Magic and saves you a fairly high spell slot and spell known. This ability .... just isn't good. Now if you could provide this ability for the whole party it's a whole another thing. It would fit fluffwise too: "You think you know where the ground is? Can't it also be on ... THIS side of the room?"