Martial Scripts.

[Yael]

So, Martial Scripts from the ToB... I like them, but I just feel that Adaptive Style is pretty much better. Are Scripts useful anyway? On which maneuvers? I thought of having a scrip of elemental damage (such as Desert Wind maneuvers, or the Artic Gale variant of the same discipline) for obstacles during dungeoncrawling, but I really can't tell.

I see them just as scrolls, but with a more limited list and combat oriented all the time ('xcept for shadow jaunt, jummy!)

Thoughts?

[Shinken]

Martial scrips barely make any sense and should be drowned in some underwater fire.

[Yael]

Martial scrips barely make any sense and should be drowned in some underwater fire.

LMAO.

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/206/5/e/fire_underwater_by_shadowmistx92-d58j5nb.png

[Troacctid]

Unlike scrolls, reading a martial script does not activate the maneuver. It takes a standard action just to read the script--you still need to use a separate action to initiate it. Most strikes are not so good when they take two turns to use. You can read the script up to an hour in advance, of course, but then if you don't end up needing it in that hour, it's wasted.

They can be used for stances, though. 50 gp for an hour's worth of Martial Spirit isn't too bad as a source of healing.

[Segev]

Think of them like 1-hour buffs with an expendable effect. If you would take time to put a buff up before a fight, you can take an extra round to put up a Martial Script before a fight. Make sure it's a maneuver you know you'll want to use in said fight.

They're only good if you have prep time, though. If you're never the instigator of a fight, it's not going to be useful.

[Starmage21]

If you're a warblade, and you want some healing, having a few martial scripts for some of the Devoted Spirit maneuvers is awesome. ...Especially that 9th level one which is "hit someone, and cast a Heal spell on someone nearby"

[Shining Wrath]

I've never used them because I don't like the flavor.

[Segev]

I've never used them because I don't like the flavor.

You're supposed to read them, not eat them! ^_~

[Dusk Eclipse]

You're supposed to read them, not eat them! ^_~
:rimshot: (http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot)

On topic I think they would have made much more sense if this wasn't cut down from the final book
http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/tob_gallery/99719.jpg

[malonkey1]

Yeah, martial scripts are so dumb! I mean, you don't see stupid stuff like that in fi-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jCDKRlOd7m8/R5P4xdaVcXI/AAAAAAAAAHg/gOxi8Hle84c/s1600/Avatar-_The_Last_Airbender_-_109_-_The_Waterbending_Scroll.jpg

Uhm...Well, this is awkward. Okay, fine. It's not like you can find anything like it in real li-

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-72482/sochin.jpg

Well, I uh, retract my complaint.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If the scripts permanently taught you the maneuver then they would have worked like those scrolls, the problem is that they are one-use type of items.

[malonkey1]

If the scripts permanently taught you the maneuver then they would have worked like those scrolls, the problem is that they are one-use type of items.

This. This is my main gripe with them. I feel like you should be able to glance at them and then use them in a full-round action, but learning requires a day of study.

[Shinken]

This. This is my main gripe with them. I feel like you should be able to glance at them and then use them in a full-round action, but learning requires a day of study.

I wonder why you felt the need to be needlessly blunt and antagonistic towards people who had the same complaints, then.

[malonkey1]

I was attempting to be humorous, but it appears it fell flat.

[Shinken]

I was attempting to be humorous, but it appears it fell flat.

I think I left my sense of humor at home. My apologies.

[Metahuman1]

One of the house rules I strongly recommend for games that use Tome of Battle is letting initiators learn maneuvers from scripts to schools that are native to there class and they have a suitable initiator level in that class to learn.

Seriously, it's not even enough to bump them up a tier, so why shouldn't you? Hell, it even fits a lot of Wuxia lore to do so.

[Shinken]

On of the house rules I strongly recommend for games that use Tome of Battle is letting initiators learn maneuvers from scripts to schools that are native to there class and they have a suitable initiator level in that class to learn.

Seriously, it's not even enough to bump them up a tier, so why shouldn't you? Hell, it even fits a lot of Wuxia lore to do so.

This is a specially good way to introduce new maneuvers in established disciplines and/or new disciplines.
Hell, that's the plot of Street Fighter: Assassin's Fist, isn't it? :smallamused:

[malonkey1]

This is a specially good way to introduce new maneuvers in established disciplines and/or new disciplines.
Hell, that's the plot of Street Fighter: Assassin's Fist, isn't it? :smallamused:

I ignored every Street Fighter adaptation that didn't involve Raul Julia.

The day he graced my TV screen was the greatest moment in my life, but for him, it was Tuesday.

[Metahuman1]

This is a specially good way to introduce new maneuvers in established disciplines and/or new disciplines.
Hell, that's the plot of Street Fighter: Assassin's Fist, isn't it? :smallamused:
{Scrubbed}

Come to think of it when I suggested just flat making that a rule for Path of War, weren't you the guy who Animatedly shot the idea down?

[Shinken]

I ignored every Street Fighter adaptation that didn't involve Raul Julia.

The day he graced my TV screen was the greatest moment in my life, but for him, it was Tuesday.

:smallbiggrin:
(see, I can grasp some humor)


Not familiar with that Piece of Street Fighter Franchise, so not sure if that's a legitimate point in favor, or trolling.

Come to think of it when I suggested just flat making that a rule for Path of War, weren't you the guy who Animatedly shot the idea down?
I don't remember that. Then again, PoW maneuvers are a lot more powerful than ToB maneuvers, so I'm not sure if I would want something like that in the book. Or rather, I know I'd want the maneuvers to be less powerful so you could actually do this.

Assassin Fist is a incredibly good show. I recommend it.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I think there's a legitimate point there, but from time to time Playgrounders seem to do things with tongue planted firmly in cheek.


