Encounter Construction Help

[torrasque666]

Alright, so long story short, I have found myself in a position where my group is having trouble having...challenging encounters. As in, nothing really "level appropriate" challenges them so far. We right now have a Dread Vampire Sorcerer(Pathfinder backport, worst decision we made so far probably. Kind of ridiculous on a player for the abilities it gives. Player also keeps assuming that a lot of things in regards to magic are the same in 3.5 from Pathfinder.) some sort of Favored Soul will be coming in(We applied some changes to make it more of a Divine Sorcerer, namely giving it a single domain and its spells are known automatically, same with the cure/inflict line and CHA DCs. In exchange it uses sorcerer spells known) we have a beguiler/sand shaper/divine oracle/rainbow servant(who kept complaining about how his character would lose usefulness at about mid levels, we probably should have warned him that we don't really play much of a 'social' game, kinda combat focused), a Wizard/War Weaver(who I have yet to really see in combat yet. Mostly he just buffs us with G.Invis[something that I personally don't like as I feel it removes the challenge, I almost always reject it.]) and a Nature Bard/Beast Heart Adept(Who we gave Handle Animal and replaced the Summon Monster N line with Summon Nature's Ally N line) going for more of a Beastmaster archetype.

So...... I need help with ways to challenge them. Ideas for monsters as well as enemies with class levels are both fine. I was thinking probably a single DMM Persisted Cleric with a Selective Spell AMF could probably take out the entire squad. And considering how much my DM loves Hellsing Abridged, we could probably even use it as Alexander Anderson.

Alternatively, several beholders(or a beholder and several beholderkin) are an option. We explored it once, but only with a single beholder. Or Warforged Juggernauts/Undead to counteract the Vamp's Dominate.

[atemu1234]

The more players you've got, the more likely it is they can handle at and mildly above CR-ed encounters.

[Curbstomp]

Pyroclastic Dragon of an appropriate age.:smallwink: Those are essentially Fort save or die without that who "death effect" immunity issue. It should scare them pretty good if you have it off some NPC's with its breath attack right in front of them. Instant-dust-piles.

A Titan or two

A few hundred low-level horse-archers. Your players will run out of spells eventually.

Try a 2-3 of the sample NPC's from DMGII as a tag-team vs. the PC's

[Harlot]

Instead of looking at monsters as such, look into action economy - number of actions available on both sides.
If your party has a total number of possible attacks (say, two attacks each) thats = 8 attacks pr. round. Having one monster with two attacks, still leaves the monster lagging 6 actions behind. Every round. So the group will smash him fast.
Having a monster and 3-4 minions with one attack each doesn't outbalance the group but certainly levels the odds.

Instead of having them face one awesome caster, have them face 4 minor casters etc.

Also remember that an 'average' encounter actually only repletes 25% af the party resources. If you want a real challenge (A 50/50 chance encounter) that is acually FOUR levels higher than the group ECL! So for a 6th level party that is one CR10 monster.

The problem is that the game design is for the parties to WIN, survive, move on, not die in every session, and so the whole game structure is vastly in favor of the PC's.

[torrasque666]

Oh I understand the whole idea is to not kill the PCs. But considering that they made our DM breakdown a little with how easily they blew through level appropriate encounters.....

[Drackstin]

Oh I understand the whole idea is to not kill the PCs. But considering that they made our DM breakdown a little with how easily they blew through level appropriate encounters.....

i have a DM like that, he is a bad DM, he gets upset that my level 6 warforged can deal over 60 dmg on normal attack and all he dose is throw dragons at us, i have killed so many im called the dragon slayer on the plane now, and the DM doesn't know how to use dragons ether lol. most of the time i hold back to make him feel good. if i use all my abilities i could do over 250 just with a charge. one time he tryed to kill me by making an item i found intelligent and making the ego DC a 40 so it made me unable to do anything, my party killed the dragon in 6 turns. i broke the item.

[waccio]

Instead of looking at monsters as such, look into action economy - number of actions available on both sides.
If your party has a total number of possible attacks (say, two attacks each) thats = 8 attacks pr. round. Having one monster with two attacks, still leaves the monster lagging 6 actions behind. Every round. So the group will smash him fast.
Having a monster and 3-4 minions with one attack each doesn't outbalance the group but certainly levels the odds.

Instead of having them face one awesome caster, have them face 4 minor casters etc.



Thats is a fine solution,more creatures but less powerful. Add some organization to couter the party strenght and voilá! some nice encounter.

[Harlot]

uh,uh can I be the one to link to this (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/)

And also, you really must read this (it's based on Pathfinder, so the numbers don't add up to 3.5, BUT you'll get the general ideas

GM’s Guide to Creating Challenging Encounters (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nx-o8VAjhUwh3nnfzDQT-JA5eFLnN_BZJiBitGjBMDg/edit)