1 level dips for Turn/Rebuke Undead

[Chaosvii7]

There doesn't seem to be a master list, and that upsets me greatly.

I'll keep it short: Evil campaign. Making a summon spam Archivist. Can't take Sacred Exorcist.

I guess the 1-level Cleric dip is technically superior in that I can pick a gaggle of devotion feats along with it. But I'm still curious as to what my other options are.

So any help anybody is willing to give would be great.

[Rebel7284]

Dread Necromancer dip has some uses. There is also Death Delver.

[dextercorvia]

Lists of Stuff (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=pv446jo7n5afc1flicd5tnpu34&topic=1412.0)

[Inevitability]

Dread necromancer + Precocious Apprentice into Mystic Theurge? If you don't care about Dark Knowledge, it can give you some nice stuff while taking almost nothing.

[ShurikVch]

Death Delver 1, ecl 6, Heroes of Horror

[atemu1234]

Death Master from Dragon Compendium.

[Silva Stormrage]

Isn't there a feat (I think planar touchstone?) that grants a cleric's domain special ability? If so the Sun Domain (From Dragonlance) gives turn undead so you can get it with a feat if need be.

Or you could be a neutral cleric with that domain and get Rebuke + Turn undead for 1 class level dip.

[Darrin]

Soldier of Light 1 (Deities & Demigods).

Magical Training + Necromantic Bloodline + Kin Mastery = TU 1/day.

[dextercorvia]

Isn't there a feat (I think planar touchstone?) that grants a cleric's domain special ability? If so the Sun Domain (From Dragonlance) gives turn undead so you can get it with a feat if need be.

Or you could be a neutral cleric with that domain and get Rebuke + Turn undead for 1 class level dip.

The problem is that is a Mystic only Domain, and the feat and cleric class can only pick cleric domains.

[Silva Stormrage]

The problem is that is a Mystic only Domain, and the feat and cleric class can only pick cleric domains.

Ah whoops, that shows my lack of dragon lance experience :smalltongue:

[atemu1234]

The problem is that is a Mystic only Domain, and the feat and cleric class can only pick cleric domains.

Sun is a domain in normal D&D, not just for mystics.

I could've sworn it is, at any rate.

[Darrin]

Sun is a domain in normal D&D, not just for mystics.

I could've sworn it is, at any rate.

It is. But in the Dragonlance pantheon, there is no deity with the Sun domain, and clerics in Krynn aren't allowed to worship an ideal. The only way to get the Sun domain in Krynn is to pick it as a Mystic, but since they don't have Turn Undead to begin with, giving them the PHB Sun domain would be pointless. Thus, Sun domain in Krynn gives Mystics TU as a cleric.

Whether you can grab the Krynn version via Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightment is kinda dubious, even if the Dragonlance version supercedes the PHB version by publishing date. But if you were ever going to find an alternate version of the Sun domain from an alternate Prime Material that hardly anyone has ever heard of before, the Catalogues of Enlightenment would be a good place to find it.

[atemu1234]

It is. But in the Dragonlance pantheon, there is no deity with the Sun domain, and clerics in Krynn aren't allowed to worship an ideal. The only way to get the Sun domain in Krynn is to pick it as a Mystic, but since they don't have Turn Undead to begin with, giving them the PHB Sun domain would be pointless. Thus, Sun domain in Krynn gives Mystics TU as a cleric.

Whether you can grab the Krynn version via Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightment is kinda dubious, even if the Dragonlance version supercedes the PHB version by publishing date. But if you were ever going to find an alternate version of the Sun domain from an alternate Prime Material that hardly anyone has ever heard of before, the Catalogues of Enlightenment would be a good place to find it.

I don't know if this is just a Dragonlance thread.

[dextercorvia]

I don't know if this is just a Dragonlance thread.

