A deadly marsh and a hard boss fight - please help me

[Rui]

Hello playground!

I am currently the DM of 3 guys in the 5th level (a warlock, a melee fighter that is a ranger/fighter/barbarian and a summoner that was house ruled from PF) and soon enough they will be marching to a deadly marsh that is controlled by demons, undeads and a black dragon that will also be their boss fight. Problem is, I'm very new to the 3.5 system (but not D&D or roleplaying games, I play 4e) but the group likes 3.5 and I like to DM so I'm trying to do my best. We are not using the basic XP method as they seem to like that I just level them up when it suits us. They are in a city right now, and will level up to 6 before heading to the marsh. When they will fight the black dragon, they will be level 11 (because the CR for an adult dragon is 11 if I'm not mistaken). The backstory, in short, is that the dragon made a deal with Dagon to gain demonic powers from him. In turn, he must kill the group as they are the rivals of Dagon because of their last adventurer.

In the marsh, they are supposed to fight with demons, undeads that are ghosts and shades of the past warriors that lived there and maybe a wyvern.

The group doesn't use the treasure system, as I just give them what seems cool (they will get a ship for killing the dragon :smallsmile:). If that matters, they have an armor that gives them +5 to hide if they are in shadows (it is an almost-insensibility if the enemy is unaware that they are there. the +5 comes only if the enemy rolls a spot/listen check) and I gave each of them a bonus ability score point in our last session because it's a cool reward.

So I have 2 questions:

1. Are there any good demons/undeads/flying awesome animals that will give us a fun battle? (The warlock is not optimized, but the summoner and the melee fighter are quite strong). If the monster is simple, it's a bonus, but we use the SRD and such things for rules and spells.

2. I understand that dragons are really strong, but is there a way that the fight can be cool? I had in mind that he will ambush them in the water, crashing trees on them and splashing them his corrupted water (he lands in the water, the water dampened them and he blasts them with acid). I also thought that it will be cool if he had some demonic powers or something like that, but I have no idea how to make something like that.

I'm really afraid of a TPK, as all of our last battles were nearly-TPK and I want the fights (and the boss fight) to be cool and balanced.

I will be grateful for any help you guys can offer.
Thanks ahead,
Rui.

P.S
Sorry if I have any English mistakes, English is not my native language.

[Drackstin]

Hello playground!

I am currently the DM of 3 guys in the 5th level (a warlock, a melee fighter that is a ranger/fighter/barbarian and a summoner that was house ruled from PF) and soon enough they will be marching to a deadly marsh that is controlled by demons, undeads and a black dragon that will also be their boss fight. Problem is, I'm very new to the 3.5 system (but not D&D or roleplaying games, I play 4e) but the group likes 3.5 and I like to DM so I'm trying to do my best. We are not using the basic XP method as they seem to like that I just level them up when it suits us. They are in a city right now, and will level up to 6 before heading to the marsh. When they will fight the black dragon, they will be level 11 (because the CR for an adult dragon is 11 if I'm not mistaken). The backstory, in short, is that the dragon made a deal with Dagon to gain demonic powers from him. In turn, he must kill the group as they are the rivals of Dagon because of their last adventurer.

In the marsh, they are supposed to fight with demons, undeads that are ghosts and shades of the past warriors that lived there and maybe a wyvern.

The group doesn't use the treasure system, as I just give them what seems cool (they will get a ship for killing the dragon :smallsmile:). If that matters, they have an armor that gives them +5 to hide if they are in shadows (it is an almost-insensibility if the enemy is unaware that they are there. the +5 comes only if the enemy rolls a spot/listen check) and I gave each of them a bonus ability score point in our last session because it's a cool reward.

So I have 2 questions:

1. Are there any good demons/undeads/flying awesome animals that will give us a fun battle? (The warlock is not optimized, but the summoner and the melee fighter are quite strong). If the monster is simple, it's a bonus, but we use the SRD and such things for rules and spells.

2. I understand that dragons are really strong, but is there a way that the fight can be cool? I had in mind that he will ambush them in the water, crashing trees on them and splashing them his corrupted water (he lands in the water, the water dampened them and he blasts them with acid). I also thought that it will be cool if he had some demonic powers or something like that, but I have no idea how to make something like that.

I'm really afraid of a TPK, as all of our last battles were nearly-TPK and I want the fights (and the boss fight) to be cool and balanced.

I will be grateful for any help you guys can offer.
Thanks ahead,
Rui.

P.S
Sorry if I have any English mistakes, English is not my native language.

you might want to add a fiendish template to the dragon to make him more demon like, or maybe the corrupted template. as demons, this might help.

CR 1: mane
CR 2: abyssal maw, abyssal skulker, dretch, nashrou, quasit
CR 3: abyssal ravager, maurezhi (5–6 HD), rutterkin
CR 4: abyssal eviscerator, ekolid, guecubu, maurezhi (7–8 HD), skulvyn
CR 5: bar-lgura, jovoc, maurezhi (9–10 HD), juvenile nabassu, skurchur, water demon
CR 6: artaaglith, babau, broodswarm, maurezhi (11–12 HD), uridezu
CR 7: armanite, arrow demon, succubus, maurezhi (13–14 HD), zovvut
CR 8: dybbuk, palrethee, maurezhi (15–16 HD), shadow demon, yochlol
CR 9: abyssal drake, bulezau, vrock, maurezhi (17–18 HD)
CR 10: alkilith, bebilith, cerebrilith, chasme, maurezhi (19–20 HD)
CR 11: hezrou, retriever, wastrilith

if you look in the book ghostwalk there is a ghost template you can add to things to make them ghost, so you can make a bunch of fighters or whatever to be spirits in the marsh. hope this helps.

[Tragak]

2. I understand that dragons are really strong, but is there a way that the fight can be cool? I had in mind that he will ambush them in the water, crashing trees on them and splashing them his corrupted water (he lands in the water, the water dampened them and he blasts them with acid). I also thought that it will be cool if he had some demonic powers or something like that, but I have no idea how to make something like that.

I'm really afraid of a TPK, as all of our last battles were nearly-TPK and I want the fights (and the boss fight) to be cool and balanced. Maybe you could mix up what the fight is about? Instead of PCs dealing X amount of damage to NPCs (killing them) before NPCs are able to deal Y amount of damage to PCs (killing them)" maybe the PCs or NPCs are trying to do something specific?

Remember when Luke Skywalker needed to navigate the Death Star trench to deliver a precision strike, Darth Vader was trying to shoot him down, but Luke couldn't afford to turn around and fight back? Maybe you could reverse that and have your NPCs be so close to making something important happen that they can't afford to fight the PCs directly.

[Ferronach]

Unless I am mistaken, most dragons have blindsense which will essentially render the armour useless for the purpose of hiding/sneaking.

The Dragon would likely burst out of the swamp and use the element of surprise to kill the party. If things start to go bad, the dragon should try to fly away and hide in a different bog/swamp.
Dragons are tough foe because they can fly and while totaly fpossible, it is unlikely that all three party members can fly too...

I would suggest letting the party gather a small group of clerics/paladins who follow them and heal them throughout the battle and help beat the dragon down. Have the "extras" be ~1/2 the level of the party members and only allow them to choose from a few actions (otherwise the game tends to drag).

[Rui]

Thanks a lot for the help! :)

I will try your suggestions, thanks again :)

[PraxisVetli]

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