Come to think of it when I suggested just flat making that a rule for Path of War, weren't you the guy who Animatedly shot the idea down?

I can't really say one way or another as to if Shinken did shoot down that idea or not, but I can at least see there being a complaint to the idea itself as you do approach the problem of just paying to know all the maneuvers that matter. It could also step on the toes of the Swordsage with their high base maneuvers known and utterly terrible recovery mechanic.


As for the Scripts themselves, I'm more annoyed by the fire-and-destroyed aspect they share with scrolls as others have mentioned. The whole "reading them allowed" thing bugs me, too, as I find that doesn't make terribly much sense when the maneuvers themselves don't require you to scream their names. I'm not sure if the Script Fighter would have been able to save them beyond the current mechanics, but I doubt it would have made them any worse than they are now.

Another option would be to have them work like either a Staff or a Wand, in that they either take the place of a currently prepared maneuver or have multiple uses before carrying them around makes them illegible rather than having them go "poof" after you read them.

[Yael]

If that's so, then homebrewing the following wouldn't be too strong, then?

"A crusader or a swordsage may learn a maneuver or stance from a Martial Script by studying it for a whole day (24 hours), by practicing the script and unlocking its secrets. After it was studied, the initiator must make a Martial Lore check (DC = 15+Initiator Level in the script) to learn it permanently."

Or better, I see it nice, because there's no gp investure, or a spellbook to record them.

[Dusk Eclipse]

This is just baseless speculations on my part, but I think the idea behind the Martial scripts and their interaction with the Script Fighter was that by itself the Script fighter would work as a normal construct while in battle (perhaps with a special ability giving him full BAB instead of the normal 3/4 BAB construct gets), but if it was... loaded (for lack of a better word) with martial scripts it would be able to use the maneuvers in combat. Fluff-wise I imagined they were constructed on Reshar's order to teach the sublime way to new recruits/adepts in the nine swords temple.

[Shinken]

I think the best way to model actual martial arts scrolls would be more along the lines of Sparring Dummy of the Master than ToB martial scripts.
EDIT: Which basically means they need to be a lot more expensive and re-usable.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Why not combine them? The script fighter working as a Sparring Dummy of the master, but instead of simply "training" with it you actually have to fight and defeat it in order to get the benefit. The martial scripts are just the "ammo".

[Shinken]

Why not combine them? The script fighter working as a Sparring Dummy of the master, but instead of simply "training" with it you actually have to fight and defeat it in order to get the benefit. The martial scripts are just the "ammo".

That sounds like an excellent idea.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

This is just baseless speculations on my part, but I think the idea behind the Martial scripts and their interaction with the Script Fighter was that by itself the Script fighter would work as a normal construct while in battle (perhaps with a special ability giving him full BAB instead of the normal 3/4 BAB construct gets), but if it was... loaded (for lack of a better word) with martial scripts it would be able to use the maneuvers in combat. Fluff-wise I imagined they were constructed on Reshar's order to teach the sublime way to new recruits/adepts in the nine swords temple.

That would be my guess as well. Depending on the source, it's reminiscent of the old Jewish golem fables where you would give commands to the golem by writing whatever it was the golem was to do on a special piece of paying before putting it into the golem's mouth.


I think the best way to model actual martial arts scrolls would be more along the lines of Sparring Dummy of the Master than ToB martial scripts.
EDIT: Which basically means they need to be a lot more expensive and re-usable.

I still like the staff idea in that they don't permanently increase maneuvers known but still take up one of your current readied slots. In most cases, it's almost like knowing the actual maneuver. I don't think they warrant the extravagant cost of the Sparring Dummy of the Master, even if it means having a one-"spell" staff at the same cost as a scroll.


I'm almost a little surprised that more homebrew work hasn't been done here before, but this may just be because I haven't been involved in the Path of War.


EDIT:


Why not combine them? The script fighter working as a Sparring Dummy of the master, but instead of simply "training" with it you actually have to fight and defeat it in order to get the benefit. The martial scripts are just the "ammo".

I'd still like to have the script fighter up as an actual monster, but it doesn't necessarily need to be "either/or" in this case!

[Metahuman1]

I don't remember that. Then again, PoW maneuvers are a lot more powerful than ToB maneuvers, so I'm not sure if I would want something like that in the book. Or rather, I know I'd want the maneuvers to be less powerful so you could actually do this.

Assassin Fist is a incredibly good show. I recommend it.

Yeah, the more I think on it the more I could swear that was you, insisting it would be "Broken" and then it got ruled in your favor and it was about the third or so thin to get such, and I just sorta dropped the thread after that for the most part and put Pathfinder second form the bottom of my list of things to replace 3.5e with.

[Shinken]

I don't think any of this is ever gonna happen in PoW, though. Looks like they are opposed to martial monsters and magical items.


Yeah, the more I think on it the more I could swear that was you, insisting it would be "Broken" and then it got ruled in your favor and it was about the third or so thin to get such, and I just sorta dropped the thread after that for the most part and put Pathfinder second form the bottom of my list of things to replace 3.5e with.
I couldn't even find any posts of mine in that thread, so I guess you're wrong.

[Metahuman1]

Would have been in the first thread. You were like, pixie/halfling/dwarf in the playground at the time.

[Shinken]

Would have been in the first thread. You were like, pixie/halfling/dwarf in the playground at the time.

I searched the first thread before saying that. Looks like you were discussing with Fax Celestis. Maybe you mixed it up?

EDIT: Advanced search says I never posted in the original PoW thread. Now that I think about it, I don't see why that would be important, anyway

[Metahuman1]

Upon Examination, the martial scrips thing didn't involve you Shinken, and neither did the actual rather frustrating dispute that prompted me to knock Path of War and a switch to pathfinder in general down to the bottom of my options list. For that, I apologize.