The regular sun domain does not grant turn undead. The DLCS's Mystic (not cleric) Sun domain does. Catalogs of Enlightenment lets you choose one cleric domain power.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dip Cloistered Cleric and take Rebuke Dragons from Dragon Magic, which can still be used to power divine feats. Get Knowledge Devotion, Planning, and Undeath for your domains.
Dip Dread Necromancer for Rebuke Undead.

You could put Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) on a bunch of Bone Talisman (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (turning) spell foci, which would basically increase its duration on them to 3650 minutes/level, or double that (Lesser Rod of) Extended. However, these may not be able to power divine feats that require more than one turn/rebuke undead use, due to CD p77: "...you may activate only one divine feat (or use the ability to turn or rebuke undead once) per round..." If you activate a Bone Talisman, you cannot also activate Rebuke Undead or Rebuke Dragons in that same round, nor can you mix daily uses of different abilities to power a single divine feat.

[Theomniadept]

If you take Vow of Poverty and just break it you can take one level of Apostle of Peace to get Turn Undead. Take a ToB class and then you can jump almost instantly into Ruby Knight Vindicator and have accelerated spellcasting.

[glitterbaby]

One level of Binder with the feat Improved Binding gets you Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts that refresh every 5 rounds, untyped +2 bonus to charisma, one 1st level wizard spell as a SLA at-will every 5 rounds, the ability to use spell-trigger items as a wizard of your effective Binder level, and the ability to identify magic items with spellcraft. The extra feat is a bit heavier than you're probably looking for but I would say that it's worth it.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The Shroudcrown (PGtF, 113600gp) lets you turn undead as a 10th level cleric, among other things. Expensive, so you'll have to wait a bit to afford it, but on the other hand it doesn't cost you a level or feat.

[glitterbaby]

But yeah for an evil summoner I'd suggest Binder 1/Archivist 3 into Anima Mage and then wherever you'd like to take it from there. Tenebrous Apostate only loses one level of casting and gives turn attempts, Apostle of the Green Lady has 5/5 casting with turn attempts. You'd have refreshing turn attempts either way which really lets you go wild with DMM. Out of combat its effectively unlimited so grab the Retrieve Spell and get back all the spells you use each encounter. Persist some aoe buffs just because, elation and mass lesser vigor are pretty nice ones. For the actual summoning grab Greenbound Summoning and a Ring of the Beast out of Complete Champion (p 141). When you cast Summon Nature's Ally X you are allowed to actually cast SNA X+1 so long as X+1 isn't higher than your highest level SNA you can cast. Even on your highest SNA you would still be able to do three of your best summons instead of 1. DMM Twin/Repeat that too, I know we're getting into a lot of feats now. I haven't actually looked at what twin/repeat would do to a summoning spell but I can just picture you at the end of your turn with 12 stupid-strong plant-bears per round. You don't even have to worry about blowing everything you have on one encounter because you can just take like 10 minutes and get all your spells back, which by the way could be coming from pretty much any spell list because you're an Archivist :)

[Thanatosia]

Binder 1/Archivist 3 into Anima Mage
Anima Mage requires and advances Arcane Spellcasting, Archivist is Divine.

One level of Binder with the feat Improved Binding gets you Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts that refresh every 5 rounds
How does this work? I'm assuming you're talking about Binding Tenebrous, but he's a 4th lv Vestige, which requires 7 levels of Binder. Improved Binding Feat only lets you reduce this by 2, so you'd still need 5 levels of binder to bind Tenebrous. 1 level of binder with improved binding only lets you bind 2nd level vestiges, and I don't think any of them grant Turn/Rebuke every 5 turns.

Out of combat its effectively unlimited so grab the Retrieve Spell and get back all the spells you use each encounter
Retrieve spell requires 1+spell level turn/rebuke usages to retrieve a spell, used in a standard action. Using Tenebrous only gives you 1 turn/rebuke every 5 rounds, so you could only use Tenebrous to retrieve Orisons (lv0 spells), retrieving anything more would require dipping into other turn/rebuke sources that do not recharge. You can't just stockpile turn/rebukes from Tenebrous over multiple rounds to feed into Retrieve spell or DMM - Tenebrous may give you effectively unlimited T/Rs out of combat, but you can still only use them 1 at a time.

[glitterbaby]

Anima Mage requires and advances Arcane Spellcasting, Archivist is Divine.

I believe there is a divine adaptation for Anima Mage, sorry my DMs have always allowed it so I just didn't think about it.


How does this work? I'm assuming you're talking about Binding Tenebrous, but he's a 4th lv Vestige, which requires 7 levels of Binder. Improved Binding Feat only lets you reduce this by 2, so you'd still need 5 levels of binder to bind Tenebrous. 1 level of binder with improved binding only lets you bind 2nd level vestiges, and I don't think any of them grant Turn/Rebuke every 5 turns.


I read "can turn or rebuke undead as a cleric of your effective binder level," to be essentially the entire class feature. If that is the case then you would have 3+ cha mod turn attempts, not one.



Retrieve spell requires 1+spell level turn/rebuke usages to retrieve a spell, used in a standard action. Using Tenebrous only gives you 1 turn/rebuke every 5 rounds, so you could only use Tenebrous to retrieve Orisons (lv0 spells), retrieving anything more would require dipping into other turn/rebuke sources that do not recharge. You can't just stockpile turn/rebukes from Tenebrous over multiple rounds to feed into Retrieve spell or DMM - Tenebrous may give you effectively unlimited T/Rs out of combat, but you can still only use them 1 at a time.


This will depend on whether or not my interpretation of "can turn or rebuke undead as a cleric of your effective binder level," is valid.

[Sian]

Planar Touchstone (Catalogue of Enlightenment: [Undeath Domain]) (grants extra turning feat)

although its very much up in the air if you read Extra Turning to allow this giving you a flat 4 turns without having turn/rebuke allready (probably since it wasn't intended to be posible)

[Thanatosia]

I read "can turn or rebuke undead as a cleric of your effective binder level," to be essentially the entire class feature. If that is the case then you would have 3+ cha mod turn attempts, not one.
I can see this as a valid interpretation of the text, but under that interpretation, there is NOTHING in Teneberous's description to imply that your daily turn limit is refilled every 5 rounds. So if you make that argument, then you're left with 3+Cha turn attempts per day, but you can only use them once every 5 rounds unless you have turn undead from other sources, in which case you are still limited to 3+ cha turn attempts per day (unless you take extra turning feats), but you can only add your Binder levels to your other turn undead source levels once every 5 rounds.

[glitterbaby]

I can see this as a valid interpretation of the text, but under that interpretation, there is NOTHING in Teneberous's description to imply that your daily turn limit is refilled every 5 rounds. So if you make that argument, then you're left with 3+Cha turn attempts per day, but you can only use them once every 5 rounds unless you have turn undead from other sources, in which case you are still limited to 3+ cha turn attempts per day (unless you take extra turning feats), but you can only add your Binder levels to your other turn undead source levels once every 5 rounds.

I'm sorry, I saw that on the Binder handbook right beneath a quote by JaronK so didn't really question it. Now that I'm looking at everything I agree with you. Can any others help to shed some light on this? Is there anything printed anywhere that would refresh the turn attempts every 5 rounds?

[Thanatosia]

Wishful thinking and logic contortions is basically what it comes down to I"m pretty sure. '

And honestly, trying to get that much T/R every 5 rounds is just being greedy and even if there was some rational way to justify it by raw, it would just get books thrown at you. Stick with the interpretation that it just gives you a turn/rebuke every 5 rounds that has nothing to do with a daily limit, and it's still plenty useful - you can't fuel DMM entirely off it, but it's like a Incantrix/Arcane Thesis cost reducer, once every 5 rounds you get to reduce your Turn/Rebuke costs by 1, which is still very potent and valuable - just not totally game breaking and absurd.